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At This Hour

Senate Dems to Move Quickly on Breyer Successor; U.S. Offers No Concessions on Russia's NATO Demands. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 27, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Here's what we're watching at this hour.

Let the high court battle begin: Washington braces for the fight over who will fill Justice Breyer's seat. President Biden and the justice appearing together today.

No positive reaction: that's the quick take from the Russians on the latest message from the U.S. and NATO over Ukraine.

So what is the next move?

And bracing for a blizzard: it's called a bomb cyclone and parts of the Northeast may get over a foot of snow.

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BOLDUAN: Thank you for being here. We begin with the biggest and longest lasting decision made by any president, the chance to choose a Supreme Court justice. Justice Stephen Breyer, the most senior liberal justice on the high court, just gave President Biden the historic opportunity.

He's meeting with the president today at the White House and then they'll appear together to formally announce his plan to retire at the end of this term. The focus immediately shifts to the president and who he will select, already vowing to make good on his promise to nominate the first Black woman to the Supreme Court.

Senate Democrats are pushing for a quick confirmation process. And the way Senate rules are currently set up, they can confirm a new justice with a simple majority, meaning, without needing support from any Republican. But the road to confirmation for any nominee is never guaranteed.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is live in Washington with the very latest.

Jessica, a big moment today when we see Justice Breyer and the president today.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kate. And a big opportunity, as you mentioned, for President Biden to name what will likely be a historic choice for Breyer's successor, likely to be a Black woman.

But well before that, we are expecting an official announcement from the Supreme Court about Breyer's retirement. That could be at some point this afternoon, possibly after the White House joint appearance.

But this admittedly has been a very unconventional rollout of the retirement announcement. We know Justice Breyer conveyed to the White House last week that he planned to step down from the court but did not tell President Biden directly.

And as of yesterday, the White House still had not formally received a letter about his retirement intentions. If you compare that with the last time a justice retired, in 2018, Justice Anthony Kennedy, he went to the White House to inform then president Trump personally.

And that's, after that point, when the Supreme Court announced the retirement that afternoon. That was when the term wrapped up in June 2018. We do know, however, that Justice Breyer would finish out this term because it's packed with consequential cases, with abortion rights, gun rights.

And then, of course, the work for the White House begins. It will have to decide who his successor will be. And at this point, there are three people at the top of the list. There's Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, currently and recently confirmed to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, with a handful of Republicans voting for her.

She interestingly met with President Biden last February.

And then California Supreme Court judge Leondra Kruger, she's also at the top of the list.

Plus Michelle Childs, she's actually a little known federal judge in South Carolina.

But key here, Kate, is that Congressman Jim Clyburn, a top ally for Biden, has been pushing for her. So those are the top three contenders. We'll see what plays out here.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you so much for that.

Let's go to Capitol Hill now, where the battle for confirmation is already taking shape. CNN's Manu Raju standing by for us this hour with that.

Manu, what are you hearing? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chuck Schumer, the majority leader, wants to move quickly. I'm told he's looking at the timeline that Republicans set for confirming Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court, just days before the 2020 election.

Recall that process took about a month. Typically the process takes two or three months but Democrats say that Republicans set that precedent. And they're going to follow that very quick timeframe here.

The question, can they get the votes to do that?

They have 50 Democratic members of their caucus. If they keep all in line they can get someone confirmed. But if one defects and all Republicans oppose the nominee, that could be problematic.

However, Democrats are confident because, for a variety of reasons, namely that Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, two longtime Democratic swing votes here, have supported all of Joe Biden's judicial nominees for lower court picks so far.

Manchin intended to defer to presidential picks. He even supported two of three Donald Trump Supreme Court justices. So potentially he could be on board here.

Kyrsten Sinema has voted for all of Biden's nominees as well.

The question, can any Republicans come on board?

Several voted for some of the nominees on the short list, including Ketanji Brown Jackson.

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RAJU: And there were three Republicans who supported her nomination to a lower court. One was Susan Collins. But she raised concerns yesterday about the process, urged Democrats to move slowly.

But Democrats still plan to push ahead rather quickly -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Manu, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Joining me right now for more on this is CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, and also Tomiko Brown-Nagin, the dean of the Harvard Radcliffe Institute and professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School.

Thank you so much for being here. Tomiko is also the author of the book, just out, "Civil Rights Queen: Constance Baker Motley and the Struggle for Equality."

Tomiko, how do you reflect on this historic moment and this historic opportunity?

TOMIKO BROWN-NAGIN, DEAN, HARVARD RADCLIFFE INSTITUTE: Thank you, Kate. Well, it's important for politicians to keep their promises. And especially so for President Biden and this moment. But more important is that such an appointment of an African American

woman would reinforce the American value of equal opportunity that's mandated by our civil rights laws and the Constitution.

And you mentioned this appointment has been a long time coming. Constance Baker Motley was the first Black woman appointed to the federal judiciary by President Johnson in 1966. She was often on Supreme Court short lists. But history missed its chance in her case.

And I just think it's really terrific that we are at this historical moment, where, evidently, an African American woman -- and there's several eminently qualified ones -- will be nominated to the Supreme Court of the United States.

BOLDUAN: Jeffrey, Jessica Schneider mentioned it but kind of how we got here is Jim Clyburn in part, his condition for helping save Joe Biden's candidacy in the primary was that Biden would pick a Black woman justice if he got the chance.

And here is the moment that Biden made that public statement. Let me play this for everybody.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we talked about the court. I'm looking forward to making sure there's a Black woman on the Supreme Court to make sure we, in fact, get every representation.

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BOLDUAN: And the back story to this, if anyone hasn't heard this, is classic American politics. Here's how Woodward and Costa described it in their book.

"During an intermission of that debate, Clyburn told a friend he was heading to the restroom. Instead, he strolled backstage, pulled Biden aside.

"'Man, there have been a couple of instances up there tonight where you could have mentioned having a Black woman on the Supreme Court,' Clyburn said.

"'You can't leave the stage without doing that. You've just got to do that.'

"'Of course,' Biden said. 'You got it.'

"In his final answer, Biden hit the mark."

Which is just what we just played. It is fascinating how this has come to be.

Have you heard anything similar with other SCOTUS nominees?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Absolutely. In 1980, when Jimmy Carter ran against Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan made a promise that Jimmy Carter didn't make.

Reagan said if I have the chance, I will nominate the first woman to the Supreme Court. And he nominated Sandra Day O'Connor.

And I just want to say, I'm so pleased to be on with Dean Brown-Nagin, because I'm reading her book right now. And it is such an extraordinary story about how different the world was in the '50s and '60s, when Constance Baker Motley was coming up, and the obstacles that Black women faced, even in the civil rights community.

It just is a good example of why, you know, there have been 120 Supreme Court justices, only five women, only three people of color. So the idea that we're now dealing with some sort of quota for Black women is really kind of crazy and offensive.

BOLDUAN: "Crazy and offensive" can be described in a lot of what we see coming out of Washington. So I guess if it fits a lot of moments.

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BOLDUAN: Dean, one of the women on the short list, as mentioned by our correspondents, is Ketanji Brown Jackson. And Biden nominated her to the D.C. Circuit. You supported her for that nomination.

And we hear often that the D.C. Circuit in particular is a feeder to the Supreme Court and I believe I ask it almost with every confirmation.

But I think I'm always curious, why is that?

What is it about the D.C. Circuit?

BROWN-NAGIN: Well, that's a funny question. It's a feeder to the Supreme Court because it has been a feeder to the Supreme Court. It's also true that that particular court handles a wide range of issues, including administrative issues.

And so the judges who are appointed to that court are well equipped to handle a range of issues that would be before them on the Supreme Court. And you mentioned Judge Jackson.

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BROWN-NAGIN: You know, she is known quantity; she has sterling credentials earned at Harvard, twice confirmed with Republican support and also appealing because she attained part of her practice experience in the public defender's office. So it seems to me that she certainly is a front-runner.

