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At This Hour

Garland, Texas, Shooter an ISIS Sympathizer, Linked to ISIS on Social Media; Man At Garland, Texas, Shootings Describes the Scene; American Freedom Defense Initiative Labeled Anti-Muslim Hate Group by SPLC; Ben Carson Announces Run for Presidency; Carly Fiorina First Republican Woman to Enter 2016 Race. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired May 04, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00] JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So there will be two tracks to this investigation. One is purely domestic, which is what kind of evidence is in the building or apartment? Where were they? Where did they eat? The other side, as Paul was saying, is the international connection. How strong were they? Is there any proof that they traveled abroad and got training and were in contact with anyone controlling the terrorism attack? Those two will be in parallel simultaneously and with the sharing of information between the FBI, CIA and, of course, foreign intelligence agencies. This is the way the system is set up.

I predict, as always happens, we'll learn that we probably knew more about them than we know now. In other words, there is probably more information about their conduct that someone has somewhere within the intelligence agency. This always happens with these cases. There's just too many people on these lists to be able to monitor them. It was the same challenge that Paris had in January. There's a lot of people on these lists now, people who are sympathizing or coordinating with ISIS.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This was what so many people including experts and analysts like the two of you have been worried about for so long. People in the United States at a minimum inspired by terror groups like ISIS. Much more on this ahead.

Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much.

Paul Cruickshank, our thanks to Paul Cruickshank.

Our thanks to you.

We'll have much more on this breaking news. We'll hear from a man who was inside the event that was targeted by these two gunmen in Texas. He will give you his account of what he saw and heard.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, we'll take you live to Detroit where Ben Carson is announcing a run for the White House, announcing his candidacy. We'll hear why he says he's the best Republican in what's becoming a more crowded field.

CNN's special live coverage will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:26] BERMAN: John Berman with Kate Bolduan.

Our breaking news this morning, we just heard from Garland, Texas, sheriff's department there who explained to us what happened last night. Two armed men with assault rifles tried to shoot up a meeting that was being held there, it was a contest to draw cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. These two men drove up, got out of their car in body armor with assault rifles and started firing, but an officer with a pistol took them both down. Still an active crime scene right now. One security officer was injured but he has already been released from the hospital.

BOLDUAN: The police officer in that press conference say they believe the strategy of these two men was to get into that conference center and obviously you can see what their intent would be if they had made it that far. Thankfully, they did not. But some 200 people were attending the event when shots rang out. They were inside this building and didn't realize there had been a shooting until a security guard ran into warn them.

Randy Potts, a contributing editor for "The Daily Beast," was there covering the cartoon competition. Randy is joining us from Dallas.

Randy, thank goodness, we have you here to speak with us.

We heard more detail about the intent of the men that were shot, what happened outside of the event, and how they ended up dying. What happened inside of the event? Describe what went down when you learned what was happening.

RANDY POTTS, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST Well, I was in a hallway and the conference had just ended maybe five minutes before. Several of us were in the hallway thinking about leaving and then a man in camouflage was running through the hallway shouting and telling us to get back in the conference room immediately. We all went in and doors were shut and for a few minutes we didn't know what had happened at all. We just knew something was going on outside.

BERMAN: You did know that there was an enormous amount of security there. We just did hear from Garland officials about just how much extra security was on. $10,000 worth. It included bomb squad, extra uniform police officers --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: -- even FBI on the scene. And these would-be attackers, one named Elton Simpson, a known ISIS sympathizer with links to known is members online. They were stopped by a barrier, a police car stopped outside to keep them from getting in. Talk to me about the security that you saw.

POTTS: So the security was really extensive. There were two checkpoints that I went through just to get into the parking lot. Then I went through a metal detector to get into the building. And so that was one of the reasons why once we were asked to go into the conference room and the doors were closed, there wasn't as much panic as we expected. We knew that no one could get within 50 yards of the building and so we didn't feel like there was an imminent threat to our safety that instant at least.

BOLDUAN: Randy, you were there covering the event, covering the event because it was controversial. It had been drawing a lot of criticism online. And you would assume that these folks, because of security presence, they were concerned for their safety that they could possibly be a target. What were folks inside saying?

POTTS: The people inside, what I heard was generally that this was a little bit of what they expected. They were holding this event to specifically do something, cross a red line they felt like Muslims had drawn. They felt like Muslims were saying, you can't draw the Prophet Muhammad. Most attendees said that's what we're going to do because you set that red line.

BERMAN: Interesting. Did they exhibit any fear or do you think that -- were they scared at all that this would happen? Was there a difference between being afraid of it and expecting it?

