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At This Hour

Interview with Boston Police Commissioner; Baltimore Police Commissioner Asking Feds for Help. Aired 11:30a-12:00p ET.

Aired June 04, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:30] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: What do you make of it?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHEIF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The body count was obviously a mistake and it was silly to bring it up. We all know about Vietnam and the body count and what a silly kind of thing that is no. Obviously walking that back. The key is there are a lot more recruits killed and a lot of territory being gobbled up. And Antony Blinken is right. It have been over the last nine months victories against ISIS.

But in the last months or so, all we've heard are victories of ISIS. And the only ground forces is obviously Shiite militia as well. That they are the only people pushing back ISIS. The problem, of course, is in Syria as well. Former deputy CIA director Mike Morell told me we have a hammer in Iraq, to the extent we do but no Anvil in Syria.

There is nothing the United States and west is doing that is stopping the march of ISIS in Syria. In fact, by my estimation and my interviews with people on the ground and elsewhere, the moderate rebels and those who can fight ISIS are having their hands tied. They are not armed, supplied. In fact, they are being told, don't go against Assad. It's really a very bad situation right now. It's almost like a tipping point situation right now.

BOLDUAN: Because how do you win the whole fight if you can't do anything in Syria. Christiane, thank you so much.

Coming up for us new details about the terror plot stopped by police and FBI in Boston. A threatened beheading, weapons ordered on amazon.com and secret coded language trying to hide it all. But the big question this morning is everyone connected to that plot now in custody. We're going to talk to Boston's police commissioner coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:00] BOLDUAN: An ISIS inspired to kill Boston police filed. Officers shot and killed Usaamah Rahim Tuesdays after trying to confront him outside a CVS.

BERMAN: He was 26 years old. He's now dead. Police have another man in custody and question a third man. So what is the status of this investigation? We're joined by the man right now in charge of it all, Boston's police commissioner William Evans. Commissioner, thanks so much for being with us.

WILLIAM EVANS, COMMISSIONER, BOSTON POLICE: Thank you.

BERMAN: Are you convinced, sir, that this plot, as it was, stopped at those three people? You have the deceased man, the man in custody, you questioned a third man. does it go beyond those two or three individuals?

EVANS: No, everything we're looking at right now appears that this is sort of the three that we were looking at. I don't think it's any bigger. Obviously we're concerned. I know a couple weeks ago we had put out alerts ISIS and other groups were targeting policeman and military men. I just want to thank everyone involved here. I know we work closely with the FBI.

We averted a terrible plot. You know, I think it played out there on Tuesday morning. But I think we're pretty comfortable at least with this little group that the citizens are Boston can be safe that there's nothing bigger at least that we know right now operating in the city of Boston.

BOLDUAN: Commissioner, can you tell us what tipped you off to Rahim? What landed him on your radar initially?

EVANS: Well, again, a lot of this, unfortunately, is classified information. Working with joint terrorism task force, we developed information that obviously focused on him. He was under 24/7 surveillance, although last several days, more than a week. Obviously I was happy the affidavit was released yesterday.

It clearly showed, you know, that he wanted to behead possibly a boy in blue. I just can't thank the FBI and my officers and the whole task force for taking down a very serious threat we were confronted on Tuesday morning. You know, the information gathering was key and we were able to neutralize this threat. So I'm very confident that we've got what we need for now.

It doesn't mean we don't have to be all vigilant as we move about our daily lives. We see it after 9/11, we seen it after the Boston bombing. You know, I'm confident at least this threat has been neutralized.

BERMAN: You know, look this didn't just happen anywhere. This happened in Boston, which fell victim to a terrorist attack two years ago on the streets there. Let me ask you, the relationship between these three men, Rahim, the man in custody and the third man. Can you explain their relationship?

EVANS: Well, obviously two of them I know were related. I think one was the suspect's relationship I think yesterday we took into custody the nephew. So there was a relationship there. I'm not really clear on the third man. Again, we're working closely with the FBI. They are sort of focusing on the relationship of the third individual to these two. But I think the intent, you know, came out clearly that this was a serious threat. I think on the video it shows the officers clearly approaching them unarmed. Obviously this individual coming at them and them backing up. I

don't think this individual was going to go down lightly and unfortunately we had to take his life. You know - you know, I can't say enough about the work that went into this and how the cooperation between the FBI and Boston and our state partners avoided a tragedy here.

