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At This Hour

Soon: Funeral for Daunte Wright in Minneapolis; GOP Senator Tim Scott Floats Compromise on Police Reform Bill; Sen. Tina Smith (D-MN) is Interviewed About Daunte Wright and Police Reform; Biden Commits U.S. to Cutting Emission By At Least 50 Percent By 2030. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: "The Climate Crisis" tomorrow night, 10:00 on CNN.

[11:00:03]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We'll be watching.

Thanks to all of you for watching this morning. We'll see you tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

AT THIS HOUR WITH KATE BOLDUAN starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining me.

And on this day and at this hour, there are real questions about where policing in America goes from here. Multiple communities across the country are in mourning and grappling with really tough questions following deadly encounters between police and people of color.

In Minnesota, Daunte Wright is going to be laid to rest in just a few hours. That's less than two weeks after a police officer shot and killed him during a traffic stop. And remember, that happened literally just miles away from where George Floyd was killed nearly a year ago.

Minnesota police say former Officer Kim Potter meant to draw her Taser but instead grabbed her handgun when she shot Wright. Potter is now charged with second degree manslaughter.

Ahead of the funeral today, Wright's aunt spoke with CNN. Her pain still so raw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAISHA WRIGHT, DAUNTE WRIGHT'S AUNT: Today we close that casket on my nephew. This is the last day that we could ever touch, we could ever see him. We want to make sure that other families don't have to go through this, you know? I mean, come on. Why do we have to keep going through burying our babies?

I sat up all night staring at the ceiling thinking oh, my God. This is really happening. Why do we have to keep going through this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Miguel Marquez is joining me now. He's in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota.

Miguel, what you are hearing there this morning?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, this city, this state has just been a whipsaw of emotion. Daunte Wright, 20 years old, is going to be buried here shortly. You have the verdict in the Derek Chauvin murder of George Floyd earlier this week. The federal government announcing a practice and policy investigation into the Metropolitan Police Department here in Minneapolis.

So there's just a wide range of feelings and emotion in this city right now. His aunt Naisha, we heard from a little bit there telling us who they are burying to day and why his death is so indicative of what the African-American community is facing in Minneapolis right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WRIGHT: Daunte was a shining light. He was shining light. He was loved. He was a man in the making. He was somebody. He was human.

For the people to protect and serve us, you take an oath to protect me, to protect my children, to protect Ben, to protect everybody. At the end, we shouldn't end up six feet deep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: And the end of the day, that is the sentiment. Why is it for African-Americans is the use of force, you know, the gun comes out first? Why is it maximum use of force for African-Americans? You know, his attorney for the family of Daunte Wright argue that's even a Taser wasn't really necessary. Even pulling him over for expired tags during a pandemic wasn't necessary.

But it's those every day transactions between African-Americans and the police department and when they do have those transactions often, police go to the gun first. To the most extreme level of force first rather than sort of treating them with equality. And that's what it's all about -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Miguel, thank you so much.

This tension between police and communities that they serve is under the microscope right now. But also in Washington where there is actually some rare hope that lawmakers will be able to reach a deal on a police reform bill.

Republican Senator Tim Scott, who is one of the lawmakers leading the talks, he says that progress is being made on one of the biggest sticking points which is qualified immunity for police officers.

Let's go to our CNN's Manu Raju who's on Capitol Hill who's been tracking all of this.

You've spoken to Tim Scott often about this, Manu. I mean, I hesitate to even use the words optimism or hope when it comes to Capitol Hill.

Can you tell us where things stand right now?

RAJU: Look, there is movement. Whether they can get a deal and whether that deal can become law or separate questions altogether. But talks are intensifying. There is hope on both sides that perhaps a deal can be reached within weeks, potentially by the time of George Floyd's death anniversary on May 25th.

[11:05:02]

But what Tim Scott, the Republican from South Carolina, is floating is a change on how to deal with so-called qualified immunity which protects police officers from civil litigation. Democrats want to do away with that legal standard. Republicans have resisted that. What Tim Scott is proposing, instead of having police officers sued in civil court, that police departments could be civilly liable.

