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At This Hour

Sources: Giuliani Led Plot To Install Fake Electors In 7 States; Anti-Abortion Protesters Marching In Washington Today; NYPD: Woman Spit On, Yelled Anti-Semitic Comments At Jewish Kids. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired January 21, 2022 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: From former White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham, she is now confirming Donald Trump held secret meetings in the White House residents' days before the insurrection, and on top of all of this, new CNN reporting reveals that Trump campaign officials led by Rudy Giuliani were plotting and scheming to overturn the election by using fake electors. CNN's Marshall Cohen joins me now with more on that one. Marshall, let's talk about this plot to use fake electors in seven states to try and change the outcome in 2020. What was this all about?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Kate, as you know, Americans go to the polls in November, electors meet in December. That's when they actually certify the results of the election and crown Biden in 2020 as the president-elect. But our reporting is shedding new light on what Republicans under the Trump campaign were doing at that same time to try to subvert the process. So multiple sources are telling us that Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani were overseeing this seven state effort in critical states that Biden won, and Trump lost.

But this was an effort to subvert those results, overturn the will of the people, and line up fake electors to sort of try to get Trump in office. It's critical because this was part of the John Eastman plan, the six step plan to have Mike Pence throw out Biden's electors and replace them with Republicans on January 6th. So our reporting is telling us that the Trump campaign was involved in state by state level developments. They were trying to line up these electors, get them rooms to meet, and even created fake certificates to send to the National Archives.

BOLDUAN: Who's looking into this Marshall?

COHEN: A lot of people. Kate, some of the attorneys general in these states, places like Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico. They say that they're aware of it. The Democratic AG in Michigan said that she thinks this is a clear cut crime. But she referred it to federal prosecutors for further investigation. You're looking here at the fake certificates that a lot of people think may have been part of possibly criminal effort, because you can't really send forgeries or fake documents to the National Archives. But so not only that, but the January 6th Committee, they're also looking into it, and there's potentially a lot more to find. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Sure. It seems like it. Marshall, it's great to see you. Thanks so much.

Joining me now for more on this is CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan. Paul, let's start, if we can with this indictment that came down, this breaking news indictment that Evan Perez was reporting on. What do you think of this indictment against a man for making death threats to election workers in Georgia? The first of a DOJ kind of task force, how significant is this?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's really going to depend on how big a conspiracy is involved here, if this is just some crazy person placing an ad in Craigslist. It's a send a message indictment and then it will advise other people around the country that you're going to get arrested for this kind of conduct.

Of course, the investigation may reveal a larger number of people involved. And I would note also the indictment only listed official A, official B, we really don't even know who the people are who were threatened specifically. So I think we have to see what develops from this.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's a great point. And then let's talk about what Marshall Cohen was just laying out there. You don't, you -- I'm sure some will say this is hard to believe. But you know, you have to believe the impossible when it comes to what we saw play out after with 2020, a plan to pull together fake electors to help overturn the election. When I saw this, I thought that this goes way beyond placing a phone call to try to pressure someone or any of the public statements that Trump has made, that the election was rigged and should be investigated. What do you think of this? Are there legal consequences that Giuliani and others you think could face?

CALLAN: There could be tremendous legal consequences. I mean, we're now looking at a number of investigations pending against the president from investigations related to the insurrection to the Georgia special grand jury that's been impaneled. And now this one, which really is outlines a threat to the peaceful transition of power in the United States. It's a very, very serious charge. So we'll have to see what develops. But of course, this was part of the Mike Pence plan, Pence was supposed to say, I'm not going to certify the election. And then Giuliani and friends would have put together this whole slate of phony fake electors who would come in and elect Trump. So you know, we're just seeing the details of the plot that they had in mind when on the day that the election was being certified.

BOLDUAN: So let's talk a little bit more about you know, attempts to overturn the election in one key state, the Fulton County, Georgia DA now requesting a special grand jury to be pulled together to as part of the probe that she has into Trump's election interference there. I want to remind everyone just the part of one damning phone call that kind of led up to this. Listen to this.

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[11:35:06]

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All I want to do is this, I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more that we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And so much more. What does the special grand jury indicate to you here?

