Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

Tom Brady Fights Back Against Deflategate Report; New Developments in Case of Freddie Gray; Russell Brand Gets Involved in U.K. Election; Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Brady fights back. Terribly disappointed. His agent blasted Deflategate report. Oh, my, what happens now?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Will a nun take the stand in the Boston trial. A showdown brewing over the inspiration for "Dead Man Walking." Why legal teams in Boston at odds over this.

BERMAN: Is there a campaign to discredit the prosecutor in Baltimore. New links that prosecution against the six officers just doesn't add up.

BOLDUAN: Hello, everybody. I'm Kate Bolduan.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman. The report all but calls him a cheater, says he lied to investigators, suggested he traded shirts for softness. Now Tom Brady is fighting back against the NFL report on Deflategate, a display, perhaps, meant to show he has a big set of gripes.

BOLDUAN: Oh, gosh.

BERMAN: Just a few minutes ago Brady's agent released a statement that, frankly, I find startling.

BOLDUAN: A long statement, too. Here is part of it. In it he writes this, "The Wells Report, with all due respect, is a significant and terrible disappointment. Its omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest investigators reach a conclusion first and then determine so-called fact later." He also says this, "suggests in his view that it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetuating and perpetrating a sting operation."

Let's bring in CNN's Rachel Nichols for more on this, as well Tim Green, former NFL defensive end for Atlanta Falcons, and also an attorney and "New York Times" best-selling author of "Football Genius."

Rachel, are you surprised, they came out swinging on this?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: This was not a modest, hey, we disagree with the report. This was punching big holes, bringing up the conflict of interest issue, which, of course, we know we've been talking about that on this show and all over CNN for months. Richard Sherman from Seattle Seahawks brought this up as well. Then they are saying basically there are huge parts of Tom Brady's testimony they didn't include in this report. So this is a big contrast or at least some contrast to the statement from Robert Kraft of New England Patriot yesterday. The owner also disputed the report. That part is similar. He said at the end, we will take whatever punishment the league hands out and we understand that is part of this investigation. What Tom Brady's agent is saying here, they want to fight this, at least in the court of public opinion if not all the way up to appealing, and they have a right to.

BERMAN: Tim Green, I don't think the commissioner likes people who talk about. This doesn't just disagree with the report but does it in a cheeky way. More probable than not the league cooperated in a sting operation. Could Brady and his agent be making things worse before Goodell decides what punishment to mete out?

TIM GREEN, ATTORNEY, FORMER ATLANTA FALCONS DEFENSE END & AUTHOR: Well, I think so. The corroboration between the investigator and the league doesn't make sense because the league has no interest in finding Tom Brady guilty, finding employees of the New England Patriot guilty. That just doesn't make sense to me. If you read the report, and Ted Wells is a criminal lawyer, so his standard of evidence is always innocent until proven guilty and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It's interesting to me that as an attorney, he uses evidentiary standard for a civil case in this preponderance of the evidence, more likely than not. I think Ted Wells seems pretty even handed and fair. He's still leaving some room for doubt, some room for Tom Brady and his agent to dispute and say, hey, look, I agree with the agent in that we don't see the full picture. There are things that Tom Brady, probably reasons and rational he has that aren't included in the report, where if it was a criminal case and on trial, you would have that opportunity, you would see both sides of the issue certainly going all the way back to Robert Kraft. He's disappointed, standing by his quarterback. In the end he's saying, look, we're one of 32 teams and I understand the importance of us just sitting down now, being quiet and taking whatever punishment the league hands out. I think most important is this --

(CROSSTALK)

GREEN: Excuse me -- is that Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick were found to not have any involvement in it at all.

BOLDUAN: Tim, real quick. A lot of fans are really wondering as they read through this, how many page in the report?

BERMAN: 200 plus.

[11:05:04] BOLDUAN: 236. You're a former player, you know the culture of the league, does this go far enough to establish Tom Brady is a cheater?

GREEN: Well, I guess, look, you think a reasonable person is going to say yeah. Tom Brady, at least he knew, probably knew or probably maybe even had some involvement. But if you read the text, I felt like I was in law school again, that 240-page report, there's a lot of things where they were talking about tom was upset because the balls were overinflated. They were talking about having to bring the pressure down. You could really build a cogent argument about how Tom Brady was not talking about deflating them beyond the rules but make sure they are not overinflated.

BERMAN: This is not a court of law. It's the commissioner's office, the standard is more probable than not.

Rachel Nichols, when you have terms that are frankly not too subtle like "deflator," when somebody calls them selves the "deflator," doesn't leave much to the imagination.

NICHOLS: That's your nickname around here.

BOLDUAN: Let's focus on that.

BERMAN: But, Rachel, what does Roger Goodell do now in now that he has the report, angry response from Brady and his agent, what and when are we going to hear from the commissioner.