TOOBIN: And if I can just add, I mean, I just think the political momentum behind Judge Jackson is going to be very strong. I mean, here is someone who was just confirmed less than a year ago with 53 votes, including three Republicans.

What has come up in the last six months, since she's been confirmed, that would cause anyone to vote against her? I mean, she is impeccably qualified for the court. She was a law clerk to Stephen Breyer, which is a nice little part of the story. But it seems to me, she is a very easy choice for the president and his team.

BOLDUAN: Dean, the (INAUDIBLE) just told me that it's been made official that, at 12:30 Eastern today, the -- Justice Breyer will be meeting with the president and they will be coming out to make the official announcement of the justice's retirement at the end of the term.

And I guess, you know, we'll hear from the justice today. He's been on the bench for nearly 30 years.

What will you remember most about his impact?

BROWN-NAGIN: Sure. I think Justice Breyer, as an institutionalist and a strong believer in an apolitical court, an impassioned advocate of the rule of law, he is a jurist, who could always see both sides of an issue, the merits, including -- and I'm thinking of a partial birth abortion case, where he was very clear that both sides had merit.

But at the same time, wrote an opinion reinforcing the holdings of Roe versus Wade and Casey versus Pennsylvania. He was a person with a strong commitment to opportunity, equal opportunity.

And this was evidenced in one of his cases, a dissent in Parents versus Parents Involved, a school desegregation case, where he insisted on the continuing relevance of Brown versus Board of Education.

It's wonderful that he was an advocate for civics education and would speak to middle schoolers and high schoolers, insisting that they advance the American experience. So all around, just a great, good man.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much both for being here.

And congratulations on the perfectly timed release of your book, Dean.

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BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for being here.

It's good to see you, Jeffrey.

And to remind everyone, we just learned at 12:30, we will be hearing from the president officially on this announcement of Justice Breyer's retirement. A big moment coming up in the next hour.

Still ahead for us this hour, the U.S. and NATO respond to Putin's demand on Ukraine. How the Kremlin is reacting -- next.

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BOLDUAN: Developing at this hour, the U.S. and NATO offering no concessions to Russia on its demands for resolving the Ukraine crisis. The Kremlin confirming Vladimir Putin has read the U.S. and NATO written responses.

But the Kremlin also warning, quote, "There are few reasons for optimism." CNN's Nic Robertson live in Moscow with more for us this hour.

Nic, what's the latest from there?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the foreign minister said for us, in this written response, there are some issues that we can talk about but there's secondary issues. And the thing that's really frustrated Russia and it's demanded all along is that the United States and NATO say that Ukraine cannot join NATO.

And it is very clearly not what they've been given. This is how Lavrov responded to that point.

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SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): There is no positive reaction on the main issue in this document. The main issue is our clear position on the inadmissibility of further expansion of NATO to the east and the deployment of strike weapons that could threaten the territory of the Russian Federation.

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ROBERTSON: We got some more thinking out of the Kremlin today, because the spokesman said, look, this is not addressing that central issue for us. But just give us a little time. We're not going to rush to judgment. It takes a little time to figure out our next position.

And remembering, in all of this, of course, the Russian leadership knew exactly what was coming down the tracks to them in this letter. It had been articulated many, many, many times. So there's no surprises here.

But they're expecting to get an answer fairly soon, not today but fairly soon. Foreign minister speaking tomorrow. We'll hear more then.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Nic, thank you so much for that.

Let's go to Ukraine now. CNN's Sam Kiley live in Ukraine's capital, Kyiv.

The Ukrainian president is speaking with President Biden this afternoon.

What have you learned? SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he will be endorsing this NATO and U.S. bilateral letter, because it sets in writing what had been said in public verbally, which is, just as Nic was saying there, that NATO is a sovereign nation; rather, NATO is a multilateral organization that does not exclude membership and certainly does not allow other nations to impinge on people's sovereignty, on other nations' sovereignty when it comes to joining NATO.

