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At This Hour

D.C. Medical Examiner Says, Sicknick Suffered Strokes, Died of Natural Causes; Cities Across U.S. Increase Security Ahead of Chauvin Verdict; President Biden Meets with Congressional Hispanic Caucus Leaders. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWSROOM: Thank you for coming on.

You are seeing this in your county. You opened the first drive-through vaccine clinic back in January. Describe for me what demand looked like back then for shots and what you're seeing now.

KRISTY FRYMAN, EMERGENCY RESPONSE COORDINATOR, MERCER COUNTY, OHIO HEALTH DISTRICT: Sure, certainly, thanks for having me.

So, back in January, we started our COVID-19 vaccine drive-throughs held at our local fairgrounds. When we first started, we had a large demand for the vaccine specifically on the first drive-through. We had 526 individuals that wanted the vaccine. And since then, we have been conducting drive-throughs. We do them twice a week with Wednesday being first dose and Fridays being second dose.

However, as eligibility dropped and more residents could receive the vaccine, we saw the demand lower as well. We typically would vaccinate around 400 per clinic on Wednesdays. However, two weeks ago, we saw it really drop. And that's when the eligibility opened up to the 16-year- old and older groups.

Here at the health department, we've been giving Moderna vaccine and that is the 18-year-old population. But even with the 18-year-olds, we still have seen a drop in the vaccine. Specifically, our last first dose drive-through, we only did 256 doses. We had availability to do over 400.

BOLDUAN: So it's totally counterintuitive, right? I mean, you should be getting more. You should definitely be getting more people coming in this. Why do you think things are slowing down?

FRYMAN: Here at Mercer County, we think that it's slowing down with being specifically a rural area that the population, especially younger population, have the sense of that if they get COVID-19, it may not be as bad. So they're not wanting to get the vaccine. We're also hearing that people are waiting to see how the side effects are and then people just don't want the vaccine.

Rural people tend to be more self-sufficient with the attitude that if COVID-19 is going to hit me, it may not cause as bad side effects as it would the older population.

BOLDUAN: So, Kristy, what or who do you think could convince folks to get the shot who are resisting it right now, who are hesitant? I mean you guys have shots essentially waiting around for them at this point. What could change their minds?

FRYMAN: Yes. You know, we have been going back to the drawing board trying to figure out how to get more people vaccinated. But it goes back to we can only do so much. We can provide the education on why it's important to get vaccinated and how the vaccine works. It is basically educating the population.

I was just in a meeting this morning and we talked about the survivors or people who have -- have lost people to COVID-19 that have came through the vaccine drive-throughs, and hearing their stories of why they want to get vaccinated. That is something that we may want to look at is trying to share people's stories on who's got vaccinated and why people should get vaccinated.

BOLDUAN: I can only imagine so frustrating for you as you've got -- you've got the science behind you, you've got the vaccines available and you just aren't getting people to get vaccinated. What is your biggest concern now that you're looking at this?

FRYMAN: So our biggest concern is Mercer County was rated number one across the state for having the most cases especially back in November. We had over 1,000 cases in a month. And just recently, we are seeing an increase in cases, specifically among the population of the 20 to 40-year-olds.

And then looking at the data with regards 20 who is getting vaccinated, 5 to 11 percent of that population, the 29 to 30-year- olds, are getting vaccinated. And we're seeing an increase among those -- among that population with regard to COVID cases. So it is concerning that we're seeing an increase in that population does not want to get vaccinated.

So, again, it goes back to just educating on why it is important to get vaccinated.

BOLDUAN: You just got to keep hammering at that message. Kristy, thank you for what you're doing. Good luck. Thanks for coming on.

FRYMAN: Thank you, I appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Coming up for us, the official cause of death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick who died after the Capitol riot and now the new questions that the medical examiner is raising this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:00]

BOLDUAN: It's been more than three months since the horrible attack on the U.S. Capitol, and we are finally hearing what the medical examiner says caused the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick.

D.C.'s chief medical examiner issued a report yesterday saying Sicknick suffered strokes and died of natural causes. Though the medical examiner did tell The Washington Post that, quote, all that transpired played a role in his condition.

Video played in court by prosecutors showed protesters allegedly attacking Sicknick with chemical bear spray on that day, on January 6th.

Joining me right now for more on this is CNN's Jessica Schneider.

Jessica, talk us through this, because it is somewhat hard to understand that he died of natural causes after seeing what he suffered through.

[11:40:05]

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And, Kate, you mentioned it. We've seen some of that video that shows Officer Sicknick being struck with that chemical spray and then recoiling, kind of huddling with the other officers who were hit and that's led to questions about whether that assault maybe caused or contributed to his death one day after the Capitol attack, but the medical examiner now saying that Officer Sicknick did die from natural causes, two strokes, specifically.

And he told The Washington Post crucially that there is no evidence that Sicknick had an allergic reaction to the chemical spray. However, the M.E. also told The Washington Post all that transpired on January 6th played a role in his condition, but didn't really seem to elaborate.

