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At This Hour

Baltimore State Attorney Announces Officers Charged; Baltimore Residents React to Charges Against Officers. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 01, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you worried about the appearance of any conflict of interest?

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE STATE ATTORNEY: I don't see an appearance of conflict of interest. My husband is a public servant. He works on the legislative side. I'm a prosecutor and also a public servant. I uphold the laws. He makes the laws.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: I will prosecute any case within my jurisdiction.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: I can't answer that question.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us about the independent investigators that assisted in this case and why you brought them in?

MOSBY: I thought it was important to have an independent analysis as to what took place and transpired from the beginning. We are an independent agency from the police department.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What needs to be done to make sure that what happened to Freddie Gray doesn't happen again?

MOSBY: Accountability.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you get that?

MOSBY: You're getting it today.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: Ask me your question one more time.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Talk about the resources you had independently of the police department.

MOSBY: I can tell you, as I stated, a number of investigators. It's been all hands-on approach from the very beginning. So I sent my investigators out to the scene. We have a number of them who are right here. We have a working collaboration working with the Baltimore sheriff's department who has police powers and, again, independent from the Baltimore City Police Department so, yes, we have leveraged the police investigation but at no point did we compromise our own independent investigation into this case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A few more questions and that's it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think it's important to change the rights police have right now where they have 10 days to not talk to anybody?

MOSBY: I can't give you my opinion on that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last question.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: You have to speak to Commissioner Batts.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you spoken with him.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: I've spoken with Commissioner Batts, I've spoke with the mayor, I've spoke with the governor, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

MOSBY: I spoke with the governor. I spoke with the commissioner. You'd have to ask him.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us about the officers' background? Did they have any previous complaints --

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: I can't do that.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: Again, we have to be mindful that this is still an ongoing investigation and I can't -- I have to be mindful of what can come out at this point.

Thank you all very much.

(CROSSTALK)

MOSBY: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman here in Baltimore. I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Kate Bolduan joins me in New York.

What you just saw was a surprise to this city and frankly probably the entire country. States attorney Marilyn Mosby, who directs prosecution here in the city of Baltimore, has determined that the death of Freddie Gray was a homicide and there is probable cause to press charges against the six police officers who dealt with him more than 10 days ago. A warrant has now been issued for the arrest of those six officers on charges that range as high as manslaughter. Basically murder charges are being filed against some of these officers.

And more than that. The states attorney painted a picture of gross negligence, malpractice by these police. They say they had no cause to arrest Freddie Gray in the first place. And then when he came into their custody, there was a pattern of negligence and mistreatment that led to his death. The actual death caused by being unrestrained while he was shackled and handcuffed in the back of that police van. When the states attorney, Marilyn Mosby, read that information she'll be pressing information against those officers, there were audible cries here in the square in front of city hall. Her news conference just about a hundred yards away from where I am standing right now.

Ashleigh Banfield was there for that remarkable bit of information from the states attorney -- Ashleigh?

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, LEGAL VIEW: I am astounded at hearing this level of information, this degree of progress in this investigation and this action. I never expected for a moment that this would happen today, that probable cause would be found and announced and arrest warrants would go out. I'm just going to quickly -- this was tough writing this down fast while juggling microphones, et cetera. This was tough. I'll tell you. I believe that Officer Porter, one of the six, is actually charged with second-degree murder.

Excuse me. Officer Goodson charged with second-degree murder. That person is the driver of the van. There is a list of charges that followed that for Officer Goodson, involuntary manslaughter, second- degree arson, negligent manslaughter, misconduct while in office and failure to render aid. A long list for all the officers. Officer Porter, involuntary manslaughter as well as second-degree assault and misconduct in office. Officer Rice, involuntary manslaughter, assault. See what she wrote, real quickly, missing a couple.

I'll bring in Evan Perez. He got that faster than I did.

Thank god they handed out the document. I was writing so quickly. But I think it's critical that Officer Goodson got depraved-heart murder. That's the most serious charge among them.

Evan Perez, I don't know how you process that amount of information that we just took in from the states attorney. I don't think I have seen something that fast against that many parties.

