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Macron Meets With Putin In Effort To Avert War In Ukraine; Peng Shuai Announces Retirement, Denies Sex Assault Claim. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 07, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:05]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Here's what we're watching at this hour. Face to face, Joe Biden meeting with a new German Chancellor, France's President meeting with Vladimir Putin, and new reports of how big the Russian buildup at the Ukraine border really is.

Lost and found, new reporting on how Donald Trump mishandled even more White House documents than previously known and how the National Archives got them back.

And speaking up and bowing out, tennis star, Peng Shuai, gives her first interview with Western media. But was she under duress in that interview?

Thank you so much for being here, everyone. We begin with developments on the major moves to try to prevent war from breaking out in Eastern Europe. Russian President Vladimir Putin and French President Emmanuel Macron are meeting right now in Moscow. Both leaders plan to hold a press conference in the next hour. The latest U.S. intelligence assessment, paint a dire picture that Russia has 70 percent of the military capability necessary in place to launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine.

Also that intelligence warning civilian casualties could run into the tens of thousands with up to 5 million refugees if that invasion goes forward. All of this coming out as President Biden sits down with a new German Chancellor at the White House this afternoon. We have every angle of this story for you. Let's begin with CNN's Nic Robertson, who's live in Moscow for us. Nic, what are you hearing about this face to face between Putin and Macron?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, we've seen them now sitting at the opposite ends of a long table. This has become normal for President Putin meeting heads of state recently most people are at this sort of socially distance length. He actually, Putin actually address Macron in a friendly way. The Russian language that he used was very friendly, the tone was friendly. He said he appreciated Macron, you know, working with him in recent phone calls coming all this way, taking his time to try to address, you know, what they both see as a, you know, an unbalanced security situation in Europe.

There was that part of the conversation. He said he appreciated President Macron for his efforts to try to bring stability inside Ukraine. Macron for his part said he was there to talk about de- escalation, de-escalation between the Ukrainian government and the pro-Russian separatists in the East, but also de-escalation of those Russian forces that are moving and are getting closer to Ukraine's border on the North.

Now, there's a lot more detail that's going to happen behind closed doors, but that first, those first few minutes, it was a lot of pleasantries, and both sort of thanking each other for taking the time on this difficult topic.

BOLDUAN: Nic, thank you so much for that. All right, so CNN is learning new details this morning about Russia's appetite for war with Ukraine, U.S. intelligence now indicating that some Russian officers are expressing doubt about a full scale invasion. CNN's Alex Marquardt is covering this live in Ukraine's capital Kyiv with the very latest. Alex, tell us more about what you're learning here.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, the U.S. and others have said that if Russia were to launch a wide scale invasion, large scale invasion, that it would be extremely bloody and horrific. One of the biggest questions has been whether Russian President Vladimir Putin has considered how his population would respond to what would be a very bloody campaign and where there would be significant losses of Russian troops.

And now we are learning, we have new reporting that U.S. intelligence has intercepted communications involving Russian military and intelligence officials, that they -- that indicate that they believe that an invasion would be costlier and more difficult than President Putin and his Kremlin inner circle. I imagine that's according to new reporting and sources speaking to our colleagues, Jim Sciutto, Natasha Bertrand, and Katie Bo Lillis.

And Kate, I spoke with a senior European official, who also said that defense officials, according to their assessments within Russia, are not clear on what the game plan is that, you know, this is a very difficult game plan if we are indeed talking about a full scale invasion. But Kate, of course, the biggest question is, what is President Putin's intent? Officials in both the U.S. and in Europe will tell you they don't know what Putin is thinking whether he's made up his mind, whether he intends to carry out a campaign that would say take a sliver of eastern Ukraine or intends to launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine, whether they would intend to hold it or whether they would intend to retreat. That is the major question. Of course, Kate now we are seeing a full diplomatic press to try to talk Putin off the ledge and get him to resolve this diplomatically. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, still a wait and see on that. It's great to see you Alex. Thank you very much.

So in just hours part of the effort, the diplomatic effort that Alex was just talking about, President Biden will be welcoming Germany's new chancellor to the White House an important moment as Biden tries to rally allies and project Western unity. CNN's Jeremy Diamond, he's live at the White House with this for us this hour, Jeremy, what are you hearing about this meeting?

[11:05:19]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, this is going to be a key effort in the U.S.'s push to try and put a united front against this Russian aggression towards Ukraine. Germany, a key NATO ally, the biggest European defense spender, they have appeared to be more reluctant than most European NATO allies in terms of confronting Russia, in terms of giving lethal aid to the Ukrainians instead providing non-lethal aid such as helmets to the Ukrainian forces. And there's a big question over how united the U.S. NATO response will be should Russia choose to move forward with invading Ukraine.

The German chancellor, in an interview yesterday with "The Washington Post" made very clear that he is on the same page with U.S. about imposing a very high price for Russia if it chooses to move forward with an invasion. But there are questions over this Nord Stream 2 pipeline, the German Chancellor talking about strategic ambiguity not going so far as to say it would not happen. But here's the National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I let the German Chancellor speak for himself. But the Biden administration at President Biden's direction has been absolutely simply clear on this. If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward. And Russia understands that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And so that language from the U.S. National Security Adviser could not be any clearer, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward. But the German Chancellor has not gone that far. So it'll be interesting to see if they address that today. They'll also be talking about that robust sanctions package that would follow should Russia indeed choose to invade Ukraine Biden and Scholz both looking to get on the same page today in preparation for a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, hearing from them what -- the wording they use even is going to be important today. It's great to see Jeremy, a lot to come from the White House today. Joining me right now for more on this is retired U.S. Army Major General Dana Picard and CNN Global Affairs analyst Susan Glasser, she's a staff writer with The New Yorker. Susan, help people understand again, why this meeting between Biden and the new German Chancellor is so important when it comes to Ukraine and Russia in this moment?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, absolutely, Kate, first of all, Germany is the major player in Central Europe and in -- not only NATO, but the European Union has long been a key interlocutor with Russia. It's with the departure of Chancellor Angela Merkel. This is a huge trial by fire crisis for the new chancellor Olaf Scholz. He's very significant. He's coming to meet with President Biden today. There have been long standing disagreements with the United States over Nord Stream 2, the U.S. from Obama to Trump to Biden has been opposed this pipeline, but disagreeing over how much pressure to put on Germany about it.

I think Putin's actions have made that just politically untenable here in Washington any further. And so I think what you're going to see is Olaf Scholz having to come to terms with that political reality. Jake Sullivan was clear on that, Tony Blinken has been clear on that, one way or the other means that the U.S. has already made up its mind about Nord Stream 2. So the question is, how are the Germans going to kind of make a face saving acknowledgement of that reality?

BOLDUAN: And General, the French president is now stepping, seeming to step into the role that four years was the role position and job of Angela Merkel. I mean, now he's face to face sitting down with Vladimir Putin with 100,000 Russian troops at the Ukraine border. What is the best outcome from that meeting do you think?

MAJ. GENERAL DANA PITTARD, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, good morning, Kate. I think the fact that French President Macron is meeting with President Putin and Russia is a good thing, because I think dialogue and diplomacy can help to de-escalate the situation. There are over 100,000 troops and some say it's as many as 130,000 troops are amassed along the Ukrainian border from Russia as well as Belarus. There's a good chance that Russia could attack. Could they take over all of Ukraine? The answer is no. Not with that, that small of a force. But they could hit and take over a limited objectives like the capital of Kyiv.

So having that kind of a dialogue to help de-escalate I think is very, very important. And there's some things that can be done. I mean, Russia could accept a moratorium on Ukraine's membership into NATO. There could also be a multiyear discussion on stability in Europe, between NATO, Russia, and the U.S. and also to upgrade and update the 1975 Helsinki agreements that could also help de-escalate the situation.

BOLDUAN: Also general I just -- the intelligence assessments that are being reported out I think are fascinating, important and quite frankly, a little bit scary. The fact that U.S. officials are telling CNN that Putin has assembled the way they describe is 70 percent of the forces that Russia would need to mount a full scale invasion of Ukraine and everyone's still saying they don't know if Putin has made up his mind what his real intention is. What do you make of this intelligence assessment?

[11:10:13]

PITTARD: I think the intelligence assessment is based on capabilities. And certainly Russia and the Russian forces there have that capability. It's another thing though, to actually do that. Having commanded a multinational brigade in Kosovo back in 2003, additional American forces at a Russian battalion, Polish, Ukrainian, Greek units. The Russian soldiers were tough. But Ukrainian soldiers were fierce and disciplined. It will be easy to get into a war Ukraine, but it'd be difficult to get out.

BOLDUAN: That is an important message today for sure. Susan, you talked about Jake Sullivan, I'm going to play for you how he -- President's National Security Adviser answered the question. Is an invasion imminent? Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: We are in the window. Any day now Russia could take military action against Ukraine, or it could be a couple of weeks from now or Russia could choose to take the diplomatic path instead?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: That's sounds a little bit like three different answers that Jake's giving there. What is Sullivan trying to say?