BOLDUAN: Now, it's believed that the threat was imminent, imminent threat. That's what we've heard over and over from authorities. Can you describe how imminent this threat actually was, why you decided you had to move in then, how close he was to becoming, if you want to call it, operational and going after a police officer.

[11:40:00] EVANS: I think it was imminent. I think, you know, we picked up information that he was heading out. Obviously we knew he had access to three large knives. We talked about going out that morning. That's why we wanted to get him before he got on the bus on that Washington street because we didn't know what he was capable of doing.

He could have acted out on that bus. The information we picked up, he wanted to go on vacation. That was the code word for going on a violent Jihad. We knew we had to take him down, you know. I just think, you know, we really averted a serious tragedy if we didn't take him down then.

BERMAN: Commissioner, who had the ISIS connection in your mind? Was it Rahim himself contacted or radicalized online or these other two men? What was the connection?

EVANS: Well, again, I don't put to really get into that. Again, a lot of this information we picked up is classified, so I don't really want to dig into who had what connections. All I can let you know is they were a serious threat that was neutralized through the work of the joint terrorism task force. That's the FBI. That's us. This is an ongoing investigation but I'm confident that we got the three people we think were involved here.

BOLDUAN: Boston police commissioner William Evans, thank you for taking the time. Clearly a close call, the work of your department and the FBI averted. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: The subject of policing.

EVANS: Thank you.

BERMAN: We need help. Those are desperate words coming from Baltimore's top officer as violent crime spirals out of control in that city. He says drugs stolen in the riots, they are to blame.

[11:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Request for help. Baltimore's police commissioner is asking that additional federal agents and prosecutors be dispatched to Baltimore after the city recorded 43 murders in May, becoming the deadliest month in over 40 years. BOLDUAN: Commissioner Batts says that the rise, that rise of

violent crimes is connected to huge influx of the prescription drugs heading the street. The drugs coming from looting, mass lootings of two dozen pharmacies following the riots over the death of Freddie Gray. Listen to the commissioner.

ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: There's enough narcotics on the streets of Baltimore to keep it intoxicated for a year. That amount of drugs has thrown off the ballot streets of Baltimore.

BOLDUAN: Let's bring in Baltimore city Councilman Carl Stokes to discuss. Councilman, thank you for coming on. A pretty alarming message coming from the police commissioner. What's going on? Do you agree with him?

CARL STROKES, BALTIMORE CITY COUNCILMAN: Not entirely. Certainly not simply a matter of much more prescription drugs on the street. Baltimore has had a very high homicide rate for many years, even when we reduced the total number of murders, still our per capita rate has remained stubbornly one of the top five, six in the country.

It is not simply that. What we have frankly is a couple of things going on. I think there's more opportunity for the criminals in this city to do what they are doing because leadership is failing and, frankly, because the paternal order of police, if they didn't order it, they have given some - again, not an order but say their rank and file, you don't have to work as hard as you should be working.

You don't have to live up to your oath to serve and protect. I think we have a horrible situation going on right now in this town. Things that have been going on before are just intensified right now. In other words, those neighborhoods that are most racked with poverty and issues of violent crime, which were not well policed before last month are down, almost abandoned in some cases, frankly, by the men and women that we expect to serve us much better than we are being served right now.

BERMAN: You're saying the cops aren't working as hard as they could or should to keep the streets safe? I was in Baltimore obviously last month and saw everything that happened there. I saw an enormous effort among leadership, community leadership, among the clergy, among the police also at the state level also, everyone was working to calm things down there. Is everyone not working as hard now?

STROKES: I think not. I think that - I know that the police officers have lost confidence and respect for their commander as well as for the Mayor, frankly. I think that the FOP, I have no idea why, is pushing disdains instead of unity, coming together. Still, the greater majority of the citizens of this town love, respect, and have confidence in the police, the everyday cop out on the street working for us as we've had for all the time.

But right now unfortunately and crazily, police officers are actually telling average citizens we're not doing all of the extra things that we used to do. We're not doing it. We're not doing it because we're upset with our leadership.

BOLDUAN: Police officers are telling citizens on the street, on their beat, they are saying that to them?

