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At This Hour

Gunman Coulibaly Was on U.S. Terror Database; U.S. Should Have Sent Higher Ranking Official to France; Boko Haram Straps Explosives to Child

Aired January 12, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Ahead @THIS HOUR, Paris uniting to confront radical Islam while French Jews fear a new wave of anti- Semitism brewing.

Three thousand miles away from Paris, another radical Islamist group launches its deadliest rampage yet in Nigeria, using a 10-year-old girl as a human bomb. A separate massacre kills thousands. A live report ahead.

And a breakthrough in the search for AirAsia Flight 8501, divers have recovered the flight data recorder and pinpointed the location of the cockpit voice recorder. Will the information inside those boxes hold any clues as to what caused that crash?

Good morning to you. I'm Michaela Pereira in New York.

JOHN BERMAN: And I'm John Berman, live in Paris. I'm standing just a block away from the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," that satiric magazine that was attacked now five days ago.

You can see this constant growing memorial behind me, the mourning here, nowhere near over yet, but we do begin with new developments on several fronts in the investigation here in Paris.

This morning the French government announced a dramatic boost in security. 10,000 troops, 8,000 police officers deployed to key sites across the country. More than 4,000 of the police officers are now going to protecting Jewish schools and synagogues. The defense minister calls this the first mobilization on this scale in the country's history.

While that's going on, investigators are on the hunt for anyone else who may have been involved in these attacks. Officials say Hayat Boumeddiene -- you're looking at a picture of her right there -- she was spotted near Turkey's border with Syria. She's the partner of the terrorist who killed four hostages at the kosher market during Friday's standoff.

And of course there's something of a diplomatic kerfuffle now, many people here and a lot of people in the United States asking why President Obama was a no-show, why no Vice President Biden, why no Michelle Obama, why no John Kerry here in Paris as more than 40 leaders from around the world joined the people here in this solidarity march just yesterday? We're going to cover all angles of this. I want to bring in my colleagues, Hala Gorani and Pamela Brown.

Pamela, I want to start with you in Washington, because we have some key, new information about the man who attacked that kosher supermarket, Amedy Coulibaly and what the United States knew about him before this attack.

Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We know that he had been in the U.S. government database for known or suspected international terrorists. And he had been in that database for a while. This is according to a senior U.S. law enforcement official we spoke with.

But the source did not know if the alleged accomplice was on that list, the woman who we believe went into Turkey and could be in Syria. The source says that it would be very difficult if not impossible to get to her at this point.

As you remember, initially it was believed she was there during the Paris attack and then sources told us over the weekend it's believed she actually went to Turkey apparently to go to Syria in the days before the Paris attacks.

Now, as for whether the suspects were directed or perhaps influenced by al Qaeda or ISIS, a source says that the U.S. government has not reached that determination yet, whether AQAP or ISIS played a role in actually deliberately directing them to carry out the attacks or whether they were just influenced.

And we know over the weekend, John, this video surfaced of one of the suspects, that third suspect, Coulibaly, actually pledging his allegiance to ISIS. The U.S. government now saying they have no reason to think that this video is not authentic.

BERMAN: And, Pamela, of course, there are key questions about whether anyone actually helped him make that video or helped to release itself it. That's leading many here to question whether there was an accomplice beyond Hayat Boumeddiene who, as you say, is in Syria right now.

Hala Gorani, I want to bring you in here right now, because there is an unprecedented boost in security. The defense ministry here says this country has never seen anything like it before.

Ten thousand troops, some 8,000 police officers, half of them deployed to Jewish sites around the country, is that because you suspect they have some specific threat or is this just to ease the concerns among the population here?

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think as far as specific threats, they have not made that information public. The investigation is ongoing.

We're also hear from the prime minister, Manuel Valls, who spoke to our Christiane Amanpour just minutes ago, saying that he did not believe that these attacks were the work of lone wolves, that there may have been an accomplice or accomplices helping the Amedy Coulibaly and the Kouachi brothers. Whether or not that was an operational link or whether it was something looser preceding the attacks, that's something still being determined by the investigation.

One of the other things we're learning as well from the prime minister is that the presumed girlfriend of Amedy Coulibaly, Hayat Boumeddiene, that also this is going to be determined as we go forward whether or not her role was operational, because we learned from the interior minister a few days ago that her cell phone communications link the Amedy Coulibaly part of this series of attacks to the Kouachi brothers. His girlfriend and the wife of Cherif Kouachi communicated.

Whether it was the men who used the cell phones of the girlfriends and wives or whether women themselves communicated, that too is going to be made clear as the investigation continues.

But we do have some information coming to CNN, John, from the lawyer of Cherif Kouachi's wife. Cherif Kouachi is of course the younger of the two Kouachi brothers, who authorities say was responsible for that massacre at "Charlie Hebdo," the lawyer of the wife saying she never imagined her husband could have been involved in such acts and she was deeply shocked and condemns the violent acts.

So the wife of one of the brothers is saying she had no idea what was going on and was shocked and saddened.

BERMAN: If she's telling the truth, one of the questions there then is how did this man keep it from his wife in addition to the authorities who had been tracking him up until a point until they decided he was not an imminent threat anymore.

Hala, I want to switch to diplomacy for a second here, because we heard a lot of people talking, perhaps more in the United States than here in Paris, about the American delegation that attended this rally, these rallies across the country here yesterday.

Some 3.7 million people took to the streets. Some 40 world leaders. But no top-level U.S. presence here -- no president, no vice president, no first lady, no former president.

You've been talking to people here in Paris. Do you get a sense that they were offended by this?

GORANI: We've also heard directly from the Elysees palace and I've been doing digging myself, and the Elysees palace has an official line, which is essentially, no hard feelings.

The president of the United States called President Hollande, the president of this country, the day the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre happened, so we're happy with that. He showed solidarity. He also visited the French embassy in Washington, D.C. He signed the book of condolences. We're happy with that. We didn't necessarily want or expect more. That's the official line. But of course eyebrows were raised, John, when that group of world leaders were walking arm in arm from the (inaudible) to the (inaudible) in that huge unity rally showing their solidarity with France.

Why did the U.S. not send a higher level representative? Not necessarily the president, Barack Obama, but perhaps the secretary of state, and we now know he'll visit Paris on Thursday.

So, yeah, there were some eyebrows raised, but I don't think really hard feelings, especially among ordinary French citizens.

BERMAN: No. Although there's a fair about the question it sends domestically in the United States about the important outreach around the world in the battle against terror.

Hala Gorani for us elsewhere in Paris, I really appreciate it.

We have some new photos just into CNN that I want you at that take a look at right now. These are pictures of hostages inside the kosher grocery store last week. They were hiding out -- look at this -- from gunman Amedy Coulibaly.

They were huddled together in a freezer beneath the main floor. Some of them apparently during this time -- you can see it right there -- trying to reach loved ones on their cell phones. We do know that some of them were able to get messages out.

A store employee named Lassana Bathily, he led them down to this walk- in freezer in the attack. The French president, Francoise Hollande, called this man Bathily "the hero of Vincennes" for keeping these people safe during the attack. Remarkable pictures.

Ahead for us @THIS HOUR, the state of terror is not just here in Paris but also in the United States, key new questions today about how safe Americans are.

And also this question, what do we know now about the battle against terror in the world that we didn't know before these attacks last week?

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, the pope condemns deviant forms of religion, decries the violent actions of Boko Haram, the radical Islamist group blamed for deaths of more than 2,000 over the weekend. A chilling report for you ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We are back in Paris where it's just about 5:15 in the evening. You can see all of the people just getting off work here, coming by the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," this memorial here. People want to pay their respects.

One of the key questions this morning about everything that's gone on here is what do we know today that we did not know before these attacks? U.S. officials say they are working under the assumption that one of the brothers, Said Kouachi, may have received orders from al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula, AQAP, may have received orders to carry out this mission.

The other suspected terrorists Amedy Coulibaly pledged allegiance to ISIS and its leader in a video being shared on jihadist websites.

So let's talk about this. Joining me is CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank and CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier.

Paul, I want to start with you because you really developed a lot of this reporting overnight about AQAP and the idea that the United States is now working under the assumption that they somehow directed this attack.

What exactly does that mean? These brothers as far as we know haven't been to Yemen in several years. So was this an attack ordered several years ago, or did they have contact with these brothers more recently?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: John, that's not clear at this point, but what we do understand is at least one of the brothers, perhaps both of the brothers, traveled to Yemen in 2011 and they received training with this group.

Now from what we know about this group, they're not going to let just anybody receive training with them. You would have to swear an oath of allegiance to the leader, Nasr al-Wuhayshi.

There's also a belief that one of the brothers likely met with Anwar al-Awlaki, the American terrorist cleric. Now al-Awlaki was desperate to find Western recruits back in the West, back in Europe. So that's a significant fact if it is indeed confirmed.

The other thing al-Awlaki was telling these recruits to do was to camouflage radicalism when they returned to Europe. And from what we know now about the Kouachi brothers, when they came back to Europe, that's exactly what they did in, because in September of 2014, the French security services lifted their surveillance on the brothers because they judged them to be no longer radical. Obviously they were still radical because they carried out this dreadful attack, John.

BERMAN: And Kimberly, there's an interesting dynamic right here because you have the Kouachi brothers who are either getting their orders from AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or at least pledged to support them, and meanwhile, you have Amedy Coulibaly, this man who is now on video saying he follows ISIS. You have these two separate organizations staging terror attacks, or at least in honor of them, in the same week. Does that mean there is closer coordination between these groups now, Kimberly?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they may not be coordinating. The attackers may not have gotten their orders directly from either group. But just the fact they are both pledging allegiance to the two groups, it shows you the evolution over the past three to five years of popularity from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and also al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan towards the Islamic group. Back when the brothers were seeking support, seeking to commit Jihad, they, at least one of them, went to Yemen and now that the Islamic State group is taking so much territory, it's got the lion share of the media coverage, you can see both man power and funding are heading in their direction. Part of this is due to the success of the CIA's drone campaign in the tribal areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

U.S. counterterrorism officials had tracked that those organizations were actually having trouble getting money, getting new recruits, and were having to rely on the Taliban for aid as all of the money was headed towards al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and now you see this new evolution to Syria. What it does mean, though, is that all of these groups are aiming for the same thing, to disrupt the West, to draw followers. Half of the al Qaeda offshoots have made messages or noises of support for ISIS, so I think you could see cooperation in the future.

BERMAN: Yeah, I think maybe the question isn't did or did they not coordinate? It's just as scary the fact that perhaps now people who would be prone to do terrorist attacks have a menu of options to choose from, different groups, who all want to achieve the same thing. Kimberly Dozier, Paul Cruickshank, I appreciate you being with me this morning. Michaela?

PEREIRA: Alright, John, we'll get back to Paris in a moment.

But ahead @THISHOUR, one black box recovered, another located from the AirAsia flight that crashed into the Java Sea. The question is whether those will hold the secret to what downed that airplane. Up next, though, Boko Haram slaughters more than 2,000 people in Nigeria and uses a 10-year-old girl as a human bomb. The latest on their horrific reign of terror.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Horrifying acts of violence and murder in Nigeria, further demonstrations of barbarism at the hands of terrorists. Boko Haram militants apparently strapping explosives to a child, a little girl, possibly as young as 10 years old, and then detonated those explosives in a busy market. Police say that at least 20 people were killed. An earlier attack by the militants left up to 2,000 people dead in a town in Nigeria's border with Chad.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson joins us now from Abuja, Nigeria's capital. Nic, it's almost hard to even talk about the details of this horrific attack. What do we know about the attackers?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They appear to be -- although they're not taking credit for it -- Boko Haram. They're believed to be behind both the attacks attaching explosives to that 10-year-old girl and this attack on the town of Baga. The depravity of it and the depths that they're sinking to, that wasn't the only young girl that they tied bombs to this weekend and then detonated those bombs in a busy market. They did it in another nearby town, putting explosives on another two girls, and blowing them up when they got near a security checkpoint.

More people, as well, of course, as those poor young girls, killed in that. But when Boko Haram decided to target this town of Baga, there were hundreds of them on trucks and in vans with heavy machine guns on the backs of vans, according to an eyewitness. And this eyewitness told us that the army fled in the face of Boko Haram, that he hid out in his garden behind trees between his neighbor's house and his house for three whole days watching them rampage through the town, killing people, setting fire to buildings, looting. And then when he finally ran away, he said that for a distance of about three miles, he was stepping over bodies, around bodies, and for him, this particular witness thought maybe as many as 3,000 people killed. 30,000 people in this town.

PEREIRA: Nic, this is such a horrifying thing to hear of these villagers in these small towns being slaughtered. What is being done to help these people? You talk about the army fleeing, are the military and security services there essentially helpless in the face of these attacks?

ROBERTSON: The short answer is yes and no. In the town of Baga, clearly Boko Haram decided to target the military, target the town, and then had decided to push the military out and they succeeded. In another town and in a neighboring state, that's also an area where Boko Haram has a high presence, on Thursday and Friday last week, they went in to the town there, they tried to attack that town. There the army were able to push them back and stabilize the situation a bit. But again, look at the incidents of these young girls being forced to go in and then being blown up in these nearby towns. The military is faced with something that it isn't able to defeat. I talked to an army spokesman today who said yes, they have a plan to go back to Baga, but he wouldn't say when, if it's days or weeks or how they would do it. He said, for security reasons, they wouldn't want to give that information away. But I think most people here believe that the army has failed and can't succeed here at the moment. Michaela?

PEREIRA: When we watch the death toll rise and jump thousands and thousands over a short period of time like this, there's some failure going on there somewhere. Nic Robertson, a horrifying story. Such chilling, chilling words that you told us. But thank you for shining a light on that darkness.

Alright, from here, I'm going to turn it back to Paris and John Berman who is on the ground. I see it starting to get dark there.

BERMAN: It's starting to get dark here. Ahead @THISHOUR, for us in Paris, Michaela, Jews in this city in this country on high alert. They had already been leaving France in much greater numbers than before, so what's going on here? Why the rise in anti-Semitic sentiments that seem to be spreading or have spread throughout the country?

And we know about terrorists, the people who pulled the trigger, the extremists, but do so-called moderate Muslims have a responsibility? What should they do now? That question, ahead @THISHOUR.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good morning, once again, from New York. I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman joins us live from Paris. And John, I wanted to talk to you a little about your experience arriving there in Paris early this morning Eastern time. You've been there for the first time seeing the memorial that is there. I'm curious what people are saying to you, what the tone is like. What is your experience?

BERMAN: You know, Michaela, it's really been remarkable.