So that seems to indicate that the confrontation with protesters may have possibly triggered Sicknick's condition and the strokes. But it's not really clear from medical examiner's report because they aren't revealing if Sicknick had any pre-existing conditions.

So the timeline here leaving a lot of questions still. Officer Sicknick, he was attacked with that chemical spray around 2:20 P.M. January 6th. And then hours later, around 10:00 P.M. that night that he was taken to the hospital. And then the next morning, he was actually taken -- that's when he died on January 7th.

So it's likely the family still has questions here. But this, Kate, really does in some small part at least, it brings somewhat of an end to all the enduring speculation about what exactly caused Officer Brian Sicknick's death. We know it was natural causes, two strokes.

Capitol Police have responded to this, Kate. They're saying that they accept the findings but they still consider Officer Sicknick's death in the line of duty and they say he died courageously defending Congress and the Capitol, Kate. BOLDUAN: He absolutely did. We do know last month two men were arrested with the charge with allegedly assaulting Officer Sicknick. What are you hearing the impact of these findings from the M.E. could be?

SCHNEIDER: Right. So, two men, here, George Tanios, Julian Khater, they're already facing these charges of assaulting Officer Sicknick and two other officers with a chemical spray. There was initially some question if they could face serious charges related to Officer Sicknick's death.

But, really, Kate, this finding from the medical examiner, it all but assures the Justice Department won't be able to go after these men or any others for homicide related charges related to Sicknick's death. And that likely means that the federal murder investigation that we were initially told was ongoing will not or has not continued here.

So this likely could be the end of the charges against those two men. It is just for allegedly assaulting Officer Sicknick and two others with that chemical spray, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you so much for that.

Coming up for us, we are watching and waiting for a verdict in the Derek Chauvin murder trial. But cities across the country are not waiting as they step up security and brace for what could come after that verdict. The Mayor of Kansas City is our guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Cities across the United States are bracing possible for unrest following the verdict, the eventual verdict in the Derek Chauvin murder trial, a verdict that could come any moment. From coast to coast, security is being ramped up, barricades are being put up and businesses are closing down.

In Chicago this morning, you can see -- we'll show you store fronts boarded up just in case Illinois' governor has deployed more than 100 members of the National Guard to Chicago ahead of the verdict.

Washington, D.C., is also preparing. National Guard troops have been put on alert and Washington is beefing up its police presence as well.

Joining me right now is the mayor of another major city keeping a close watch on this, Quinton Lucas, Mayor Of Kansas City, Missouri. Mayor, thank you for being here. What are you preparing for in Kansas City?

MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS (D-KANSAS CITY, MO): So we have similar preparations. Our primary goal though is to engage with our activist community and so many others. We recognize that this is a moment where we need to see how we can do better in law enforcement and communities. So it's not just saying how do you board things up. It's saying how do you actually build bridges in our community to make sure that we address a lot of the problems that have now been discussed for years around the Midwest and throughout our country.

BOLDUAN: Look, protests in Kansas City turned violent and dangerous over the summer after the killing of George Floyd. What did you learn from that, Mayor?

LUCAS: What I learned was a few things. One, you can't be too reactionary. We were one of the jurisdictions that had a curfew but we only had it for one day, (INAUDIBLE) right after. Because it was my view that it wasn't making things better. I don't think having a big armada of National Guardsmen makes anything better.

I went out to the protests myself. I talked to activities themselves. That's how we can make a difference, recognizing that there's a lot of stuff we've got to fix. The real way you can fix it is actually getting two people's minds and visiting with them and listening, not just saying that we're going to have this huge division between all of us.

BOLDUAN: The prosecution in the closing argument, in part, they said that Derek Chauvin knew better but didn't do better. We heard that repeated more than once. And I'm wondering how this kind of applies going forward, if you will? Who needs to do better and do more?

I know that you've thought about this a lot. Is it on mayors like yourself? Is it on police chiefs? Is it on the president?

LUCAS: You know, my view is actually it is on those in leadership. It's not just the story about rank and file. So much of our focus is on individual officers. To me, this isn't about Derek Chauvin.

[11:50:00]

This is about what police chiefs are teaching, what mayors are allowing, what the president is helping to fund.

This morning, I was in a conversation about federal funding and help diversionary programs. What easiest federal grants to get are often for more officers, more guns, more equipment, more thanks, all of those. Those are the types of things that we need to eliminate. We need to focus on how to help people. We need to decriminalizing poverty. So these are the sorts of issues.

And, by the way, decriminalizing poverty, minor offenses, not getting a parking ticket and not getting a warrant later, small marijuana offenses. This is what mayors can do better. This is what leaders can do better, and that's what the moments cries for. Or else we're going to be back here for the next trial, for the next issue.

Minnesota has had however many situations in just a few years. That's the story in my state of Missouri and so many others. So this is how I think we can have a real call for change, and it does start with like us as mayors. We can't just sit back and say we're trying to protect property. We need to protect people even more.

