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At This Hour

Calm in the Streets of Baltimore; Interview with Rep. Elijah Cummings; How to Keep the Peace in Baltimore; Baltimore A Test for Loretta Lynch. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 29, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:05] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a very different day in Baltimore. Law enforcement still on guard but the streets there relatively quiet. You can even see school buses. Protesters for the most part complying with the curfew in place overnight. Public schools are back open today. The Baltimore Orioles will take the field, though the stands will be empty.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman live in Baltimore this morning. I'm standing right in front of the city hall here in Baltimore. And as Kate said, the headline here is it is calm. Relatively calm here in Baltimore, a welcome calm in this city.

I should say the state of emergency does remain in place. There is a strong police presence on the streets, and even a military presence. You can see the National Guard right behind me, armed troops, the armored personnel carriers and humvees right here. They are about and about today, but students are not. The public schools reopened so the kids are back in their classrooms right now. The school district is warning those students who participated in the violence, and who continue to participate in violence, that they will be held accountable. They're going to look at that video.

Baltimore's police commissioner says he believes that the curfew is working. 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. Now, right after that curfew started overnight, it did look as if some clashes would erupt. There was some moments of tension. Members of the crowd did throw objects at the police. You saw the police use smoke canisters and also pepper pellets to push protesters away. And they did go away. That street where all this happened was relatively calm just an hour after that. Ten people were arrested overnight compared to 200, more than 200, the night before.

I want to go straight to Ryan Young right now who is outside the CVS which was on fire not 48 hours ago. And Ryan, give me a sense of what you are seeing this morning, the results now of this 24 hours of increased law enforcement presence and this curfew that happened overnight.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what a difference. But I really want to say that I think it's a combination between police and the community. There were a lot of conversations that happened out here on the street during that demonstration yesterday I think that helped keep relative calm throughout the night.

We were here from about 10:30 yesterday morning all of the way to 12:00 last night, and community members were having constant conversations with police officers that helped when, finally the situation came for curfew to be cleared, people were able to have that conversation, start pushing those people away from the area.

Now, to set the scene here, yesterday this intersection was shut down. We were standing with these people as they were chanting, as they were singing songs together. Black people and white people, all day long talking about the need for peace. Now, you can see the police presence has moved to the side, and you can see them flanking that street over there of West North Avenue. Not blocking the intersection like they did yesterday. The lines are not there. And including the love lines not there with people separating police from the community.

We've seen constant conversation. And I've heard from some people in the community this is finally what they needed. They needed the community and police to stand together. The CVS is just on the other side. And a church group just arrived. What they're going to do is they're going to cook hamburgers and hot dogs for the community throughout the day. The group was telling me the reason why they wanted to be here is they wanted to make sure this community stays peaceful. Everyone is trying to pitch in just a little bit.

You look on this side. There are officers who are tucked in this corner right here. They've had conversations with people, but obviously the tone is completely different than what we've seen in the last 24 hours. The stress still remains here though. There are people walking around saying they still want to be heard and they want to make sure this doesn't get washed away after last night. They want to keep that symbolism between the police and the community, but so many people coming out, working together at this point. John?

BERMAN: Ryan, any sense of what happens there tonight? Yesterday we saw those joyous people there really celebrating all day, and then last night there was a moment where it looked like things might get ugly. Any preparations for tonight to make sure things don't go bad?

YOUNG: That's a great question, and I want to say this. One of the things we noticed yesterday after being here for more than 12 hours out here on the streets, the crowd changed. There was people who were here throughout the day, then right before curfew, a different group of people showed up. I can honestly tell you the crowd managed a lot of them. That's why I don't think you saw a lot of unrest.

We got hit with tear gas. We watched people run. But for the most part we didn't see police have to put heavy hands on people. A lot of times, we saw community members pushing people out of the street especially when they started throwing bottles. Some of the first tackles that were made were by community members. No one is talking about tonight just yet. But if you look at the crowds and you look at the streets, I don't even know, in terms of conversation, whether or not that's going to be an issue just yet. Don't have that feeling of anything stirring up so far.

[11:05:09] BERMAN: Let's hope nothing does stir up. Ryan Young, thank you so much.

Ryan was talking about the importance of community leaders in keeping this calm, making this curfew work. No leader, I think it's safe to say, has done as much as Representative Elijah Cummings, a congressman who represents half of Baltimore, lives in West Baltimore. And last night he was in the middle of that gathering telling people to go home, to get off the streets.