CALLAN: What it indicates is that the prosecutor in Fulton County is having tremendous trouble in developing evidence in this case due to non-cooperation of witnesses. She's been trying to get cooperation. She's been trying to interview witnesses, and she's been having problems. The only way she can get around that is to impanel, a special grand jury that has subpoena power and can force you to come in, raise your right hand and take an oath and answer honestly. So this gives her a tremendous increase in the power to investigate what was going on in Georgia and what kind of pressure the President and his supporters were putting on duly elected election officials to change the election results.

BOLDUAN: Paul, thanks so much. It's good to see you.

Coming up next --

CALLAN: Good to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: -- protesters are gathering for an annual antiabortion march in Washington just as the Supreme Court is considering a major case that could overturn Roe v. Wade.

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[11:41:15]

BOLDUAN: At this hour, protesters are gathering in Washington for a large antiabortion demonstration. It's a march held annually since the Supreme Court's landmark decision Roe v. Wade. But this year organizers are expecting the rally to be a historic one since the right to an abortion is more in peril than ever before. The Supreme Court considering more than one case, this term that could effectively ban a women's access to safe and legal abortions. Tomorrow is the 49th anniversary of Roe. Let's get over to CNN's Joe Johns, he's live in Washington with more on this. Joe, there's no mistaking this is a pivotal moment for a woman's right to choose.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right. And just to sort of underscore what you said a minute ago, it's been since 1974 they've been holding this March. And as always, huge numbers of people streaming in from every direction, this has always been a crowd that contains a lot of Catholic high school students but many adults as well.

I talked to a guy from Detroit, who flew in a couple days ago, an expectation here, as you said that things are going to be very different, perhaps this time next year simply because of the six to three conservative majority in the United States Supreme Court, as well as the cases that are before the court, including the Texas case and Mississippi case. And this expectation that the Supreme Court will do something dramatic to change the standard of Roe versus Wade, that flies in the face, of course of what we see in the polling poll last year by CNN late last year, indicated more than two to one of Americans polled said, they don't want to see Roe versus Wade overturned.

So for this crowd that continues to protest, regardless of what the court does, in all likelihood, there will still be a lot more for them to do quite frankly, because there's so many people know the fight over abortion is not just at the Supreme Court, it's very much state to state. Kate, back to you.

BOLDUAN: Joe, thanks so much for that. Appreciate it.

[11:43:28]

Coming up next for us, police in New York, they're looking for a woman accused of an anti-semitic attack on young Jewish children, all caught on video. A live report next.

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BOLDUAN: At this hour, police in New York City are looking for this woman. She's accused of an anti-semitic attack on three Jewish children even spitting on one of them. CNN's Brynn Gingras is joining me now with more on what happened. Caught on video, Brynn, what does it show?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's such a disgusting incident caught on video, Kate, I want to get right to that video. Police wanting to know who this woman is and releasing a long video to help identify her, this is her and what they say in allegedly aggravated harassment that happened last week. You can see she walks up to these children and then they say she walked away.

The NYPD says she went up to this group of kids, one of them and eight-year-old and made anti-Jewish statements. A source telling me that she made a reference to Hitler and also told the young kids she knew where they lived before spitting on them and walking away. Now the kids weren't physically hurt, thank goodness but yet, just another incidence of a possible hate crime here in New York City, which we know has just been on the rise in this pandemic and is a focus for law enforcement.

In addition to that, it's important to note, Kate, just yesterday, Manhattan's new district attorney, Alvin Bragg, who initially has been criticized for a very confusing memo he sent earlier this year about prosecuting crimes in this city. He tried to clarify his strategies, but he also expanded on them when it comes to these issues like hate crime, saying he'd like to deepen the capacity of the hate crimes unit in his office to. So obviously priority for the DA's, law enforcement, hopefully putting a stop to all these crimes that we are seeing in regards to hate crimes here in the city. BOLDUAN: Well, at the very least, the NYPD is appealing to the public for their help in trying to identify this woman. Thank you Brynn very much.

