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At This Hour
Kenya Targets Al Shabaab Camps; Obama Defends Tentative Iran Deal; Rare Glimpse Into Yemen Conflict; Interview with VA Attorney General on UVA Rape Case. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired April 06, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[11:00:17] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Kenya attacks -- the target, the terror group behind the deadly university attack. But officials there are still on the hunt for the mastermind behind the massacre.
Obama's hard sell. The president calls the framework deal with Iran a once in a lifetime opportunity. He's making his case for the nuclear deal, but is Congress listening? And can Iran be trusted?
A trip to paradise turns into an absolute nightmare. A Delaware family left fighting for their lives now, poisoned by a powerful pesticide. The EPA, the Justice Department, they're demanding answers.
Hey there, everybody. I'm Kate Bolduan. John Berman is off today. A lot to get to AT THIS HOUR including Kenya bombing al Shabaab camps in Somalia, its first major military action since last week's deadly terror attack on that Kenyan college campus.
The Kenyan government is now offering a $215,000 reward for the attack's mastermind, a man named Mohamed Mohamud, a senior leader of al Shabaab. The details coming out are really just horrific. Last week's massacre took the lives of almost 150 students as gunmen moved dorm to dorm, forcing them to lie down in rows and shooting them in the head. For the first time, CNN's Christian Purefoy is gaining access to the college campus where this massacre took place.
Christian's with us now. Christian, tell us more about what you're seeing.
CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the first time, Kate, that the media have been allowed into the campus since the attack. And a lot of the cleanup has been done, if you like, but there's still an enormous amount of destruction.
First of all, it has to be said that even when you're inside that building, the silence is very deceptive as to the horror that took place in there. You've got shattered glass. You've got craters from grenades and the splinters from the explosions, bullet holes in the walls. But it's the small things, Kate. It's the notice boards where people's names and meetings to be arranged for the next week that really are quite poignant as to the life that was there before and the brutal murder that took place afterwards. Kate?
BOLDUAN: Christian, were you able to speak to anyone on campus, what you're hearing from them? I can -- you truly -- I can't imagine what anyone on that campus is going through at this moment still probably dealing with the aftermath of losing 150 people.
PUREFOY: Well, we did actually speak to one of the commissioners in charge of the security and he was helping to coordinate the attack (sic) at the time. He talked about tanks coming in to try to dislodge the attackers, these terrorist, these four terrorists who had basically holed themselves up inside one of the main dormitories and set up sniper positions in some of the windows. He talked about how they had to go in quite quickly but the siege did last for 12 hours. One of the reasons, he said, is that they just don't want -- obviously they wanted to kill the terrorists but they don't want to kill civilians. They want to try to minimize that.
There has questions about how quickly the security forces of Kenya did respond to this. But the stuff that they used, the tanks and the forces, they went in there quite quickly, quite hard, to try and dislodge them as fast as possible, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Four gunmen and an attack that lasted 12 hours and now you note, as we're getting really the first look on the ground of the silence around you. Christian, so horrific. But thank you so much for bringing it to us.
We're also looking at this. President Obama, he is now kicking off his very hard sell on the tentative nuclear deal with Iran. The president spoke at length with "The New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman and defended the deal to critics at home and abroad, especially those in Israel. Listen.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I would say to Israeli people is, however, that there is no formula, that there's no option to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon that will be more effective than the diplomatic initiative and framework that we put forward. And that's demonstrable.
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BOLDUAN: This of course comes after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has come out very quickly to blast the deal, calling it historically bad right here on CNN this weekend. At the same time, members of Congress, they continue to push to have a say in any final agreement.
[11:05:00] Sunlen Serfaty is at the White House for us. Sunlen, you've been looking at all of what the president said in this lengthy interview and all of the reaction since. One thing that seemed clear after all of the talk this weekend is that the White House has a huge job in front of it now.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They absolutely do, Kate. They have a huge sales job to do. They know this. They know that it's a huge sales job here in America but also internationally as well.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu coming out strongly over the weekend in interviews and also revealing that he's talking to members of Congress directly. He revealed that he's spoken to two-thirds of members of Congress, trying to convince them that they should not accept framework of this deal.