BOLDUAN: In the immediate though, I would like to know what your level -- where your biggest level of concern is. Because we heard from -- well, let me play it, the police chief of Detroit spoke to CNN yesterday. He says that he is concerned about what's going to happen no matter what the verdict is. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JAMES CRAIG, DETROIT POLICE: Candidly, whichever way the outcome of this trial goes, I don't think it's going to make a difference. I truly believe that if he's acquitted, or he's charged, there are still going to be in some places around our country that we will see violence. I believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He thinks it's unavoidable. Do you think it is?

LUCAS: I don't think that it's unavoidable. I think that there will still be people who are angry, there will still be people that want to speak out regardless of how the verdict comes. I mean, that's because we saw what happened on video. We see what's happening in our society. We saw the shooting in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota the other day.

But, to me, I think it is -- what can we do to try to address and what can we do to try to get in front of it. I'm meeting with activists in Kansas City tomorrow. I'm calling people today to talk about things. I'm meeting with the mayor of St. Louis on the other side of Missouri today, where we'll talk about all these things, their first black female mayor. I mean, it's those sorts of things that we need to do to get ahead of this.

And so, yes, I'm concerned. We'll make sure that we, the city, its police, its community are ready the protect the people, make sure they can have their voices heard but, no, I'm not just saying it's a (INAUDIBLE) that we are going to have violence. I want to make sure we can find a way to make peace for everybody.

That's what our goal in Kansas City, is going to recognizing that peace doesn't mean quieting down anger, it doesn't mean ignoring change, it doesn't mean avoiding problems. It means they have to recommit to something different. That's what we're looking to do, far beyond boarding up things, calling the National Guard or any of that type of work.

BOLDUAN: Look, Mayor, we've got to let you go, not only because you're in a snowstorm in the middle of April but I was going to say congratulations to you and your wife. I saw your announcement just the other day, welcoming your new baby, so congratulations, remembering the important things in life right now, family. So thank you.

LUCAS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the president and vice president sitting down this hour with Hispanic lawmakers just ahead of a critical trip to Central America. We're waiting to see the president right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I've come to know George's family, not just in passing, I've spent time with them. I spent time with his little daughter, Gianna, you should see this beautiful child, and his brother, both brothers, matter of fact. And so I can only imagine the pressure and the anxiety they're feeling. And so I've waited until the jury was sequestered, and I called.

And I wasn't going to say anything about it, but Philonise said today on television, he accurately said it was a private conversation because Joe understands what it's like to go through loss. And they're a good family. And they're calling for peace and tranquility no matter what that verdict is. I'm praying the verdict is the right verdict, which is -- I think it's overwhelming in my view. I wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequestered now, not hearing me say that.

And so we just talked and I want to know how they were doing, personally, and we talked about personal things. Thank you very much for coming in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Hearing President Biden sitting there with Vice President Harris, speaking about the Derek Chauvin murder trial and his conversation with George Floyd's family.

Let me bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins. She was the correspondent for the pool who was in the room with the president right there. Kaitlan, tell us more about the president.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, he was there meeting with the leadership of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, of course, talking about what that meeting was going to look like. But when I asked him, what was his message to George Floyd's family now that we know that he did call them, he called his brother yesterday, he said he was only going to take one question while we're in the room and he wanted to talk about that, because he said he has come to know the Floyd family so well, he talked about the time he spent with his daughter. Of course, we know last year we reported that he called them after everything had happened. And so he also spoke to them again.

But he said he wanted to wait to call them until after the jury has been sequestered and started deliberating. So that must mean that he called them yesterday evening because, of course, we know those deliberations started around 4:00 or 5:00 P.M., I believe.

And so what President Biden was saying there is not just talking about his experience with the family and the fact that they both have shared grief and lost loved ones, which, of course, is what George Floyd's brother said earlier this morning, but, kate, he also weighed in on what he thinks the verdict should be. He said he is praying that the jury comes to the right verdict. He said he believes it's overwhelming in his opinion, he didn't explicitly say, of course, what the verdict should be but he said he would not make those comments if the jury wasn't already sequestered. And now that, of course, they are, he felt free enough to weigh in on what this verdict is going to look like.

And I think the other thing he said that was notable, Kate, was where he said that George Floyd's family is calling for peace and tranquility, depending -- no matter how this verdict goes, depending on what the outcome of this is going to look like, because, of course, we know that President Biden has privately talked to people about whether or not there could be unrest in the wake of that verdict if the public isn't satisfied with what the jury decides. And so this is a pretty notable weigh in from the president.

And he said he wasn't going to talk about that conversation. He wasn't going to even publicly state that they had had it. But after George Floyd's family did, he felt like he could talk about it there with us in the Oval Office today.

BOLDUAN: And you note, and it's important to note, it is noteworthy that the president is not only weighing in, giving his -- you know, speaking about his conversation with Philonise, but also that he is saying that what his view on what direction he thinks this verdict should go. I find that somewhat surprising, Kaitlan, especially because the White House has been really careful in their public commentary on that.

COLLINS: Yes. We had asked Jen Psaki yesterday about the verdict and the White House's opinion on that. They said did not want to get ahead of the jury deliberations, of course. They wanted to let them talk about that and make that decision, and then President Biden would address the nation.

[12:00:05]

But I didn't ask him about the verdict or the jury deliberations.