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At This Hour

New Discovery in Freddie Gray Case; Baltimore Police Press Conference. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 30, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: As Carol just mentioned, we are awaiting at this moment a press conference that was really just announced that will be happening at the Baltimore police headquarters on the ground there.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman.

As Kate said, the breaking news here in Baltimore, just across from where I'm stand right now is there will be a press conference with the commissioner of the police department here in Baltimore, Anthony Batts. The deputy commissioner will also be speaking. It will begin any minute now.

Now, the commissioner has been giving regular updates, but he does not deliver every news conference, and that has raised some speculation that there could be an important announcement within the next few minutes. We have thought that's the next investigative report that will be handed over to the state attorney, we thought that would be done tomorrow. Could that timeline be moved up? We will wait to hear that again, in minutes right now, behind that podium you are looking at.

So this community has been anticipating that report on what happened to Freddie Gray. Officials across the city, including at city hall right behind me, are trying to lower expectations that what is inside that report will actually provide answers about just how the 25-year- old suffered the spinal cord injury while he was in police custody. Authorities do say the internal investigation will remain sealed to protect the integrity of the findings in that investigation.

Now, while that's going on, new reports this morning, "The Washington Post" says a leaked police document quotes the only man inside the police transport with Freddie Gray, a prisoner, who was in the back of that transport with him. He says that Gray was banging against the walls of the van and this prisoner in the back believes that Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself. But it is important to note that the prisoner could only hear Gray, not see him, so how he came up with the notion that Gray was trying to injure himself, very much speculative at this point.

While that's going on, a relative of one of the officers involved in the arrest has talked to CNN. This relative says the officer believes that Gray was injured before he was put into the place van. So some conflicting views of how or when Freddie Gray may have been injured. Conflicting or maybe complimentary. We just don't know yet. That could be part of this police report that was due to be handed out tomorrow, but again, could have been handed over already. We just don't know yet. We are waiting to hear from that Baltimore police news conference. The commissioner slated to speak any moment. We will bring that to you the moment it comes.

While we're waiting, I want to bring in our justice correspondent, Evan Perez, who joins me right now in front of Baltimore city hall.

I suppose, Evan, let's get to the notion of the news conference and the timing of the investigation in a moment. First, let's talk about these new allegations that have surfaced overnight in "The Washington Post," the idea that there was this prisoner in the back of the van with Freddie Gray who believes that Gray was trying to injure himself.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, and this impression he gets from riding six blocks, six blocks between where he was picked up, at the tail end of this ride to the police station, and where he is taken to jail. This is the length of time they're together. And it's hard to know where he gets this impression that he was trying to harm himself. He can't see him. There's a metal divider between the two men.

And we should also mention that this prisoner is still in jail, when he was interviewed by police investigators, according to this document, obtained by "The Washington Post." So there's a lot of added questions here, really.

And it really just adds to the picture that, you know, what the state attorney's office will have to deal with here is a very complicated case. A lot of people made some judgments based on the few seconds of video that we've been showing, and certainly the public has reacted to. It's really not fair to make any conclusions based on just those few seconds of video.

BERMAN: No, but it does go to exactly how complicated it will be for them to make this case. I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world to CNN right now. We are awaiting a news conference from the commissioner of the Baltimore police department. That news conference slated to begin any minute and we will bring it to you the minute it happens. There is some speculation that there could be some news about this report that is to be handed over by the police department to the state attorney. So, Evan, explain to me exactly what this report is and isn't.

PEREZ: This report basically captures all the evidence that they have to date, John. This is something that frankly, I think, was ready -- it's already -- it's finished. And they have just set a date. They had set a deadline of May 1st to turn this over to the state attorney's office. And it's just a matter of making sure they had everything together and then they can turn it over.

It's basically a report that says, this is what we know so far based on the statements that were provided by five or six officers, this additional prisoner that was in the back of the van. We know that there's additional evidence that they've collected -- that the investigator have said able to collect. It does not, importantly enough, does not include the medical examiner's report, which is still is not completed. It's probably going to take weeks, perhaps even a couple of months, before that's done. They're going to look at talking to additional experts, as well as their own work, to try to determine what they believe is the cause of death. And that is going to be key for whatever decision the state attorney's office makes.