POTTS: You know, I don't think there was a lot of fear or expecting this to happen. The event was pretty -- the mood was light. Even once in the conference room, we felt strongly that nobody could get inside the building. The mood was calm.

BOLDUAN: Randy, we found it interesting that Officer Harn, when he was talking in the press conference a short time ago, he made a point to say he didn't think this event had any connection to Garland and to the town other than the fact that this center was there. Have you spoken to members of the community? It sounded like a lot of folks at this event were from out of town.

[11:40:04] POTTS: Right. Actually, almost everyone I talked to was from out of town, Oklahoma, other areas of Texas. And I think this event was in Garland as a response to an event held in January called Stand with the Prophet that Pamela Geller protested. She held the event in Garland specifically because of that prior event and not because of a connection to the Garland community.

BERMAN: All right. Thank you so much. We're so glad, Randy, that you are OK.

Randy Potts, who was at that event last night that was the target of these two shooters whose intent, according to police officers, was to kill people.

Randy Potts, thank you so much.

I want talk about this group that was targeted, the American Freedom Defense Initiative. Some people believe they are anti-Muslim. They have been labeled an anti-Muslim hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The group said it intentionally picked this Texas venue because another group held an event denouncing Islamophobia at the same venue in January. The leader, Pamela Geller, is also the president of the group Stop Islamization of America.

Joining us now is Mark Potok, with the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Mark, I want to start with a question. This group has spoken out against what they call Islamization of America. They spoke in favor, they say, of free speech. They have spoke about the threat of Islamic terror. Does the fact that they were attacked when they were trying to hold this meeting make their case?

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Well, I'm not sure it makes their case, but it will certainly give a little boost to Pam Geller and her friends.

Let me start out by saying that absolutely nothing justified this attack at all. That said, Pam Geller to describe her as anti-Islam and her groups as being anti-Islam barely covers it. This is a woman who once put a video on her website suggesting that Muslims commit bestiality. She once ran a picture on her website of the Prophet Muhammad with the face of a pig. She describes Islam as the most radical ideology in the world. And she's not merely talking about radical Islamist but Islam in general. She's also traffics in conspiracy theories and says that Barack Obama is the love child of Malcolm X, that Barack Obama's mother posed for pornographic magazine, and it goes on and on and on.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Mark, we need to reiterate the point, you did, but we need to reiterate this point as we learn more about this shooting, regardless of how much one disagree with something that Pamela Geller says or her group supports, that in no way says they deserve to be shot at or targeted as they were last night.

POTOK: I couldn't agree more. I think that's absolutely undeniably true. I think I, as an individual, and Southern Poverty Law Center, as an institution, are defenders of the First Amendment. It's possible to hold those two ideas in one set at the same time. The First Amendment should be defended. Free speech is a good thing. But Pam Geller and her organization is a hate group today just as they were the day before yesterday. I think that's important to remember.

(CROSSTALK)

POTOK: She does specialize in these kinds of events. It seems to me it's similar to the Reverend Terry Jones burning Korans in Florida. Certainly, that was protected activity under the First Amendment but it also led fairly directly to the killing of 10 or 15 people abroad. We can't say that Terry Jones was criminally responsible for that. He most certainly was not. But these are provocations that are aimed at stirring the pot and it doesn't seem terribly surprising that, in fact, they get the response that they are seeking.

BERMAN: Where is the line -- it's a hard one. Where is the line between free speech and what you consider to be hate speech? After the attacks on "Charlie Hebdo" in Paris, there was a great deal of solidarity around that magazine, which drew cartoons not dissimilar to the ones you just described of the Prophet Muhammad.

POTOK: I don't think there is a line. I think hate in the sense -- hate speech is not forbidden speech. Hate speech is simply an adjective describing what the speech sounds like to many ears. I am not suggesting that hate speech should be made illegal. You know, of course, there are matters like criminal incitement, but this clearly had nothing to do with that. So I see it as a false dichotomy. The fact that Pamela Geller and her friends have a right to make these kinds of presentations and speeches to hold contests and so on is not a contradiction of the principle of free speech. It's essentially the cost of democracy.

[11:45:31] BOLDUAN: Mark Potok, of the Southern Poverty Law Center, thank you for your time.

We'll continue to learn more about the motivations behind this attack and exactly what else we can learn about these two suspects. One of them we know the name as Elton Simpson. A lot more to learn as it seems there is an FBI investigation under way.

Mark, thanks so much.

BERMAN: That's important context. You don't want to be in a position of -- these people were targeted by people who now believe to be ISIS sympathizers right now, and there's no place for that.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely not.

BERMAN: Happening right now, a new Republican joining the race for president. Ben Carson just made it official. We'll tell you why he thinks he should be president. And we'll tell you who else just announced this morning and wants to compete against him and the scores of others getting in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:49:48] BERMAN: Love the music.

