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At This Hour

Judge Denies Release of Body Cam Video in Andrew Brown Shooting; Mike Pence Plans First Public Speech since Leaving Office; Navalny in Court Says, I'm Just an Awful Skeleton. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): (INAUDIBLE).

[11:30:01]

Here is the thing, we've got $1.9 trillion that hasn't gone out the door yet. We just passed the American rescue plan.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It needs to be fully paid for?

MANCHIN: We need to pay for it, we do. And another $28.5 trillion -- almost $28.5 trillion.

Now, that's not sustainable. Anybody knows this is not sustainable.

RAJU: I want to ask you is that there is a push to do it by Democratic votes alone, by reconciliation.

MANCHIN: I'm not for that, I've never been for that and I told him I'm not for that. The bottom line is this place has got to get to have a chance to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So with the moment, Democratic leaders are considering moving it alone, as they did on that COVID-19 relief plan that led to the $1.9 trillion package going into law, trying to do that with a piece, at least a significant portion of the Biden infrastructure package. But to do that, Kate, as you know, you need all 50 Democrats to agree, and right now, at least one Democrat is saying no. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN AT THIS HOUR: And that's the whole ball game. And that's why Joe Manchin is so critical in this moment. Thanks, Manu, I appreciate it.

Joining me right now for more on this is Democratic Congresswoman from Michigan Debbie Dingell. Congresswoman, thank you for coming in.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Good morning, Kate. It's great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. What do you say to what we just heard from Joe Manchin? I was just listening to it for the first time, as Manu just had that conversation with him. He is not sold on -- well, definitely not on the price tag. He is not sold on the scope of what Joe Biden laid out last night either. And Biden needs his vote.

DINGELL: Well, here is what I have to say. I'm actually very excited. I believe that this is a once in a generation time of opportunity. We've all been through a horrific year with COVID-19. It's turned our worlds upside down and it had shined light on fractures in our society.

If you look at the history of this country in the last 100 years, the great depression did that. We had seniors that were living on the street that were dying because they couldn't eat, they didn't have a place to live. And we passed a program known as social security. Then the World War II came, the great war. We did the G.I. bill. Now, we're upside down again.

And we see fractures in our society and we need to create jobs. We have got millions of people that have lost their jobs. We've got roads in bad shape. We've got lead still in pipes. Broadband -- schoolchildren haven't been able to learn. These are programs we need to fix. And it create jobs and we take care of our communities.

But we also need to look at things like childcare. I have women that I'm working with. We've got millions of women that have left the workforce, can't afford to go back. I had one person who said to me, they just don't want to go to work. Well, I know a woman that is working two jobs, still living below poverty line and child care is $16 an hour and it's more than she is paid. We need -- it's an opportunity.

I would love Joe Manchin. He and John were great friends. He's my friend. He -- you know, we can all express feelings but we have to sit down at the table. I think this is a once in our generation opportunity to bring programs that matter to our community.

I applaud the president and I'm going to be one that is going to be a partner.

BOLDUAN: And, of course, this is the beginning. This is not the end of a negotiation. That's very clear. But when you look at -- when you come out with -- I mean, it was so big, it is so big, as you're saying, once in a generation opportunity. But it is so big in what he is proposing and asking right now. I want -- needs -- you need votes to do it. No matter what is being said out in the country, when it comes to -- on Capitol Hill, you need the votes. What is the strategy in proposing this when, very clearly, he's turning off moderates right now?

DINGELL: Well, I'm somebody that tries to bring everybody to the table. I made a point of going over and talking to my Republican colleagues last night. I've been talking to them this morning. The fact of the matter is we can look at the existing programs we have and we spend more money on health care than any country in the world does and we have the worst outcome. I think it's time to fix our program. We do some of the very unnecessary expenditures that's go to bureaucracy that doesn't work and take it and actually put it into delivering health care.

You know, there are -- there is more than one way to figure out how we improve our systems, how we pay for them, and that's what real policy work does. It doesn't -- we don't play it out on -- I mean, I love CNN, I love you and I love Manu and I love everybody, but we have to stand on the table. We could have to have real discussions.

But I think there is a real need, a lot of hurting people and now is the time.

BOLDUAN: Two more questions for you, if I could. What did you think seeing two women behind Joe Biden on the dais last night?