[11:05:20] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. The interesting thing here is that charges, Ashleigh, all relate to the lacking probable cause to make the arrest.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: That's for three officers who got the charge of false imprisonment. PEREZ: That's correct. And the failure to render aid to Freddie Gray

despite all of the signs that he was suffering and that he was having medical issues and that he needed a medic and was not provided with one. For the people on the streets who wanted murder charges against these officers, obviously there's some disappointment on that.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They got one. They got one second-degree depraved heart murder. The driver of the van is being targeted here. The focus of what happened to Freddie and why Freddie died is really heading toward the officer. Officer Caesar Goodson Jr is facing six charges. Brian Rice is also facing six charges. The highest is involuntary manslaughter. There's a couple others. There's Officer White as well.

EVANS: Right.

BANFIELD: Officer Alicia White is the only female that I believe is in this list. She sort of came in at the end of this whole process. She did not according to the states attorney render enough aid where this went on for over a half hour.

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: Again, made the additional stop that police learned about on Friday and that had not been previously disclosed. He did not report that additional stop according to the police.

BANFIELD: Interestingly, one other thing that we learned about these stops, which I found really remarkable in terms of the volume of information and detail that Marilyn Mosby gave us is I believe she said it was Officer Goodson who came out and actually placed Freddie Gray face down lying on his stomach in the van and then continued the routes he went, and ultimately picked up the other prisoner. I think the focus right now is, so far, on Caesar Goodson because of the six different times that Marilyn Mosby said this van stopped, Freddie Gray was either assessed, cuffed, put back in the van without medical assistance that he needed and ultimately put back in the van in ways that could be determined to be very dangerous, stomach down with his head facing the rear of the van.

EVANS: The van, that's correct. Not only that but stopping all of those times and not checking on him and not checking on him and not providing --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Checking on him but not doing anything about it --

EVANS: Not doing anything about it.

BANFIELD: -- with the check saying the checks were made but medical assistance was not rendered. These charges are just remarkable. Every single one of these officers is either facing murder, manslaughter -- these are just top charges, murder, manslaughter, assault in the second degree and then also assault in the second degree for Officer Miller and manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter for Alicia White.

It is a very hectic scene with city officials and media, protesters --

(CROSSTALK)

EVANS: People from the community who were cheering and who said yes when she announced she was bringing these charges. It's also interesting to me, Ashleigh, that she made a point of saying that she was not relying solely on the police investigation. She brought in outsider including apparently people from the Baltimore sheriff's office to help conduct her independent investigation. She wasn't relying on it. It was helpful that they provided that information to her yesterday but it wasn't the thing.

BANFIELD: Won't the only thing.

John, that was critical. How much could you have read through and incorporated into your decision and it looked like her independent investigation didn't leave anything out and she felt the police investigation was information she already knew. John, let me just tell you she wrapped up that news conference saying to the youth of this community. This is critical. Nobody wants this to blow up again on the streets of Baltimore. She wants to seek justice for them and she called this your moment. I'm going to toss it back to you. I want to find out. We have something happening beside us.

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks so much.

We'll look into the community reaction, what they now think since they have heard this news, which broke just moments ago. Charges being filed against the six officers who dealt with Freddie Gray more than 10 days ago. Charges ranging all of the way up to second-degree murder.

I have this bit of information. The arraignment for these six police officers will happen today in Mitchell courthouse in downtown Baltimore. These officers may be given the option of appearing remotely by video news conference. Warrants now have been issued for their arrest. Again, the charges range from basic negligence all of the way to second-degree murder.

I'm joined here by our legal analyst, Sunny Hostin. I'm also joined by State Senator Catherine Pugh, who is the majority leader of the State Senate in Baltimore.

Sunny, let me start with you. Let me get your legal reaction.

The mantra here was patience. We won't get information any time soon. This was the opposite of wait and see in some ways. This was we're pressing charges right now. We know enough to know that these officers, the state prosecutor says, we know enough to know they behaved improperly.

[11:10:38] SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We needed a decisive prosecutor on this matter and we got what we need. I have never seen a prosecutor outline a case like this in such detail with such transparency and I am really thrilled quite frankly that she handled it in this way. This is what the nation needs. Her reaction to this and her transparency should be looked at by all in her position. She had an independent investigative team working on this from the beginning.

John, and Senator, you know that I have been an advocate for independent investigators because as a former prosecutor myself, I know how very difficult it is to ask your officers to investigate their own. So the fact that from the first day she had her own investigative team handling this is why we have that report right now and why we have the charges now.

