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At This Hour

Did Mental Illness Drive Bowe Bergdahl to Desert?; Football Players on Why They Slammed Referee; Pope Francis Visiting Cuba, U.S.; Not Every Congressman Will Attend Pope' Address. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired September 18, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:33:25] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The second day of a military hearing for Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl is under way as we speak this morning. A short time ago, we learned that he will not be testifying in his own defense.

We're also hearing much more detail from the troops who served with him in Afghanistan, talking about how Bergdahl was acting in the hours before he disappeared, deserted his post, his unit, back in 2009.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Again, the authorities now say Bergdahl deserted. He was traded for five Taliban detainees in that controversial prisoner swap last year. He faces a possible court- martial and life sentence for desertion and misbehavior before the enemy.

But now the question is, could his mental health at the time factor into his punishment?

Martin Savidge is at Ft. Sam Houston in Texas. And Anita Gorecki-Robbins, a former federal prosecutor and senior defense counsel for the Army.

Martin, bring us up to speed.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John and Kate. We're hearing from Major General Kenneth Dahl. He's already announced that Bowe Bergdahl will not take the stand but Major General Dahl could be the very next best thing. The reason I say that is because he was the general who was chosen to be the lead investigator when it came to Bowe Bergdahl and how he happened to come off his post in Afghanistan and what happened to him during his period of captivity. If anybody knows the story of Bowe Bergdahl, it is, in fact, the man on the stand right now. His testimony has only just begun.

Then you talk about the psychological questions that have been raised here. They've been raised by the defense, of course. And then carried on with a former member of Bergdahl's unit who said Bergdahl appeared to be the model soldier, gung-ho, ready to serve, and was ready to go out and hunt down the Taliban. Once they got into Afghanistan, he began to notice that Bergdahl had something different -- he was slightly off. He didn't gel with the rest of the unit. And it was so much of a concern, that this former sergeant went to another more senior sergeant and raised the issue and said maybe Bergdahl ought to have a talk with the chaplain, to which he was immediately rebuffed -- I won't use the language. So, this is what the defense is focusing on -- Kate and John?

[11:35:42] BOLDUAN: A lot of back and forth there, and it's far from over. That's for sure.

Martin Savidge, on the ground, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Anita now.

Anita, what, first off, do you make of what we're hearing from Martin that Bergdahl, this they announced he won't be testifying in his own defense? Does that surprise you?

ANITA GORECKI-ROBBINS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR & SENIOR DEFENSE COUNSEL, U.S. ARMY: No. This is basically like a preliminary hearing. In the federal system you'd have a grand jury where Bergdahl and his attorney wouldn't even be present in the first place. In the military system, they're allowed to be present. If I was Bergdahl's attorney, I wouldn't put my client on the stand because then that is sworn testimony and the prosecutors already have your playbook. So I'm not surprised that in this preliminary hearing he's not taking the stands.

BERMAN: What about the introduction of his mental health, his state of mind at the time? How will that play into this case?

GORECKI-ROBBINS: Just like any other case. The question of sanity comes up. It's just like any other trial you guys cover. Every trial, every crime has elements and defenses. The fact that his unit may have been suspicious he may have had mental health issues is still not going to be an affirmative defense. That might be something -- somebody might look at it as a civil issue. Either he was sane at the time or wasn't. Like is he sane now to assist his attorneys? This is no different than any other type of case, so though they may be shedding light on this and perhaps they're presenting this evidence because they want to go back to the convening authority and say, hey, as a way of getting a plea agreement, but as it comes to the crime itself, I don't see how this is going to help, unless they ask for a sanity board and some psychiatrist says, no, he was mentally unfit at the time.

BOLDUAN: Sure does seem like they're trying to make some sort of a case that the military should share some blame for his disappearance. That's for sure.

BERMAN: Anita Gorecki-Robbins, thanks so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

Coming up for us, why did two football players level a referee in the middle of a game? Here's the video right there. Now for the first time, we hear the players' story.

BOLDUAN: Also just hours from now, Pope Francis will be landing in Cuba. We'll go live to Havana next to get a rundown of his agenda and all of the anticipation for his arrival there. And then his trip to the U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:41:55] BERMAN: For the first time this morning, the two Texas high school football players who blindsided a referee, just laying him out flat on the field, they are speaking out. They say it was the assistant coach who told them, quote, "You need to hit him."