So this will be a phone call between the Ukrainian president and Joe Biden that is one of thanks and congratulations, I suspect, and puts a line under, I think, that slip that Biden made about a week ago --

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KILEY: -- when he indicated that there may be some lesser response if there was a minor incursion by Russia into Ukrainian territory.

That's now been put aside entirely. And there is unanimity in the Western international community that, if there is any kind of invasion, any kind of move by Moscow against Ukraine, that there will be, in words of the United States, "massive sanctions" imposed.

The next question will be the extent to which hybrid warfare would come into play. Cyber attacks, for example, that's something I'm told the two presidents will discuss.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Sam, thank you for that.

Still in such a moment of uncertainty, let's go now to former Secretary of Defense and former CIA director Leon Panetta.

Secretary, thank you for being here. I was thinking, in your time in government, you probably spent a lot of time with one of the questions at hand today, which is, what is the next move?

Especially, when you're looking at Russia being a player here, they've traded these written responses.

Can you help play out what happens next?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, I think it's important to try to, as much as possible, get into Putin's head.

I think one thing I remember from President Clinton, when he was negotiating abroad, is that the key is to try to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and try to see the world through their eyes.

And I think that's what we need to do now. This is a pivotal moment. We've written them now a formal letter, that makes clear that Russia is not going to get their way with regards to NATO.

At the same time, Russia needs to figure out whether or not it really wants to go to war. A weakened Russia costs lives or whether there's a way to negotiate something that can, in fact, improve their security. I think that's the decision that Putin has to make and that choice will determine what happens with Ukraine.

BOLDUAN: You caught my attention late last week, when I heard you say, "We have to assume the worst at this point."

What is that, Secretary and why is that?

PANETTA: Well, it's assuming the worst?

I'm sorry.

BOLDUAN: Yes, at this point with Russia, we have to assume the worst, you said late last week. And I'm wondering what you think the worst is and why you think we need to assume it now.

PANETTA: Well, I think it's pretty clear that Putin is a bully but he's not stupid. And the real question is whether or not, with 121,000 troops at the border, he is going to move to invade the Ukraine. That is the worst result.

And, by the way, it may, in many ways, be the worst result for Russia because what this is doing right now, this buildup and this threatening of an invasion, is doing the exact opposite that Russia wants.

It is strengthening the United States, it's strengthening our allies, it's strengthening NATO. It's producing the exact opposite result of what Putin really wants.

So the challenge here is to try to figure out if there can be an off- ramp, where Putin can feel that he can get something as a result of all this. And that the United States as well and our allies can get something as well with regards to long-range security. I think that is what we should all hope will be the result of what's happening right now.

BOLDUAN: So there may still be some space but, of course, as you said, this really is a pivotal moment. Secretary, I've asked this of a lot of key players, from the Pentagon on down, as this has been playing out and I'm interested in your take.

What do you say to conflict-weary Americans?

Why is all of this in the interest of the United States?

Why does it matter to them, when it feels, probably to a lot of folks, so far away from American shores?

PANETTA: I think what's important for the American people to understand is that this is about our national security and it's about whether or not we're going to be vulnerable to Russia in the future. And that's why it's important for the president, for our allies and NATO to make very clear that there is a price to be paid here for Russian aggression.

[11:25:00] PANETTA: Because if Russia is allowed to invade the Ukraine and take over the Ukraine, then what that does is represent a threat, not just to NATO but to the United States of America.

Understand that Putin's principal goal is to weaken the United States, weaken NATO and try to restore the former Soviet Union. That's what Putin is about. And if he's allowed to be able to do that, make no mistake about it, it will threaten our national security in the future. That's why we have to draw a line now.

BOLDUAN: Secretary Panetta, thank you so much for coming in.

Coming up for us, the U.S. economy growing at the fastest clip since the Reagan administration. How the unpredictable pandemic and inflation impact you and play into all of this, that's next.