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At This Hour

Documents Say Cosby Got Drugs to Give Women; Joan Tarshis, Other Women, Claim Cosby Raped Them; U.S. Trains Only 60 Syrian Fighters to Fight ISIS; Interview with Sen. Bill Nelson; Hillary Clinton Giving Exclusive CNN Interview. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 07, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:17] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: That's going to do it for me. Thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera.

AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A stunning admission. Bill Cosby says he obtained prescription drugs to use on women for sex. One of his accusers will join us. She says Cosby drugged her and assaulted her and she was just 19 years old. What's her reaction now?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: No ropes, no restrictions. Hillary Clinton's first interview with the national media since she entered the campaign. This is a CNN exclusive.

BOLDUAN: The man charged with killing a woman on a San Francisco pier is expected in court today. Big questions now about how this undocumented criminal was allowed to go free in the first place.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman.

Happening now, sex, drugs, and Bill Cosby. Court documents from 10 years ago, locked up and unseen until now, reveal that Bill Cosby admitted under oath that he obtained drugs, Quaaludes, for the express purpose of giving them to women that he wanted to have sex with. But he did stop short of saying that he actually drugged anyone without their knowledge.

BOLDUAN: More than two dozen women have gone public accusing Cosby of assault. Some of them call this revelation a game-changer and that they finally feel like they're being heard. Some of his most vocal defenders are also now out there changing their tune.

Sara Ganim is following all of the details.

The transcript of this deposition is fascinating.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is fascinating. Part of the reason why, well, first of all, we've never heard anything like his version of any kind of story, right? But then also you have the fact that not only did these women come forward and say that they were sexually assaulted by Cosby, many of them said that they remember he gave them a drink before hand, that many of them believed they had been drugged, and this context is important in light of what he said. Now, of course, this is 10-year-old testimony that's been sealed for a long time.

But I want to read you some of the details because they're really important. This is a deposition. He was answering questions from the attorneys. Here is one of them. He said -- the attorney asked him, when you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind that you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women you wanted to have sex with? Bill Cosby says yes. Then he's asked, you gave them to other people. He says yes again. Later on in the deposition though, he's asked this, did you ever give any of those young women the Quaaludes without their knowledge? And his attorney interrupts, he objects, he does not allow Bill Cosby to answer this question even though it's asked several different times, which is important, of course, in the context of, you know, giving someone Quaaludes is one thing, without their knowledge is different thing, especially in light of the rape allegations. I want to read you a little more. He talks about meeting a woman in Las Vegas and he says, she meets me backstage, I give her Quaaludes, we then have sex. Again, admitting to for the first time after so many years of denying everything, admitting to something even if it's not the rape, or any of these rapes.

Now, Bill Cosby's attorney is speaking out today saying, quote, the only reason Mr. Cosby settled, and he's talking about the lawsuit where this came from, is because it would have been embarrassing in those days to put all of those women on the stand and his family had no clue. That would have been very hurtful. You could guess that what they're talking about is some sort of admission of maybe affairs but nothing that amounts to rape.

BOLDUAN: Get the reaction to that statement and all of these stunning admissions and revelations very shortly. Sara laying out the details of what we're learning now in terms of Bill Cosby and the accusations against him.

Sara, thanks so much.

So as Sara mentioned, the statute of limitations has passed in most of these cases, so it's unlikely Cosby would face criminal prosecution following this bombshell.

BERMAN: Still, it is a huge moment for those women who say they are victims.

One of those women is Joan Tarshis. She claims Cosby raped her when she was 19 years old, and she joins us now.

Joan, thanks so much for being with us.

JOAN TARSHIS, ACCUSES BILL COSBY OF RAPE: You're welcome. Thank you.

BERMAN: So after all this time and all this relative silence from Bill Cosby, he has now said, we have now seen in a transcript from 10 years ago, he admits to having sex with him. He admits to giving drugs to women. What he does not admit to, his lawyer stepped in, so we don't know if he would, he does not admit to giving drugs to women without their knowledge. Still, when you saw this revelation, this stunning revelation, I'm wondering what the first thing you thought was.

[11:05:02] TARSHIS: The first thing I thought was, first of all, I was thrilled, and then I felt after all these years I'm validated, that really no one can call me a liar. Well, they can call me a liar, I guess, but it's more apt that they wouldn't call me a liar anymore.

BOLDUAN: That's a very good point, Joan. One thing that Sara Ganim also brought to us is a statement from Bill Cosby's attorney, his camp, kind of his team, if you will, and I found it really surprising. I want to get your reaction to it. Cosby team released this statement saying that the only reason Mr. Cosby settled and, he's talking about back in 2005, was because it would have been embarrassing in those days to put all of those women on the stand. So they basically are saying they're kind of looking out for you. What do you say to Bill Cosby and his team today?

TARSHIS: Well, considering that a lot of us have gone on international television talking about this, doing it in a closed courtroom I think would not have been embarrassing. I mean, I'm on CNN talking about it. How could I be embarrassed in a courtroom? That's just their cover. They didn't want to embarrass him.

BERMAN: So when you now see the details in this deposition, when you see him talking about this using words that he's really never used before, how does the story in this deposition from 2005 in this case, what are the similarities between that and what you say happened to you?

TARSHIS: Well, again, he doesn't say that he gave people drugs without their knowledge. They stopped him before that and he was asked many times, and his lawyers would not let him reply. If he had given us the drugs with their knowledge, he would have just said, no, they knew, but I didn't know. I had a cocktail and do not remember passing out. I sort of remember coming to in a very groggy, foggy state. I don't know whether he put a Quaaludes in my cocktail or what he put in my cocktail but I have never passed out from a Bloody Mary before.

BOLDUAN: Your story, your recollection, is very similar to that of the other women who have gone public and spoken out about Bill Cosby. Have you talked to any of the other women since this came out yesterday?

TARSHIS: Oh, sure. Oh, absolutely. I spoke to Barbara Bowman. We both did CNN last night, but before that, I didn't know we were going to do that. I called her, and we were just -- you know, I just said it's a good day for us and a bad day for him.

BERMAN: What now for you? I think the statute of limitations is long gone for you, but is there anything you and perhaps your lawyers are advising you to do with this new information?

TARSHIS: I just really want to see him deposed. BERMAN: And that would happen in a defamation case, right? It's

possible that someone suing Bill Cosby for defamation right now for responding to these charges against him verbally calming you liars, he could be deposed. You want to see him face more questions in that type of setting?

TARSHIS: Absolutely. Absolutely, I would. He was honest once. I don't know whether he'd be totally honest again. I'm shocked he even -- I'm surprised he didn't lie under oath, said, no, I didn't buy Quaaludes. I never knew these women. I guess he thought that was going to remain sealed forever, but it wasn't.

BERMAN: It certainly wasn't.

BOLDUAN: It was not.

BERMAN: 10 years is a long time, but it is not forever.

Joan Tarshis, we appreciate you coming on and telling your story, giving us your reaction. Thanks so much.

TARSHIS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Joan.

BERMAN: We have a shocking admission from the defense secretary. How many moderate Syrians have been trained to fight ISIS? 60! 60! How can 60 fighters take on this terror group? We'll ask a U.S. Senator, next.

BOLDUAN: Breaking her silence and speaking exclusively to CNN. What can voters expect to hear from Hillary Clinton in her first nationally televised interview, and what's behind her shift now in her campaign's media strategy?

BERMAN: And just now, the South Carolina Senate votes to remove the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds. These could be the final moments for this controversial symbol in that location of honor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:12:50] BERMAN: Happening now, the defense secretary makes a stunning admission in the battle against ISIS. Before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Ash Carter just said that the U.S. has trained only 60 Syrian fighters to help the coalition face the terror group. That's right, 60 fighters against ISIS in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHTON CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It was much smaller than we'd hoped for at this point partly because of the vetting standards I just described. But we know this program is essential. We need a partner on the ground in Syria to assure ISIL's lasting defeat.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: And just yesterday, President Obama, speaking at the Pentagon, said that the fight against ISIS will not be quick, calling it a long-term campaign.

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Bill Nelson, senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senator, thank you very much. It's always great to have you.

So the Secretary of Defense Ash Carter and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, they testified before your committee this morning. And talking about U.S. efforts, as John pointed out, in Syria against ISIS, Secretary Carter said again only 60 Syrian fighters are currently being trained by the U.S. He admitted that is much smaller than they had hoped for. What did you think when you heard that?

SEN. BILL NELSON, (D-FL) SENIOR MEMBER, SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: 60 have been vetted, another 7,000 are being vetted, and it's no doubt when you get into a place like Syria, you don't know who is friend and who is foe, and one of the last things we want to do is to train up people that are then going to turn around and use that against us. So they go through an extensive vetting period, and, unfortunately, it is a low number. 60 have been done. Now they're being trained, but another 7,000 are being vetted.

