Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

New Police Van Stop Discovered in Freddie Gray Death; Freddie Gray Family Wants Answers; Baltimore Ravens' Ray Lewis' Passionate Speech; A Look at Freddie Gray. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired April 30, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So in addition to the surprising news that the report was finished a day ahead of time and turned over a day ahead of time, the revelation that there was an additional stop in the timeline between when Freddie Gray was first picked up by police and arrived back at the police station, an additional stop that they only learned about, apparently, according to the deputy police commissioner, by looking at private surveillance camera with the neighborhood.

I'm joined now to discuss all these developments by Pastor Jamal Bryant, who is head of Empowerment Temple in Baltimore.

You've been so involved with the community from the very beginning and so involved in the last 25 hours about tempering expectations and creating real expectations about what would or would not be in this report. I want your reaction to what we just learned.

JAMAL BRYANT, PASTOR, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE: I'm amazed that the commissioner saying people are being impatient, when we he doesn't understand, he set the stage, as the producer and director, by saying that it would be released on May the 1st. And now for you to come the day before and say, it's finished early, but I'm not going to tell you, the high schoolers that I've been talking to over the last two days are absolutely frustrated and their confidence level is absolutely shot. They don't believe that Mr. Gray was hurting himself in the van. And this additional stop lends credence to their suspicion that something is absolutely off track. And so for the police to just give out little parcels of information, I believe it's absolutely irresponsible and overwhelmingly dangerous.

BERMAN: We heard this news five or 10 minutes ago.

BYRANT: Right.

BERMAN: You've been standing here, and I heard you talking to other members of the community. What's the reaction been that you heard and what are you going to do over the next few hours? Are you concerned about what people like you do later today and tomorrow?

BRYANT: I was not. Yesterday, I had a glimmer of hope, but that silver lining is beginning to tarnish into bronze. And I'm hoping that the police will not just give bits and pieces of information, but if you're going to disclose, you cannot pick and choose. Give us anything or don't give us anything. And I think right now, setting a very bad precedent, and I'm gravely disappointed by the commissioner's handling of it, publicly, because it's very reckless for what it is we're trying to do.

BERMAN: Well, they've tried to make clear over the last 24 hours that they're not going to go public with everything or with much. We just learned about this new stop today, but they're not going to go public with much. And are you working, then, with people in the community here to make them understand that or to at least express their frustrations over that in a peaceful way?

BRYANT: I am. Two things we have to do, number one, is a community somehow or another misinterpreted, albeit falsely, that the commissioner's initial response was that May 1st, in their ears --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: That's what they heard.

BRYANT: They weren't hearing a report on May 1st. They were looking for an indictment. And so really, going back and backtracking, understanding what their process is.

Secondly, they're giving that with no secondary date or giving me a false hope really talks a complete turndown in understanding of a system, they already have questions, doubts, in the absence of trust.

So we've got a lot of work to do in the next 24 hours, because a whole lot of people in the community are looking for something tangible on May 1st and it doesn't look like the government is going to give it to them.

BERMAN: It came out April 1st, first of all. It came out April 30th. That report has been handed over, and what we were told was not much, other than the fact of this additional stop. You have a peaceful demonstration planned Sunday?

BRYANT: Two. We have one at Sunday on 2:00. The entire faith community is coming. But tomorrow at 3:30, we're going to do a human chain around the Baltimore city jail to bring the focus back to criminal justice, the inequity of sentencing, and the place where we want those six officers to be housed. This is, in fact, going to be a monumental turning point in our movement tomorrow afternoon. We are absolutely speaking directly against any acts of violence, but we want our voices to be heard, but we want the messaging to be clear.

BERMAN: Pastor, you have your work cut out for you over the next few days. You've been so busy. We wish you the best of luck.

BYRANT: Thank you. Please pray for our city.

BERMAN: Thank you very much, Pastor.

BYRANT: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate? KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely, John. So you've got the

pastor, John, he's talking about trying to work with students and all the people on the ground to keep the violence, keep the focus on bringing about justice, not violence.

But I got to tell you -- and you were asking the right questions -- now there are so many new questions raised with that very brief press conference coming from Baltimore police on exactly what does it mean that they're announcing, without any further detail, this previously unknown stop. You can be sure it's just raising more questions in their mind, don't you think?

BERMAN: Absolutely.

And the pastor is here with me now. The fact that this new stop, your reaction to the news, there was this new stop, are you concerned about what might have happened there? We just don't know.

BRYANT: We don't know, but clearly it cancels out the earlier story that they leaked out that we believe is a Walt Disney interpretation, that some anonymous other person who was in the van heard him banging his head, but not giving us any detail. And then they're giving this testimony, under a shrouded persona that we can't see who it is. And for them to leak it to "The Washington Post" and not here at "The Baltimore Sun," even though this is where the investigation took place, really gives us a lot of discontent.

[11:35:03] BERMAN: The pastor is talking about a report in "The Washington Post" that suggests there was a prisoner in the back of the van saying that he believed that Freddie Gray injured himself somehow.

I think the point you're making is that in the absence of evidence and information, it creates speculation, and that is what is happening right now and will continue to happen if we don't learn more, which it doesn't sound like we will immediately.

