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At This Hour

Two Buses Collide Inside Lincoln Tunnel; U.S. Announces New Moves Against ISIS; Manhunt for Escaped Convicts Continues. Aired 11:00-11:30a ET.

Aired June 10, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Here's what Aretha Franklin told CNN. Quote, I saw the video, I'm scared of her. I thought I had those moves covered.

But this little girl, she's fierce. Thank you for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. At This Hour's Berman and Bolduan starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Going door to door and a desperate hunt for two escaped killers. This is a female prison worker suspected of backing out of their getaway plan you're going hear why.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A stunning admission by Baltimore police holding back instead of fighting crime. Officers break their silence to CNN about the riots, Freddie Gray and whether Marilyn Mosby has their backs.

BOLDUAN: And back to Iraq the U.S. announces a new move against ISIS and it involves sending hundreds more American troops. The presidential contender and one of the president's fiercest critics, join us live.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman. We do have breaking news. Two buses have collided inside one of America's busiest tunnels. You're looking at live pictures right now of the Lincoln tunnel that is at the New York City side of the Lincoln tunnel, more than a dozen people were reportedly hurt when a New Jersey transit bus and a private bus collided in the center entrance on the Manhattan side of the tunnel.

You can imagine what this will do to traffic coming in and out of this busy roadway. We'll bring you updates on the traffic and also the conditions of the people inside those bus as we get them.

Meanwhile new information this morning on the manhunt for two escaped killers in upstate New York including stunning revelations about a prison employee who knew the pair.

According to a CNN source, investigators think at one point Joyce Mitchell planned to pick up Richard Matt and David Sweat after they broke out.

BOLDUAN: Now, Mitchell's son says that is not true and add that his mother was actually hospitalized this weekend with chest pains. Authorities are examining Mitchell's cell phone as we speak as another source says it was used to call several people connected to one of the men now on the run.

Polo Sandoval is on the ground, has been on the ground there for us. Polo, you've got hundreds of officers searching for these guys in two different areas. Where is the focus right now?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's interesting here, Kate, is the focus is right where this all started in the small town of Dannemora, New York and really the gates of the Clinton Correctional Facility and New York State Police is putting out information this morning advising residents of this tiny town that they can expect an increased police presence. They say, they haven't received any major leads that's why they are bringing it back here. They simply want to retrace their steps they made early on this investigation shortly after that Saturday incredible escape.

Short enough a few moments after that, we did see some heavily armed S.W.A.T. team members, state police, even the FBI gearing up, meeting up this command post here in the small town in the shadow of maximum security prison basically getting a brief and then heading out.

We do expect them to go door to door, checking in with individuals. At this point that could lead us to believe that in spite of receiving so many different leads none of them have been strong enough to secure investigators in any specific direction. There was some concern that these two very dangerous fugitives went north into Canada or possibly all the way down into Mexico which is where one of those individuals is suspected of having ties. So again, today with improvements in the weather we can expect search crews, officers to resume some of these efforts.

Some of what we saw yesterday as well, they are trying to continue tracking down these individuals while the people in this small upstate New York town continue moving on with their day-to-day lives, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Well, tough to think they can because it seems that it's been altered at the moment for sure. Polo, thank you very, very much. So as the manhunt for these two convinced killers goes into its fifth day now the son of inmate Richard Matt he's speaking out about his father. Listen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any respect for your dad at this point?

NICK HARRIS, SON OF ESCAPED PRISONER RICHARD MATT: I don't know him to say I respect him or not. Obviously he was in jail when I was younger and he wasn't there for me as a father 100 percent. So there's that. But I don't know him as I've said. It might just be his nature he escaped, so I don't know. BERMAN: A young man and his family said they have no idea where

the inmates are. They don't believe that they will contact the family. Joining us now to get further insight into this manhunt in the new developments Retired U.S. Marshall Matthew Fogg. Matt, Sir, thanks so much for being with us.

[11:05:00] Let's talk about the major developments overnight words that this prison worker Joyce Mitchell may have been planning at one point to serve as a getaway driver but then backed out. What does that tell us? Two things I suppose. One, it that they were working with someone on the inside and number two, that maybe their getaway plan fell apart in the last minute and they could be really close by.

MATTHEW FOGG, RETIRED U.S. MARSHALL: Or I could say she simply got cold feet when she realized how serious the situation was. It's any number of things that probably could have went through her mind at the last minute if that is in fact true, I understand that's why he made this you know, that's the source giving us that information.