[11:05:25] BERMAN: And also crucial, Evan, that's what's in it and what's not in it. The other interesting thing about it, it may not be public today or tomorrow. Whatever is in that report may not be known to the public at large here within the next few days. And that could be controversial. I feel a lot of people in this city were expecting, perhaps they were told, it's fair to say, that they would be getting some answers soon.

PEREZ: That's right. And you know, being on the streets, especially over there at north and Pennsylvania, which has been the epicenter of some of the protests, you know, I talked to people who said to me, if we don't see cuffs on these officers on Friday, this place is going to burn again, and that's really an alarming thing. So the job here for the city, and for the police department is to sort of lower the expectations. I mean, this is not a normal case. You know, and in previous examples of this, we've seen maybe riots after a verdict is rendered. In this case, we're talking about two weeks after the incident.

BERMAN: And there is concern among the community, among the clergy, among elected officials here and also among police that when this report is out, it won't sly the public and it could lead to unrest.

I think it's about to start. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: -- the investigation into the tragic passing of Mr. Freddie Gray, he's joined by deputy commissioner, Kevin Davis, who is the deputy commissioner in charge of the Investigations and Intelligence Bureau. We will not be taking any questions at this press conference, as we have -- this is no longer our investigation. It would be inappropriate for us to do so.

Commissioner?

ANTHONY BATTS, COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Good morning. Please forgive my voice as it cracks.

At approximately 8:50 this morning, our task force charged with investigating the tragic death of Mr. Freddie Gray turned over the contents of this investigation to the state attorney's office. And in many of these cases that I've been in for three different police departments, one of the things that the families have always asked is how long is it going to take? Out of due care for the family, the citizens, the police officers, I set a date, not the mayor, I set a date to get this done. I was communicating, clearly, I wanted a sense of urgency on this case to get the results out there. We dedicated 30-plus detectives, their full-time job was focused on this case and only this case, including lab personnel and homicide detectives in our FIT Team. The family and the community and the public deserve transparency and truth. The task force heeded my call, and we have exhausted every lead at this point in time. But this does not mean that the investigation is over. Let me repeat, this does not mean that the investigation is over. If new evidence is found, we will follow it. If new direction is given by the state's attorney, we will obey it and we will follow through with the investigation. We will also further investigate at the request of the state attorney to bring forth any other witnesses that we find.

I understand the frustration, I understand the sense of urgency, and so has the organization, and that is why we have finished it a day ahead of time, meeting and foregoing my conclusions already. Also know that getting to the right answer is more important than speed. Making sure we look and overturn every rock is more important than just coming forth and giving a document. I know that the state's attorney is committed to seeing justice. And from this point on, we will take all directions from the state attorney, because it is now their case.

I will bring up Deputy Commissioner Kevin Davis to talk about the task force that he has.

KEVIN DAVIS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Good morning and thank you, Commissioner.

As the commissioner stated, we turned over the case this morning to the state's attorney office. However, that case remains very active and we're continuing to work around the clock.

Let me just walk you through the timeline once again. We went over this, but we have some new information to share with you. On the morning of April the 12th, the police encountered Freddie Gray along the 1,600 block of North Avenue, and that's when Freddie Gray ran from the police. We made an apprehension on the 1700 block of Pressberry. We stated earlier and confirming again today that the first stop of the wagon after the apprehension site was at Mount and Baker. The second stop has been revealed to us during the course of our investigation and was previously unknown to us. We discovered this new stop based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all CCTV cameras and privately owned cameras. And, in fact, this new stop has been -- was discovered from a privately owned camera. So the new stop by our wagon was at Freedmont (ph) and Mozer (ph). Again, that's new to us. And from there, the wagon stopped next at Druid Hill and Dolphin, then at North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue, to pick up an additional prisoner, and then the wagon arrived at the western district. From the western district, Mr. Gray was then transported to shock trauma, where he died a week later.

Our investigation continues. We continue to work in partnership with the state's attorney office. Major Stan Branford, our homicide commander, is leading this investigation of very talented folks who are working very hard not only for the police department, but for the city of Baltimore, and we look forward to additional progress in this case as time goes by.

Thank you. [11:11:12] UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: We're going to

continue -- we -- we will continue to do regular briefings throughout the day. They will be every 90 minutes to two hours, depending on events and depending on what is taking place during the rest of the day. We may increase those to every hour. Again, we are asking and hoping for peace in the city of Baltimore as we saw yesterday and the day before. That is the norm in the city and that is what we hope to see.

Thank you all very much.

BERMAN: OK. A surprising development here in Baltimore. We just heard from the police commissioner, Anthony Batts, as well as the deputy commissioner, Kevin Davis. And the news this morning, at 8:50 a.m., the police turned over their initial investigative report to the state attorneys. That report now in the hands of the state attorney here in Baltimore. We had expected that to be tomorrow. It was turned over a day early.

And within that report, some new information. A new stop, a new piece of the timeline into what happened with Freddie Gray, between the time that he, as the police say, ran from them in Baltimore, and the time he arrived a to the hospital. A new stop along the way.

I'm joined here in Baltimore, in front of the city hall, with our justice correspondent, Evan Perez. Also by State Senator Catherine Pugh, a majority leader here in the Maryland State Senate.

First, Evan, I want to talk to you. Two big developments. First, the report has been handed over, a day earlier than we thought. Second, this new stop, the van made a fourth stop that we did not know about in between, before it got to the police station. Explain.

PEREZ: You know, that's remarkable. Because this stop was captured, apparently, on private -- on private CCTV cameras. This is a surveillance video that was captured. And this is something that we did not know about. The police say that they did not know about until much more recently. Now, the idea that you would discover a new stop at this late stage, you know, we're talking about a couple weeks now into this, is really shocking, frankly, because, you know, the police should have an accurate count of everywhere that van stopped before taking these prisoners to jail. And the idea that on this daily, we are now learning of this new stop, is only going to add to the distrust that is already there in this community about how this investigation is going on. It's not fair, perhaps, to the investigators, but this has been a problem with this, with the city and with the police department, about releasing this kind of information. You don't want surprises like this, at this stage.

BERMAN: You know, we didn't know there was a stop, so we certainly don't know what happened at that stop right now.

Senator, what's your reaction to this news today?

SEN. CATHERINE PUGH, (D), MARYLAND: Again, let me just say, first, there is a federal investigation. I'm thankful we are having a federal investigation. I want Baltimore to take all of this in, but at least continue to peacefully protest in Baltimore, because we need correct information to learn that there was another stop. I mean, we would have thought that when we got the timeline, that that was already in the timeline. I'm also grateful for social media, because if we had not had that, we certainly would not have learned of this particular stop.

But more importantly, we want a transparent investigation. I'm glad that it is now in the hands of the state's attorney. I believe that she will move forward with this investigation. We all know when you're doing these kinds of criminal investigations, they do take time. But more importantly, we want the correct information out there to the public, so we can understand what the next steps are as it relates to this federal investigation.

I had a conversation with Congressman Cummings last night. He's had a conversation with Loretta Lynch, our new attorney general. She is very concerned about this case and has spoken out on this case. So we'll urge a full and thorough investigation. We need transparency. And that's part of what this is really about.

And this is systemic of many of the problems that many folks like Freddie Gray and black men, specifically, across this country, are facing. We want an end to this disrespect.

And I'm not sure what Freddie Gray did, but what we do know is what we saw on the tape, a man who was already hurt, obviously, screaming at the top of his lungs, asking for his medication. So I'm not trusting any other reports until I see a transparent report revealed to the community. And I'm asking the community to stick with me as we continue to move through this investigation and allow everything that needs to come out to come out, so that whoever needs to be indicted is properly indicted as a result of that.

[11:15:47] BERMAN: And you have been calling for patience.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: That is a huge concern here. I've been talking to members of the clergy, who have been in high schools, telling people, hey, when this report comes out, don't expect any answers, don't be upset if you don't learn anything. But now the report --

PUGH: But we have learned some things, as you well know.

BERMAN: Exactly. Now the report is turned over and we did learn about this new stop. Are you concerned with what the reaction will be today, tonight, tomorrow? And what are you going to do to temper expectations and to help people be, as you say, patient.

PUGH: What we've asked for is a clear, transparent investigation. And obviously, what we are getting is additional information, because we've requested transparency. But we can't put a timeline on this kind of information. As the police commissioner said, that was his timeline, and obviously, some more information has poured in. If we would have rushed for an investigation to come out, maybe we would not have learned of this investigation.

BERMAN: Quickly, it's interesting, by coming out day earlier, maybe they diffused a little bit of the tension.

PUGH: I absolutely approve of that move. If they would have come out a little earlier, I would have been even more grateful. I want to thank them, all of the men, the football coaches in the city, the Nation of Islam, the ministerial community, and the community, specifically. I saw gang members last night and the night before asking community folks, be at peace, let's leave on time, let's observe the curfew. But I'm also concerned about the businesses in this community are suffering as a result of this. But, you know, the economic development issues, race relations, that's a conversation that America needs to have. And I'm looking forward to that conversation.

PUGH: Thank you.

BERMAN: We'll let you get of you have here and continue to have that conversation.

Majority leader, thanks so much.

PUGH: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Evan Perez, thanks so much. Stick around, there's a lot more to talk about.

Kate, you're going to continue the conversation in New York.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Thank you, John, so much.

Let's bring in -- let's continue this discussion with former Maryland State police, Major Neil Franklin. He's joining us out of Washington right now. As well as CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Danny Cevallos, joining me here in New York.

A lot to discuss, not only the fact that the report we were going to be discussing, I was going to ask you, what do you think will be in the report, but the news that's coming out with this press conference, Danny, the fact that they turned over the report to the city's chief prosecutor. They call the state's attorney, a day early. Is that significant, do you think, in this process?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not in that if it was a day later, would it make that much of a difference, but sooner, I think, is better for public satisfaction, because they want to see answer as soon as possible. It sounds like from the press conference, they have a tremendous amount of resources devoted to this, some 30-some-odd detectives. That is in police land, a lot of police power, working of the case. So I would expect things to move relatively quickly, with that much, with those resources devote to the cause.

BOLDUAN: And also, it was a relatively short press conference. They said they weren't going to be taking any questions, because they said, this is no longer our investigation since it's been turned over. But they took time to point out one thing, which I think is surprising to me and I think our viewers want to know more about. They said, we didn't previously know and have uncovered that the police van made another stop. That they had not known about before. Why bring that up in this press conference. What could that mean, because they didn't give us anymore detail beyond that?

CEVALLOS: An additional unexplained spot raises the specter without actually making the allegation that something happened at a stop, the kind of thing that wasn't recorded or put in a report or otherwise made known. So if there's an additional stop and it's for a coffee that could explain away the stop, if it's very brief. On the other hand, if there's a stop that wasn't reported because something happened that people didn't want others to know about, that might be another reason. And that's a more nefarious reason. But believe me, that additional stop is very, very pregnant with potential information. And I think in the coming days, we're going to see someone try to come up with an explanation for what that was.

BOLDUAN: And, Major Franklin, join in on this, because the fact that they held a very short press conference to announce that this investigation has been handed over, but did take the time in this brief press conference to point out this previously unknown stop, that does give it some significance. What do you read in it?

MAJ. NEIL FRANKLIN, FORMER MARYLAND STATE POLICE OFFICER: It really does. This is a significant piece of information. First of all, it was a smart move to come out early with this investigation, to let everyone know what's going on with this investigation, that it's going to Marilyn Mosby, the state attorney's office, for further investigation. One important thing about the report of this additional stop is that somebody knows. They need to come forward with that information, if they know about it. I guarantee some citizens probably saw it, maybe there's some other available video footage of that stop, and it would eventually come out.

One thing that's very interesting to me is that many years ago, when we started having police accidents in the city of Baltimore, we were talking about technology of GPS being able to track our police vehicles throughout the city. Our delivery trucks today know exactly where each and every one of their trucks are, when they stop, how long they stop. We should have that also in policing.