NICHOLS: One thing that's important, he's sort of pushing off the sentencing for this, the executive vice president. Part of that is because Roger Goodell has come under a lot of criticism for his own dealing of punishment over the past year or so and the idea of having somebody else in the office do it is a way of distancing himself a little bit especially since he is so close to Robert Kraft, the Patriots owner. This has been a big question mark. By Troy Vincent being the one that decided the punishment, in Roger Goodell, Troy Vincent is the decider here, to bring up one of our political terms, he's trying to wade through this conflict of interest issue. We should say preponderance of the evidence, civil suit standard, that is in the integrity clause in NFL rules. That is set out all they have to prove, more criminal version of beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not something they were told to go find.

BERMAN: Get ready to learn Jimmy Garoppolo. He's the Patriots quarterback that could be playing.

BOLDUAN: Tom Brady will be sitting on the sidelines or maybe not.

Tim Green, Rachel Nichols, thank you so much. Great to see you both.

Let's turn to Baltimore now, new developments in the case of the death of Freddie Gray. CNN sources say major discrepancies are emerging between police investigation and the prosecutor's investigation.

BERMAN: So what we are told, police findings could undercut make of the most serious charges brought by state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby, against six officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray. It needs to be said the leaking of this information could very well be designed to undercut Marilyn Mosby.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. It really isn't surprising you have these kinds of leaks coming from either the attorneys and some of the officers or other officials who have actually been able to see police investigation they did as well as the prosecutor's case that was laid out, the base for the charges against the six officers.

There's a couple of things. These sources say they believe that the autopsy report does not support homicide. They also believe that the evidence the police have lay out a case for manslaughter, not second degree murder, and that two attorneys, for two of the officers, say they actually wan to see the knife that Freddie Gray had on his possession when he was apprehended, when he was tackled by the police initially because they believe that that knife is illegal for him to have. If they can show that knife is, in fact, the type of knife that is illegal, it gives them probable cause for that arrest. Therefore when you have the false imprisonment charge against those two officers, they are hoping that will dismiss the charge. Those are the things behind the scenes.

Do want to tell you as well this morning what we did see on the corner of Pennsylvania and North Avenue, that was the scene just more than a week ago where CVS was burning down. It is now boarded up. We saw the mayor as well as community leaders stress a new initiative from the city. They are calling it one Baltimore. The mayor saying the recovery effort is so critical at this time that the cameras, media, many people will go away in the months to come but that the community needs to come together. That is what she is trying to accomplish. That is what we saw in the corner just moments ago as they wrapped up that press conference.

As we move forward, later today, we're going to see a presidential hopeful Republican, Ben Carson, meeting with religious leaders. There are a lot of activists, politicians, even musicians getting involved in this. Monday Prince is going to be giving his own concert in support of some of these community organizations.

Kate and John?

[11:10:07] BERMAN: Suzanne Malveaux, thanks so much.

Up next, big news around the world. Russell Brand not exactly breaking records at the box office any more, so why is he a factor in a crucial election? Voters are making their selection right now.

Plus sex, blackjack, escorts, this is not some bachelor party. It's Pentagon employees, charges on their credit cards. So how are they explaining themselves?

BOLDUAN: And explaining themselves back home.

And will one of America's most famous nuns testify on behalf of the Boston bomber. Right now, a showdown over the inspiration for the movie "Dead Man Walking."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: New this morning, sources say police investigation into the death of Freddie Gray does not support some of the most serious charges brought by states attorney, Marilyn Mosby. Her office with a separate investigation into how Freddie Gray suffered a spinal injury. The discrepancies pointed out to us between these two, suggestion is under these officials could undercut the case in the six officers charged in the death of the 25-year-old.

BOLDUAN: Attorneys for those officers are already filing motions and digging for ways, really, to attack weaknesses they see in Mosby's case against the officers.

Let's discuss this with Tom Mesereau, an attorney, and formerly Michael Jackson's attorney. He's joining us from Los Angeles.

Tom, it's great to see you.

A couple of key points with discrepancies. Obviously when you talk about the most serious charge second degree murder, that's the biggest charge they are trying to dig holes into, raising discrepancies between one investigation and the next. The police investigation, it was leaked out they were looking towards at most manslaughter, not second degree murder. Do you think second degree murder and everything put out there so far goes too far?

[11:15:29] TOM MESEREAU, ATTORNEY: Well, it may. Remember, there was enormous political and social pressure to charge these police officers. Once they were charged, the city calmed down, curfew was lifted, everything changed. The standard to charge someone is probable cause. Probable cause is a very minimal standard. Now they are in the criminal justice system. Now they are going to have to prove each and every police officer guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When I say beyond a reasonable doubt, every element of the charged crime has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt including criminal intention. Criminal intent is critical to every charge. It's a whole new ball game now. The defense lawyers are doing what they should do, attacking these charges, held substantial the evidence is, playing to the jury poll when they file these motions. It's a new game now. It's not that easy to convict all these people beyond a reasonable doubt I don't think.

BERMAN: I think the last point that you're making about this being a new game, a game now where defense attorneys are actively involved here, police and interested parties, police unions and interested party. Without substance of the leagues, the fact they are happening says a lot about the atmosphere under which this case will now be tried.

MESEREAU: Sure. As I said before, the city was in flames. The city could have been in far worse condition if there had been no charges. Now the charges are brought, the city calmed down. Can you prove them against each individual officer? The behavior of each officer and mind-set of each officer put under a microscope. I can imagine each officer if they choose to testify, look, this is what I knew. This is what nobody told me. I had no idea this person was in the kind of condition he was in. Maybe they got calls to go somewhere else and they thought there was an emergency. I don't know what the evidence is going to be. I think a civil suit against the police department is going to be a lot easier than proving a criminal case against each individual officer. It's not going to be easy. Second degree murder against a police officer is going to require a lot of proof, a lot of very damaging evidence. You're going to have to get into this person's mind as to what they were thinking and why. It's not going to be simple.

BOLDUAN: One thing you don't have to get into someone's mind about, the issue of the knife. They say they did find on Freddie Gray at the time. There is this discrepancy between was the knife illegal or was it legal. That obviously gets to the probable cause, should they have been able to arrest him at all. This is a physical item. It shouldn't be easy to clear up in my mind. Why the confusion do you think?

MESEREAU: Well, there's different standards, state law, local law as to what kind of knife is legal or illegal. Is it manufactured, spring-loaded? There are a number of technicalities that go into this issue. Overriding all of this, police officers have to operate with limited information, have to do their duty in a split second. They are going to get up and say this is what I thought, this is what I knew, this is what I was trained to do. The question is, is a jury going to give them the benefit of the doubt or say they are criminals?

BERMAN: Tom Mesereau, this is an important discussion we're going to keep on having. Thanks for being with us.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Tom.

MESEREAU: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, the full show the queen is safe, but do we know for sure? Prime Minister Cameron's job might not be safe. An important election happening in the U.K. We'll give you the latest updates next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:45] BERMAN: Welcome to 2016 with an accent.

BOLDUAN: Welcome, everyone.

BERMAN: Voters are at the polls at this moment at this very moment, a race that will determine the next prime minister there. It is a nail biter of an election that seems tighter than Mic Jagger's slacks.

BOLDUAN: David Cameron is seeking a second term as prime minister, opposition Labour and party leader, big opponent. The outcome of this could determine if Britain's vote on leaving European Union very important indeed.

Senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, also important. He's in London for us.

Joining us to play a game we have about questions about your elections,

Nic, how are you?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm good. No sign of Mic Jagger here today. If he was running, more people would be voting. (LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: There you go. Mic Jagger with one endorsement.

Here is one question. Explain to us, whoever wins the most votes might not win in the end. Nic Robertson, with a fabulous British accent, why is this?

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERTSON: We have the process here which means let's say this constituency right here, under the circumstances the votes. You get in here. Across the country your party -- across the country your party gets the largest percentage of votes but you don't manage to win that many seats. It's the seats in parliament, each constituency that determine who gets to be in power here. Right now, it's expected David Cameron, his party will get the most seats in the House. But that doesn't mean going to get to form the government. Terribly complicated. Lots of small parties. It's never quite been this way before.

BERMAN: Why, then, is Russell Brand involved. Russell Brand, I don't think he's been in a hit movie for a long time. On the other hand, he made a real point of meeting with Russell Brand. What's going on here?

[11:25:00] ROBERTSON: Russell Brand is supposed to be cool and friendly. Russell Brand sitting on his bed, who does that? We don't know. That's the idea. The idea is that he wanted to connect with the younger audience. One of the things he later said, the reason we want to do this,  Russell Brand is telling people, young people, don't vote, it's not important. You know what, a couple days before today, Russell Brand said actually to all his young fans, supposedly, it is important to vote. He told them to vote Labour.

BOLDUAN: Scotland also plays a big part in this. Obviously a very important question, was it going to succeed. Now going to play a big part in this election. Why?

ROBERTSON: Sure. Last year, a referendum in Scotland, they didn't quite get it. They got so much support there are now more people in the Scotland National Party than people in the British army. More people in the Scotland National Party than there are in all the political parties across the U.K. Why? Because they got some popularity, some momentum. They have got a lot more people to buy into the idea of independence and to the very essence of they believe the SNP can do a better job. Had six M.P.s, or it did until a few days ago. It's expected out of 59 seats in Scotland to get well over 50. Massive landslide. That means they could end up having a significant voice in the Houses of Parliament in London. This is unheard of for them to have such a big voice.

BERMAN: Could mean Labour would need them to form a coalition government, tacit government, so people who want to leave the European all together may does who is the next prime minister, Nic Robertson.

BOLDUAN: Nic, we can all say the messy American system is starting to look a little less messy after all that.

Thanks, Nic. Great to see you.

ROBERTSON: Come talk to us in a couple days. Come talk to us in a couple of days when it's really messy and really in the weeds with this.

BOLDUAN: I love it. We'll be there with bells on.

Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, flowers, $10, wine, $30. Adult entertainment, gambling and escorts, John, how much does that cost?

BERMAN: Priceless.

BOLDUAN: Unless you get caught charging it on Pentagon credit card. What happens in Vegas ends up. You won't believe the details coming out.

And, a North Korean official tells a reporter how, when, why they would attack the United States with nuclear weapons. An eye-opening exclusive report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)