Just a short time ago, I spoke to him right here and I asked him if he thought the curfew was working.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: It worked. You had a few people who didn't want to go home. I saw them. I mean, it was less than -- I'd say, less than 200 people. But I think it was the efforts of the mayor, our leadership here; the clergy played a very significant role. We just had a lot of volunteers who wanted to show a better Baltimore than the night before, because we wanted to show the true Baltimore. And people worked together to make it happen.

BERMAN: You say you know there were a few people out there because you were among them, at the area where there was the most tension last night. What did you see what you were there?

CUMMINGS: What I saw was a lot of people who were very upset and wanting to give voice, I think, to pain. Things they have been through in their life. But you know what, I think what came through more than anything else is the pain of not seeing a future. A pain of feeling hopelessness. And it just made me feel like, you know, we have got to do more. At 64 years old, I'm saying to myself, I've had my opportunity. What about them? And I thought about all of the people that made it possible for me to be where I am today. And I said, you know what? We can do better. All of us as a society.

BERMAN: Where you are today as a member of Congress; where you were last night was amidst this crowd, which at a certain point did not look like it was going to be a peaceful crowd. And you were trying to get them to go home. You were there putting your skin on the line trying to get them to go home. Did they hear you? What did -- as you were talking to them, do you think they heard you?

CUMMINGS: Some of them heard me. Yes, some of them.

BERMAN: How do you know?

CUMMINGS: Just things they told me. You know, a lot of times -- I mean, when you -- see, I live in the neighborhood. And so when you -- and I have kids. And you can tell when you -- they may be a little boisterous at first. But then when you stop and listen, and if they really trust you, and you let them say what they got to say and you say, well, look, I'm here for you. I hear you. The first thing they want to know is that you hear them. And then you say, you know what, I'm going to do everything I can for you. And they believe that. So now we have to follow through.

But it's not just the mayor; it's not just the city council, not just me. It's as a society we have to do better. Because the economy is moving forward, people coming out of recession. The banks are doing well. And yet there are communities that are being left behind. We're talking about austerity in Washington and in Annapolis, our capital. But yet still these communities need a lot of help. An we need to help these young people rise up to be all God intended them to be.

BERMAN: It's bigger than what happened last night. It's bigger than what's happened this week.

CUMMINGS: Oh, much bigger. Much bigger.

BERMAN: But you have to get through nights like last night. You have to get through nights like tonight.

CUMMINGS: That's right.

BERMAN: Are you going to be back on the streets tonight?

CUMMINGS: Definitely. Definitely. I have no choice. Because, again, these are my neighbors.

And I -- see, the other thing is that a lot of our -- we had a jobs fair a few -- I do it every year -- about two months ago. What happened is you have people that come through the jobs fair but guess what? They can't get a job. You know why? Because they've got a record. You understand what I'm saying?

And so a fellow said to me the other day, Mr. Cummings, my brothers, they're in prison for selling marijuana, but when I turn on the television, I see people in Colorado buying marijuana big-time. So then people begin about the unfairness.

And the other thing I don't want us to ever forget is the fact that how all this started with Freddie Gray, a young man who ran from the police. And never -- no command had been made of him by the way. And even if they had, he can still run.

BERMAN: Congressman, you got to go, you got to run back to Washington, so just one last question. As you head back to Washington today to do the other part of your job, be a Congressman, what's in your heart today? Is it -- are you happy, happier today than you've been? Or is it still --

CUMMINGS: I'm relieved for a moment. I'm only relieved for a moment, because I realize that I made some commitments that I got to keep. And I realize that I've got to convince other people that we all have to -- first of all, make the commitment to our young people, and then follow through. So that's what's going to be on my mind today.

BERMAN: We'll see you back here on the streets tonight. Congressman, thank you so much.

CUMMINGS: All right. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[11:10:08] BERMAN: Kate, relieved for a moment. And you know Congressman Cummings, and you know he will be out on those streets tonight. And I get a sense he's going to be there every night as long as he's needed.

BOLDUAN: I think you're absolutely right, John, and you can really sense no matter -- the conversation is so different when you talk to a Congressman Cummings. The man you were talking to was Mr. Elijah Cummings. I mean, that was -- you can see how personal this is for him. As you were mentioning, he lives there. These are his neighbors. It's really revealing to see the personal connection and how he has a personal stake in making sure that things stay safe and it doesn't happen again.

That was a great interview, John. We're going to continue obviously all of our coverage on Baltimore, including this, everybody. A major league first in Baltimore. Due to security concerns in the city, this afternoon's game between the Baltimore Orioles and the Chicago White Sox is going to be closed to the public. Meaning no fans and almost 46,000 empty seats. The move by Major League Baseball comes after games on Monday and Tuesday, they were postponed, but they need to pick back up with the schedule so this is how they're handling it. We're going to talk about this extraordinary move a little later this hour from Camden Yards, the home of the Orioles.