And I just have one more quick comment, regarding this additional information that came out, reported by "The Washington Post," this leaking document, you know, from somewhere within the police department, about the other passenger who was in the van. You know, that's part of the investigation. The interview of that passenger is part of the investigation. But let me tell you something else that needs to be investigated. The way that interview was conducted needs to be investigated. The questions that were asked of this person, who was also in the van, the manner in which these questions were asked on that interview. Were they leading questions? That needs to be peeled back as well. What exactly could he see, what could he hear? Because that's a very important piece of information. And that interview is going to be crucial. I just hope that it was conducted in a proper manner.

[11:21:51] BOLDUAN: And also, because it does -- that interview, taken in conjunction with the other interviews that have come out, there is a confusing picture and a conflicting picture that has been painted. This is why this all manners.

And, Danny, I want you to speak to this, because people have been following this. But this gets to the question of, when did, how did this mysterious fatal injury occur? There's some suggestion from this unidentified prisoner coming from "The Washington Post," the unidentified prisoner that was also in the wagon, saying that what this prisoner could hear, couldn't see, was that he intentionally -- it sounded like Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself in the wagon we've also heard a different picture painted that what occurred happened before he was taken into the wagon. The big question is, how did this mysterious fatal injury occur while in police custody? Why did Freddie Gray have to die? When did this violent fracture occur? And this is why this all gets to this. Why does this matter, then, when you take in conjunction with what we just found out. That there is this previously unannounced stop, undiscovered stop, that they're just now getting into. This plays into this key question, right?

CEVALLOS: It does, because a self-inflicted injury isn't necessarily going to absolve the officers of any liability. Officers can still be held liable for a detainee's self-inflicted injury, if they know that he had reason to have suicidal tendencies or that he wanted to hurt himself. And of course, that raises the question, if someone's banging their head against a wall, isn't that enough notice that they were trying to hurt themselves?

But it's very important again to echo what was just said, is that you find out about that eyewitness that we're hearing about, that may have heard him banging his head against the wall. How was he questioned? Was the police asking leading questions? An example of that was, hey, buddy, he was definitely banging his head against the wall, wasn't he? You sort of see how that would yield information that would be favorable to the police.

But at all of these stages, it's critical to understand what the stop was, if there's anything being hidden or if it's for something completely innocent and what exactly was going on in that car. Because it is possible still to hold officers -- although it's difficult -- to hold officers liable for even self-inflicted injuries if officers knew that the arrestee was likely to hurt himself.

BOLDUAN: While we are getting more information, it creates more questions, and we'll have to continue this conversation. Now we have learned about this previously unknown stop, but what happened within that time, why was this stop unknown before. More questions coming into play, a lot more focus now going to be on what could be in this report that, obviously, as of yet, is now being made public as it's handed, now the investigation is handed over the to the state's attorney.

Danny Cevallos, thank you very much. Major Neil Franklin, thank you so much. Major, we'll continue this

conversation and all the breaking news coming out of Baltimore ahead in just a minute.

Now that the police have handed over their report to prosecutors, will the community get the answers that they're demanding and all of the new questions that are being raised? One man is now reaching out to students, especially, trying to help prepare them for what might not and might not come out in light of all of this news. This is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:58:39] BERMAN: All right. Some surprising developments here in Baltimore this morning, as this community and officials look for answers into what happened to Freddie Gray. Just a few minutes ago, we learned that an investigative report from the police has been turned over to the state attorney's office here, a day before we thought it would be. That report handed over a day early and there was another key piece of information. But first, let's hear from the commissioner, Anthony Batts, what about what is in that report and what will still happen. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BATTS: This does not mean that the investigation is over. If new evidence is found, we will follow it. If new direction is given by the state's attorney is given, we will obey it. We will also further investigate at the "request of the state attorney to bring forth any other witnesses that we find. I understand the frustration, I understand the sense of urgency, and so has the organization and that is why we have finished it a day ahead of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So in addition to the surprising news that the report was finished a day ahead of time and turned over a day ahead of time, the revelation that there was an additional stop in the timeline between when Freddie Gray was first picked up by police and arrived back at the police station, an additional stop that they only learned about, apparently, according to the deputy police commissioner, by looking at private surveillance camera with the neighborhood.

I'm joined now to discuss all these developments by Pastor Jamal Bryant, who is head of Empowerment Temple in Baltimore.