[11:50:06]

I want to turn now to this, the University of Michigan, paying out nearly a half a billion dollars as part of a settlement with more than thousand former students who say they were sexually assaulted by a doctor who worked at the school for four decades. The settlement which is one of the largest ever paid by an American university to settle allegations of sexual abuse comes after the former students bravely spoke up about the abuse that they suffered at the hands of this doctor.

The allegations date back decades. But the doctor continued to work with the University until 2003, and he has since died. In a statement the University's Board of Regents says this, that we hope this settlement will begin the healing process for survivors. At the same time, the work that began two years ago when the first brave survivors came forward will continue.

Joining me right now is Matt Schembechler one of the abuse survivors and a plaintiff in this case, and Mick Grewal, Matt's attorney, who also is representing more than 200 of the survivors. Thank you both for being here very much. Matt, what is your reaction to this settlement?

MATT SCHEMBECHLER, ABUSE SURVIVOR, PLAINTIFF IN CASE AGAINST UNIV. OF MICHIGAN: The only thing that matters to me is closure, healing, and safety for student athletes and students to make sure this never happens again.

BOLDUAN: When you say closure, does this -- what does it mean to you? Does this close a chapter? What does it do to your journey toward healing?

SCHEMBECHLER: Somebody cared. And had the guts and the knowledge and wherewithal to do something about it.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Mick, you represent Matt and over 200 other survivors, you were co-lead counsel for the plaintiffs negotiating this settlement. How do you see this settlement?

MICK GREWAL, ATTORNEY FOR PLAINTIFFS IN UNIV. OF MICHIGAN ABUSE CASE: I think this is a good step forward towards the healing process for all survivors. This was the largest settlement predominantly for male victims' survivors in the country. And it helps so transparency and accountability and obtain justice on behalf of the survivors. That is one of the key things, Kate, that we are trying to achieve and changing the culture across this nation.

BOLDUAN: Matt, the scale of the abuse here is so shocking and so hard to understand how many people Robert Anderson preyed on for so many years. He died more than 10 years ago now. The sexual assault that you suffered happened when you were, I believe, just 10 years old. What do you want the world to know about what he did, the impact of abuse has had?

SCHEMBECHLER: That -- it has been -- I don't think I'd be over to say it has been catastrophic for me within my family and personally. And I have been wanting an opportunity to stand up, make this known and hopefully be some part of a effort to make sure this can't happen to people again.

BOLDUAN: Matt, your father is Bo Schembechler, a legend at Michigan. And he is wrapped up in this too, as you have said, you told him when you were young about what happened to you and you've said that he's swept it under the rug, some of his former players have said the same. How does that complicate this for you?

SCHEMBECHLER: It doesn't. He's now my biological father. And we never had much of a close relationship. But this poses a threat. He even knew that the time to his beloved football program.

GREWAL: And if I may add, Kate, the biggest thing here is to believe, believe survivors. Have Matt been believed, you know, over 1,000 other survivors would have been prevented. That's the goal. We have to hold these enablers accountable.

BOLDUAN: And, to that point, Mick, I mean, you also represented survivors of Larry Nassar's abuse and that went on, that abuse went on for years without people -- before people believed what needs to happen to make real change so this kind of abuse doesn't go on for decades and decades.

[11:55:02]

GREWAL: Well, sadly we're going to see a lot of these cases come forward because that was the culture of the past. But for the first time in history, from the Nassar survivors, people are listening. And that actually helped Matt and then the other survivors in this case, come forward. If any message I could give to anybody is, tell the adults in the room if something goes wrong, the adults should be telling the proper authorities. But in the end, the adults in the room must believe the children and other adults if something of this nature occurs. No one wants to be a victim, Kate. No one wants to be in this position. So believe, and everybody else out there, if you have a story, there are many of us that do believe you, please come forward.

SCHEMBECHLER: And if I may, there was a time and during the time of my assaults, there was no option. This is something that was not to be spoken off. And thanks to people like Mike and, you know, and his professionalism and care, there's an option. There's someone to go to.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And it's good to have you speak out. And well now it gives you the strength that helps you to get to a place of being able to speak up and have your voice heard too. Matt, thank you very much. Mick, thank you as well.

SCHEMBECHLER: My pleasure. Thank you.

GREWAL: Thank you Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you for being here everyone. Inside Politics with John King begins after a break.

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