BERMAN: To that point, we learned over the last several minutes in the last day that much of what we were told by police has turned out not to be true. We have been told it was a switchblade in his possession. That's why he was arrested. He did not have a switchblade. The blade he had was legal. No grounds for arrest. Up until yesterday, we didn't know about this extra stop in front of that Korean grocery. Now we know that. There's new information coming out by the investigation from this states attorney that we did not know before.

Sunny, hang on for one moment.

I want to get your reaction, Senator.

STATE SEN. CATHERINE PUGH, (D), BALTIMORE: I don't think anybody in the country will question Marilyn Mosby's age at this stage of the game.

BERMAN: 35 years old.

PUGH: 35. But Baltimore elected her. She got right on it. I love the fact that she did an independent investigation and I think she's given voice to the community. She's let people here what needs to be heard. She's been transparent. The conduct of these officers is indicative of what's happening around the country and again had there not been for some of the social media and so forth, we would not know what we know today. The independent cameras out there providing the community and the police department and certainly the states attorney who said she had the information that everybody saw being delivered on yesterday.

So I think that this in some way satisfies the community. It also outrages us that something like this can continue to occur. This is systemic of things that are happening around the nation and what we're talking about is the need for police reform and for them to understand that we pay them to protect and serve and not to attack our community. This is one thing that has taken place. I think what has happened is this begins to ignite the conversation that you were talking about that needs to take place throughout this nation about having these opinions of what you see when you look at people of color and prejudging what they're doing and what they're saying. One of the things I said from the very first is why did they stop him in the first place and what kind of charges could they possibly bring and now we know that the stop -- what they arrested him for was not even legal.

BERMAN: Based on what she said, even had Freddie Gray survived, she paints a picture of a pattern of behavior that's not acceptable for police officers. That's according to her --

PUGH: Any where. Any where.

BERMAN: At this stage right now, what do you think? It's been a mere few minutes right now. What do you think reaction will be? Several marches already planned for this afternoon. Will it be relief?

PUGH: I think there will be relief but people will continue to demonstrate peacefully because what this is showing the world is this is something that's just not happening here in Baltimore. You have seen the protests in Philadelphia and New York, Denver, all around the nation. Unfortunately for Freddie, he becomes a symbol of what needs to take place in terms of transition that police departments ought to be making.

One of the things I continue to advocate for is that we do psychological testing on these police officers who are in the streets and who become incenprejudge those in our neighborhoods. We can't have these things continuing. This is systemic of issues around the nation and when you look in these communities, you can't prejudge the people. I heard a gentleman talking about folks in the ghetto. You can't prejudge people because they live in a certain area. That does not mean they are unlawful people.

[11:15:10] BERMAN: Quickly, Sunny, a quick answer here. Was it too fast? There have been such a message of patience over the last few days, there will be people that say hang on, if we were supposed to wait and let the process work its course, did she come to the decision too quickly?

HOSTIN: I don't think so. People will be critical. It's clear that she conducted an independent investigation and her investigation was confirmed by the police department investigation and she also has the report from the medical examiner. As a prosecutor, I often wonder why it takes months and months and months to come to a conclusion. If you are a good prosecutor, if you have a thorough investigation, and if you also trust your investigators, there is no need to have several- month's long investigation. If you look at the South Carolina case, that officer was charged very, very quickly.

BERMAN: I want to get reaction from the law enforcement community.

Kate Bolduan is in New York for that -- Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: John, thank you so much.

We'll continue our breaking news coverage as we continue this conversation.

Let me bring in our players and our analysts and experts who are going to be discussing this. Here in studio, Mel Robbins, CNN legal analyst; and Tom Verny, former NYPD detective. Tom Fuentes is joining us from Washington, OUR CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director. And I believe we have also Marc Lamont Hill, CNN commentator, joining us live from Los Angeles.

A lot to digest, everyone. Let's take this piece by piece.

Mel, first to you.