BOLDUAN: You'll remember this video. Absolutely shocking. It shows these two players, Victor Rojas, and Michael Moreno -- that's the ref we just highlighted right there -- then they make a bee line for the referee, slamming him from behind -- he had no idea it was coming -- slamming him to the ground. The two broke their silence to "ABC This Morning" just a short time ago. They allege that the referee was directing racial slurs at their teammates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST, ABC THIS MORNING: The referee, as you know, said he didn't use any racial slurs. Did you hear the referee use any racial slurs?

MICHAEL MORENO, JOHN JAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYER: Yes, sir. He told one of high Hispanic friends, he told him, speak English, this is America. I got told that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Did you hear that or did one of your friends tell you that?

MORENO: No, I heard that. And then to African-Americans on the team, he called them the "N" word.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You heard him say that?

VICTOR ROJAS, JOHN JAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYER: Yes. I heard him when he called Moses Reynolds the "N" word and it was just really --

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: He says that's a lie.

ROJAS: It's not. That's the honest truth right there. I wouldn't lie about this situation. Just how bad it's gotten, like, the truth needs to be told.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Jean Casarez is here. She's been following the story.

Jean, they are absolutely at odds as to what happened here that precipitated the event.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So many layers. First of all, we just got off the phone with Alan Goldberger, who is the attorney for Watts, the referee, and he says their office was told by their client that these words were never spoken. They were not spoken.

And I just got a statement from the Northeast Independent School District where John Jay High School is located in San Antonio, and they tell me, quote, "Northside Independent School District did not know the two boys had gone to New York to interview with ABC News. They continue to be assigned to the Northside Alternative High School pending the results of their disciplinary hearing."

And when I say there are so many levels to this, because the video is what first came out. And you see the first football player really ambush the referee from the back, getting him to the ground. Then the second football player comes in, helmet first, to attack him while he's on the ground. And then after that, we heard that one of the assistant coaches, who is currently on administrative leave with pay, Mack Breed, told hem to do it.

Now what the kids said on "Good Morning, America" today, said one of the other football players told me that the assistant coach told us we should go attack us. The other young man said, no, I heard the assistant coach say we need to go and get him for the calls he was making. Remember John Jay --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Not for what he was saying.

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: John Jay High School lost the game.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: No matter what was said, does that mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: It doesn't justify attacking a referee.

BERMAN: What's interesting, there could be three separate investigations going on.

CASAREZ: That's right.

BERMAN: In fact, there are.

CASAREZ: That's exactly right.

[11:45:08] BERMAN: Into the students themselves, who will get punished no matter what for what they did. Did the assistant coach say something? He could get punished for saying something.

BOLDUAN: And then for the referee.

BERMAN: And then what the referee said. He could be sanctioned, even though he was flattened.

CASAREZ: That's right. This is really a test of credibility. The investigation is going on.

Now, this game was in Marble Falls, Texas, which is not Bexar County, not Bexar County, where San Antonio is. So it's Burnett County, Marble Falls, doing the police investigation. The district attorney allegedly will be involved in this. And Northeast Independent School District confirmed with me they're doing their internal investigation.

BERMAN: All right.

BOLDUAN: It's a mess.

BERMAN: Jean Casarez, thank you very much. Appreciate you being here.

Pope Francis heading to the United States, but he has a stop before he comes here. He will land in Cuba tomorrow. Our man in Havana, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: See right there the papal countdown is on, and Pope Francis is heading to Cuba tomorrow on the first leg of the historic nine-day tour of the island and then he is going to be heading to the United States. This morning, the pontiff tweeted this, "I ask you to join me in praying for my trip to Cuba and United States. I need your prayers."

[11:50:00] BERMAN: And this is going to be his first visit to both countries. And the first stop in the United States is Washington. He gets there on Tuesday. And later in the week, he addresses a joint session in Congress. But we learned this morning not every member is going to be there, and that is interesting in and of itself.

And our Patrick Oppmann is live in Havana. Our Vatican analyst, John Allen, is in Rome.

And, Patrick Oppmann, first to you.

He will be the third pope to visit Havana but the first Latin- American pope to visit there, and I imagine that the excitement is extraordinary.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I feel blessed to have covered all three. And we are see the tourists taking pictures of the altar behind me, where the pope will be speaking, delivering his first mass, not only in Cuba but of his whole trip to Cuba and the United States. Then he will travel throughout the islands. We expect to see hundreds of thousands off people at the mass and thousands more at the other two masses. First Spanish-speaking pope and a connection with the Latin people that no other pope has had. And he was involved in the secret negotiations with the U.S./Cuba negotiations. And what will the pope do when he reaches the opposite end of the island, he will fly to the U.S., the first pope to do that. So many firsts here. We expect him to make announcements about U.S./Cuban relations, keep pushing forward of the dialogue of the reconciliation. And the slogan behind me means missionary of mercy, and that is what the pope says he is coming to Cuba to do.

BOLDUAN: And the first stop in Cuba.

Patrick there.

Patrick, thank you very much.

Then the big visit to the United States.

Let's bring in John Allen to discuss that.

There is so much anticipation surrounding the arrival. And I was reading up more on the arrival into Washington, D.C., and the address to Congress, and it is going to be like an inauguration-style setting, and that is the reception that he is going to be getting. And what are the big moments that you are going to be looking for -- John?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, John and Kate, the cornerstones to the visit to the United States are going to be in Washington, it is obviously that address to the joint meeting of Congress. The first time that any pope has ever addressed Congress. And that is going to be the opportunity for Francis to address the public. And we are expecting him to address the key issues of the agenda matters such as climate change, anti-poverty efforts, criticism of the arms trade, and so on. The issues of immigration reform, and the issues for which Francis has become known for around the world, and then the of course, when he gets to New York, there is that address to the United Nations, and let's not forget that Francis has repeatedly said that he is deeply concerned about the looming Paris summit to the U.N. On climate change and I would expect the fight against global warming and climate change to be front and center to the address of the U.N., and then the of course, when he gets to Philadelphia, it is the world meeting of families that the Vatican is sponsoring in Philly, and delegates of more than 100 nations will be there and I expect Francis to talk about all of the threats to the family that he would perceive from the economic and the political threats to cultural and other threats, and so it is of papal concerns. But it is the American debut of the figure that is the new Nelson Mandela on the global stage which is that new unquestioned point of moral reference, and the voice of conscious. I think that it is likely to be a scintillating American debut from start to finish.

BERMAN: I think that a lot of to Americans will be surprised by what they hear from Pope Francis, a very different kind of individual, and someone who grew up in Argentina with a different view of America than past popes who have come here as well.

John Allen, great to have you with us, and really appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Do not miss our coverage of the historic visit to Cuba and the United States. It begins tomorrow, and we will be following it tomorrow and all week on CNN. Don't miss it.

BOLDUAN: And also a head for us, more on the controversy for presidential candidate, Donald Trump, and this time, it is for something that he did not say. We have Trump's reaction to the latest trouble ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:58:10] BERMAN: All right. The power of music is now helping kids in jeopardy and some of the top-10 albums streamed online are hip-hop recordings.

BOLDUAN: So one man is using the power of that music as therapy. Here is today's "CNN Hero."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really grew up in a lot of different places. When you have a lot of things that are not stable, it kind of gets you in a really bad situation. So I really felt alone and it turned into me doing the wrong things.

TOMAS ALVAREZ, CNN HERO: As a former school social worker, I witnessed how challenging it was to engage African-American male and Latino male students in talk therapy. I knew that if I wanted to really engage the group that I would have to do something different.

We are going to have three statements and two that are true about yourself and one that is a lie.

Beats Rhymes with Life is the country's first hip-hop therapy program where young people turn their pain into music.

(RAPPING)

ALVAREZ: Our program creates opportunities for youth to reflect and tell their story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can make a difference and always looking forward to the new day.

ALVAREZ: It is important for young people to create something that they can be proud of. This studio makes that possible.

(RAPPING)

ALVAREZ: A lot of people come for the hip-hop, but they stay for the healing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was skeptical at first, but it does not feel like it is a therapy session.

(RAPPING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I'm rapping, I let it all go.

ALVAREZ: Hip-hop is everywhere and so are the mental disparities impacting young men of color.

(CHEERING)

ALVAREZ: What people need to realize is that when our young people have a voice, they can learn to help and heal themselves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

If you want to learn more about this hero and so many more, please go to CNN.com.

Thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield --