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At This Hour

NYPD Takes Down Former Tennis Star James Blake; Donald Trump Goes after Ben Carson; Interview with Ben Carson's Business Manager; Demonstrators on Capitol Hill Demand New Gun Legislation. Aired 11:30- 12p ET

Aired September 10, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00] TOM VERNI, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: Using the element of surprise is always better than saying -- because most people when you ask them, sir, could you please put your hands behind your back, they generally don't.

However, having said that, based on what the commissioner said, it appears he may have used more force than was necessary at that point. What's going to happen now being put on modified assignment is not unusual --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right

VERNI: -- when internal affairs is investigating.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

VERNI: Again, internal affairs will do their investigation. They will find out via video, via the testimony of the officers and any other witnesses whether or not the force that was used was appropriate and by guidelines, and if it wasn't, he will be taken care of appropriately.

BERMAN: Blake is mixed race, right? And Blake said in an interview last night, he goes, I don't know whether race was a factor. He's trying not to focus on that. But a lot of people asking today is, would this have ever happened to a white guy? Would a white --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Being taken down like this?

BERMAN: -- have been taken down like this.

VERNI: Who knows? I don't think race was a factor here, other than the fact that the person wanted in connection with this investigation was a light-skinned male black.

BOLDUAN: Bratton called it nonsense.

VERNI: Well, to say he was taken down because he was black is nonsense. The fact he was apprehended and he fit the almost identical description that was given to the police is a perfect example of policing 101. When someone identifies someone and says that's the guy, I'm absolutely sure that's the guy, 110 percent, you can't get any better than that. So the police did have good reason to stop him. Now, how they stopped him and apprehended him is a big question mark.

BERMAN: Blake isn't making race part of this but he also isn't taking the commissioner's phone calls.

BOLDUAN: True, and he's saying it is because an example of excuses if use of force, and that's going to be the investigation we have to follow.

VERNI: It's important to point out, we'll never see that picture of the person they were talking about. They got the picture from Instagram through a service provider, and so because the person that was in the picture, apparently, was not related to the case, we'll actually never be able to see the picture of it. We'll only be able to rely on the one who says --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: The purpose of this stakeout in the beginning is faulty.

OK, Boris, great to see you.

BERMAN: Thank you, Boris.

BOLDUAN: Tom, great to see you.

BERMAN: Thank you, Tom.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, Donald Trump unleashing on his presidential rival Dr. Ben Carson, calling him an OK doctor, saying he makes Jeb Bush look like the Energizer bunny. Ben Carson's business manager, a confidant, is going to be joining us live to respond.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:36:00] BOLDUAN: Donald Trump hits back questioning the faith and career of his closest competition in the polls right now, Dr. Ben Carson.

Listen to what Trump said this morning right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): No, I have known Ben Carson, of him, for a long time. I never heard faith was a big thing until just recently.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, NEW DAY: He's a Seven Day Adventist.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It's something he talks about a lot.

TRUMP: And all of a sudden, he becomes this great religious figure. I don't think he's a great religious figure and I saw him yesterday quoting something on humility and it looked like he had just memorized it two minutes before he made the quote, so, you know, don't tell me about Ben Carson --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But Ben Carson is coming at you, too. He says --

TRUMP: He's starting to hit me so I hit back. I only hit back when I get hit. I'm a great counter puncher.

CUOMO: Let me ask you --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Ben Carson, you're talking about his faith -- excuse me, Chris --

CUOMO: Please.

TRUMP: -- go back and look at his past. Look at his views on abortion and see where he stands. You talk about abortion. I mean, go back and look at his views on abortion. Now all after sudden he gets on very low key. Frankly, he looks like -- he makes Bush look like the Energizer bunny. Who is he to question my faith when I am -- you know, he doesn't even know me. I have met him a few times, but I don't know Ben Carson. He was a doctor, perhaps an OK doctor, by the way. You can check that out, too. We are not talking about a great -- he was an OK doctor.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I don't know about OK doctor. You know, he was the first man to separate conjoined twins.

TRUMP: Because he's a doctor and he hired one nurse he's going to end up being the president of the United States?

He shouldn't be questioning my faith because, number one, I'm leading with the evangelicals. I'm Protestant, I'm Presbyterian. I have great relationships with the people of Iowa, with New Hampshire, with South Carolina. And he shouldn't be questioning my faith. You know why? Because he knows nothing about me. I met him a couple of times.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Joining us now to respond, Armstrong Williams, Ben Carson's business manager, a close friend of Dr. Carson.

Armstrong, thank you for being with us.

Let me ask you right off the bat, Donald Trump said, you know, Ben Carson is only an OK doctor. Questioned his faith. Have you had a chance to talk to Dr. Carson today to see how he feels about this?

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER & FRIEND: Of course. BERMAN: What did he tell you?

WILLIAMS: Listen, first, Dr. Carson in no way was questioning Mr. Trump's faith. He would never minimize Mr. Trump's faith or anyone's faith. It's just not his style. Dr. Carson was talking about his faith, his faith in God, his humility, and what drives him. Obviously these issues are very sensitive to Mr. Trump, and it appears as though that Mr. Trump need a reason to not only attack Dr. Carson and Carly Fiorina, and he certainly found an opening to do so because, I mean, not just talk about the issue of faith, but the other things that he included in his remarks on CNN was just really disappointing actually for Dr. Carson. It was really actually sad to hear his statements.

BERMAN: I got to say, like, someone said I was a lousy journalist, it kind of tick me off. He called Ben Carson, essentially, an OK doctor. Any anger from Carson?

WILLIAMS: Of course not. Dr. Carson in the 18,000 people he has performed surgeries on during his incredible career can speak to that. You know, it's interesting that Dr. Carson in his conversation with Ben Terry at the "Washington Post" this morning apologized if he -- to Mr. Trump if Mr. Trump felt that were the case. Obviously this has become a media circus where you're pitting candidates against one another. It doesn't happen solve the many issues we have going forward. You think about the crisis. We talk about he said/she said, and then you just fly off the handle and respond to it. To us, Mr. Trump, which is very disturbing for us, sounded almost like a school- yard bully, that if you say something, I don't like, that I'm going to come after you and everything is on the table. And while we have tremendous respect for Mr. Trump and Dr. Carson has great admiration for Mr. Trump and all the candidates, Mr. Trump should understand that Dr. Carson is a neurosurgeon, and Dr. Carson will not be intimidated by Mr. Trump's words or his hitting below the belt. Dr. Carson will always challenge Mr. Trump and anyone else on the issues if he disagrees with them whether it's immigration and what to do with sending people back instead of them remaining here and it will always be a principle position, and so if this is Mr. Trump's tactic, which was really disturbing to us, Dr. Carson is more than prepared to talk about the issues, talk about how he would move this country forward, and he looks forward to seeing Mr. Trump next week right here on CNN during the next presidential debate.

[11:41:01] BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Let me ask you, on this issue of faith, this came up yesterday. Dr. Carson was asked about the biggest difference between essentially between Donald Trump and himself, and he said, "I have realized where my success has come from and I don't in any way deny my faith in God and I think that is the big difference." He goes on to say, "I don't get that impression, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get that impression essentially from Donald Trump."

You say that he was not trying to question the faith of Donald Trump. Did Dr. Carson misspeak then?

WILLIAMS: You know, I think it was more an issue of humility and not being boastful and bragging. I know these seem to be very sensitive issues that get someone like Mr. Trump Rhode Island up, but it was not necessary l necessarily about his faith. We can understand how it came across that way after Dr. Carson revisited what he said and after he realized that he could see how Mr. Trump could interpret it and being the man he is that's why he apologized to the post.

BERMAN: He flat-out said, "I believe in God. I fear the lord. With Trump, I don't get that impression." Really just-flat out said that he doesn't believe that Trump has the same faith that he does.

WILLIAMS: That is certainly the way you guys are interpreting it and spinning it on every frame of the hour, and I'm certainly getting great ratings for you. But for us, Dr. Carson has said what he needed to say about that issue.

But there's a deeper issue here in terms of how far Mr. Trump went in the things that he said not only about Dr. Carson but about Carly Fiorina. It's much deeper than the appearance that he was set off by that statement. It was as though he was waiting for a reason. It seems in the other statements he made on CNN, when he mentioned that Dr. Carson, nor Carly Fiorina could ever become president of the United States, one could wonder whether or not Donald Trump feels that no one should be in the race except Donald Trump? It's useless for anybody to show up at the debate next week because, in Donald Trump's mind maybe he believes that he's already won and nothing else needs to be said.

BOLDUAN: Armstrong Williams, stick with us. We'll take a quick break and come back and continue this conversation.

Thanks so much for joining with us and stick right here with us. We'll be right back here with more with Armstrong Williams, a close confident and business manager of Ben Carson's, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:11] BERMAN: Back with us Armstrong Williams, a close friend of Dr. Ben Carson, an adviser, a business manager. Armstrong is with us responding to this back and forth between Ben Carson and Donald Trump, maybe more forth than back, depending how you look at it. This morning, Donald Trump questioned Ben Carson's skills as a doctor, questioned his faith.

Armstrong, you told us that Dr. Carson will not be intimidated. The CNN debate six days away right now. What is the best way for Dr. Carson, for any candidate, how will Dr. Carson respond to Donald Trump, a man you just called a schoolyard bully?

WILLIAMS: Yes. In no way are we trying to disrespect Mr. Trump. Dr. Carson, as Mr. Trump has said time and time again, actually thought they would developed some kind of friendship, some kind of understanding, and it was clear from Candidate Trump this morning that he said he barely knew the man, had no idea who he was. I mean, you can't take those statements lightly in terms of his mentality and how he thinks. And so, you know, you just have to back off and say, whoa, wait a minute, what's going on here? And so -- and he has every right to say that. But, look, we believe that temperament, judgment, calmness, how you communicate is very important to this presidential race. While you may talk about immigration, you may talk about is and all these other important issues, but discipline and respect for each other. I mean, not referring to Carly Fiorina in this magazine as ugly. That is not presidential. Dr. Carson would never do that, and Dr. Carson will only wish well for Mr. Trump, and we don't want to see Mr. Trump play into the hands of the media and self-destruct. He plays a very important role in this presidential election. He's bringing issues like immigration that would not be talked about were it not for him. But in all of that, temperament, judgment, how you communicate with journalists, whether it's Jorge Ramos or Megyn Kelly or what he said to Chris Cuomo this morning. That's why your ratings are so low. He's beyond that. His advisers need to get their arms around him and say, man, you're too valuable to the process to be communicating like this because you will self-destruct and he will.

BOLDUAN: With all of that in mind, Mr. Williams, I wonder, two weeks ago, Dr. Carson on "State of the Union," he left the door open. He said he was not ruling out essentially a Trump/Ben Carson ticket. Obviously, he also followed up and said it's too early to have those discussions, but what has just happened in the past 24 hours, does that change

WILLIAMS: If there was anything to change, that was a conversation that the press talked to Dr. Carson about. Dr. Carson said it was possible. In his mind, when he speaks that way, anything is possible.

[11:50:09] BOLDUAN: But -- so anything is still possible, is all you're saying?

WILLIAMS: Anything is possible. Anything is possible.

Look, we're not going to take this isolated situation and what Mr. Trump communicated this morning and say that this is it. We believe he may have been angry. He may have believed what he read in politico. He may have been hurt. He may have been crying out of pain because he felt he did have a closeness with Dr. Carson and he felt he did question his faith. We could understand that. We're human beings and we can react and say things we regret and take them back. Over the next few days, you asked this question earlier, do we plan to reach out to Mr. Trump? Absolutely not. Mr. Trump should reach out to Dr. Carson and apologize for what he said this morning. And hopefully, if he does, Dr. Carson will reach back, this issue will be settled, and we'll move on to the critical issues of this country.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating conversation.

BERMAN: Armstrong Williams, thank you so much for being with us. We do appreciate your time.

A reminder, the CNN debate with both Donald Trump and Ben Carson six days away.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Mr. Williams.

BERMAN: Back in just a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Happening now, on Capitol Hill, demonstrators from across the country gathering and demanding new legislation they say to reduce gun violence. This is part of the national Whatever It Takes Day of Action. Whatever It Takes being the pledge of Andy Parker, father of Alison Parker, who was shot and killed while reporting in Virginia in August.

BOLDUAN: He was amongst just some of the people there who also came together yesterday -- take a look at this -- for a truly emotional event. 40 family members and survivors all in one room, all in one place at one time, forever linked by the pain of gun violence. They shared their stories of suffering and survival and also what they -- what they want changed. It's part of a special report, titled "The Loneliest Club."

Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:55:13] ANNE HAYNES, HUSBAND SHOT AND KILLED IN 2013: My husband, Brian Kirby, was killed by a man who was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He sent his girlfriend to buy the gun and killed my husband. And that, right away, you have to ask, how could a mentally ill person, who is a felon on top of that, get away with sending his girlfriend to buy the gun, and they still haven't found the gun. And his death has been devastating for me. He was the love of my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Their pain is so raw.

Brooke is here with us now.

Brooke, this just happened yesterday. You're doing a whole special on this today. Tell us what was it like to be in the room with all of these people?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I have been in television for 16 years, and have never been part of such a raw meeting of people all part of a club no one wants to be a part of. Each person held up a picture of someone they lost or who was injured or they're wondering why that person did survive. It was a tremendous, tremendous evening and historic. Never before have they been together in a room and willing to let cameras roll as each of them told their stories, every town for gun safety, 750-plus people have all come together connected by tragedy. And what's incredible, they're banking on doors of members of Congress today, and we get into all that have in the special at 3: 00 eastern, but it's also the connections, the fact someone who lost a sister at sandy hook made a wedding dress for a father who lost someone in Aurora. It's someone who lost someone from an argument over loud music, you know, becoming a soul mate with someone who lost a mother and cousins in Charleston. It's all of these stories coming together.

Please, join me at 3:00.

BERMAN: It's "The Loneliest Club."

Thanks, Brooke.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Brooke.

Thank you all. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[12:00:04] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to "Legal View."