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False Stories about Vaccine Run Rampant on Facebook Mom Groups; Huge Piece of Chinese Rocket Debris Hurtling Toward Earth; Police Say, South Carolina Army Trainee Arrested after Hijacking Bus Full of Kids. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired May 06, 2021 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:02]

BEN STEELE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, REI: But I think the democratic process can always be improved. But what we're concerned about is when eligible voters are -- it makes harder for them to vote, and we're seeing that in a lot of places. And I think there's an attempt to politicize that. But we see it as a fundamental right, not a political issue.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And so you do oppose even though it's not stated specifically, you oppose, as I've laid out, the bill that is being kind of taken up in Texas, like that is your stance?

STEELE: We do. And any time we see any -- in any state, in any organization that -- those actions making it harder, that is our concern. That is what we're talking about.

BOLDUAN: REI has ten locations, I believe, we saw in the state of Texas, obviously in many, many, many other states. Many will applaud what you all are standing for, but are you concerned at all about backlash?

STEELE: Well, we have 700 employees in Texas and a million members in Texas. And to your point, are we concerned about backlash? I think what we're more concerned about is, are we standing up for things that we believe in? I think more and more consumers are looking to brands and to businesses to make their values clear with their actions.

And so as trust is the king in other institutions, I think folks are looking to say, if I'm going to give you my dollars, if I'm going to give you my loyalty, I want to understand who you are and what you stand for. So we're less focused on response or the question of backlash and more focused on standing up for the rights that we think are fundamental.

BOLDUAN: So let's say this effort doesn't change the course here, these bills get passed, the governor signs them into law, what do you do then?

STEELE: I think we look at what is happening and we have a conversation about what the next step looks like. We really do believe that when we raise our voices as businesses, and especially as united community of businesses, we think actions -- we think action is possible, we think response is possible, and we think positive change is possible.

BOLDUAN: But, Ben, do you -- I mean, would you -- part of that conversation, would you consider having REI leave the state of Texas?

STEELE: I think we think a lot about how we serve our members and how we serve our employees. And I don't want to be hypothetical about what we might do as we see it as perceived. What we will do is try to give people a place to have their voices raised.

And we've created a place called the Cooperative Action Network, rei.com/act, where we give our members, our employees a place to raise their voices on the issues that they care about. So we'll sign on to business letters like this. We'll also, you know, potentially call to our members and our employees to speak out about what they believe. And we'll have to wait and see what happens.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming on.

STEELE: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine finds an unexpected home, online moms groups. A new report into how false claims are fueling fear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:00]

BOLDUAN: A major problem in the fight against COVID-19 is vaccine misinformation running rampant on social media, the lies confusing many people and scaring many to not get a shot.

CNN's Elle Reeve looks at how mom groups have become particular targets.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAUREEN GUAMACCIA, CREATOR, CRUNCHY MOMS OF FLORIDA FACEBOOK GROUP: Whenever there is a discussion in the group about vaccinations or masks, the vibe is disturbed.

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Really?

GAUAMACCIA: Yes. There's a lot of hate, a lot of name calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They'll be like, why are you putting this in your body, things, I don't want to be a scientist experiment, they'll tell people, oh, you're stupid for wanting to get it.

REEVE (voice over): One of the frontlines of COVID-19 vaccine the misinformation wars is in an unexpected place, mommy groups on Facebook. GAUAMACCIA: You want to see? They're hesitant. There is distrust, generally speaking, like what do they say? They are concerned about infertility.

REEVE: Maureen Gauamaccia is a DOULA who runs a Facebook group called Crunchy Moms of Florida. She's had to monitor the group much more closely since COVID-19 hit.

GAUAMACCIA: It says, I just got my vaccination card and the card reads, go (BLEEP) yourself. So that's good.

Rule number one is no vaccine discussion and rule number six is no mask discussion, because a lot of misinformation follows these types of things. And you kind of want to be someone who is not going to give a platform for any talk that is not factual.

REEVE: Misinformation is circulating on social media that the COVID- 19 vaccine can hurt women's fertility, by either attacking the placenta or by causing a vaccinated person to shed the virus on to women and somehow affect their periods or pregnancies.

There is no evidence of this and mRNA vaccines do not contain the virus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unvaccinated women report miscarriages after interaction with vaccinated people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was one woman's case that they had where she got herself that shot and was nursing her six-month-old and the baby died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women in their menstruating years and not are experiencing severe side effects from people around them having received this jab.

REEVE: Maureen says those in her group trying to evade bans on anti- vaccine talk use the term medical freedom.

[11:40:01]

GAUAMACCIA: This is our key word alert.

REEVE: Wow, medical freedom. Medical freedom. Medical freedom. Medical freedom.