[11:14:55] BERMAN: 7,000 are being vetted, but at this rate, there's no guarantee they'll get more than a few more dozen by the end of the year. Senator Nelson, Chairman McCain said that there is simply no willing ground force in Syria or in Iraq at this point there to help the coalition. These willing ground troops, again, moderate Syrian rebels in Syria and perhaps the Iraqi military itself in Iraq, they are a key component to the White House long-term strategy that Kate was talking about. If they are not there in significant numbers, and 60 is not a significant number, then can this long-term plan work?

NELSON: Well, you've got to separate Iraq and Syria. It's two --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Just do Syria then.

NELSON: But you brought in Iraq, so I want to address that. But Syria, we are committed to helping train the Free Syrian Army. If you look at a map of who controls where in Syria right now, it is a hodgepodge of a whole bunch of groups between the Assad regime, all kinds of different rebels, including the Free Syrian Army, other extremist groups in addition to is, al Nusra. It is a very complicated situation, and it's going to be a long time solving. When you move over to Iraq, basically the Iraqis are going to have to have the will to fight and no amount of training, and we have trained 10,000, we have 3,500 U.S. military personnel. There are another 3,000 being trained right now. But no amount of training, unless the Iraqis are willing to fight, our training is not going to help. So it's to be determined. Now, you get with somebody like the Kurds, the Kurds want to fight. The Peshmerga has shown that they've got the instinct to fight and we definitely know that our help there has helped.

BOLDUAN: Senator, the president yesterday said this is not going to be quick, talking about degrading and defeating ISIS, this is a long- term campaign, he said, in fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria. What does a long-term campaign look like for you? Have you gotten any time table of what's the target here? I mean that's one of the biggest criticisms coming from Senator McCain. He says that none of the so- called progress that Obama cites suggests that we're on a path to success.

NELSON: First of all, with Iraq, I think we will know fairly soon if this sectarian separation of Sunnis and Shiites, if there is a willingness to train up Sunnis that will fight in an army that is ultimately controlled by a Shiite government. We're going to know that pretty soon. We've got 3,500 military personnel there training. Over in Syria, it's going to be a long time coming, just exactly what the president said.

BERMAN: To be determined, and we will know soon. That's not exactly definitive --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: A long time coming, that's going to be tough.

BERMAN: -- at this point.

BOLDUAN: Senator, it's great to see you. Thank you very much.

NELSON: Thanks. Have a great day.

BOLDUAN: You, too.

Coming up for us, unlike her Democratic and Republican competition, Hillary Clinton has, by and large, avoided reporters since she launched her presidential campaign. Not anymore. Today, Clinton sits down for an exclusive interview with our Brianna Keilar. That is ahead.

BERMAN: The testimony Bill Cosby never wanted public. He admits to getting drugs to use on women for sex. Could these newly released court documents reopen old cases?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:14] BOLDUAN: A CNN exclusive. Hillary Clinton will be sitting down with CNN this afternoon, her first nationally televised interview since she threw her hat in the ring back in April.

BERMAN: As far as we know, it will be a rope-free interview. The Clinton campaign has been criticized for literally keeping the press at a distance, like this weekend in New Hampshire. Here are the pictures.

Joining us now to discuss this big interview today, CNN senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny; and CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

Jeff, let me start with you.

When it comes to the Clinton campaign and the media, the relationship is, shall we say, complicated. Any relationship with ropes is complicated.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: OK, OK.

BERMAN: So the question today, Jeff, why do you think the campaign is coming up -- it was a matter of time before they started doing national media, national interviews, why today? What do they want to get out of this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, let's untie this for a minute.

(LAUGHTER)

Last rope joke.

We first have to recognize this is what presidential candidates do, they give interviews, and Hillary Clinton is actually slower in this than all of her rivals across the Democratic field and the Republican field. But, look, they were always going to sort of move towards that phase of answering questions and laying out why she wants to be president, and perhaps it increased a little bit because she feels some heat on her left from Bernie Sanders. Again last night in Portland, Maine, Bernie Sanders attracted some 8,000 people at a rally. That comes on the heels of about 2,500 people in Council Bluffs, Iowa, and 10,000 people in Wisconsin last week. So she's feeling a little bit of heat here. So she wants to sort of get out there and explain why she's running for president. And a pretty good time to do it as well. There's so much of a side show going on, on the Republican side with Donald Trump and everyone else. This gives her a chance to sort of show that she has ideas and she's ready to lead.