DINGELL: It was -- I mean, you couldn't -- when I think about what it was like for me when I was interviewed for my first job at General Motors and when it was asked why would a woman want to work here, and I look at my history in the workplace.

[11:35:04]

Seeing two women there last night just -- it's a lot of hard work that put them there. And women bring a different perspective. I just -- you know, we're problem solvers. I mean, I'm not saying people listening out there, I love then men, but I do think that because we're multi- taskers and we always have multiple balls in the air, we're like, okay, how do we get this done?

And seeing that I've known both of them for a long time --

BOLDUAN: You can say it, women are more evolved. You can say it. I'm okay with that. You and I speak truth to each other. You know I believe that as well.

DINGELL: And I know Joe Biden. So, I have got to tell you, those were three people, not a long time, it was of a very emotional night that way.

BOLDUAN: Yes. It's good to see you, Congresswoman. Thank you so much for taking the time.

DINGELL: Thanks to you.

BOLDUAN: A long negotiation ahead, and we're going to see how it goes. I appreciate it.

Coming up for us, a judge denies request to release body cam footage from the police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr. to the public at least for now. One of Andrew Brown's sons is our guest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: Police body cam video showing the killing of Andrew Brown Jr. will be viewed by his family but will not be released to the public, at least right now. That ruling came from a judge in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

The video is though becoming even more central now because the family and the district attorney are offering conflicting accounts of what happened, what is seen on this video. The D.A. saying in court that the video shows deputies opened fire after Brown made contact with an officer with his car. The family says what they have seen in video is an execution, that Brown was shot while sitting in his car with his hands on the steering wheel.

Joining me right now is Andrew Brown Jr.'s son, Jharod Ferebee, and Reverend Greg Drumwright, the national organizer of Justice 4 the Next Generation. Thank you both for being here.

Jharod, how are you doing today with following that ruling and just with everything that's going on?

JHAROD, FEREBEE, ANDREW BROWN JR.'S SON: You know, I'm dealing with it for the most part. I did want the media to see how my father was done. But, you know, I'm happy that we do get a chance to see all five videos instead of a 20-second clip.

BOLDUAN: What -- what are you feeling -- what are you feeling about -- how are you feeling about seeing it? I know that my understanding was that you had not seen the first video that had been shown to other members of your family. Are you planning -- are you going look at all -- are you going to watch all these videos?

FEREBEE: Yes. I do plan on -- as soon as they give us a call that we can come look at it, I will be attending that. And, yes, my brother, he explained to me in detail exactly what took place and, you know, I just felt my father's pain. I felt what he was going through. I felt like he suffered. It took minutes before he was awake. So I know there were long minutes for him. So, you know, just praying for him and to know how they had done my father.

BOLDUAN: What is the conversation been like amongst your family? You talked about your brother and he's spoken so powerfully about what he -- what he saw. What is the conversation been like within your family about seeing these videos? I mean, your brother was understandably and very visibly disturbed when he spoke about what he had seen.

FEREBEE: It's hard. It's heart-aching. I know I had a horrible feeling for my brother to look at our father being shot, being killed, you know, being in fear of his life. I know it's heartbreaking, but I know he feels exactly how I feel. And the feeling is really -- heartbreaking is one word, but it's unexplainable, definitely.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Do you know when you all will have access to those videos?

FEREBEE: I believe within the next ten days. Within the next ten days, they're ordered, the judge ordered for the videos to be released to us, all five of them.

BOLDUAN: Reverend, the family -- we heard from Jharod's brother. The family called this an execution, saying that what they saw was -- what they see in this video was that he was trying to get away, that he was sitting in the car with his hands on the steering wheel. The district attorney said something very different in court, that he drove forward and made contact with deputies and then they opened fire. How do you square with these two things? I know that you had been in court yesterday.

Go ahead, Reverend, yes.

REV. GREG DRUMWRIGHT, NATIONAL ORGANIZER, JUSTICE 4 THE NEXT GENERATION: Yes, I was there in court with the family yesterday when D.A. Womble argued those allegations. And when hearing the counsel say that the killing of Andrew Brown Jr. was justified, it was traumatic for all of us and, of course, for the family who was there simply asking, petitioning for the release of these videos.

And so the family just doesn't know, doesn't know all of the facts. The transparency has been grotesquely lacking in this case. The community is tired of waiting and the family is also at a place where they are just fed up with the lack of transparency.

[11:45:05]

It seems like there is something being hidden from their purview.

They have a right. And, of course, you know the laws in the state of North Carolina, the world knows now, that the laws in the state of North Carolina are disparity for families such as the Brown family in this case. And that's why we're working very hard to put pressure on this district attorney's office, on our governor's office. I sit on the North Carolina Court's Commission. I spoke with the state attorney general this morning. Putting pressure on all players and pillars that be to transform accountability and policing and over criminalization of blacks in North Carolina.

BOLDUAN: Jharod just final question to you. This is -- this is the beginning of what is going to be a very long, hard process for you and your family, not only having to view these videos but grieving in such a public way. I'm just curious if -- how are you feeling about the process? Do you trust the process going forward?

FEREBEE: Yes, I trust the process. I know we have strong legal team. And, you know, one thing about it, I am a man of God. I believe in God. And I do believe justice will be served.

BOLDUAN: Jharod, thank you for coming on. It feels so impersonal saying it over television but I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you. Reverend, thank you for coming on again.

DRUMWRIGHT: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, Mike Pence's first public speech since leaving office and CNN's new reporting of his strained relationship with Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: Mike Pence is beginning to step back into the public eye, the former vice president in South Carolina today where he will attend three separate events, including his first public speech since leaving office.

CNN's Gabby Orr has been tracking this for us. She's joining me right now with much more. Gabby, talk to me about what we can expect from Mike Pence, but also about the timing and the location, why is this significant?

GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, when the former vice president left office in January, he had a rule where he wanted to kind of disengage and let the new administration at least have a few months in office before he joined the choir of outside critics. But that does end tonight. Mike Pence will be making an appearance at a dinner hosted by the Palmetto Family Council in South Carolina.

And sources close to the former vice president tell CNN that this is going to be a big moment for Pence. He will use this occasion to not only give us a taste of how he plans to capitalize on his time as Donald Trump's vice president but also give us a taste of what his own distinct political brand might look like moving forward. And, of course, Pence is a rumored 2024 presidential candidate if his former boss does decide not to go for a comeback bid himself.

He will also use this to talk a lot about the -- what he views as the policy achievements of the Trump presidency, namely focusing on its actions on abortion and religious freedom since this is going to be a very socially conservative crowd. But after last night's joint address to Congress by President Biden, he is planning to offer some criticism of the Biden agenda. And we can expect to hear quite a few counterpoints during his speech tonight.

BOLDUAN: Mike Pence offering another Republican response to today to the address to Congress.

You also have some new reporting on the strained relationship between Pence and Donald Trump, his former boss. What are you learning.

ORR: People close to both men do say that this relationships remains strained after January 6th when, of course, Trump wanted Pence to block the certification of the Electoral College votes and, obviously, the former vice president did not agree to go along with that plan. They do remain in touch. However, they've spoken at least once a month since leaving office.

But CNN has learned that former President Trump was not given a heads- up when Mike Pence went into heart surgery earlier this month. That, in fact, the former president learned about that procedure much like the rest of us, after Pence's team put out a public statement. So that is indicative, again, of how strained this relationship remains between the former president and vice president.

BOLDUAN: Yes, for sure. Good to see you, Gabby, thank you.

ORR: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, big plans with a big price tag, how Joe Biden is going to try to get Congress onboard with his sweeping agenda.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:00]

BOLDUAN: This morning, a judge in Moscow upheld a conviction against Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. He appeared in court via video. It's his first public appearance since nearly dying from a hunger strike. He was visibly gaunt, you could see, describing himself -- even describing himself as a skeleton during a brief exchange that he was able to have with his wife who was present in court. That's the latest in Moscow.

A quick programming note for all of you, starting this Sunday, a new CNN original series takes you back in time through late night T.V.'s most memorable moments over the last 60 years, exploring how the genre adapted to and influenced society. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve Allen was the generator of a lot of ideas that were way ahead of its time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several critics through the years called my father the most imitated man in television because many of the early experiments he made were often used and developed by other comedians to great effect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here he is now, the Question Man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the Question Man, where he would provide the question to an answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Buffalo Bill, the question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you buy a buffalo, what do you get at the first of the month?

[12:00:01]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnny did a later version called Carnac the Magnificent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sis-boom-ba.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sis-boom-ba.