GAUAMACCIA: They're all within minutes of each other.

DR. LUCKY SEKHON, FERTILITY SPECIALIST, RMA OF NEW YORK: Pregnant women are allowed to get the vaccine and it is widely being encouraged. I get asked about this every day. You know, all of my patients who are either trying to conceive or they're already pregnant, they want to get the vaccine, they're interested, but they have that nagging worry in the back of their mind that this could cause infertility, that this could cause miscarriage. And we just know that this is not true. But, unfortunately, it's such a scary thought that it just really stuck. REEVE: The mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna do not appear to pose any serious risk during pregnancy. According to preliminary findings published in the New England Journal of Medicine that the CDC says pregnant women who get COVID are at increased risk for severe illness, pre-term birth and maternal death.

SEKHON: I always talk to my patients about the risk/benefit calculus. We know that there are real risks if you're pregnant and you get sick with COVID-19. In my mind, the benefits outweigh the risks.

GAUAMACCIA: Claims that are made about this vaccination particularly do target women, right? They target women. It's funny because the hesitancy that is shown amongst males is more politically charged. That's what I have seen.

REEVE: We were set to interview multiple women who told us they don't want the vaccine but they all bailed. Some say they feared backlash. That is not an irrational fear. There is a lot of shaming on social media which public health experts say does not work. Some of Maureen and Felonise's (ph) friends wouldn't talk on camera, neither would women CNN spoke to in public parks. Influencers turned us down. So we went to an outlet mall and found this one woman.

So, are you going to take the COVID vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the moment, no. I'm pregnant. But I've heard a lot of stories about people losing babies and stuff.

REEVE: Okay. What kind of stories have you heard?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard like after the vaccine, they were having like issues with the baby and losing their baby and everything.

REEVE: And where did you get to news about that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: it was an article, I'm not sure where.

REEVE: Okay. And then does your doctor said about getting the vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hasn't said anything. I haven't asked her about it, just taking caution right now.

GAUAMACCIA: It is completely understandable to be hesitant. I beat back hesitancy knowledge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kind of hope that people like will look and see where is this information coming from, where is the backing up this information. Is it something from the CDC or is this some quack doctor that who knows where he got his degree from?

REEVE: Is it influential at all to know that there are other Crunchy Moms who got it? Does that seem to affect them?

GAUAMACCIA: I'm always getting these questions. And they'll assume first that I am not getting vaccine or that I did not. So it's kind of hard to tell them. And so hopefully me talking today helps some Crunchy Mom go, okay, all right, I won't do measles but I guess I'll get the COVID one, you know?

REEVE: Elle Reeve, CNN, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for that.

Coming up for us, a rocket is spiraling out of control in space and one big problem of many probably, no one knows where the debris could land as it heads towards Earth. Retired Astronaut Scott Kelly joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Right now, a lot of people have an eye to the sky because there is a large rocket hurdling debris toward the earth right now. Things you need to know about this, the Pentagon is tracking the large Chinese rocket and it is set to re-enter Earth's atmosphere this weekend. Scientists aren't sure though where it is going to land. And the U.S. military has ruled out shooting it down at this point. And the level of risk here might not be huge but it still seems to be a bit up in the air.

Joining me right now is retired NASA Astronaut Captain Scott Kelly. Captain, help me out with this, because this obviously sounds like something out of one of our favorite movies, but you have probably the most informed perspective on this. What do you see here?

SCOTT KELLY, RETIRED NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, I think the individual risk to specific person is really, really low. You know, my concern is why did this happen? Was this just due to indifference or was there a failure of the rocket, that stage? And then the bigger problem is just space junk, in general. ou know, we're pretty good litterers and we littered up Earth and now we're littering up space.

BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about that. But this fascinating aspect first that it seems even the smartest people aren't able to calculate where this is going to land yet. Why can't they?

KELLY: Well, I think it's because the satellite is spinning. I mean, something spinning like that, it doesn't have a stable trajectory. It's hard so the drag is always changing. If it was in a controlled orbit, you could probably get a much better idea of where it's going to land. But a spinning satellite like that, you know, if you're just off by, you know, a few minutes, you're talking hundreds and hundreds of miles.

BOLDUAN: Always fascinating. So, in the military, as I mentioned off the top, the military said that they're not going to shoot it down. Why do you think that that is not a preferred option right now? Is it about the level of risk? KELLY: You know, I just think that is -- for one, it's complicated.

[11:50:01]

And, two, it could make the potential -- you know, the situation worse, perhaps. I don't know. It's just -- I don't think it's really necessary. You know, there is risks, certainly. It's going to land somewhere. But 70 percent of our planet is water. You know, my guess is it's probably going to land in the Pacific Ocean. Every I was on the -- often when I was on the space station, you look at the window, it's the Pacific Ocean. So my bet is it's going to land there.