But again, with these people when you are talking about trying to help somebody to escape, an elaborate escape like this especially as a prison guard, she has to know really what she's facing if these guys were to get out on the run or somehow or her name would get found out. And that's why I believe I thought she started of having this hyperventilation because you know, as U.S. Marshall investigator, we go to these people and start questioning them.

They get - now, some folks don't necessarily have to necessarily be guilty but the bottom line is that blood pressure really starts arising when you start asking questions around things like this.

BOLDUAN: What does it mean that - let's assume that this is accurate that she was planning to kind of provide them a getaway when they got out and then backed down of it. If you work on that assumption, what does that now mean for these guys on the run?

FOGG: Well, for the fugitives, I'm sure with it that they had some contingency plans. And then, again, I believe this has worked on over years over a period of time because they've got a long time to sit back and make sure they get it right. And in fact, that one of them was a former escapee these guys, I believe they got it right.

One of the things that I would look for, I would look is the trains, these freight trains. That's the first thing you ride one. You're right to jump on a freight train you're just like a ban or a beggar. You know, somebody did - a homeless person jump on a train and that train could take you straight south or take you north. So that's a lot of times with those guys - that's the first place I would went to check those ages. But again, if they're still in the area, they're going to be hunkered down somewhere hoping that they can just wait there and wait it out for the authorities.

BERMAN: So there's been a lot of speculation that they tried to run for the border to go to Canada. But I want you to clear this for me, that doesn't necessarily mean salvation you don't cross the Canadian border then suddenly get a free pass. You'd have Canadian authorities hunting you down pretty carefully, wouldn't you?

FOGG: Well, yes, I don't necessarily know if there are Canadian authorities but at the same amount of manpower went to it that we do. But they have very, very helpful to us. I mean, we have a great relationship with the Canadian Police and authorities on that side of the border. So they will. Right now, while everything has intensified, they've intensified their border patrols and all of their people.

But at some point in time, if these guys stay away long enough, I mean, you know, of course, as you know resources start to display, again, the key is you go into a country that you know is what it is and it will be United States.

BERMAN: Interesting. All right. Matthew Fogg, thanks so much for your insight, it's really appreciate it Sir.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

FOGG: Thank you.

BERMAN: Afraid to fight crime. Two Baltimore officers currently on the streets. They break their silence on CNN. This is an interview that could shed new light on the current controversy swirling around that city.

BOLDUAN: And moments ago investigators reveal whether the engineer in the deadly Amtrak crash in Philadelphia whether he was using his cell phone at the time of the tragedy. We have details on this announcement, ahead.

And the police officer involved in the pool party takedown has resigned. Well, now his lawyer will be speaking out about his client's behavior and his future. Will he face charges?

[11:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We have breaking news in the deadly Amtrak crash investigation, a crucial new finding just a short time ago the NTSB released a reporting including that the train's engineer was not using his cell phone for calls, text, or data at the time of the crash. Brandon Bostian had told officials that his cell phone was in his bag when the train jumped the tracks along a curve in Philadelphia. At the time it was going more than twice the speed limit.

BOLDUAN: And if you remember more than eight people were killed and more than 200 were injured in that accident, in that crash last month. Authorities have been looking obviously at a range of evidence to try and find out if either human error or a mechanical malfunction was behind this horrific tragedy. Mary Schiavo, is joining us now. She's a former inspector general at the Department of Transportation. Mary, thank you so much.

So this is - we finally have some more answers about what they have determined. They say, no calls, no text messages, no data usage and no Wi-Fi was used by the engineer. So where do they look next because as John was pointing out the train was going more than twice the suppose speed limit going around that curve.

MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION ANALYST: Well, you're exactly right, we have more answers now on the cell phone but the mystery continues. And this was no small feat, I think the NTSB is fairly certain of this, they said that they are going to continue to look at the data carrier or other cell phone provider because they do have some facilities not in the same time zone but it looked at 400,000 pieces of metadata with the phone and the engineer did provide it with the passcode to assist the NTSB and they found no evidence of it.

So, in this true remains as to why with no problem found on the train yet as the train malfunction as to why the speed was not reduced heading into this curve. So still a mystery to be resolved and with the engineer not having a memory yet of the accident that supposes a problem.

BERMAN: So what are the universe of possibilities, Mary based on what you have seen before in investigation? If it's not distracted driving as it were on the cell phone or something else. What else could it be?