And Speaking of sports here and how it relates to this crisis, former Baltimore Raven Ray Lewis, he's making an impassioned plea to those who took part in the violent protests. Look at this.

All right. He made an impassioned plea on his Facebook page telling kids go home, stay home. Clearly didn't have that for you. Lewis announced that he will not be attending the NFL draft in Chicago tomorrow night. Instead, he's going to be staying in Baltimore as the situation there continues to unfold.

Real quick, is this video? Can we show this real quick? All right, we'll try to get that for you a little later.

The problems in Baltimore have reawakened as well the tension and anger felt in Ferguson, Missouri. Authorities are keeping a very close eye on their community today and tonight after dozens of protesters hit the streets last night and into this morning. Police say at least two people were shot, but it's still not clear if those shootings were related to the protests. Scary nonetheless. Witnesses there say that some demonstrators, they were throwing rocks at police and even set fires in the streets, spinning out cars there as well. Officers are also arrested at least five suspects for looting.

And President Obama, he's speaking out again about what's happening in Baltimore. The nation's attention on this city right now. He praised police for showing restraint, ripped into the rioters, and also said there are better ways to address the root causes of the protest. Here's more of his interview with "The Steve Harvey Show". (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The kind of violence, looting, destruction that we saw from a handful of individuals in Baltimore, there's no excuse for that. That's not a statement. That's not politics. That's not activism. That's just criminal behavior. It's counterproductive because it hurts the very communities that are already suffering a tragedy with Freddie Gray's death.

STEVE HARVEY, HOST: Absolutely.

OBAMA: And disrespects the family. So my hope is that people heed the call of Mr. Gray's family in saying this is not what we want to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Hillary Clinton is also weighing in on Baltimore. A short time ago in a speech at Columbia University, she talked about Freddie Gray and other controversial deaths that have stirred tension over the last few months. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My heart breaks for these young men and their families. We have to come to terms with some hard truths about race and justice in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Clinton is using the speech to unveil some of her very first policy proposals since launching her presidential campaign. Today, focusing on reforms she would like to put in place for the criminal justice system. One change that Clinton is pushing for, she's calling on every police department in the country to use body cameras. That's been a very big topic.

It also seems to be something that has some bipartisan support. Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, he told CNN earlier today that body cameras would have explained exactly, in his words, what happened to Freddie Gray. He's proposing -- he's pushing for some of that. He's hoping to have some congressional hearings on the use of police body cameras.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, we're going to head right back to Baltimore. Did police get it right last night? What did they do? We're going to take a look at the effectiveness of their tactics. What's different and what they need to do today to keep the peace.

[11:14:56]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: I'm joined here by CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI Director Tom Fuentes and a clinical psychologist, Donna Saunders. Before I talk to them, I want to look at this picture right here. This

is a picture that's inspired so much hope here in Baltimore. A small boy giving police officers bottles of water on the streets. This picture symbolizes the police and the community coming together and that's what's needed here in this city. And that's why I'm joined by these two extraordinary people here with me right now.

And Tom, I want to start with you because last night we did see a moment of tension on the streets. We saw some protesters face to face with members of the law enforcement community but the cops handled it. So I want you to take a look at the picture of what happened there, tell me what you saw and what this means now for where we are going forward.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think the difference was that Monday night the police said we can only do one or the other; protect property or protect people. We don't have enough officers on the street to do both. And so the property was looted and some set on fire and fire trucks also took a bombardment and fire hoses cut.

All day yesterday there were many thousand additional police arrived and National Guard soldiers arrive and they were in the background ready to back up the police. So last night, what you saw, was a very measured, professional, disciplined police response with a great deal of assistance from community leaders and clergy in the community. But the police were able to be more measured knowing that there was this huge force to back them up if it went bad again.

BERMAN: Interesting. So as common as they were, as deliberate as they were, because they knew they had that backup in terms of the numbers of law enforcement and they also had the backup in the community. And Donna, that's why I wanted you to come here today.

[11:20:02] I was at a remarkable meeting that you were part of last night at the Empowerment Temple where clergy from all over the city gathered together to make a plan to go forward and you spoke in front of this group of people and you were making the case that they need to get on social media because that's where the kids are and to reach these kids.

And during that event last night that Tom was just talking about when police were face to face with protesters, you were sending out text messages to hopefully, at some point, that will reach thousands of people, perhaps thousands of kids and some of the messages, I was getting them on my phone, were saying, "Going home does not mean giving up." You also said, you know, this is not quitting. Stop to quit, basically. These messages, what difference can they make?