BOLDUAN: I will take your side of any bet when it comes to something like this, that's for sure. But you raise this interesting point about space debris, in general. I mean, we have all this junk flying around up there. Do we know how much there is? And what should actually be done about it? I mean, what do you think?

KELLY: So, there are tens of thousands of pieces of space debris, old satellites, satellites that have blown up, pieces of debris that China created with an NIE (ph) satellite test. There's also a graveyard orbit above our geosynchronous orbit, where it's just cheaper and easier to send an old satellite there than it is to bring it back in a controlled fashion. And the risk is, you know, we could -- one of the risks -- the biggest risks of going to Mars is flying through that graveyard orbit and getting hit with something.

So, you know, over time, if we don't, you know, stop polluting this environment, there is a risk. We could potentially someday lock ourselves into Earth where we can't, you know, safely get through this debris field, basically.

So, you know, I think the first thing we should do is not make the situation worse. This is a really big deal. I think it takes an international effort and agreements to say, hey, we're not going to litter space any further. We need a plan to bring these satellites home. And then maybe someday you can come up with technologies that can actually clean up the existing problem.

BOLDUAN: That is -- you just told me something that's super fascinating, which also leads me to what I really wanted to ask you about. NASA has had -- it's been an amazing couple weeks in space news. You've got helicopters flying on Mars, you've got SpaceX using -- reusing rockets to get people to space, well to your former home, the International Space Station. Do you ever think about getting back up there?

KELLY: Well, you know, if the phone rang right now and someone asked me to fly, I'd definitely consider it. But, you know, I don't work for NASA anymore and there are very, very qualified and talented people there, and this is their opportunity and their time. So I wouldn't rule it out, but probably not.

BOLDUAN: It's always awesome to speak with you. Thank you for taking the time.

KELLY: Thanks for having me, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Captain, see you later.

Coming up for us, it's a terrifying story out of South Carolina that we're tracking, new information just coming in, we're going to bring it to you. Police arresting a man this morning who hijacked a school bus filled with young children. We're going to give you updated details in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:00]

BOLDUAN: We have some breaking news coming in out of South Carolina, where a man is in custody after hijacking a school bus at gunpoint and the bus was filled with elementary school children at the time.

Let's go over to CNN's Nick Valencia, he has more on this. Nick, what happened?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, just absolutely terrifying. It sounds something like out of a movie. This all unfolded at about 7:00 A.M. this morning near Columbia, South Carolina, Fort Jackson, to be specific, where a trainee who had been on base for about three weeks decided to leave his post, armed with a rifle.

Now, according to the Richland County Sheriff's Department, they initially got 911 calls about an individual on interstate 77 armed with a gun, trying to flag down vehicles, that suspect made his way to a bus stop where 18 elementary age school kids were getting on bus -- on the bus on the their way to school. He got on board the bus armed with that rifle and made everyone get to the front of that bus.

According to the law enforcement there locally, the kids started asking if he was going to harm them, and they said that this suspect, frustrated, made everyone get off the bus, including the driver and trying to drive the bus on his own unsuccessfully for a few miles. He was eventually spotted in a nearby neighborhood wandering around, asking for clothes and food. And according to police, he was arrested without incident.

But it was a nearby parent who actually had a kid on that bus who flagged down the sheriffs there locally, alerting them to the suspect on the bus armed with a gun, just a scary situation there. The sheriff said it's the scariest call that you could possibly imagine getting that somebody armed with a rifle on a school bus, with 18 elementary age school children.

The suspect, just very quickly here, Kate, is expected to be charged with multiple counts of kidnapping, just terrifying.

BOLDUAN: Terrifying. How are the kids doing? Are you hearing anything about how they're doing?

VALENCIA: Yes. Well, evidently, these children also had cell phones and they made the calls themselves to their parents alerting them to what was going on. The sheriff said that this -- they were, quote, scared to death, and that they have been offered trauma counseling as a result of the experience they went through.

This is how they started their day, this morning, thinking, seemingly, it would just be another normal day boarding the bus on their way to school, Kate, only for a man. And he was in his physical training uniform, getting on that bus, armed with a rifle. He left the rifle on the bus, so he wasn't armed when he was taken into custody. But these kids, you know, they did see that gun. And they, you know, absolutely, without a doubt, were terrified to see that and witness all that unfold in front of their eyes.

[12:00:00]

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Those poor things, oh, my God. Nick, thank you very much for bringing us that breaking news, I really appreciate it.

Thank you all for joining us for "At This Hour," I am Kate Bolduan. John King will be picking up our coverage right now.