We had the opportunity in that press conference it came out quick, fast and surprising these charges against these officers. We've had a second to digest what they are now charged with. Let's talk about the most damning and most serious of these charges and what that means. The most serious charge as you have been iteming me is against Officer Goodson, the driver of the police van. Second-degree depraved murder. What does that mean?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let's back it up a minute and put it in context. Basically what you typically have in every single state are first-degree murder, which means I intended to kill you. I planned it. That's usually the most serious. Then you step it down a little bit. Interestingly in Maryland, the way they define second- degree murder is they say it's when you're responsible for the murder of somebody else but it's not first degree. So you didn't necessarily intend on it. You didn't preplan it. What you need to prove in this particular case is the fact -- she talked about it a lot. Gross negligence, recklessness. His behavior was the direct result of Freddie Gray's death. It wasn't heat of the passion kind of struggle. This wasn't a mistake. This was intentional actions on this officer's part that resulted in gross negligence that was the direct cause of Freddie Gray's death. This is a very serious charge. He could be sentenced, if convicted, to 30 years in prison.

BOLDUAN: To some of the quotes I remember hearing from the prosecutor, grossly negligent, manner in how they handled Freddie Gray, no effort to assess his condition, no medical assistance rendered by any officer at any time.

A lot of this now, Tom, focuses squarely on what happened in that police van. The prosecutor said several times that they didn't do anything to try to help this man when he was injured even saying that they failed to put him in a seat belt for at least the fifth time talking about Officer Goodson. Let's focus in on that for you. Police protocol. They were supposed to put him in a seat belt. We heard that from the police commissioner. That was wrong. What's your reaction when we hear how this prosecutor laid out what happened? She says that his injury, his fatal injury, was the result of being handcuffed, shackled and unsecured by a seat belt while in the police van.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We knew early on that officers didn't follow protocol by seat belting him in the back of the van. We knew there was an injury that took place as a result of that. So this corroborates a lot of what we already knew. The officers at a minimum because they didn't seat belt him in and they didn't get him medical attention in a timely manner, at a minute they would says departmental charges if not criminal charges because of that. This confirms that. Now we hear about the fact that the actions of the officers have actually risen to having probable cause to arrest each and every one of them. That's a problem. We had a situation with the community where they have a perception about police that they are doing things illegal but having said that, let's remember that the prosecutor is able to make these charges because of the investigation done by the Baltimore Police Department. So let's keep that in perspective.

[11:20:06] ROBBINS: By her office.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: She was stunning in marching through. That was the thing that was so surprising about this press conference. When can you ever remember seeing a prosecutor come out before grand jury, before actually arresting the officers --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: She had other options.

ROBBINS: She did. She handled this brilliantly. She let an avalanche of evidence and a very specific time line and we talked only about second-degree murder. The driver is also charged with two statutes that involve the driving of the van. There is a statute in Maryland, manslaughter by vehicle. That carries ten years in prison and they have to prove he was grossly negligent in the way he operated the vehicle. They also charged him with criminally negligent manslaughter which is a different standard. It's lower. Not gross negligence. It's whether or not he deviated from the standard practice of the police, which she clearly outlined in her indictment of these guys during the press conference and the sergeant. She also charged the sergeant.

There was a moment in that press conference -- this is the moment that I lean forward and said oh my god. She says that the officer, Sergeant Alicia White, is accused of opening up the back of that door. This is in the third or fourth stop. This is the stop she was talking about where he was unresponsive at that time. She even put her hand on his head and he was unresponsive and they did not call for any medical attention. She has been charged with involuntary manslaughter, which is a gross negligent standard and carries 10 years in prison. So those are the top line charges. The second-degree murder charge on the driver. The involuntary manslaughter charges related to the vehicle and involuntary manslaughter charges related to the conduct of three of these officers.

BERMAN: Amazing charges. Bombshell coming out from Baltimore from the city prosecutor.

Let's get back to the ground. John Berman is on the ground dissecting and trying to digest as we all are amazing amount of detail that this prosecutor went into.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, Kate.

The state attorney, Marilyn Mosby, announcing moments ago to the youth of the city I will seek justice on your behalf in announcing a range of charges against six police officers. The highest being against officer Caesar Goodson, the driver of that police van who will be charged with second-degree depraved heart murder. Other officers will face involuntary manslaughter charges dealing with negligence. There are people on the streets learning of this information. A man with a bullhorn chanting right now.

I'm joined by Sunny Hostin here with me in front of city hall.

Sunny, help me understand what second-degree depraved-heart murder is. That is what the officer who was driving the truck will be charged with.

HOSTIN: I'm looking at the charging document now. It's really interesting. The difference between second-degree murder and manslaughter is intent. So the states attorney office is charging Caesar with intentionally killing Mr. Gray. That's difficult to prove.