BOLDUAN: And that's a really interesting point.

And, Nia, she'll be sitting down in Iowa with Brianna Keilar, and just take a look on the topic of Iowa, take a look at the Quinnipiac poll, and this goes to your point you're making, Jeff, taking heat from the left. From may to June -- I'm sorry, May to July, just look how Clinton's numbers have gone down in terms of Iowa Democrats' choice for Democratic candidate for president, and then look at Sanders' numbers, almost doubling if you look at that. It's really amazing the shift you have seen just since may. Do you really think -- how much do you think that has to do with the strategy, the shift in strategy for the timing to come out now to really face some tough questions, Nia?

[11:24:47] NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It's impossible to ignore what Sanders has done, and it's also to ignore what happened in 2008 when Hillary Clinton came in third, was beat obviously by not only Barack Obama but John Edwards as well. So they are certainly thinking about that. It's a good time I think for them to shift. As Jeff said, this was always part of a plan to sort of start small, but I think they also didn't anticipate that Sanders would be so out front and really he's been able to create this movement momentum, right? Reminiscent of Obama.

But the folks I talk to in the Clinton staff also have a bit of an attack on Sanders, and that is he hasn't been able to prove that he has any momentum among the Obama coalition, those African-American voters, Latino voters, younger voters. So far he's been able to draw these large crowds largely those crowds have been predominantly white, a state like Maine a state like Vermont, a state like even Wisconsin. It was in Madison and largely white crowds there.

So they are interested to see and also interested to double down on what they've been doing so far which is really try to dig in their heels with that Obama coalition, a lot of the speeches they have given have been about issues that are important to that coalition. They're waiting to see what Sanders is able to do in terms of making inroads there.

BERMAN: Jeff, in terms of a new media strategy, I have been fascinated, if there is one, I have been fascinated with the way Clinton folks are talking about Bernie Sanders because they're not really, although Nia brought up a point there is some criticism there. In some cases they're going out of their way to point out how well he's doing. I mean, there's a big "New York Times" article, your old paper, where you have blind quotes saying we're surprised he's doing well. He could do even better in Iowa. It almost seems like they're glad it's happening now, and they're inviting this competition now and they're trying to create a different set of expectations now from what we may see in February.

ZELENY: John, you know what campaigns do at this time of the year, they lower expectations. And reading that story in my alma mater, "The New York Times," this morning, that's exactly what I took away from it. While the Clinton campaign is trying to lower their expectations for Iowa. They're trying to say Bernie Sanders is coming on strong, we're taking him seriously. At this point they are definitely keeping an eye on him, but she's certainly not attacking him at all. So I think that there is, one, a sense of sort of happiness in - the Clinton campaign in Brooklyn, in their headquarters, that it is Bernie Sanders and it's not someone else. Because they all sort of know at the end of the day Bernie Sanders is unlikely to be the Democratic nominee. He's a Socialist. Most voters say that's not what they're looking for. So I think it's a bit of expectation setting here for Iowa.

The question is, the challenge is, when does this enthusiasm come for the Clinton campaign? When is she going to get these big crowds? When is she going to get this excitement that Bernie Sanders is getting?

BERMAN: That's a great point.

We should note Portland, Maine, isn't in Iowa or New Hampshire. It is, in fact, in Maine. That could be something going on here.

Jeff Zeleny, Nia-Malika Henderson, great to see you, guys.

HENDERSON: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: See you, guys.

BERMAN: Today is the big day, the day of this exclusive CNN interview, Hillary Clinton's first interview with the national media as a presidential candidate. You can see it today on "The Situation Room" at 5:00 p.m. and on "A.C. 360" at 8:00 p.m. eastern. Again, that's only on CNN.

A lot of news today. The bombshell admission by Bill Cosby testifying to getting prescription drugs to use on women for sex. Could these really stunning details help the cases of other women who accuse Cosby of sexual assault?

BOLDUAN: Also ahead, the Confederate flag still flying on South Carolina state capitol grounds, but for how much longer? The state Senate has weighed in. Now House lawmakers will have their say. Will the measure to bring down the flag pass as easily in the House as it did in the Senate just this morning?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)