Now not only Democrats are in favor of this. Some on the left like Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez pushed back on this idea. Some on the right like Josh Hawley of Missouri told me he's skeptical about this approach. Sometimes as a recipe and now for success.

But the negotiators are still talking about this. Karen Bass, who is a Democrat from California, who is involved in these talks, said yesterday that she -- that is not enough for her. She still wants some changes. So, they're going back and forth on that language.

And there is also other sticking points. That is something that Republicans resisted in the past. So, Kate, while there is some progress on some areas, there's others need to resolve.

But overall, the Republican approach is to incentivize state and local police departments to make changes on their own. Democrats pushed for more national standards such as outlawing chokeholds. Can they reach an agreement between the two still an open question. But at least talks are picking up pace -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: And they do seem to be serious and well-intentioned talks between Democrats and Republicans on this, which is also unusual these days.

It's good to see you, Manu. Thank you very much.

Joining me right now for more on this is Democratic Senator Tina Smith from Minnesota.

Senator, thank you for being here.

Let's talk about the police reform bill in just a second. But, first, you're home today to attend Daunte Wright's funeral. We just heard from his aunt, her pain unimaginable.

Why is it important for you to be home for this? What will you be saying to his family today?

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): Well, I'll be asking them and talking with them about who their son was? What was Daunte all about? Why did they love him?

In this moment, it's so -- I mean, Kate, I have too many times talked to the parents who lost their babies. And it is -- it is so -- it's personal moment. It's absolutely heartbreaking. For me to be here is just simply to be here in solidarity and in peace with them.

But, of course, my job is not only to be here when people are mourning the death of a loved one. I was struck by what she said a moment ago. She said, why do we have to keep going through this and burying our babies?

And when I go back to Washington, I'm going to be working as hard as I can to make sure that we get true reform. And that is what is embodied in the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Accountability, transparency, I think commonsense steps that we can take to be able to hold police officers accountable. I mean, to be able to change the systems that end up creating this epidemic of violence that is killing black Americans, especially black men through law enforcement.

BOLDUAN: But, you know, but just focus -- staying in Minnesota for just a second, mine, I mean, the lieutenant governor, she wrote recently that for her, she said, she wrote that she's grappling with the stark reality in her words that Minnesota is a place where it is not safe to be black. Brooklyn Center's mayor said that he agrees -- not only does he agree but he's experienced this personally, he has said.

Senator, is Minnesota, your homes state, the place that you call home and love, is it a place where it's not safe to be black?

SMITH: I have heard this sentiment expressed many, many times by black Minnesotans who tell me that when they see the lights of a police car in their rear view mirror when they're driving, that it sends them a sense of fear and foreboding rather than a sense that they're going to be protected.

You know, I love my state desperately. But I also can see that my state is home to some of the worst disparities between white Minnesotans and black Minnesotans, brown Minnesotans, all Minnesotans of color.

And we have to see that in order to address it. This is about police reform but it's also about the fact that homeownership for black families in my state is amongst the lowest in the country.

These are the challenges that we have to see in order to address.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, homeownership is something I have heard from people from Detroit, Michigan, what is holding people -- holding black families back to Minnesota, which is a huge issue.

So let's get to these conversations going on in Congress about this reform bill.

SMITH: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: The bill that passed the House, it hasn't gone anywhere in the Senate so far.

Are you okay as talks continue of breaking this bill into smaller parts if that would get bipartisan support?

SMITH: You know, I am, I want to just say, first, how grateful I am to Senator Booker for the incredible work that he's doing to try to find common ground, and Senator Scott, too, and Karen Bass.

[11:10:03]

These negotiations are at a really delicate place as Senator Booker has said, and I don't want to prejudge. My view of it is that we shouldn't make perfect the enemy of the good as we are trying to take steps and make progress.

But it's also really important that what we do is actually meaningful and not just kind of a spit and a polish as my mother used to say. We have to do something important. And that is why I think for example on the issue of qualified immunity which creates -- makes it easier to hold police officers accountability, it's really important that we stick to -- stick to making real change there.