SCHIAVO: Well, in most cases in the past, that's what it has been. Now, there had been a couple of accidents where there was a train malfunction that made it impossible to slow the train and literally and I won't say a runaway train but the train could not be put into the slower mode. But they didn't find the evidence of that.

Here now, it's possible that they just can't find it given the condition of the wreckage and they aren't able to find the particular malfunction and that's always a possibility. But in most accidents of this type of situation where the engineer just did not slow down that train or put on the brakes but so far, there is no evidence of any cause for distraction. Remember, we look at the strike on the windshield and that certainly might have distracted the driver, if he thought it had been hit by a stone or a bullet but the NTSB or rather the FBI has ruled that out as well.

BOLDUAN: And to this point, the engineer has said that he doesn't remember what that - those moments when the crash happens. So as you said, Mary, the mystery right now continues. Thanks so much, great to see you.

[11:15:00] SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning - of course. The Texas police officer involved in really looked like a brutal take down and trying to break out a riot in a pool party, that police officer has resigned. As you can see in this video, you can see that officer, Eric Casebolt slamming a 14-year-old girl to the ground.

BERMAN: Casebolt had been on administrative leave while the incident was being investigated. But he just stepped down, he resigned before the investigation was over. I want to talk about this Eric Guster, Criminal and Civil Trial Attorney, he joins us here in New York. Eric, I suppose what's the play now for this officer? What will

he try to do to stay out of trouble because his department has really cut ties with him completely. They have essentially said, good riddance.

ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL AND CIVIL ATTORNEY: They have. And what he's done is he resigned before the internal affairs investigation was done. That is a danger to the public because this man can now go get another job, he doesn't have this in his personnel file, so no one would know about it.

And well, don't know about it because the social media and the Internet but as far as them reviewing his personnel records, this won't even be a violation because the internal affairs investigation is close, that's why so many people are wanting him to be criminally charge so that it will follow him for the rest of his career.

BOLDUAN: Do you expect him to - so the internal investigation, that's close, do you expect him to face charges in the kind of realm of possibility and what you seen in the past? What do you think?

GUSTER: It's a slim chance of him getting charge because...

BOLDUAN: What would it be, assault?

GUSTER: It would be an assault, it would actually be a misdemeanor assault. Because if you would look at the tape, if that was any citizen besides a police officer, he would have been charged on the scene. He shoved this girl into the concrete, he put her face down on the ground and put both of his knees her back. That is clearly assault when she did not commit a crime. And that's what an assault simply is but I'm not sure he will be charged but the public is calling for one and I believe he should be.

BERMAN: But what about the department itself? What do you see as in the future for them? Because like I said, they seem flat out pleased that this guy just quit.

GUSTER: They are. And if you watch the tape and that's what we been discussing as well, if you watch the tape the other officer, they recall, they knew this is a drop of teenagers, let's tell them to disperse and when police show up whether it was teenage hanging out in the parking lot or in a park or doing something they shouldn't be once the police show up teenagers are gone. They are dispersing you know, like some of like when the lights cut on. So they know that the teenagers don't want to be there and they told them to leave and he still grabbed this girl (inaudible) and rest to the ground and assaulted her. And this is horrible and she's going to live with this for the rest her life. This horrible nasty bad experience.

BOLDUAN: Well, see I mean, they are still speaking out and we're going to hear from his attorney and hear what he has to say a little later today. And I think that will be interesting to see what his future is going to look like.

GUSTER: That will be. BOLDUAN: Thanks Eric, thanks so much.

GUSTER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: So crime and distrust is on rise in Baltimore. Are police looking the other way now in order to avoid confrontations, up next. Baltimore police officer - active Baltimore police officer they break their silence as they speak exclusively to CNN.

BERMAN: And then they are steps away from the president, not to mention the most sensitive classified material on earth. So why it happened? Some secret service agents had the proper national security clearance. Details on a new surprising setbacks for the agency.

[11:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: New this morning attorneys for the six Baltimore police officers charged in the arrest and death of Freddie Gray they are asking right now that the charges against them be dropped. If that doesn't happen, they want the prosecutor on the case. Marilyn Mosby, they want her to recuse herself from the case.

Now, since this incident, the city has seen a surge in the crime rate. May was the city's deadliest month in more than 40 years, 42 people were killed, leaving, of course, many to wonder why.

BERMAN: CNN's Brooke Baldwin spoke exclusively to two Baltimore officers still on the beat who say they now hesitate to step in and fight crime. They're afraid, they say, that police work caught get them in trouble. Now, they're speaking out without their department's permission, so CNN is not using their names or showing their faces. We've also modified their voices.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Since the riots, Baltimore has had the deadliest month in the city's history in nearly 42 years. I was just reading the papers this morning, a 16 year old died over the weekend and eight and a 10-year-old shot. Why is this happening?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because the criminal element feel as though that we're not going to chase them if they are armed with a gun and they're using this opportunity to settle oil, beef or source to people what they have conflict with. I think the public really, really sees that they are actually softer, less aggressive police department and we've given them that and now they'll realizing that their way of thinking does not work.

BALDWIN: Are the criminals right in thinking that you all will not arrest people as you would before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to - you have to run the risk of - you have to look at it like if I chase this guy who possibly has a gun and he gets hit by a car, what will I be charged with criminal negligence or possible armed suspect that I did not see the gun. That ruled to date is greater than what we just write to the next call and write a report. So these are things that we to wait when we arrived as a group of guys and we have to weigh when we're running past a group of guys on the corner. We run the risk of being criminally charged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're now in the reactive mode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're now in the total reactive mode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the result you get. Ultimately it does a service to the law abiding citizens. It does a disservice to business owners. To everybody but the criminal element because they are the warriors right now. They know that pretty much to whole police department has shifted to a reactive side. You have no more initiated stops per se.

[11:25:00] You know, an officer is worried. He's riding down the street. Even though you have a reasonable suspicion and you see a guy or girl walking down the street and there's a bulge coming in from their waistband and there's different characteristics that we're trained for to look for in an armed person. And I can tell you this and it's the truth. Nine out of ten times that officer's going to keep on driving.

BALDWIN: I understand the desire to self-protect but at the same time I'm thinking if I'm a resident of the city of Baltimore I'm sitting here and watching and the thinking this is not OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're right, it's not. But we need the public's help. That's the only element right now that's going to fix it. Because the people on our side do not have our backs.

BERMAN: Wow. All right. Brooke Baldwin joins us right now. And Brook, these are major comments. This is a very significant revelation. Because if you have cops on the street who are afraid to fight crime the system is broken. It doesn't work. Now, I understand the commissioner down there and had a chance to see this interview.

BALDWIN: I think he - one of the affiliates in Baltimore after we aired a snippet of it on my show yesterday, he was asked about the specific comment that we just played the whole - whether the officer said, listen, if we see criminality on the city street, night times now, we are going to drive on by. And so I think that budget was asked and this was posed to Commissioner Anthony Batts in Baltimore and he was saying, listen, I have been out on calls recently, I have seen officers being engaged on the streets. All of these officers have taken an oath to serve and protect and so they are obviously breaking that oath.

He's essentially saying if these two officers are telling me he said they're doing their jobs but they're terrified of going to jail. They're more terrified of going to jail than getting shot.

BOLDUAN: You heard these guys on our show say they don't have our back. What do you propose as a solution?

BALDWIN: Great question. It's sort of nebulous at this point. I asked does Marilyn Moseby have your backs, no? Does Stephanie Rawlings Blake have your back? No. Does Commissioner Anthony Batts have your cracks. No. Specially, on Marilyn Moseby because, it is frightening for people who in Baltimore, I said, this is not OK. And they agreed with me.

But it just came out in court documents because they want her recused from this case, especially now that it's come out that she apathy gave this directive down the chain to police essentially saying I want you to go out to the pen north corner. That's where the CVS was looted. When I asked one of the officers this morning to respond to that, that's key, because down the road if you're following the orders and you go down the road and you're charged, it regrets OK. One says it's confusing. I'm worried I'm going to get charged and I want to go home to my family at night.

BERMAN: This clearly has to be addressed. They have to feel like they can do their jobs. Hopefully this might...

BOLDUAN: With the citizens of Baltimore caught in the middle of it.

BERMAN: Brooke Baldwin, thank you so much. The whole interview is going to air on Brooke's show at 2:00 P.M. eastern time. Please watch. Very important.

BOLDUAN: There's going to be a lot coming out of that interview. We're always talking about this. Major embarrassment for the secret service. Dozens of new officers assigned to the White House and new positions, they were signed there before their security clearances have been checked out and completed. How did that happen? We're going to talk to a former agent coming up next.

BERMAN: All right. The drip, drip, drip of U.S. troop back to Iraq. The U.S. now considering hundreds more. One presidential contender says that's not nearly enough. So how many Americans would he be willing to deploy against ISIS?

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