GLASSER: Well, I think what he's saying and what the U.S. government has been communicating, both publicly and privately right now is that the capabilities have been moved into position. And, you know, they are very much leaning into that saying, not only is there no de- escalation, but that essentially, this is a full scale invasion force. You know, the recent assessment I heard suggests that, you know, that they're having full capability for an invasion within a week and a half to two weeks, that they've moved forward deployments that, you know, some of the troops who've been there already have actually moved to new field camps, that they're within maybe 30 kilometers of the border. So this is, you know, going to play itself out in some ways, one way or the other.

The hesitation there is because in this system in Russia, Putin remains the decider, which is why it's not entirely clear probably even to members of the Russian military forces per your earlier reporting, and also why this meeting today with French President Macron is very interesting. There has not been a one on one meeting in person between Putin and a major Western leader like Macron, throughout this crisis. So I think, you know, will it be at a minimum, some interesting intelligence that comes out of this on the part of the French as to what Putin is saying, what his mindset is right now, he's been very isolated. So I think that that's quite interesting and significant.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And General, President Biden, he didn't answer a question yesterday of whether he's considering sending more U.S. troops to Eastern Europe, in light of this new intelligence assessment. I'm curious if you think more troops should be deployed before an invasion.

PITTARD: Well, certainly to bolster up NATO's eastern flank, and in countries like Romania, and Poland, and in the Baltic Republics, I mean, I think that's just prudent. It helps to settle our NATO allies also. But let there be no doubt there's a lot of pride in Ukraine. I was just in Ukraine a couple years ago meeting with the Ministry of Defense and former President Yushchenko, they will fight for their country. And what bothers President Putin the most isn't just that Ukraine could be a NATO. It's a fact that Ukraine is democratizing.

Now, it's a slow, it's imperfect. But Ukraine is forming after 30 years of independence from the Soviet Union, their own national identity, and President Putin fears that as an autocrat.

BOLDUAN: General it's always great to have you. Susan, thank you so much. It's great to see you.

A quick programming note everyone, Jake Tapper will be sitting down interviewing Germany's new chancellor after his meeting with President Biden. That is live at 4:00 p.m. Eastern today on The Lead. You don't want to miss that.

[11:14:05]

Also coming up for us, Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai sits down for a new interview and makes a big career announcement. Why it's also raising more questions about her safety, next.

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BOLDUAN: Developing this morning, Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai says it would be quote practically impossible to return to her sport and announce that she's retiring. This came in a controlled interview with a French newspaper since she made the first with Western media outlets and she made allegations of sexual assaults against a former top Communist Party official in November. Peng Shuai now says the whole thing is a misunderstanding. She answered these questions in front of a Chinese Olympic official, which is not tamping down concerns.

Joining me now for more on this is CNN's sports analyst Christine Brennan. She's also a columnist for USA Today and CNN contributor Patrick McEnroe. He coached the U.S. Men's tennis team at the 2004 Olympics, and is also an ESPN commentator. OK, Christine, let's start with you. What do you make of this interview with Peng Shuai?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: The story continues to just be so disappointing and so concerning. The International Olympic Committee, Kate, has done nothing to tamp down concern about what is right and the facts and what we know to be the story which is the world's biggest Me Too story. And the IOC has consistently ignored that piece of it. I even asked the IOC President Thomas Bach in a press conference last week here in Beijing, why won't he speak to that part of it? And he said, well, if Peng Shuai wants an inquiry will then will be for that. Well, it's not her call, you know, she's not in charge. They are.

[11:20:00]

And to me this whole story over the last, what, 12, 24 hours just solidifies the fact that the IOC is in bed with the Chinese, their business partners, Thomas Bach is in the bag for China. And I don't think they really care other than just to whitewash this to make this like go away, so they can enjoy their Olympics and make their money. And it is infuriating. It's embarrassing. It's a debacle. And I think history will judge this well as it should, which would be very, very poorly.

BOLDUAN: Wow. And Patrick, the fact that she's now retiring, what does that do to the entire conversation now?

PATRICK MCENROE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, the fact that she's retiring, we predicted this two months ago, this is all part of the plan from the Chinese government, for her to announce herself, that she's retiring. We saw this coming two months ago. So the Chinese system is, as Christine rightly said, is controlling her right down to everything matters in what we've seen happen so far, even what she was wearing, in the interview, she's wearing a jacket of China, sort of an Olympic jacket, she's done that in both of her stage public appearances.

The ball now Kate is back in the court of the WTA. And as Christine has said, throughout this whole thing, they're the only ones that have shown real guts throughout this whole process. But they're being squeezed now by the Chinese government, the IOC, as Christine rightly said, they're in bed with the Chinese government, they're playing ball, it's now up to the WTA to hold firm, and to not go back to China. Because if they go back to China, with their tournaments, of course, which they have many of them over the last years, they're supposed to have a lot more that are going into the Tigers den because China will eat them alive.

The only recourse now for the WTA and I hope they do this, Kate, is stay strong, and don't go back to China for professional tennis tournaments.

BOLDUAN: Look, I mean, Christine, could this be a tipping point or a watershed moment because you're -- you guys are right, the WTA is the only one who has stood up in this entire thing.

BRENNAN: Absolutely, Kate, I mean, a master class and leadership, not just sports leadership, but humanitarian leadership, as Patrick has said, obviously, all these many weeks now that we've been talking about this very sad and difficult story. And, you know, I think there's a positive here, always trying to look for a positive, the spotlight is shining very brightly on China, because the Olympics are here. So you'll be careful what you wish for, right? I mean, here we are. And we're talking about this, and we're here, and we're not going to let it go. And we're not buying the IOC's story, you know, they want it to go away.

They -- these are the royals and the faux royals and the Lord of the Rings. And they think that, you know, they can control everything. Well, this time, not so much. And I think it is shocked the living daylights out of them. Talk to some of their people, that they're we're not getting it, you know, that they're not just we're not going along with them that this storyline and their ability to control the world and control whatever they want to do. Well, they can't in this case, we're pushing back, Patrick, obviously, you've been amazing on this, Kate, you know, to talk about this to shine a light on this, that spotlight is very bright because the Olympics are here right now. And because of this story, and it's not going away, and hopefully the WTA stands firm and does not come back to China. And I think public opinion will be with the WTA on that.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Let's focus on what we the game so far now Patrick. American Mikaela Shiffrin, crashes out of contention on her opening run in giant slalom the way she put it and it broke my heart for her. She says I won't get over this. I mean, there was such great expectation for her defending her title. What do you see here? I mean, and how does this speak to and you understand this better than anybody the pressure that these athletes are under in this time?

MCENROE: Well, first of all, you're exactly right, Kate, I loved her interview, or excuse me that she gave after the disappointment. She shared that with everyone. But she said, listen, I've got to put this behind me. I mean, she's got four races left a slalom being her best race. So she's expected to win that medal there. But listen to this. I mean, 229 races and Olympics, World Cup, and World Championship. She's only skied out of had this kind of accidents 14 times throughout her career, but I think she'll come back even though the conditions for her in the giant slalom last night.

Our time were perfect for it was clear, it was sunny. But remember that ski in China is all manmade. They haven't had any real snow. So it's very icy and very steep at the beginning of the race. She said, Look, I went for it. That was my attitude to go for it. Let's hope she can go for it and get it in these other races. And I'm sure she will.

BOLDUAN: Don't hold back, let it rip. That's what the Olympic games are all about. And then Christine, you've got the COVID restrictions that everyone is under that adds to this pressure and just the unusual nature of the games, but then turn to figure skating something you know so much about some real highs and also some real lows there. I mean, what's your assessment how things are going so far for the U.S.?

BRENNAN: That's great. I mean, the U.S. certainly doesn't have a gold medal yet and it's been, you know, a few days of the U.S. three silver medals not terrible but I think one of the stories that kind of shows exactly what's going on what you were alluding to.

[11:25:09]

So one of the Americans who won the silver medal in the team figure skating competition, young man named Vincent Zhou skated in the long program, the day that he wins the silver medal, he tests positive for COVID. And he can't be on the victory ceremony, he will not be able to be in the medal ceremony, if that doesn't capture the highs and lows, the notion that at this great moment for him, this young man now not only doesn't get a chance to celebrate the silver medal with everyone else, with his teammates, but also he was going to be in the men's competition with Nathan Chen, the gold medal favorite, the American.

And now Vincent Zhou will be in isolation, he will not be able to compete because of the COVID test and the positive tests and he has been so careful. Everyone says he's been alone and it's been difficult for him to be so the precautions he took. And even so he got COVID here inside the bubble. So it's really one of those bittersweet days for the Americans for him. But the games go on and the storylines will as well.

BOLDUAN: The games go on. It's great to see both. Thank you.

Coming up for us, "The Washington Post" reporting former President Trump took boxes of records from the White House. New details on how the National Archives got them back.

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