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At This Hour

Cop Refuses to Shoot Aggressive Suspect; Candidate Hillary Clinton Dominating Polls; "Washington Post" Lambasts Iran's Accusations of Journalist; ISIS Kills 30 Ethiopian Christians. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 20, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:32:25] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: After all the controversy involving police shootings in recent months, in the news, today dramatic video where an officer chose not to fire even when facing an aggressive suspect and even when he almost definitely would have been justified in firing. Look at what happens as Jesse Kidder confronted a man wanted for a double homicide in Richmond, Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFC. JESSE KIDDER, NEW RICHMOND POLICE DEPARTMENT: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Stop it right now. Back up! Back the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up! Get down on the ground!

9/11 OPERATOR (INAUDIBLE)

KIDDER: Stop! Stop right there! I don't want to shoot you, man. I don't want to shoot you! (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You can hear that go on and on and on.

An important note here, the only reason that we're even seeing this video is because that officer, his family, had given him a body camera following the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, last year.

Let's discuss what this video means with the police chief of New Richmond. Randy Harvey is joining us from Cincinnati.

Chief, great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on this morning.

I wanted to talk to you about that officer, Officer Kidder. You said he showed great restraint in how he handled that suspect. When you list out what the suspect did and had up against hip, you almost wonder why. He's a double homicide suspect. He's possibly armed. He's clearly verbally threatening a police officer. Refusing to take his hands out of his pocket which is a threatening posture and as you see in the video, he charges repeatedly at the officer. Do you think you would have responded the same way as Officer Kidder here? RANDY HARVEY, CHIEF, NEW RICHMOND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes, I do. I

believe I would have responded the same way. You've got to understand that there was 11 minutes of prior conversation between the officer and dispatcher informing the officer of the circumstances behind all this and informing the officer that this subject may attempt suicide by cop. So having that prior knowledge and having the knowledge that he had, helped Officer Kidder in making the decisions that he did. Officer Kidder displayed extreme restraint in this situation and I have to give him much credit that throughout the situation he continuously kept his eyes on the suspect, continuously observing the actions of the suspect, and by those actions, moment by moment, making the right decisions.

[11:35:18] BERMAN: By his actions as a suspect who is it still alive at this moment and the officer is, too, thankfully.

You and I had a chance to speak earlier. You told me you would not show this video in training as a model of behavior though. I'm wondering why not? Are you concerned that perhaps he should have fired here and that he showed too much restraint and given the fact pattern laid out in front of him that perhaps an officer should have fired?

HARVEY: It's not that I would not show it as a training video. There are some examples in that video that absolutely are training aids to police officers and what's good about this is that he displays that he continues to give verbal commands and in this incident the subject just ignores those verbal commands. It's also a training aid in that the officer continues to keep distance and keeps from the threat. Officers are taught to do that to maintain a safe distance from the threat, so in that respect, yes. When I say as a training aid, I'm referring to that every situation is different. This whole situation could have been totally different. Any variable may have changed the outcome of this situation.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Officer Kidder deserves all of the positive ado that he is receiving. We learned his family gave him this body camera following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. I want to get your sense. How do you think the attention of allegations of excessive use of force on the part of police and protests that have stemmed -- the outrage stemming from those allegations across the country? How has that impacted your officers? Do you think that influenced the behavior or how Officer Kidder reacted?

BERMAN: A chilling effect.

HARVEY: Well, it's without a doubt that police officers nowadays are out there and they are being extremely cautious. The body cam just happens to be a tool that was used in this incident that captured the whole incident. If this would have just been a dash cam, the only thing that would have been captured is the initial officer getting out of his car and maybe the first few steps of the suspect. We would have lost video footage and voice footage if this would have been just a dash cam. Fortunately, this body cam captured the entire event. That's what's important about this. I think that there's a lot of instances where the general public and even the media only gets a portion of what they see and there's a lot of second-guessing and a lot of scrutiny on police officers out there. The body cam was able to dispel any of that scrutiny.

BOLDUAN: Very different headline that your officer is making and your police department is making today and we wanted to highlight that.

Chief Randy Harvey, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, candidate Hillary Clinton is making her first trip to New Hampshire and she'll be armed with some new poll numbers showing just how dominant her campaign is right now.

BERMAN: Plus, the greatest event in the greatest city on earth happening now. Boston Marathon strong and proud one day before a jury begins to decide the fate of the man behind the 2013 attacks there.

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[11:42:31] BOLDUAN: Hillary Clinton making her first official campaign stop today in New Hampshire. The visit coming on the heels of a new poll showing the former secretary of state has a pretty big, some would say huge lead, in the 2016 presidential race, 69 percent. Vice President Joe Biden at a distant second, as you can see.

BERMAN: Slightly on the side of the margin of error.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: On the Republican side, wide-open race. Florida Governor Jeb Bush, former Florida governor, with a small lead over Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, and Senators Rand Paul and Marco Rubio. This is Marco Rubio's first foray into the lead pack.

Let's bring in senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. He's in New Hampshire, waiting for Hillary Clinton, I think, at a furniture factory. That's the first stop.

Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. You're right, this factory has been here for more than a century and Hillary Clinton is going to use it on the first New Hampshire stop to talk about the economy and how small businesses can grow the economy. She's arriving on a windy morning hear but New Hampshire has strong and good memories for the Clintons. She remembers from her 2008 primary when she won the primary in 2008 but she also remembers it from one of the biggest and best moments of her campaign. It's when a woman asked her a question how do you do it? It was one of those rare signs of emotion in 2008. Yesterday, we caught up with that woman and here's what she had to say when we talked to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not as stressed out looking. I don't think she has anything to prove anymore because she knows she did a great job. She looks much more vibrant and bouncier and more fresher. I like her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: That's just the view of one voter. It's one voter who asked a question that produced a key moment of her campaign. Clinton campaign believes they can win over voters one at a time here. Those early polls are a good sign for them. Their advisers are dismissing them and not paying attention to them so early in this campaign -- John and Kate?

BOLDUAN: They are still trying to fight back the idea of it being a coronation.

BERMAN: I don't believe they're not paying attention.

BOLDUAN: Of course, they pay attention.

BERMAN: I know full well that they saw those pictures.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

So what's the biggest takeaway then on the Republican side with these numbers? That's a much more tight race right now.

[11:45:02] ZELENY: It is a tight race and there's no clear leader in this. Some strong news for Marco Rubio. In the first week of his presidential campaign, he's coming on strong and now is tied with Jeb Bush in terms of who Republicans believe the future of the party is. So that certainly gives him a bit of a good news going forward. So many Republicans in the race here, Jeb Bush is still the strongest overall but not very strong. It's not a comfortable lead at all. The biggest takeaway for Hillary Clinton, the enthusiasm factor. Now, 58 percent of Democrats say they are enthused about her running for president. Only 41 percent last summer said they were enthused. That's a good moment as she finally announces her campaign here. But this is a long way to go until the New Hampshire primary. She knows she has to campaign hard for this nomination.

BERMAN: More than 570 days. Jeff, you'll be there the entire time.

Jeff Zeleny, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. We have breaking news on what many considered to be an assault on the free press. For nine months, "The Washington Post," bureau chief in Tehran, Jason Rezaian, has been held by the government, no word on why he was being held. Now today, at last, after nine months, we have learned what charges this man faces, charges a lot of people deem as ludicrous.

[11:50:03] BOLDUAN: Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, following this closely and joining us now with much more. Jim, you've been, as I said, not only following it but spoke with his

family about this. Tell us more ain't the breaking news and the charges and also the family's responding.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is a worse case scenario when you look at the charges laid out by his lawyer in Tehran. In addition to spying, it also says he's been accused of collaborating with hostile governments as well as writing a letter to President Obama. In addition to that, collecting classified information and conducting propaganda against the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran. You have four charges there including spying, propaganda, collecting classified if information, collaborating with host style governments. Those are serious charges.

And keep in mind, Jason Rezaian, "The Washington Post" reporter -- you're seeing there with his wife, who was held in prison with him earlier, released a number of months ago -- he's both American and Iranian, and when you have that dual nationality in Iran, they view as just an Iranian and subject to Iranian laws and subject to the Iranian judicial system. But when you look at the charges, no one in this country believes them to have any basis. In fact, I spoke at length with his brother yesterday for CNN "State of the Union." When you look at the bases of these charges, the evidence that's presented is so thin, here's what his brother, Ali, had to say to me yesterday. "Jason certainly feels betrayed by the country" -- he's talking about Iran, because this is part of his nationality, part of his family background" -- "by the legal system there, which he believes should protect him with the rights of an Iranian citizen." His brother told me he's depressed. He's being held in prison in Tehran. This is a notorious prison for decades where they've held political prisoners, the worst criminals. There have been accounts of torture in the prison. Just the circumstances there are really lousy. And he's feeling it physically and mentally.

And again, I just want to let you know, if you look at the basis of the charges, they put up evidence that he introduced one Iranian- American to another Iranian-American. I mean that doesn't sound to me like espionage work. I'm sure it doesn't sound to you. I mean these are political charges against an American journalist in Iran and it's really a sad story for him and his family.

BERMAN: Sad for journalism, period. "The Washington Post" says the charges are ludicrous, absurd, despicable. And I don't think he goes without noting the United States is engaged in nuclear negotiations with Iran so this will only complicate the situation there.

BOLDUAN: Again, he's been held since July 22nd if you can imagine that. Nine months we're talking that he has been behind bars without communication really, and now finally hearing the ludicrous charges as many are laying out. Now what happens, that's a big question that I don't think anyone can answer at this moment.

Jim Sciutto, great reporting. Jim, thank you so much.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, convert to Islam or pay with your lives. That threat from a mass ISIS operative on a new video purportedly showing the killing of 30 Ethiopian Christians. Coming up, Fareed Zakaria will weigh in on what's different about the latest horrifying video.

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[11:57:06] BOLDUAN: ISIS fighters in Libya demonstrating once again with cold-blooded clarity they have no regard for human life. The terror group has released a video which appears to show the brutal execution of some 30 men who are said to be Ethiopian Christians.

BERMAN: What's interesting about this video, or should I say videos, is it shows executions in two separate locations inside Libya. There's a production element to this which is revealing. Two separate locations in Libya apparently edited by the production arm of ISIS back in Syria or Iraq. Does this show a level of coordination?

Let's bring in our own Fareed Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria, GPS."

What it seems we're seeing here is, ISIS trying to show they are an international, truly, organization with reach beyond Syria and Iraq.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS: Remember, their goal ultimately is to create a caliphate. The caliphate, you know, if you go back to the ninth, tenth century, started spreading well beyond Arabia, across North Africa. In a sense, what they're trying to say is the caliphate is back and we have these tentacles all over. It's not clear how much of Libya they actually control, but as always with ISIS, you have to be impressed by the dramatic P.R. effect of what they can do.

BOLDUAN: How significant would it be if they did reach, as they're trying to show, into these big -- the various parts of Libya, from the ocean to the desert and far beyond, Iraq and Syria, where everyone is focused?

ZAKARIA: It would be extraordinarily significant for two reasons. One, Libya is very close to Europe. I mean, there's a reason you have all these Libyan migrants, because it's essentially a very short boat trip. Secondly, of course, Libya has a lot of oil. I mean, it's not Iraq or Saudi Arabia, but Libya is a major oil producing state.

BOLDUAN: That's where ISIS got a lot of its money.

BERMAN: And Libya is a giant vacuum where chaos reigns and have people running around, armed insurgencies. Any evidence, Fareed, that ISIS, the main ISIS headquarters, in so far as there is one, is actually controlling events in the far flung places like Libya.

ZAKARIA: Not really. On the other hand they did manage to produce this video which shows you they do have people over there. What we do seem to know is there are people who are in alliance and association and that there is some kind of coordination. But is there an actual central command that is saying go to Libya? I doubt it. I think these are probably opportunistic decisions. But what is again frightening is not so much the reach but the level of brutality, the idea of this cold-blooded murder of Christians, innocent civilians. It's worth pointing out, this goes well beyond al Qaeda. One never thought we would say this, but this would shock al Qaeda.

BERMAN: It's seen as barbaric.

BOLDUAN: And the message speaking in American-accented English so it shows where a lot of this messaging and who the targeted audience is.

BERMAN: Fareed, thanks so much for being with us.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Fareed.

[12:00 06] BERMAN: That's all for us AT THIS HOUR.

BOLDUAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.