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At This Hour
Manhunt Continues for Al-Shabaab Leader; Yemen in Chaos; Cuba to Be Taken Off State-Sponsored Terror List; Rand Paul Running for President; Family Poisoned by Banned Pesticide. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired April 07, 2015 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's been defensive, the response, let's face it. The response from Kenyan government has been really on the back foot on the defensive and, in fact, this same foreign minister who herself is Muslim and also Somali origin, and you can see incredibly well spoken. Thank the United States for their support. She said basically, why isn't it that anybody recognizes when we save and stop attacks? Why is it just like in a football game -- welcome to every government.
(CROSSTALK)
[11:30:23] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You have to be on and right 100 percent of the time. Terrorists have to be right 1 percent of the time.
AMANPOUR: Exactly. Some governments are making a bigger effort against them.
But what is happening across East Africa, North Africa, Yemen, the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Iraq, is a very troubling confluence of radicalism and extremism just unbridled and it's posing a huge amount of challenges to all of the various governments. As yet, there hasn't really been unlike when al Qaeda was pushed back after the surge, pushed back in Iraq, pushed back in Afghanistan after 9/11, there's a popping up of all of these groups when no one government able to push it back. Yemen isn't doing better and Saudis are leading a multi-air coalition there.
BOLDUAN: The attacks continue in Somalia. They have continued before this attack and after this massacre against Al-Shabaab. But it's important to highlight and have that official on because there are questions and now, I would argue, they've spurred protests on the ground there.
AMANPOUR: People are very worried.
BOLDUAN: Thanks, Christiane. It's great to see you.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, as Yemen collapses into chaos, many countries are getting their citizens out. The United States, not yet. Will they? What does the U.S. need to do more of? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:35:28] BOLDUAN: AT THIS HOUR, Yemen is descending into complete chaos. Today, Saudi Arabian airstrikes hit a school and three students were killed. And some 600 people have died since the air campaign began just over a week ago. The human toll of stopping what is thought to be the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels from taking over this key U.S. ally has been steep. Now, Saudi Arabia is asking Pakistan for military aid in the form of warships, aircraft and soldiers signaling the ground war could be coming soon.
CNN counterterrorism analyst, Phil Mudd, is here to discuss; and author of the newly released book "The Head Game."
Phil, great to see you.
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST & AUTHOR: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: The Saudi-led air campaign is in its 12th day. Folks said this would be fast and swift and get done. It's in its 12th day. A question to what degree of success even though the Saudi ambassador told Wolf yesterday they've had huge success. What do you think the view is from the U.S.?
MUDD: I don't understand how people can talk about quick success. You look at counterterrorism campaigns around the world talking about Philippines and Indonesia and our campaign in Afghanistan still ongoing 14 years later, 12 days is less than a blink of an eye. I think there is success here in terms of stemming the onslaught of Houthi rebels. If you are watching people like this, the rebels speak, they hate airpower. The problem and this is where Pakistanis come in, the problem is what happens after. Once you stop the advance through the capital, what's the government when the president isn't there anymore?
BOLDUAN: That's where the focus probably is for U.S. intelligence and that's where I want to ask you. They're asking Pakistan for support, including ground troops. You would point to potential of a huge escalation if they move into ground operation. From the U.S. perspective on that element, is that a smart move or does that simply risk more lives and open up more of a vacuum or more space for al Qaeda to capitalize?
MUDD: I don't think you can talk about stabilizing Yemen without a ground presence. It would be sort of like talking about stabilizing Iraq without a ground presence. Not going to happen. Iraqi army has to deliver if you're going to have some kind of stable government there. What we've had now is the initial stage of using air power which can stop elements of an insurgency from moving forward. It can't work with the U.N. to say if we stopped the move forward of the Houthis, now what happens with a political process to reinstall the government that left. If you want that political process to come after airstrikes, you have to have forces on the ground to stabilize.
BOLDUAN: What is that political process? You and I have discussed this. You have two fronts, if you will, happening in Yemen. You have the Shiite rebels taking over parts of the country. You have influence of al Qaeda and they're capitalizing on the chaos, and in the middle of all this you have citizens, some 600 have died since just the airstrikes began and now you've got countries trying to pull their citizens out, U.S. not so much yet. What happens?