STROKES: Yes. I'll bring some for you, if you want the next show. Yes, the citizens are being told by the police, and the police don't always know who the citizen is, but they know them. They are telling them. So all last week, I'm at community meetings and my zips, constituency, Black, White, Brown are saying to me, Carl, councilman, I was told by the guy on the beat they are not doing extra things anymore, not responding as quickly or as well as they have been. They are just telling us this.

BOLDUAN: So the commissioner now is obviously requesting the federal government to come in. He says they need more resources to help phi fight this problem. He was talking a lot about the prescription drug problem. Do you think that is even a short-term fix to the huge crisis you guys are facing in terms of the homicide rate and prescription drugs on the street? Do you welcome that?

[11:50:00] STROKES: Well, what I would welcome is that we had a leader, a commander, who know what the hell was going on with his troops. Because he has lost the confidence and respect of the police officers on the street. He has lost the streets entirely in terms of the criminals out there.

BOLDUAN: Do you think that's...

STROKES: Expecting confidence...

BERMAN: Do you think he needs to go? Do you think Commissioner Bass needs to go?

STROKES: I heard you now. I'm probably two steps away from that. From calling for that. In other words, we don't need more confusion, more craziness going on, I would like the commissioner and the FOP and community leaders to get together and determine that we're all going to work on behalf of this great city.

And that my officer, our officers are going to serve their hope to the people of the city. It is unfair, it is unconscionable that there would be some members of the police department, and I'm not saying every man and woman, but there are too many who have made a decision that they're not going to live up to their oath.

BOLDUAN: Council member Strokes, we need to continue this conversation, obviously, but thank you very much for coming on and talking about it with us today. Let's continue this talk.

STROKES: Thank you Kate, thank you John.

BOLDUAN: Of course. Coming up for us, is there a serial shooter on the loose? Police are now investigating a third shooting in Colorado, and they're trying to figure out if it's connected to others in the area.

[11:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAKS)

BOLDUAN: Happening now, police in Colorado are investigating whether a shooting last night may be linked to a string of shootings just north of Denver.

BERMAN: They are wondering if perhaps they have a serial shooter on their hands. CNN's Ana Cabrera joins us now live from Centennial in Colorado, Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kate, the investigation is definitely intensifying this morning after a 65-year-old man was found shot and killed in Laughlin Colorado last night, about an hour north of Denver. Authorities don't know the circumstances surrounding his death, they know he was shot. They're wondering if his shooting was linked to others that have happened in just the past six weeks in the same region.

We know that just last month, a bicyclist was killed in Windsor, Colorado, man was riding his bike to work when he was found shot dead. Then the month before at the end of the April, a 20-year-old woman was shot in the neck while driving on interstate 25 in the Ft. Collins area. She survived. While authorities believe these shootings have been random, they've been able to link the last two shootings with ballistic evidence. They formed a task force to investigate, that includes the FBI, and they've offered a $12,000 reward to try to track down a suspect and bring this case to a prosecution.

Now, it's important to note that while we still don't know whether this third shooting was linked all the shootings are happening within 15 miles of each other. Residents in that region are certainly on edge right now, John and Kate.

BERMAN: All right. Ana Cabrera deeply troubling. Stay on this for us, appreciate it.

Coming up for us, was there a third person involved in the Boston terror plot? We're live at the top of the hour with new information.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So if you're stumped on where to go for dinner or what to do this weekend, you might check your phone, right? Perhaps yelp or Four Square.

BOLDUAN: We sat down with the founder of Four Square and why he says his app has a leg up.

LAURIE SEGALL, TECH CORRESPONDENT: The last time I sat down on camera, I asked you what is Four Square, you said it is an app for city living, makes cities easier so use. Let's fast forward all the way to now, 2015, I'm going to ask you the exact same question. What is Foursquare?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: : The making cities easier to use thing in 2009, still very core to all the things we're trying to accomplish. We're always first and foremost focused on building consumer apps. We have the foursquare, swarm helps you figure out where friends are, foursquare, amazing way to find the most interesting things wherever they go.

Now six years into it, I think Foursquare has morphed into a company that builds technology, it's really at the cutting edge of what you can do with location-based services.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Laurie Segall for that. And thanks for joining us At this Hour.

BERMAN: Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield, starts right now.