BERMAN: It will be difficult to prove. That's the most extreme charge and there are a range of lesser charges that also carry serious jail time up to ten years or more.

Sunny, hang on one second.

I want to go to Rene Marsh, who is on the streets and has someone with her for reaction.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS CORRESPONDENT: I want to tell you that we're at this intersection and from time to time you'll hear horns beeping. That's what we've been hearing. People approving what they heard the state attorney say.

One of the people out here who we know approves -- Stephanie, come in. I know you live in the area. Your initial reaction when you heard that all six officers there is probable cause to arrest them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tears of joy. To see the city come together as one and they came to get these six police.

MARSH: At any point, did you doubt this would be the announcement that would be made by the state attorney?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did. I didn't think the police would actually get what they got. I thought it would be swept under the carpet like it always has been and now justice has revealed. I'm happy. I'm very happy. Just don't know.

MARSH: Now we know that she says she found probable cause to charge. Is your optimism equally as high that after the trial they will be found guilty of those charges? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe, yes. Everybody in Baltimore city is

going to come down there and keep pressing like they're doing now. It will go through. It has to go through.

MARSH: You trust in the system?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Believe me, I trust in the black community. We didn't push. These young kids didn't beat police up, we wouldn't have even came this far. We wouldn't even (INAUDIBLE).

[11:25:16] MARSH: Stephanie, thank you so much.

Again, Berman, I know you heard in the background there and from time to time all that beeping. People are happy to hear at least the first step here in which the state attorney has announced that there's enough probable cause to charge these six officers -- John?

BERMAN: Rene, so interesting. You asked your guest if they expected this to happen. I was at an intersection not far from where you were yesterday talking to young men here and they absolutely did not expect this. They certainly did not expect it soon. They are under the belief here, many people are, that the system is rigged against them and they were saying that if it had been them, charges would have already been filed. You hear that on the streets if this were me charges would already be filed.

Now they have been filed. I'm wondering if you can show me the scene from where you are. I know that law enforcement started ramping up in the minutes before the states attorney press conference. They obviously knew something was going on. They increased the security presence. Show me what's around you in terms of both security and in terms of the population on the streets.

MARSH: If you look just across the street here and, of course, it's an intersection so it may be difficult, you'll see there is still a presence but the shields are up. They look like they're in a much more relaxed mode. I'm going to have my photographer just kind of turn around bit more to your left so you can see the presence here to the left. So they are still here. However, you know, they look a bit relaxed here. We also saw a couple members from the National Guard, they did leave shortly after. Again, there's still a presence here.

I have to tell you though, John, I spoke with another young man who says to me, look, this is great news. He was surprised at the fact that the state attorney announced that there is enough probable cause to charge these individuals but he, unlike Stephanie that we just heard from, he's not optimistic -- take a listen. You can hear that. That's what we hear in the intersection.

(HONKING)

MARSH: That's what we've been seeing minute after minute as cars come through. People are just excited. Many that I spoke to say they just did not expect this. They said in the words of a young man I just spoke to five minutes ago, he expected the story to play out like how it played out before many times before in which they did not think any charges or any probable cause would be filed against these officers. So they feel a bit victorious out here. But then there's a second half. And you can see they're in the middle there waving their hands pumping their fists.

I want to introduce you to someone here. I saw this woman across the street.

You were very energetic. What is your first name?

LISA MILLS, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: My name is Lisa. My last name is Mills. I'm excited. This is a statement not just for Baltimore but for the United States of America. I want to tell you, we got good police officers and it's just those few bad officers. We don't want them here. We don't want them disrespecting the name of our police department. OK? I'm so excited. It's tremendous.

MARSH: I've been asking everybody this question. Are you surprised at what the state attorney announced? Did you expect this?

MILLS: I'm not surprised at all. It was obvious just by the small amount of footage that we have seen so far that the police did not follow the orders the way they should have. They did not follow procedures. They did not follow procedures. They did not.

MARSH: Thank you so much.

If you look at this man, he's gotten emotional here, John.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We gave our lives for this country. Look at you. Is this what it's coming to, man? I love this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) country, too. Just as much as we do. We're fighting for a reason, man. I was willing to give my life for this country, man. Look at this community now, man. (INAUDIBLE). Oh, man.