BOLDUAN: So if modifying or getting rid of qualified immunity, what's in discussion is kind of modifying qualified immunity.

SMITH: Right.

BOLDUAN: If that's not part of the final language that is put in front of you, Senator, is this effort a failure in your eyes?

SMITH: Well, I see that as an incredibly part of this whole -- this whole endeavor. I'm not going to say what I'm going to do or what I'm not going to do, except that it's important that this is real and meaningful change. And I think qualified immunity is real and meaningful change.

But, you know, I'm also -- I think as you were just saying a moment ago, this is actual serious negotiation here. Democrats and Republicans trying to find common ground and I want to support that effort in every way that I can.

BOLDUAN: Senator, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your candid conversation always.

SMITH: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a bold move for the climate. The big changes that President Biden wants the country to make right now. Also ahead, as Daunte Wright is being laid to rest today, two more

communities are on edge after police-involved shootings. Is policing going to change in America?

The new police chief of Madison, Wisconsin, joins us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:07]

BOLDUAN: It is the existential crisis of our time. That is how President Biden has described the climate crisis.

This morning, President Biden is to use a phrase essentially, putting his money where his mouth is, putting the United States squarely back into the fight against the climate crisis setting an ambitious new goal, that the United States will cut greenhouse gas emissions nearly in half by the end of the decade which is just nine years from now.

Biden this morning is also calling on other world leaders to come together in the face of this threat. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The signs are unmistakable. The science is undeniable. The cost of inaction is -- keeps mounting. The United States isn't waiting.

No nation can solve this crisis on our own as I know you all fully understand. All of us, all of us and particularly those of us who represent the world's largest economies, we have to step up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Bill Weir joins me now.

Bill, one of the many things I love about you is you never hold back in calling nonsense when you see empty promises and empty language from politicians when it comes to climate. I'm not saying that's what you're hearing from Biden here. But how hard is it going to be to meet this goal that he's laying out?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: It's incredibly -- all right, Kate. And yeah, I mean, we are entering I think the golden age of green washing instead of whitewashing our sins, you know, corporations, green washing, saying we're going to do all these things and then meeting the promises can be suspect if you don't check.

But you've got to start somewhere. Before the U.S. can go to the moon, President Kennedy had to say we're going to the moon within the decade. And this is sort of like launching 190 moonshots on 190 different countries at the same time, allies and enemies, little countries, big ones. It's going to take a complete revolutionary change of everything we know is familiar.

We need to come up with a concrete that can store carbon dioxide that you burn when you make concrete. You have to come up with a way to make steel from green hydrogen instead of dirty coal.

Two percent, less than 2 percent of American cars are electric. That has to go way up. Then you have to power charge the cars with renewable sources, the whole new grid.

It's very big. But it is amazing to see these world leaders, many at odds when it comes to foreign policies, actually talking about these shared goals.

BOPLDUAN: I just want to ask you, the fact that both China and Russia are attending this virtual meeting hosted by the president at a moment when there is very clear and real tension and problems between these world leaders in particular in other realms, is this significant that they're taking part?

WEIR: I think it has to be, you know? They weren't sure that President Xi of China would actually appear. He could send one of his underlings. But, you know, he was saying that green hills are made of gold, because we're not just talking about lives. We're talking about entire economies.

You had Putin talk about a carbon pricing plan he's going to test in one region of Russia. Now at the same time, China just added as much coal capacity as the rest of the world took offline last year. Vladimir Putin is chomping at the bit to start drilling in the Arctic now that it's melting.

We saw President Bolsonaro of Brazil making some very big promises. At the meantime, he's allowing sort of illegal deforestation ravaged the Amazon. So -- but at least we're now moved from if sort of calling today a renewal of marriage vows after a four-year divorce from science and moral obligation.

At least now, we've stopped that conversation and now, it's a debate over what to do about it. What kind of resources. What's the fairest way forward.

BOLDUAN: It's not really a renewal of married vows. It really was a divorce. It was a separation, Bill. It's a separation.

WEIR: Child separation.