BYRANT: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Pastor, thank you.

BYRANT: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate?

BOLDUAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, some of the folks that want answers desperately would be the family of Freddie Gray. An attorney for Freddie Gray's family will be joining us and we'll get their reaction to this new account of what possibly happened inside that police van, why previously unknown stop was just announced.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. The breaking news here in Baltimore, two major developments, surprising developments, in the investigation into what happened to Freddie Gray. Number one, the investigative report was turned over from the police to the state's attorney a day earlier than we thought. And number two, we learned, through an announcement by the deputy commissioner, that the van that was carrying Freddie Gray made an additional stop, one more stop than they had previously told us.

Let's listen to the deputy commissioner lay out this new timeline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN DAVIS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: The first stop of the wagon after the apprehension site was at Mount and Baker. The second stop has been revealed to us during the course of our investigation and was previously unknown to us. We discovered this new stop based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all CCTV cameras and privately owned cameras. And, in fact, this new stop has been -- was discovered from a privately owned camera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:40:13] BERMAN: This new stop was discovered from a privately owned camera. What does that mean?

Let's talk about this with Andrew O'Connell. He's an attorney for the family of Freddie Gray.

Thanks so much for being with us.

Really interesting, this new stop we hadn't been told about it. The police had previously laid out a timeline about what happened to Freddie Gray, when they say he was running between that point and when he got to the police station. Now they say that a privately owned security camera picked up footage of this additional stop. What do you make of that?

ANDREW O'CONNELL, ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY FAMILY: This time line that the police have been discussing is a moving target. It has changed over time. What I would like to know and what we have been asking for from the beginning are the radio runs that are recorded during these stops. Wherever a police officer makes a stop, they are supposed to radio it in. Those are recorded in this building right over my right shoulder. We haven't seen those. Those are usually the best way to get an accurate picture of what happened during an arrest event, whether it was supplemented by a privately owned camera, I don't know. We haven't seen the report.

BERMAN: Why would it take a privately owned camera? Why couldn't you learn that information from the police themselves or the communications going back and forth?

O'CONNELL: If I had an opportunity to review those radio runs, I would know. But at this point, we haven't had an opportunity to see the report. And as we've seen, this time line has been changing over time.

BERMAN: All right. Other information that came out overnight, new allegations, "The Washington Post" produced this report that said that there was another prisoner in the back of the van with Freddie Gray and this prisoner had the belief that Freddie was somehow trying to injure himself.

O'CONNELL: Right. With regard to that, it's nothing more than a rumor right now about these statements that were made, apparently in an application for a search warrant. I haven't seen that, so I can't comment on it. I would like to know all the facts before I get an opportunity to comment on it. But it just begs the question, we need more information. We would like to see the report. Because the rumor just raises more questions, you know, under what context was the statement made. He was obviously a prisoner --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: This guy's a prisoner, right?

O'CONNELL: -- right, of the Baltimore City Police Department at the time he made it. How many people were questioning him?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: It also doesn't get to anything that happened before Freddie Gray got in the van.

O'CONNELL: What do we know? What we've seen on the tape is several police officers jumping on this man's back, him screaming in pain, and then being dragged away like a rag doll with his legs dangling beneath him. That's what I know.

BERMAN: What about Freddie Gray's condition before? There are a lot of conditions, people speculating he had some sort of back injury previously.

O'CONNELL: I have no information and nothing to base the -- or no basis that he had any sort of previous injury to his back. From what I know and from what we know is that he was a healthy 25-year-old man at the time he was arrested.

BERMAN: The police commissioner, just moments ago, said, one of the reasons they came out with this information early is to try to help the family get the answers as quickly as they can. Are you satisfied right now with your relationship with officials here in the city?

O'CONNELL: Right now, I haven't seen the report. I understand that the mayor is doing the best that she can to try to diffuse a very difficult situation. We don't control the narrative with regard to this report. The police do. It's now in the hands of the state's attorney and we hope that she gives it every attention that it needs.

BERMAN: Andrew O'Connell, great to have you here with us AT THIS HOUR. Appreciate your time. And good luck in the days ahead.

O'CONNELL: Thank you. BERMAN: All right. A lot more information that's been coming

out just over the last few minutes here in Baltimore. We'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:31] BOLDUAN: Welcome back, everyone. AT THIS HOUR, still following the breaking news out of Baltimore. At the top of the hour, the Baltimore police, they held a press conference, a very brief press conference. In that press conference, we learned two important things. One, the Baltimore Police Department has turned over the investigation into the death of Freddie Gray over to the city's chief prosecutor. That was an important step that everyone watching this situation closely was waiting to see. They've turned that investigation over. They did not announce any charges. They didn't announce any details, really, of that investigation, or of that police report, and no timeline of what happens now. They did announce, though, that that investigation has been turned over.

One additional detail, though, that did come out, that is now raising many more questions is the fact that the police announced a previously unknown stop by the police van carrying Freddie Gray -- that they discovered in the course of their investigation. They called it -- they discovered a new stop that they turned up on private security camera footage that they had not known previously. No more details. They simply then walked away from cameras to continue on. They said that their investigation, though, does continue, but it does raise a whole host of new questions about what exactly what happened to Freddie Gray, where did he sustain that fatal injury. We're going to continue that coverage, obviously, on the ground in Baltimore.