MUDD: The concept is simple. The execution is like everything I dealt with in national security. Execution is tough. Concept is we have Arab Spring, like it worked in Egypt and like it worked in Libya, replace the government. You have a government that's acknowledged by the U.S. and the international community and that government has been ousted by the Houthis. A couple questions come up here. Simple concept. Reinstall that government, internationally accepted. But the game has changed. Number one, Houthis will say, excuse me, what's our role in this. Our role has to be bigger than it was before. We own the capital now. You have a second question that will come afterwards. How do you then aid this government to continue prosecuting a war quickly against al Qaeda in the south? I think that the idea of installing a government has to be the principle sort of conclusion of anybody going in and saying what do we do? The question is how will you do that now that the game has changed and Houthis control the capital. They will want a piece of the power.
BOLDUAN: You have a growing humanitarian crisis happening in Yemen right now.
Phil, great to see you.
MUDD: Thank you.
[11:39:52] BOLDUAN: Coming up, we have some breaking news we want to bring to you on Cuba just into CNN. We'll take you live to the White House with that important update. We'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: A big announcement could be coming regarding U.S. relations with Cuba. Let's get over to the White House right now where Sunlen Serfaty is standing by.
What are we expecting from Cuba? There could be a recommendation to remove Cuba from the list of state-sponsors of terror?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kate. This just in from CNN from the State Department, that the U.S. is expected to recommend that Cuba be removed from the state-sponsor of terrorism list. This is a major potential announcement. It could come within a day or two. The White House says they are nearing its completion of a review.
Now, back in December, when President Obama announced the normalizing of relations with Cuba, he then instructed the State Department to make a review. The secretary was instructed to make the review. He said then that the standards and conditions that Cuba would need to reach, he said, that they -- sanctions. We are hearing that the review is upon completion. After the review is sent to Obama, he will either approve or deny, but he's expected to approve it. Then Congress has 45 days to approve the decision to remove Cuba from the state-sponsor of terrorism list -- Kate?
[11:44:25] BOLDUAN: This would be a big first step and first hurdle in establishing embassies in Havana as well as in Washington. This recommendation process we're learning jut now coming from the White House.
Sunlen, thank you so much.
And it comes at a critical time, and important time because the president is about to be heading over to Panama to meet with many countries in the Summit of the Americas where the deputy national security advisor, Ben Rhodes, has said that it's likely the president will have interactions with the president of Cuba, Raul Castro. So it comes at an interesting time, this announcement coming. We'll be watching that very closely.
Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, Rand Paul is jumping in. The Kentucky senator is expected to take the stage at the top of the hour to formally announce a run for the White House in 2016 as he builds a brand that can get him there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: He says he wants to defeat the Washington machine. Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul is running for president. He's going to make the official announcement just minutes from now in Louisville, Kentucky.
On his website today, he said this: "I am running for president to return our country to the principles of liberty and limited government."
Joining me to discuss, CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; as well as Ryan Lizza, CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker."
Gloria, early on, you have to have an idea already of what a Rand Paul campaign will look like. What do you think?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he's going to talk about government being too big and the Republican Party needing to grow itself. Those will be two key things. What he has to do here, Kate, is find that sweet spot for himself, keeping the Republican base happy, convincing him he is as robust as Republicans are on things like national security. And also keeping those enthusiastic Libertarian supporters liking him. Some of them have been a little critical of him saying he's gotten too fuzzy on the issues for them. And so he's got to kind of walk a fine line here and also appeal to the establishment of the Republican Party, many of whom think he doesn't have the national security credibility to be their candidate.
[11:50:22] BOLDUAN: That sounds like a huge challenge.
BORGER: It is.
BOLDUAN: Walking the fine line is not something that politicians can do very well very often.
Ryan, you have done some extensive reporting about Rand Paul. You've followed him very, very closely in his growth and development as a politician. When he says that he wants to run as a Washington outsider, he wants to defeat the Washington machine, let's be honest, he's a Senator from Kentucky. He used very artfully the filibuster, the most Washington of Washington tactics on the Senate floor. How can he really effectively run as a Washington outsider?
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, you have to wonder about politicians who rail against Washington and their whole lives are revolved around getting to Washington to work.
I agree a lot with what Gloria said in terms of the challenges he has. He rose here in Kentucky during a period when Republicans were turning against George W. Bush. That's how he won here in Kentucky, both in the primary and the general election. He ran against the establishment of the Republican Party. And he ran back then against the Iraq war and Bush's foreign policy. And that was a moment in the Republican Party where people were a little bit more receptive to the more isolationist foreign policy. Things have changed in the last two years. The rise of ISIS has really changed the mentality of Republicans when it comes to foreign policy. And they're a lot closer to where they were in the Bush era than they were -- than rand's foreign policy. That's the biggest challenge he has right now is selling that foreign policy to a Republican base that is no longer with him on that. I think he's had the most challenging year over the last year in sort of figuring out where he fits in.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Ron Paul's views haven't changed a lot. He knows exactly the views that he has. He ran -- when he ran presidential campaigns, he ran on fringe elements, if you will. That's not to put it in a bad light, but it wasn't as if he was ever going to make a real run for the candidacy. What is the role of Ron Paul when his son is running? Does that matter?
BORGER: I think if you want to keep the Libertarian base that's very enthusiastic and involved, Rand Paul is not going to shove his dad to the side. He's also not going to make him front and center because some of his father's views he's had to temper to a great degree. He doesn't consider himself an isolationist per se. And one of the things we're going to be looking at to Ryan's point is how Rand Paul positions himself on this Iran deal. He's been very cautious about it. He's saying he's going to take a look at it. He is clearly -- has not been as robust as muscular has a lot of Republicans have been against Iran. And so this is going to be another issue where the Republican establishment is going to take a look at him and see how different he will be from his father. He's going to be less solidly Libertarian. I would say, Libertarian light compared to Ron Paul. But then again, anybody would be.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLDUAN: Exactly. You stole my line. That's exactly what I was going to say.
(LAUGHTER)
He's also going to be facing, when you talk about conservatives --
(CROSSTALK)
LIZZA: And Ron will be here today, by the way.
BORGER: That's right.
BOLDUAN: He will be here. You'd expect him to want to be there to support his son.
LIZZA: He'll make the announcement in Louisville, yeah.
[11:54:01] BOLDUAN: We will see. It's going to get fun. It's just starting to get fun.
Gloria, Ryan, great to see you.
I think we're taking a look at live pictures. My television is too far away from me to tell who's on the stage right now. I apologize, viewers. You can probably tell who that is over me. We'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: A pesticide so powerful that the U.S. government made it illegal to use indoors in the U.S. and its territories. But authorities believe a Delaware family was exposed to methyl bromide while on vacation in the U.S. Virgin Islands when a pest control company fumigated a condo below theirs at a resort.
Senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is here.
Elizabeth, when you lay out these facts, it's scary to anyone who's been going on vacation. No way for this family to know. Now they've all been in the hospital, the two sons still in a coma. Talk to me about the effects this chemical has on the body and the potential for any long-term impacts.
DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This chemical is highly, highly toxic. You just need to be exposed to it for two hours to have ill effects. It can start with vomiting, go into seizure and it can kill people. It's not supposed to be used indoors. There is no antidote. We don't know exactly what care these two teenage boys are getting. And we certainly -- they are in our thoughts and in our prayers. All they can do really is just give them what's called supportive care, which is just do everything they can to make sure that their heart and lungs are working as hard as they can. Unfortunately even when people do recover, there can be long-term consequences because this chemical affects the central nervous system.
BOLDUAN: So this should not have happened. But does this pesticide exist elsewhere that folks need to know about?
COHEN: It is used legitimately outdoors. Sometimes it's injected into the soil where strawberries are grown. But it is under no circumstances supposed to be used indoors. So this was a major error of monumental proportion.
BOLDUAN: We know now that the resort is no longer -- has canceled its contract with this company. We know the government is looking into criminal charges against this company. And obviously our hearts and prayers are with this family as they continue to recover.
[12:00:03] Elizabeth, thank you so much.
Thank you all for joining us AT THIS HOUR.
"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