BOLDUAN: It's good -- it's good to see you. Thank you so much as always.

[11:20:00]

Appreciate it, man.

WEIR: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: A programming note for all of us. Tomorrow -- tomorrow night, CNN's Dana Bash will host a special town hall event, "The Climate Crisis". She'll be joined by U.S. special presidential envoy John Kerry and other White House climate team members. You can watch that right here on CNN at 10:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow. Coming up for us today, why don't black people seem to have the equal

right as white people to survive an encounter with police? That conversation is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:25]

BOLDUAN: More American communities are on edge this morning following the deadly shootings of two black people at the hands of police. And in both cases, the investigations are under way and are complicated and answers aren't simple, at least at this moment.

In Columbus, Ohio, protesters hit the streets last night to demand answers in the fatal police shooting of 16-year-old Ma'Khia Bryant. Police say an officer shot and killed Bryant as she appeared to be trying to attack another girl with a knife.

In Elizabeth City, North Carolina, people are grieving and want to see body camera footage after a police shot and killed Andrew Brown Jr. while serving a warrant yesterday morning. Investigations are under way in both shoots to figure out exactly what happened. Both incidents, though, point to the bigger environment picture of strain between police and the communities that they serve at a time when policing in America is under the microscope.

Joining me right now for more on this is Shon Barns. He's the chief of police in Madison, Wisconsin.

Chief, thank you for being here.

None of these conversations are easy, but they are extremely important. You have been outspoken that you think justice prevailed in the murder conviction of Derek Chauvin for murdering George Floyd. But you've also said that things need to change.

How do you do that as police a chief?

SHON BARNES, CHIEF OF POLICE, MADISON, WISCONSIN: Well, I think as police chief, we have to understand that we need a national standard for the way we conduct business. I think our community expects that from us. I think that we need to look at police reform from the standpoint of imagining or reimagining what it means to have public safety.

I think we can certainly do better when it comes to responding to crisis in the way we do that is to listen to our community and understand that they want a different level of justice than sometimes we may think.

I had the opportunity to be invited by some community members to watch the verdict of the Chauvin trial. And one of the things that I noticed was that some of citizens were -- had their hands clasped. They were praying. They were hoping to have a guilty outcome.

And as I looked and I discovered that, you know, this is a great case. The prosecution did a good job. Obviously, the actions of the former police officer were against the law and against policy.

Yet, black Americans didn't think that justice would happen for them. And we need to really take a serious look internally and figure out how can we fix this problem?

BOLDUAN: You are newish to this post as chief of Madison. But this is a story and real question. This happened in Madison, 2015. Tony Robinson, a teenager, unarmed, was shot and killed by a Madison police officer. That set off days of protests but no charges were filed and that officer is, as far as I can see and read and have read is still on your police force.

The family reached a settlement over this eventually. But is this what we're talking about here, Chief? I mean, is this going -- does this need to be looked at with fresh eyes, a fresh set of eyes now after what we're talking about?

BARNES: You know, I think that any case involving a law enforcement officer and a use of deadly force should be investigated, not only internally but from an outside agency and in the case that you referenced, it was looked at by the U.S. Justice Department. But more importantly, we need to figure out how do we prevent these from happening again and again and again?

And our department, we implemented the ICAT training model from the Police Executive Research Forum. And I think it's -- it should be a national standard for responding to people in crisis. I think we need to look not only at a first responder model, but a second responder model.

We're looking at things in our police department where we'll have mental health officers, mental health professionals who will go on these crisis calls. If you look at the George Floyd incident, obviously, he was having some issues that day. Who would have been best served to protect him and to ensure that he survived that incident? That's the thing that I think police chiefs should be focused on today.

BOLDUAN: Well, also a little bit about what you say is how do you prevent this from happening rather than getting people accountable on the back end of this, because here is what is so hard for people to understand. Why don't black people or any person of color seem to have the equal right to survive encounters with police?

One example being discussed a lot right now is white kid Kyle Rittenhouse walking right up to police during the protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, with a huge gun strapped to his chest hanging from his chest. He had just shot.