But this is also happening AT THIS HOUR on the ground in Baltimore. Former NFL star, Ray Lewis, he is there. Just moments ago, he spoke to students at Frederic Douglass High School. The Baltimore Ravens' linebacker, he gave a passionate speak to the linebackers there.

Our national correspondent, Ryan Young, he was right there on- site. He spoke with Lewis after the event. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY LEWIS, FORMER BALTIMORE RAVENS LINEBACKER: Stop talking about old Baltimore, old Baltimore. This is a world problem. Detroit, number-one crime rate in the world two years back to black. We have these young black kids killing each other like it's going out of style, like it's a video game, man. And we have to teach them, stop killing each other!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:59:36] BOLDUAN: Ray Lewis trying to give an impassioned speech to keep those kids from getting back on the streets and creating violence. He spoke to those kids at Frederick Douglass High School. He's someone that a lot of folks are saying who could really have some influence on the situation there, because of his stature and his long history in loving the city of Baltimore.

Much more of our coverage on Baltimore and the simmering tension there right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So many questions about the injuries that ultimately took Freddie Gray's life. His last hour, still so very cloudy, even after the news that the investigative report was just handed over to the state attorney's office.

So we don't know what happened to him right at the end, but we do know a lot more now about the 25 years that led up to this death. And his story is an important one here in this community. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

BERMAN (voice-over): Before America heard his name chanted in the streets --

(CHANTING)

BERMAN: -- before his own cries echoed across newsreels --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: -- and spurred riots across the city --

(CHANTING)

BERMAN: -- Freddie Gray was struggling to make a life for himself here and building a long rap sheet along the way.

(on camera): This right here was a home that Freddie Gray lived in towards the end of his life. People in the neighborhood say he didn't grow up here. He'd been here for about a year or so. They said he came and went all the time, always said hello, seemed like a nice guy they say. Never saw a sign of trouble.

(voice-over): But "The Baltimore Sun" reports Gray's life was marked by financial hardship from the very beginning. His mother and stepfather raised Freddie and his siblings in a home so squalid they won a settlement over lead paint exposure. It is an issue in older homes here that can cause brain damage.

JEAN MARBELLA, REPORTER, THE BALTIMORE SUN: According to the court documents, crumpling lead paint, holes in the wall, lots of dots that were suspected or it contaminated with lead. They made the connections to problems he ultimately had in school. He was put in special-ed classes. His sisters testified that they had to repeat grades.

BERMAN: His mother has given only brief statements to the media.

GLORIA DARDEN, MOTHER OF FREDDIE GRAY: Don't tear up the whole city, man, just for him.

BERMAN: Family and friends tell CNN she lost a son to violence just 18 months before Freddie's death.

UNIDENTIFIED FAMILY FRIEND: It hurt my heart to know that she lost one son due to street violence and another due to police brutality.

BERMAN: But her own deposition I 2009-led paint lawsuit revealed much more.

MARBELLA: His mother spoke about never getting passed middle school. She said she has never been able to read, and she was not able to help her children with their homework passed a certain level.

BERMAN: She also testified at the time that she was getting treatment for a daily heroin habit. A long list of drug-related arrests show her son was no stranger to narcotics either. His brother-in-law says the drug business helped Gray support his family.

UNIDENTIFIED BROTHER-IN-LAW OF FREDDIE GRAY: When people come to buy narcotics or gamble or anything with they money in they hand and they put it in your hand, what makes you so bad? He had responsibilities. Responsibilities don't stop because you don't have a job.

[11:55:11] BERMAN: In some Baltimore neighborhoods, a life like Freddie Gray's is all too familiar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want justice for all the future Freddie Gray's out here.

BERMAN: His death is a fate his fellow residents don't want to fear.

(CHANTING)

BERMAN: So they're using his name in an effort for change.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You know, that was the message that I got as I walked through the neighborhoods where he lived yesterday, Kate, was that people wanted to make sure I knew that the type of life he led and the struggles he faced not unique here in Baltimore. And these are the things that need to be addressed going forward.

BOLDUAN: That's why you see that it's touched off just this wave of anger and outrage in the aftermath of his death. But now when we look at the news today, John, that really just popped up, so many more questions that all these folks are going to have. The investigation's been handed over. Where does the investigation go from here? When are the Gray family and all of these protesters, and all of those people that you talked to, when will they get answers, even if they don't like what the answer is? When are they going to get the answers?

BERMAN: Yeah, and all the officials around me have been on the phone for the last half hour trying to figure out where to go the rest of today and the next few days -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yeah, a lot of developments AT THIS HOUR.

John, it's great to see you.

John's in Baltimore. He'll be there for us.

We're going to say thank you for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

We are going to continue our coverage from Baltimore. Ashleigh Banfield is there. "LEGAL VIEW" starts right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:06] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield, coming to you live from Baltimore. This is "LEGAL VIEW."

Behind --