John Berman here with Kate Bolduan.

Just now, the Republican field for the 2016 presidential race just got more crowded. A famous retired neurosurgeon and former big- time CEO.

BOLDUAN: Dr. Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina are in it. Carson made it official moments ago in his hometown of Detroit.

Let's listen to some of his speech. His very first as an official presidential candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARSON: I got to tell you something, I'm not politically correct and I'm probably never -- (APPLAUSE)

CARSON: I'm probably never going to be politically correct because I'm not a politician. I don't want to be a politician because --

(APPLAUSE)

CARSON: Politicians do what is politically expedient. And I want to do what's right. We have to think about that.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

CARSON: -- in our country.

You know, this past couple of weeks, there's been a great deal of turmoil in Baltimore where I spent 36 years of my life. And we see the turmoil in our cities all over our nation. We need to start thinking about how do we get to the bottom of this issue. You see, I believe that the real issue here is that people are losing hope. And they don't feel that life is going to be good for them no matter what happens. So when an opportunity comes to loot, to riot, to get mine, they take it, not believing that there is a much better way to get the things that they desire.

Now, interestingly enough, many of these people buy hook, line, and sinker, the idea that our economy is getting much better and that, you know, the unemployment rate is down to 5.5 percent. You know what? If the unemployment rate was down to 5.5 percent, our economy would be humming, OK. But obviously, it's not. It's one of the reasons that our founders said that our freedom and our way of life is dependent upon a well-informed and educated populace, because what you have to know is that you can make the unemployment rate anything you want it to be based on what numbers you include and what numbers you exclude. So you have to look at the labor force participation rate, which is the number of people eligible to work who are actually working. That number has been steadily going down since 2009 and is now at 37-year low. Unless you understand those kinds of things, it's imminently possible for slick politicians and biased media to convince you that everything is wonderful when your eyes tell you something different.

And I'm saying to people around this nation right now, stop being loyal to a party or to a man and use your brain to think for yourself.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Moments ago, Dr. Ben Carson, he is in the race. He had to cancel a planned trip to Iowa because his mother is very sick. He wants to be with her. Our hearts go out to him and his family. But it's a big new move in the race.

Up next, we'll take you live to Detroit for reaction and to find out where Ben Carson sits in the polls.

BOLDUAN: And much more on our breaking news out of Texas. The investigation into the Texas shooting, well, that investigation now has moved to Arizona where authorities are combing through the suspect's Phoenix home for evidence. We're going to take you live to the apartment complex where the search is going on right now.

This is CNN special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:57:30] BERMAN: Just moments ago, Dr. Ben Carson made it official. He is now in the 2016 presidential race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now I'll introduce my family. You say, well, who are you. I'll tell you, I'm Ben Carson, and I'm a candidate for president of the United States.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: A lot of other people saying who are you. Early, Carly Fiorina, she declared her candidacy as well. The former CEO of Hewlett-Packard becomes the first Republican woman to enter the race. Both candidates considered Washington outsiders as well as being considered at the moment long shots. A long time to go before the end of this.

Let's get to senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson, who is in Detroit where Carson just made his announcement.

Nia-Malika, we just heard from Ben Carson, who says he's not always politically correct because he's not a politician. But what else are we going to hear from him now that he's in it?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: He really borrowed from his biography heavily. He talked about his mom at the beginning of the speech and how she wasn't dependent on welfare the way some people are now and worked hard. I think that's the type of inspirational message we'll hear thrown around in his speeches strewn throughout I think a lot of this race. He talked a bit about Baltimore as well. He says those folks in Baltimore were without hope and that was one of the reasons they were sometimes in those stores and looting some of the shops there. He talked about reviving the economy, but not much.

Not a ton of applause lines, I think, in this speech, but this crowd very much likes him. He's a bit of a local legend here in Detroit and some of those people out here today wanting to support him, wanting to see what he had to say in terms of this new chapter in his life. Once he was neurosurgeon, now a retired neurosurgeon, now a candidate for president. He said in his life he has done hard things. Among those hard things are separating conjoined twins, and now he's ready to do something hard in terms of running for president and making it to the White House.

BERMAN: The best-selling author. His first book, "Gifted Hand," sold over a million copies. This is a man very who was well-known before he started dabbling in politics a while ago.

Nia-Malika Henderson, great to have you here with us. Thanks so much.

I should mention he's not necessarily polling at the top of the field right now but you'll remember four years ago, just about every Republican in that race took a turn --

BOLDUAN: Right.

BERMAN: -- at or near the lead. So you just never know.

BOLDUAN: You just never know and that's what makes it so exciting.

Thank you all for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome --