Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

Tension in St. Louis After Police-Involved Shooting; Cornel West Says Huckabee Wrong on Black Lives Matter; Trump, Bush Attack Each Other in Dueling Town Halls; Shots Fired Between North, South Korea. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired August 20, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:31:57] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, escalating tensions in the city of St. Louis after a night of unrest where protesters took to the streets, upset over a deadly officer-involved shooting of a young African-American man. You can see the tension on the streets there. Tear gas used after authorities say the crowd began throwing bricks at the officer. Police killed a man while executing a search warrant. Officials say he pointed a gun at them forcing, the officers to fire.

Joining us now is CNN's Ryan Young, who is in St. Louis. Also with me here in New York is Cornel West, a civil rights activist and professor emeritus at Princeton University, who was, just last week, arrested in St. Louis, I should say, amid the continued demonstrations about the events in nearby Ferguson.

Ryan, I want to start with you.

What happened last night? Give us the chain of events.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, a tough night here in St. Louis. You can see behind me right now it's all calm here but what we found out is after that shooting people started amassing in the street. They were upset about this and then officers showed up with their riot gear. Then someone started tossing water bottles and rocks towards the officers. At some point they used what they said was smoke bombs and people became upset and they started throwing things back towards the officers. At some point someone set a car on fire and then it moved to a building and things spiraled out of control. Then the officers moved forward and the crowd pushed them back. It went back and forth for some time. Nine people were arrested, and that 18-year- old who was shot, police were telling us they found three stolen guns in the area near where he was shot. There's a second man they're looking for and they believe he's armed and dangerous as well. The reason they were executing a search warrant, a man was robbed. In fact, it was a Tuskegee Airman. His car was stolen. They were trying to recover some of the stolen goods. They were trying to execute the search warrant and all these events unfolded. Now people are wondering what will happen over the next 24 hours after everything that happened last night -- John?

BERMAN: Ryan Young, a complicated night in St. Louis.

I turn to Professor West. I think there's a discussion right now about the police tactics about

what happened after the demonstration started. But I want to go back even before that to the idea of the protests and the demonstration and where we are right now in the country because there was this search warrant served on this 18-year-old man suspected of having weapons. Police say they found stolen weapons and also I believe some drugs in the house. So is every officer involved shooting at this point, in and of itself, necessarily objectionable and a cause for protest?

[11:34:49] CORNEL WEST, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY & CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, I think the real challenge here is -- and I'm thinking really of that wonderful moment with Jimmy Carter with that need for spiritual sensitivity, the need for integrity, the need to understand. And when we really tell the truth, then we have to allow suffering to speak. We're going to see this over and over again until we have quality education, jobs with a living wage, black self love on behalf of my own folk, and an acknowledgment of the degree to which we can't have 1 percent of the population owning 42 percent of the wealth and the social neglect of these precious brothers and sisters with guns and with drugs. Individual responsibility is crucial.

But back to Jimmy Carter, look at his sensitivity to the vulnerable. Juxtapose Jimmy Carter with our dear brother, Donald Trump. A lot of authenticity in Donald Trump. I love it. No real integrity, no real sensitivity to Mexican brothers and sisters and others. We need a national atmosphere which is the opposite of what we have here, a national atmosphere of the spirit of Jimmy Carter that says, I could be wrong, but I'm concerned about the least of these. We've got to ensure that the most powerful are rendered accountable.

Jimmy Carter had the courage to do that even in the Middle East, escalating anti-Semitism in the world, but also a very ugly Israeli occupation. How do you walk that tightrope? We don't have leaders like that.

BERMAN: Let's take it down then to the street level last night in St. Louis.

WEST: Yes.

BERMAN: We don't know all the details.

WEST: That's right. We've got to get the facts.

BERMAN: We have to get the facts.

WEST: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Before the facts all come out, it just seems that the protesters, who were out there, whatever the facts they were told or whatever facts they may be told, they're already upset over what happened. They're already saying something went wrong here when I don't know that the facts suggest it yet.

WEST: We lost a precious life. Another young black brother is shot. Happens every 28 hours. It's happened for seven years in the making. Every 28 hours a black person is shot by vigilante police or security guard. Granted, we have a black president, black attorney general, that hasn't translated - into justice for folk on the ground. What do we do? We've got to shift to a Carter-like spirit, and that's the legacy of martin king and that's the legacy of Fannie Lou Hamer.

BERMAN: Is that what the Black Lives Matter movement is doing?

WEST: It's just a moment in the black freedom struggle. The black freedom struggle is about sustained catastrophe and responding with sustained compassion.

BERMAN: You say it's just one chapter now in the overall --

(CROSSTALK)

WEST: 400 years. Think about it this way though, Brother John. I think about this in relation to Donald Trump because his mother is from Scotland. His grandfather is from Germany. My people have been here 400 years. He just got here but he wants to define who ought to get here. Wait a minute, where is the sensitivity to the weak and vulnerable? That's what Martin King and the others were talking about. He recognizes the game was rigged in terms of the 30 years he participated as a donor, well, for 30 years participating in the rigging of the game. Where is the integrity? That's what Jimmy Carter is about.

BERMAN: We're not going to mark you down as a Trump voter.

WEST: I just want to be honest with Trump. Why does he lack integrity? Why does he lack the truth telling? Why did he wait so late to deal with the confidence game he was a part of for so long. That's what St. Louis is about because St. Louis is a spiritual condition. It's not just political. If you're always looking to Wall Street and not concerned about Main Street, you already have a disorientation of your soul in terms of how a democracy operates.

BERMAN: Let's keep it on politics a little bit and Martin Luther King. Mike Huckabee said Dr. King would be appalled, appalled by the Black Lives Matter movement.

WEST: What was his argument?

BERMAN: He was suggesting that he thinks the way they are protesting and the unrest, in some cases, that they're causing, that Dr. King would be appalled by it.

WEST: No, no, I think Brother Huckabee is just wrong about that. King was accused of engaging in disruption. He was accused of being un-American and moving too quickly. The crucial thing about it -- and here I think is most fundamental -- King said that love must be at the center of it, and justice is what love looks like in public. And that is a challenge I think, that's why we need a marshal plan for the cities. That's why my dear Brother Bernie Sanders, I might disagree with him on this issue and that, but he is a prophetic politician in terms of his love of working people and critique of wall spirit. You know how critical I am of both parties --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: It's always like being in class. I appreciate you being here.

WEST: Always a pleasure.

[11:39:46]BERMAN: Let the verbal jabs fly. We're going to talk about the campaign. Donald Trump and Jeb Bush go after each other at town hall events. We'll have that battle ahead.

Then shots fired, tensions rise. North and South Korea, on edge. And this is no exercise, folks. Real live fire here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Jeb Bush and front-runner Donald Trump turning into Frazer and Ali in the race. Jeb Bush on the ropes, but now punching back. Listen to an excerpt of the thrilla in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: He's very low energy.

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

TRUMP: Do you know what's happening to Jeb's crowd right down the street? They're sleeping.

He was supposed to do well in New Hampshire. He's going down like a rock.

BUSH: Look, Mr. Trump has clearly got talent. There's no denying that. But when people look at his record, it is not a conservative record. Even on immigration where it's -- you know, look, the language is pretty vitriolic for sure.

TRUMP: The only thing constant is Trump. All of them change on the bottom. They're going up and down like yo-yos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: The thrilla in New Hampshire. Dueling town halls last night.

Let's bring in CNN political commentators, Dan Pfeiffer and Ana Navarro. Dan is a former adviser to the president. Ana is a good friend of Marco Rubio, but a big-time to Jeb Bush supporter, and a big-time Floridian.

Ana, let me show you a new poll out of Florida right now where Donald Trump is leading Jeb Bush, the former governor of Florida, in a poll right now. Tell me, Ana, do you think it's a good idea for Jeb to be punching back at Donald Trump?

[11:45:23]ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's great. I almost want to get up and dance. Hallelujah. You know, it's finally happened. Look, Trump is running against 16 other people but the way he's focused on Jeb, you would think he's only runs against Jeb Bush. If you want to make it a hand-to-hand combat between Bush and Trump, I couldn't think of a more stark choice for voters to have. I hope they go at it at the debate. People aren't going to need to say Jeb needs to bring in the energy. I want him to show that same energy and continue making a contrast between his record and Donald Trump's record. So I think this is good for Donald Trump. I think it's good for Jeb Bush, and I think it's good for voters because they get to see the contrast. Remember, John, there was another guy who had a town hall at the same time as Jeb Bush and Donald Trump last night in New Hampshire. Nobody is even talking about him.

BERMAN: It's a good point. So you want him to go from a joyful tortoise to a spry turtle.

But there are risks, Dan Pfeiffer. You noted on Twitter a few moments ago that being pulled into a fight for Donald Trump for Jeb Bush does have some problems.

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think on paper this is the right thing to do. Donald Trump is right that Jeb Bush has been, quote, "sinking like a rock." He's struggled. He's behind him in every state, including his home state in the most recent CNN poll. Jeb Bush is less electable than Donald Trump so he is a challenge. My view is if he's going to throw a punch, he should really throw a punch. I thought his performance at the town hall was really sort of pitiful. There was no energy. It was very milquetoast. If he's going to do it, he has to be willing to show some passion, show some fight and stand on the debate stage next to Trump and make the case to his face and do it with passion and be able to handle the counter punch because everyone else who has punched Trump has lost the fight. We're going to see if Jeb Bush has more fight.

BERMAN: But he's also engaging sort of on Trump's field because Trump is using the phrase anchor baby to talk about babies born to illegal immigrants in the states and now Jeb Bush using the same language, Dan.

PFEIFFER: I think Jeb Bush made the case when he was going to run he was going to offer an inclusive message, reach out to communities, but because he's behind Trump, he's speaking Trumps language. He's using a term I think many find offensive. If Jeb Bush were to be the nominee, he will regret and suffer from having been pulled into this debate with Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Ana, I want to give you a chance to talk about polls that may bring you some joy. And that's on the Democratic side where Joe Biden in this new Quinnipiac poll, Joe Biden's doing better against Republican candidates than Hillary Clinton is in these key swing states. What does that tell you?

NAVARRO: You know, I'm not surprised by it at all. I will tell you that I know Joe Biden, and I know Joe Biden has been in Florida a lot during his long career in public service. He's very well liked here, and I do think that, you know, instead of focusing so much on Jeb's problems, Dan should be focusing on Hillary Clinton's problems which are great and numerous. You know, we have a Trump problem. Hillary Clinton has a Hillary problem, and I would say that's a much more serious problem than what we're facing. She's going down in every poll. She's under 50 percent in these three swing states of Florida, Ohio, and --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Pennsylvania.

NAVARRO: Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania where Joe Biden is doing great. Of course, Joe Biden is an adopted son of Pennsylvania. So I think she's got a host of problems. You're talking about how Jeb did in the town hall yesterday. Let's talk about how Hillary did in her press conference where, number one, she was flippant about being investigated and, number two, she was testy and thin-skinned about getting asked about it.

BERMAN: Well, we have successfully raised a lot of problems now. We will try to focus and answer some of those problems another time.

(LAUGHTER)

Dan Pfeiffer, Ana Navarro, thanks so much. Great to see you guys.

NAVARRO: Thank you.

PFEIFFER: Thank you.

[11:49:34] BERMAN: Shots fired. Threats of more violence. These threats coming over a loud speaker. North Korea warns the South to stop its psychological warfare or else. We'll explain.

And he thought he only had weeks to live, but now surprisingly at ease, former President Jimmy Carter about to begin treatment for cancer spots on his brain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Happening now the Pentagon monitoring escalating tensions between North and South Korea. More than just tensions. The two countries exchanged fire. North Korea fired the first shot taking aim at a loudspeaker broadcasting anti-Pyongyang propaganda across the border. South Korea retaliated with 36 artillery shells.

Want to bring in Kathy Novak, CNN's Kathy Novak, from Seoul.

Kathy, we hear threats all the time. It's been some time since we've seen live fire between the two countries.

KATHY NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and the tensions have been ramping up the last couple of weeks. South Korea's military on high alert and the president ordering it to sternly take action against North Korea's provocation. This is all happening as the United States is holding joint military drills with South Korea. We know Pyongyang threatened to attack the U.S. mainland over that. It's angry about the propaganda messages being broadcast through the loudspeaker that you referred to there. Now this is part of psychological warfare, something South Korea hasn't done in more than ten years and Pyongyang threatened to blow up the speakers. It threatened indiscriminate threats against South Korea and after this exchange of fire it issued an ultimatum. If South Korea does not stop the broadcasts by 5:00 p.m. on Saturday, Seoul time, North Korea will take military action.

BERMAN: Has South Korea responded to that? Do they continue to broadcast?

[11:55:06] NOVAK: As far as we know, it is continuing to broadcast. And as we know the president chaired a meeting of the National Security Council ordering stern action against North Korea. Now these psychological warfare methods were taken in retaliation for land mines that South Korea was blaming on North Korea. Those badly injured two South Korean soldiers -- John?

BERMAN: All right. This tension showing no signs of abating. We'll have to watch it very closely.

Kathy, thanks so much.

And thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:10] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to "Legal View."