Now, the White House has aggressively pushed back on that strategy and they have come out in this "The New York Times" interview where President Obama really defended the framework of this deal and really spoke directly to the Israeli people. He said that it would be a fundamental failure of his presidency if this deal makes Israel more vulnerable. Kate?
BOLDUAN: All right, and there's a few months to go and a lot of work to be done before that final deadline is upon us. Sunlen Serfaty at the White House for us, thank you so much.
Other big stories that are making news AT THIS HOUR. "Rolling Stone" magazine completely retracting its story of a gang rape at the University of Virginia. Columbia School of Journalism had been tasked with the review of this story after it really began to unravel. The review now accuses the magazine, as it was just released, of major failures at almost every level in covering that story, adding that it could all have been avoided had the reporter contacted more sources in her reporting. The author of the article has since apologized, but "Rolling Stone's" publisher has decided not to fire or really punish anyone, saying that he believes the mistakes were not intentional. Going to talk to Virginia's attorney general about all of this and the fallout and what it means for the state a little later in the show.
And poisoned in paradise. A criminal investigation is under way now as a Delaware family remains horribly sick from a vacation last month in the U.S. Virgin Islands. Authorities believe a pest control company sprayed a restricted chemical where the family was saying. Well, now, the two teenage boys of the family, they're in a coma. The father can't move or talk. The mother is in occupational therapy. Can you even imagine? The pest control company is Terminix; it told CNN that it is cooperating with authorities.
Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, shocking new details from Kenya. Why its elite rapid response team couldn't reach the deadly siege for hours; 12 hours this attack happened before they got on site.
Plus this -- call it Clinton campaign 2.0. The former Secretary of State and her team making major changes before a potential 2016 announcement. What are they? We've got the details.
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[11:11:20] BOLDUAN: We're getting a rare and exclusive look at the conflict that is tearing apart the country of Yemen, a key ally to the United States's counterterrorism efforts, of course. A CNN arriving in country saw no one, really, virtually on the roads of Yemen's capital city, but also ample evidence of shattering blows delivered by a Saudi-led coalition, an air campaign trying to beat back rebel forces there.
They also saw people rushing to get on planes so they can escape the country, these evacuees bringing only what they could carry.
Our Nima Elbagir just got back from that exclusive trip into Yemen. She's joining us now from Djibouti. So Nima, this is the first time that we're getting to see the devastation really close up. And you see those faces of people trying to rush to get on those planes. What else did you hear and see while you were there?
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were going in during that window that the Saudi Arabian Air Force provided for flights like ours to come in and evacuate, so we were going in in really the only period of quiet that so many of those residents in Sana'a have every day. It's the only time that they know that the shelling, that the aerial bombardment will stop.
And yet the streets were completely empty as we were coming in. It really felt like flying into the eye of the storm. We knew that there was so much chaos around us, but you almost couldn't feel it because it was just like a no man's land. Deserted. And then you come into the airport, an international airport, and there's just this one Houthi military police car going 'round and 'round, keeping an eye on the plane, watching to see that nobody that they don't want is coming, and nothing that they don't want is being brought into the country.
And there's an awful sense of time ticking away, because the crew knew that that window of opportunity was closing. And yet to get people through what the Houthis consider immigration, to get them to that plane was so, so hard. And you saw it on people's faces. When they finally got off those buses, they ran to the planes and had to leave everything they were trying to pull along behind, only what they could carry. Absolute exhaustion on people's faces. Some people were asleep before we'd even properly taken off.
And speaking to some of them, they were still so scared, Kate, that most of them wouldn't speak on camera. But those that did speak to us said it's the nights that are the worst, it's the nights where the shelling and the mortar, one told me, lights up the sky.
BOLDUAN: And also amidst all of this, you can see the relief on their faces once they are on the plane. But amidst all of this, a big question of how effective this Saudi-led campaign has been in pushing back the Houthi Shiite rebels. But you got such an amazing glimpse into what these people are up against, trying to get out of the country when they are caught in the middle of just horrific, horrific violence. Nima, thank you so much. It's amazing work that she's doing there.
Also happening right now, another huge story that we want to talk more about. Kenya bombing al Shabaab camps in Somalia right now; this is four days after the massacre of almost 150 college students. Kenyan authorities, they are on a manhunt for the suspected mastermind of that attack. His name is Mohamed Mohamud. He's a senior al Shabaab leader. There's $250,000 (sic) reward being offered for his capture. But what does that really mean? Kenyan officials say one of the campus gunmen was also the son of a government official, once a promising student himself.
Joining us now to discuss, CNN's counterterrorism analyst, Phil Mudd. He's also the author of a new book just out, "The Head Game". It's great to have you, Phil.
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: I don't know when you found time to write a book when I don't find time to do anything. But anyway, on this important -- it actually -- your book applies to this exact discussion that we're having in the discussion of the effectiveness of al Shabaab, what is al Shabaab.
[11:15:00] But first off, who is this mastermind? Does it matter who the mastermind is? Because so often we talk about you take out the leadership and it doesn't matter because someone else fills that void. But does it matter with al Shabaab?
MUDD: Sure, it makes a big difference. When you look at terror groups, you can divide anymore into segments. There are the guys on the street fighting. Those are typically not people who are going to come back to New York or Washington and explode something.
You got to worry at the leadership level about the small number of groups who have leaders, who have vision to say, look, our only mission isn't a local mission. It's not in Kenya or Somalia. We have a bigger Al Qaeda mission and that is to go after the head of the snake, that's New York and Washington, and inspire people in that group to attack those cities. So these leaders are important, and I think taking them off the street, including this fella, was important, not necessarily to stopping the threat in Somalia, but stopping the threat here in the U.S.
BOLDUAN: There have been some criticism coming at the Kenyan authorities. This attack lasted 12 hours. You're talking four gunmen and, like, 150 people killed, really, execution style. The delay that it took in them getting there. I do wonder your thought on this. How from the U.S. intelligence standpoint, how would you look at this? Because on one level, it's easy to criticize after the fact, but on another level, they've hit soft targets like this before. 2013, Nairobi, the mall. It's not like this hasn't happened before. This didn't come out of nowhere.
MUDD: You've got to look at a couple pieces here. First is securing the physical space. That is the college campus. I've seen people comment in the past day or two, saying they should secure the space better because there are threats from Shabaab. And I step back and say, okay, why don't you secure ports, airports, police stations.
BOLDUAN: That's why it's called a (INAUDIBLE) target.
MUDD: That's exactly right, so you look at this and say, we have one target hit. Let's not assume we can cover every target. I think the question going ahead, though, is not only can you secure these sites, do you develop intelligence totally different question. It's good enough to identify the people responsible and stopping it. In my world, that's two fundamentally different issues. Can you stop the attack. Can you stop the people responsible for the attack? Big difference.
BOLDUAN: Well, you point out in your book, that that was a miss by U.S. Intelligence. That early on, missing the signals of Al-Shabaab and the extent of recruiting efforts in the United States. Is that -- different I'm sure has changed in that people have wised up. But, what are the Al-Shabaab recruiting efforts? What extent recruiting effort, do you think, in the United States right now? How serious and how much of a concern is it?
MUDD: I appreciate you highlighting the one mistake I point out in my book.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLDUAN: That's what we're goo at you know.
MUDD: When we first started seeing an Al-Shabaab problem in the United States, what we saw, fundamental question, is Al-Shabaab raising money out of a country, that is United States, that's incredibly rich and has a lot of, frankly, Al-Shabaab sympathizers? The answer was yes. We did not ask, and this is where I fought myself, a second question. If we see that amount of fund-raising, might we also be seeing people recruited to go to a place, like Somali, because we have large Somali (INAUDIBLE) community in the United States, and some of those kids were vulnerable.
I think the story is changed a lot. Somali looks a lot different today than it did ten years ago. There are still some kids we should worry about traveling there. But, the big story in town for Jihadi, is not going to Somali, it's going to Iraq and Syria. We've seen Somalis, from around the world, Somali's patriots, go to Iraq and Syria rather than Somali. Remarkable change.
BOLDUAN: And also we're talking about some of these gunmen. One of these gunmen was promising kid himself. He's son of a government official. He wasn't disenfranchised, impoverished person that had nowhere to go. They say he'd promising future himself. They're not coming out of -- they're not needing, to unnecessarily, to recruit for the United States. They've got plenty they are dealing with. (INAUDIBLE)
MUDD: That's right, but it's not just them either. It's us. We've got the same problem of wheat we call home-growns here. Not just people coming over from a place like Pakistan and Afghanistan, but people in New York or California saying I want to be part of this movement. I interesting when I saw this news over the past day about a kid of a government minister. I'm saying wow. That's the same thing we're seeing in New York.
BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. Phil, great to see you. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for being in the studio for once. You're always in a different city. That's always my joke with you. Where is Phil Mudd today?
MUDD: I'll stick around. I'm here for a good two days.
BOLDUAN: We'll have you out again. Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, major failures at Rolling Stone magazine. A scathing report just released hammering the magazine, but no suspensions, no firings. Do heads need to roll after the retraction of that UVA rape story?
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BOLDUAN: The story in "Rolling Stone" was shocking. Well, now its retraction is sending out shock waves. The magazine has taken back its story about a gang rape at the University of Virginia. An outside investigation found major editorial errors and said this failure of journalism could have been avoided. The author, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, has apologized for her mistakes. UVA's president said that the story damaged innocent people, did nothing to combat sexual violence and hurt serious efforts to address what is a very serious issue.
Mark Herring is Virginia's Attorney General. He is joining us by phone. Mr. Attorney General, I really appreciate you jumping on. This is a story that everyone paid attention to when it came out and now, as equally interested in the fallout, realizing that it basically was all made up. You issued a strong statement following the release of the review last night, saying this in part, "'Rolling Stone' failures have put survivors in a more difficult position, shaking the university community and injected doubt in a moment when we are building momentum around efforts to end campus sexual violence." I want to get your personal take, if you will. What was your initial reaction when you realized that this was all essentially made up?
MARK HERRING, VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL (via telephone): Well, we were working hard on this issue, in Virginia, for months, well before the "Rolling Stone" article came out. We were determined then just as we're determined now to take concrete steps to eliminate sexual violence from college campus, and we're not going to let the shortcomings of the "Rolling Stone" article detract from that mission.
BOLDUAN: Do the shortcomings in the "Rolling Stone" article, and when you hear your statement and statement of UVA's president doing nothing to help combat sexual violence, does that hurt your efforts?
[11:24:40] HERRING: Well, certainly that's a major concern and that's why I want every student in Virginia to know that if I had been a victim, that they should never feel further victimized by a response that is inadequate or suspicious or judgmental. And what we're working on, in Virginia, is to make sure that the students here know that if they report sexual violence or sexual misconduct, they are not going to be pressured. They are not going to be judged. And they will be treated, at all times, with the respect and compassion they deserve.
BOLDUAN: Is that your biggest fear at this point? That that message, no matter how many times you say and how forceful you say it, that that message is not going to be heard on that college campus now? HERRING: Well. this issue cannot and will not be pushed back into the
shadows. We are moving forward and while the Rolling Stone article might have taken a lot of attention away from that important point, because we were trying to get to the facts and to the bottom of it, it's now time to get back to the issue of how best to have a survivor (INAUDIBLE) response, and to take concrete steps to preventing sexual assault on our college campuses, and making sure when there are instances reported, that they are treated with the compassion and respect they deserve.
BOLDUAN: I absolutely appreciate that you are being diplomatic and careful in your language, Mr. Attorney General. The university, they seem outraged. I'm sure you, personally, are outraged, as well, on how all of this went down. The review of this story says, that brought this issue to light, basically said there's institutional failures, from top down, that could have been avoided if basic questions and basic skepticism had been applied. No one, though, connected to the story is seeing any punishment. They think the people involved in this story in writing this story, have already faced punishment enough. Do you agree?
HERRING: Well, the degree in which this could have been prevented is really shocking. And Rolling Stone's failure have put survivors in a more difficult position. They have shaken the university community and injected doubt in a moment when, you know, we were really moving forward around efforts to end campus sexual violence, to see systematic and internal failure laid there and to hear that there is no accountability is really hard for me to understand.
BOLDUAN: Will you read "Rolling Stone" again?
HERRING: I like to take my news from a lot of different sources.
BOLDUAN: Mr. Attorney General, Mark Herring, we really appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
HERRING: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: And most importantly, good luck on your efforts because it is a huge issue that does continually to need to be discussed, especially in light of this review.
Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, clock is ticking against Hillary Clinton. When will she announce her second bid for the White House? We're getting clues about her plans to run. What are those clues? What does it tell us? Oh, were going to look.
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