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At This Hour

Trump Under Fire Over Muslim Rhetoric; Will Michigan State Rep. in Political Sex Scandal Run Again?; Boston's "Baby Doe" Identified. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 18, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump under fire again. This time not for something he said but actually for something he didn't say. Will Trump's silence hurt him?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The political sex scandal that confused the nation. The representative who invented a hook-up with a male prostitute to cover up an affair with a colleague. He quit but he might run again. And he joins us live.

BOLDUAN: A little girl wrapped in a trash bag and just thrown away. She is finally identified. A break in the investigation for "Baby Doe."

BERMAN: Hello, I'm John Berman.

BOLDUAN: Hello, I'm Kate Bolduan.

We start with new outrage at Donald Trump. This time, over what the Republican presidential front-runner did not say during a big rally with supporters last night.

Trump was taking questions from the audience and this is what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a problem in this country, it's called Muslims. We know our current president is one. You know he's not even an American.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: We need this question. This is --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm serious, man. But anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us. That's my question. When can we get rid of them?

TRUMP: We're going to be looking at a lot of different things. A lot of people are saying that. A lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We're going to be looking at that and a plenty of other things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: This exchange happened at a rally for Trump in New Hampshire.

Let's bring in senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, with the details -- Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. A member of the audience wading into long-resolved issues about the president's nationality, his religion and suggesting the need to get rid of Muslims. In the middle of it, Trump saying, we need this question. And he did not challenge the man who was speaking. It conjured up memories of the time in 2011 when Trump himself was questioning President Obama's nationality and demanding the president's birth certificate, which the president eventually released publicly.

The Trump campaign said he did not hear the question but also said, "The media wants to make this issue about Obama. The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians. Christians need support in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake."

Hillary Clinton went on the attack here tweeting that, "Donald Trump not denouncing false statements about the president and hateful rhetoric about Muslims is disturbing and just plain wrong. Cut it out."

Now, there has been a template for handling moments like this on the campaign trail. It often involves keeping the record. Back in 2008, in the campaign, when some of these questions about Obama continued to swirl, the Republican John McCain got a question along the same lines and he corrected the questioner -- John and Kate?

BERMAN: Joe Johns for us in Washington. Thanks so much.

As Joe mentioned, the notion of questioning the president's background is hardly virgin territory for Donald Trump. He was one of the world's most prominent birthers, in 2011, challenging the notion the president was born in the United States. This is a reminder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Very simple. I have people looking into it. I'm starting to think he was not born here.

There's a lot of people question it. I certainly question it.

I have seen fraud and I have seen scandal and I've seen a lot of things most people don't see.

(on camera): But many people do not think it was authentic. His mother was not in the hospital.

(voice-over): There's something on that birth certificate he doesn't like.

So, perhaps he was born in this country. That's a very big chance.

I don't make up anything. Let me tell you something, I have done a great service to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So that's then and this is now. A lot more of the same.

Let's bring in Doug Heye, a former communications director for the Republican National Committee; and CNN political commentator, Hilary Rosen, to discuss.

Doug, from your old perch of being the communications director for the RNC, what do you think of how Trump took the question, what he said about it and then what the campaign responded about -- said about it afterward, that he didn't hear the question?

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know if that's true or not. I don't want to see candidates put in the position of traffic cop but when something is so egregious and so long, a, had you to hear it and, b, you had have to do something about it. If you want to talk about politics, and you wonder why they have problems -- it's because of things like this. It's not just Donald Trump. It almost seems to be endemic in our party. I'm from North Carolina. Just this week, we had a state representative who posted something on his Facebook page about Obama and being Muslims. Republicans should be clear and we should be clear throughout the country, President Obama is a Christian. He's a citizen. He was born in this country. End of discussion. Move on. Then we can talk about his failed policies, which is what we should be talking about anyways.

[11:04:56] BERMAN: So, Hilary, I want to show you the latest CNN/ORC poll. 29 percent of Americans still say they believe President Obama is a Muslim. 43 percent of Republicans say it, and 54 percent of Trump supporters. Look at that number among Republicans, 43 percent. There's all this controversy over the last 12 hours about what Trump said or didn't say or didn't justify or didn't clarify. But if 43 percent of Republicans still believe the president is a Muslim, maybe this won't hurt him in a Republican primary.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I was going to make that point about the broader Republican Party. Doug made it directly, which is you know, Trump is insulting his way into the news. That's the only thing he can do. He stumbled around policy the other night and it was a bad performance, but, you know, in typical bravado, he said he won the debate because people are fascinated by watching him. He's theatrical. He's a train wreck in that regard. Now what is he going to do? He's literally going to insult somebody new every single day and we'll keep talking about him. But the problem is that the attacks on President Obama resonate with Trump supporters because they resonate with Republicans in general.

You know, Doug said it. He's obviously a Christian. He's obviously an American. Yet, you don't hear any kind of respect for the president. Trump didn't say it out loud at the debate the other night, but the things they said about the president were disrespectful. Not just the worst president ever, but he doesn't care. He's in a league with terrorists that he's focused on the wrong thing. I do think this is a broader Republican problem and I think it's become OK to just trash our elected leaders in a really disrespectful way.

BOLDUAN: Doug, to the point of it being a broader Republican problem, to what you said, Doug, get past this so you can start talking about the issues that Republicans should be and want to be talking about, Chris Christie was on NBC this morning and, no surprise, he was asked to respond to this. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If somebody at one of my town hall meetings said something like that, I would correct them. I would say, no, the president is a Christian and he was born in this country. I mean, those two things are self-evident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But they're going to continue to be asked about it. How do you get past it if Donald Trump continues to go along this path?

HEYE: To Hillary's point about insulting his way in this campaign, this is one of the problems Republican candidates have. Not only has Donald Trump dominated news conferences with helicopters rides and things truly not important to voters and he also takes away from Chris Christie when he's interviewing or any other candidate. When they go on to do an interview, the first question is Donald Trump. That's unfortunate for those candidates. They have to push back. If you look at the clips you showed earlier, there's a common theme. Donald Trump says he's going to talk to people about this. He has plans about this. He never says what those plans are, who those people are. There's a reason for that. Not only does the emperor not have clothes, he doesn't have any answers. We saw that in the debate. I thought CNN did an amazing public service in showing exactly how bad Donald Trump is on any answers on any issues in this country. Hopefully, we're at the point where if the balloon will never pop, it's certainly beginning to deflate a little bit.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: The new frame right now that it's somehow the media's fault Trump is popular. That's ridiculous. We have to discuss is why is it so many people in this country is attracted to that kind of hatefulness and denigrating other people, that they can't feel like America can win begin if everybody wins. Only they can win and everybody else has to lose. That's a message that's really difficult to get across. It's certainly not a message the media invented. We didn't invent Donald Trump. Donald Trump is speaking to somebody that wants to be heard.

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump will definitely say -- (CROSSTALK)

HEYE: I don't disagree with that, but let's face it, we know Donald Trump has gotten more media coverage than any other Republican candidate combined. That's a problem. They didn't create it but certainly aiding and abetting going around. That's why so many people like myself, so many voters throughout the country want to hear real answers, real solutions. We haven't gotten that and, unfortunately, we saw that in the debate the other night.

BOLDUAN: You can definitely say that, that he gets more coverage than everybody else, but we would be taking a lot of heat, the media, if you will, if we didn't cover the front-runner in the --

(CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: That's exactly right.

HEYE: No question about it.

(CROSSTALK)

ROSEN: You know, Republicans --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Doug

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Doug, Hillary, we have to leave it there --

BOLDUAN: We're going to leave it there for now, guys.

BERMAN: -- just for now. Until we meet again. Not good-bye.

BOLDUAN: And for all of you, if you did miss the debate or want to see it yet again, it will air again tonight at 10:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

[11:10:03] BERMAN: A lot of people watched that. I don't know if you heard.

BOLDUAN: A lot of people.

BERMAN: So we'll watch again.

BOLDUAN: This is just ahead for us, political sex scandal with a bizarre cover-up and a new twist. Up next, we'll talk to the state lawmaker who resigned his seat after trying to cover up an affair with a fictional story about having sex with a male prostitute. Now there's a new twist.

BERMAN: And this blindside attack seen on video. So shocking to so many. A referee just flattened in the middle of a game. The players who did it, they are now speaking out. Why they say they slammed him to the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: A Michigan lawmaker who resigned just last week in the face of a bizarre sex scandal and bizarre cover-up is considering running once again for that same seat. Todd Courser stepped down after his affair with another lawmaker, State Rep. Cindy Gamrat, was exposed. But here's the truly bizarre part of it all. Courser tried to cover up that affair by inventing a story and leaking it himself he had been caught with a male prostitute.

BERMAN: In the end, it all went public anyway. Both members were accused of misconduct and misusing taxpayer resources. Courser resigned, she was expelled, but she's announced she will run for her seat again. Will Todd Courser do the same?

He joins us now in his first national television interview.

Todd, there's a lot to cover here and a lot of background that our audience needs to be brought up to speed on. But first, the deadline to file for that seat you just quit, the deadline to file is 4:00 p.m. today. Will you run for this seat again?

[11:15:02] TODD COURSER, (R), FORMER MICHIGAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I appreciate you having me on this morning. I just have to say it, it was really up to my wife. We had to do some meetings. Yesterday she gave me the go ahead. She said, "Yes, run. The people haven't had an opportunity to weigh in on this. It was wrong the way they did it. And they need to hear about your votes and the good work you did for them in the state house." So, she gave me the go ahead yesterday. My children, late last night. And so we'll be filing this afternoon to run for the 82nd district in LaPierre County.

BOLDUAN: So, you will be running again for this seat that you just resigned. The obvious question is, why should voters trust you to represent them after everything that went down in such a bizarre fashion?

COURSER: Well, I've taken ownership for the underlying issues in regards to my failings, the -- nobody has failed really politically as large as I have. And yet I do think the voters need to take that into consideration and look at the record that I have and then just consider that. I think it's really important. There was a huge media storm that related to all of this. There's also a failure inside of that for the people and the voters to have an opportunity to weigh in. And the expulsion hearing, the way they went through it with three votes and locking down the state house for the better part of 14 hours and forcing representatives not to use the rest room or eat until they voted, it's just totalitarian in the way it was handled. Most representatives never even had an opportunity to read the 833 pages, which was filled with a lot of accusations but very little evidence in regards to wrongdoing.

BERMAN: So, OK, wrongdoing. What do you think, then, that it constitutes wrongdoing? Was it leaking a story, inventing a liaison with a male prostitute to cover up an affair with a colleague? Does that constitute wrongdoing?

COURSER: Right, yeah. Obviously, the underlying relationship was, I would say, the wrongdoing.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Not the leaking of the story?

COURSER: No, and then the next step of attempting to cover that up. There was a reason that e-mail was sent out. I've taken, obviously, ownership for that as a failure. That was a really, really dark moment in my life and, in that moment, made a really, really poor choice. So, I think the voters need to weigh in on whether or not that is something that's egregious and they don't want me to serve as their state representative. But I've given them good representation in the state house with the most conservative voting record, probably the most conservative in a generation, and I've sponsored cutting-edge conservative legislation. And I think the voters need to weigh in on whether or not that's the kind of representation they want. And they also have to look at the e-mail and also the past and determine whether those -- were those moments that are now corrected? My wife and I are now in counseling and working through those steps.

BOLDUAN: Mr. Courser, though, on the most basic level, you're in an affair with another lawmaker, extra-martial affair. At any point when you're caught up in such a bizarre attempt to cover it up, leaking an e-mail, saying you had this tryst with a male prostitute, at any point did you think, why am I going this far? I think what boggles everyone's mind is the cover-up is way more bizarre than an extra-martial affair. Why did you do that?

COURSER: In those moments, it's really difficult to describe, but there's an anonymous extortionist that lawmakers are still looking into, executed some warrants, and it sounds like there's an organization involved in it and they're pursuing those leads. So, I think some of that's going to be played out here in the next weeks to determine really was it an organized -- an organized --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: For your part. I think that's what people care most about right now.

COURSER: Well, it was in those moments. Obviously, you're looking at -- you're getting texts from an anonymous source saying they're going to release all this information. You haven't had an opportunity to work that out in regards to your family, even though you're in the moments of explaining that to your family. You don't know what they're going to bring out. There's a tremendous amount of pressure. I made a poor choice. And I think the voters, in essence, it shouldn't have been the legislators who had not read the evidence --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Did you think you were going to get away with it? COURSER: Well, no, it wasn't really about getting away with it.

It was trying to force the actual texter to make a -- to take a step that would reveal himself. And it did to a certain extent. There is some tangential connections to one of my staffers who was actually on that tape that night.

BERMAN: So, judgment is often an issue connected to leadership. Judgment is an issue that voters want to look at when they --

(CROSSTALK)

COURSER: I would say character as well, and integrity. Character and integrity as well.

[11:19:59] OK, judgment, character, integrity. When you look at the last three months of what's happened in Michigan, in Lansing, and about, what then is evidence of judgment and character and leadership.

COURSER: Well, I think that's for the voters to decide. Like I said, inside of this, when you're looking at that, my voting record is one that's -- they've been given very good representation. I think the voters should be able to weigh in. It shouldn't be legislators who have a political axe to grind can get together and decide they want to get rid of a member who's been a problem for them. I was a rep without a home really in the Republican caucus. I stood against them on their progressive actions in the Republican Party. So, most of the time on the big, heavy issues I voted against my own caucus. So, it was the Democrats ultimately at the end who really felt like there hadn't been a fair shake and a fair hearing. So they were the ones that held it up for 14 -- well, the better part of 14 hours in regards to my being expelled. They felt like the actual leadership in my own party was hiding something. So, they were pushing for more to be -- more to be revealed.

BERMAN: I'm just a little curious, because you obviously have been involved with politics for a long time and have appreciated the process. Do you look at sex scandals and politics differently now?

COURSER: Oh, my goodness. You know, it was -- it's been horrendous experience for my family, my children, my wife. And I -- you know, I don't think people realize the human interest story and the tremendous cost that a family goes through in these situations. And it's all on me. I mean, it was my responsibility and all of that. And my wife, you know, we talked about it. Yesterday, at the park, North Branch, a small town, and she said, run. She said, absolutely, run. She said, the people haven't had a chance to weigh in, to hear about the good things you've done for the district and they need to hear that. And regardless of how it falls, they need to hear those -- they need to hear those details. And so it has been a tremendous -- tremendously difficult situation, yet we've seen some really awesome stuff.

You know, I'm a believer in Christ and we love to see the reclamation process in our society, but there has to be sort of that moving in the heart. As a couple, we're walking through those steps. And looking forward to whatever God has in the next chapter. BOLDUAN: We'll see what the voters have to say in the face of

all of this information coming out. As you just announced, you'll be running again for that seat. You'll be filing the paperwork today.

BERMAN: Todd Courser, thank you for coming on our show. Hope to talk to you again.

COURSER: God bless you. Thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Coming up, big news out of Boston. A break in the case of Baby Doe. The young girl found in Boston Harbor in a trash bag in June. Police now at last say they know who she is.

BOLDUAN: Also ahead for us, did mental illness drive Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl to dessert his post in Afghanistan? AT THIS HOUR, a military hearing underway. We'll have the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:26:28] BERMAN: A break in a case this morning that touched the hearts of so many. A law enforcement source in Boston tells us "Baby Doe", the little girl who was discovered dead in a trash bag near Boston Harbor earlier this summer, she has been identified and a suspect is now in custody.

BOLDUAN: The girl, approximately 4 years old, was found with a fleece blanket and dressed in polka dot leggings. That's as much as police really had. They created this composite image of her and asked the public -- pleading with the public for help in identifying this girl. This image had been shared on social media millions and millions of times. The cause of death still a mystery.

Poppy Harlow is joining us now with the very latest.

A lot could be coming out today. What are we hearing?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a press conference later today. As you said, 53 million people have viewed this image. This is a young girl who captured the attention of the nation, strikingly beautiful, long hair, big, Brown eyes.

Here's what we know. Last night, a search warrant was executed. They went to the Mattapan area of Boston, according to "The Boston Globe." It led them to a person they have taken into custody. We are told by a law enforcement source telling CNN, that man is the boyfriend of the mother of "Baby Doe".

This little girl disappeared June 25th on Deer Island, east of Boston's Logan Airport. She was found in that plastic bag. It was believed she may not have been in the water, just discarded like a piece of trash on the side there. What we do know is that they've been able to find pollen on her. They tested the pollen. The pollen led them to trees and shrubs in the area, indicating to them that this was a local girl. That helped. And then they got a tip. A tip was called into the homicide unit and yesterday they executed that search warrant. Now this man is in custody. He's the boyfriend of her mother. He has not been charged. It's unclear if he has an attorney, if he's cooperating or not, but we do know there will be a press conference a little later today.

BERMAN: In some ways this was such a public search, a social media search.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Any sense if it was the public effort and attention that may have at least contributed to that tip?

HARLOW: Absolutely. We know it's this tip. That's a good question. Do we know if it's an insider, someone who knew the family? If your daughter's missing, you know, where were those calls? But we know they've received hundreds of tips from 30 states and four different countries.

Also, if we can pull it up again, this is a computer-generated image. This is what they believe she looked like.

BOLDUAN: That was the outrage of the prosecutor. Remember when he came on the show, that's what outraged him so much. Someone knows that this person -- that this little girl is missing.

HARLOW: You're child's gone.

BOLDUAN: It's either your daughter --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Your granddaughter, your niece --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: You know a girl is missing.

BOLDUAN: I remember he was so emotional about -- as they conducted this search and now there's a break.

HARLOW: There is a break. We'll see if we get the name, the cause of death. The Suffolk County D.A. saying this investigation very much ongoing.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Poppy.

BERMAN: Coming up, cuffed and arrested for making a clock. New developments in the case against a Muslim teenager and new information about his plans for the future.

And then Bowe Bergdahl traded for five Taliban detainees and accused of desertion. New information coming from his court-martial. That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)