DONNA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: They can make a great difference. This is a power moment for our youth where they are coming to understand, No. 1, where their power is. There is a scripture that says a little child shall lead them and we're actually seeing that right at this point.

It's important to get across to our youth that you manage power properly and so that's why we have gotten these messages out and through texts we have had it so that people can subscribe by texting to the number 411, the word "powerup" where we can give these messages to them in the moment so that they are able to cope and make good choices.

BERMAN: So someone who is out in those protests last night, you're hoping that they feel their phone buzzing and take a look, see it and what?

SAUNDERS: Absolutely see it and make a change. Is that I should share that among the things is I have an acrostic for power that I want to say very quickly and that is that P stands for pure. Keep your motives pure. Own the opportunity. Take yourself seriously enough to say that this is my moment for change. W is have a whole understanding of what wrong is so that you're not just dealing with wrong from the outside but dealing with the wrong on the inside that I need to change. E is for earning. Earning and learning is part of how we manage power in a constructive way. And R is for executing your rights in a responsible way. We believe that in so doing, they will own their power and have a maximized moment.

BERMAN: Tom, messages like this, can they make a difference? You pointed to the community leaders last night as something that helps.

FUENTES: I think the leaders did help and I think these messages are very helpful. There's still always going to be, unfortunately for the police, that element that are out there that are going to be bad and we see that Baltimore averages five murders a week and has averaged that over the last almost stwo years and most of those murders as Commissioner Batts said a year ago, 95 percent of the victims are black and killed by other blacks. And so 632 murders over the last 27 months, those lives matter too. And that's part of the thing. And the people that are killing them, the gang members, are brutal, savage individuals. They are still out here.

BERMAN: They are. But hopefully with more positive messages, like the ones Donna is sending out, things can change.

FUENTES: That's what we hope.

BERMAN: Donna, Tom, thank you so much for being with us. "Power up" is the message that Donna has. Thanks, guys.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, straight out of the gate, she faces a huge test. How will the new U.S. Attorney General, Loretta lynch, handle the crisis in Baltimore? Big questions there. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:27:02] BOLDUAN: Happening now. What a difference a day makes. Baltimore public schools open once again. The streets of Baltimore relatively peaceful last night, even the notorious intersection near where Freddie Gray was arrested was calm.

President Obama speaking out once again about Monday's violence, again calling out protesters. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: A handful of people taking advantage of the situation for their own purposes and they need to be treated as criminals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Very quickly this has become the first major test for the president's attorney general. The newest Attorney General of the United States, Loretta Lynch. Remember the same day she was sworn in this week, Baltimore lit up in flames.

Let's discuss the federal role here and what that means for the attorney general. Jim Burch is joining us. He's a former deputy assistant attorney general. Jim, it's great to see you.

You spent more than 20 years with the Department of Justice. You kind of see how this is all playing out. This could really define Loretta Lynch's time in this post as it is definitely the first major challenge that she's up against straight out of the gate. What does Loretta Lynch need to do?

JIM BURCH, VICE PRESIDENT, STRATEGIC INITIATIVES, POLICE FOUNDATION: Thank you, Kate. Great to be with you. This is no doubt going to be a tough challenge for Attorney General Lynch and the administration and all of the professionals at the Department of Justice. But I am thoroughly convinced that they are up to this challenge. They've got some great folks there who have been doing this work for quite some time.

This is, as many folks have pointed out, this is really not a new phenomenon by any means and it's something that they have quite a bit of experience doing, they are engaged today in a number of communities around the country. Assistant Attorney General Gupta from the Civil Rights Division is very focused on this. She's very good at what she does. Has a great perspective about it. Loretta has a great team around her.

BOLDUAN: The previous attorney general, Eric Holder, he spoke out very forcefully, especially regarding the protests and the violence that happened in Ferguson, Missouri. But following that, he did face some criticism from police groups for not offering them enough support. That kind of is a way of showing that it is a very delicate balance when you are speaking as attorney general because you have different groups wanting to voice their opinions who are clearly on two very opposing sides of the issue at hand. How does she thread that needle?

BURCH: That's a great point. You're absolutely right. I think that when you have that bully pulpit, I think you have to be careful and thoughtful about how you approach these things. I think sometimes it's tempting to focus on the most presenting issue that we see, but there are many issues that are part of this.

[11:29:48] For example, the law enforcement officers who have been doing the best they can in Baltimore and last night did a phenomenal job showing restraint. We have to think about the position that they're in as well. Many of these folks have been working for two or three days straight without sleep in very tense and trying situations. So we have to think about all sides of this equation.