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At This Hour

Some States to Announce End of Mask Mandates; Over 1,000 Tickets Issued in Canada Trucker Protests, Nearly 2 Dozen Arrested; Mitch McConnell Rebukes RNC Resolution Supporting Insurrectionists; Russian Commanders in Belarus for Massive Military Drill. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired February 09, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Here's what we're watching this hour.

Masks and losing restrictions: the CDC standing by for some guidance.

Mitch McConnell speaking the truth.

Does this now put him at odds with the rest of his party?

A new school fight brewing in Florida, a bill gaining steam there would ban discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in classrooms. Why the White House is now jumping in to this fight.

Thank you for being here. We begin with what could be a new chapter in the COVID-19 pandemic. New York and Illinois are expected to announce today that they are lifting their indoor mask mandates.

In Massachusetts, the governor there just announced that its school mask mandate will not be extended past this month, joining other blue states like Oregon, New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware, California.

In a new interview, Dr. Anthony Fauci is declaring the, quote, "full blown pandemic" phase of coronavirus is nearly over in the U.S. New cases are dropping, down nearly 62 percent in the last two weeks. Hospitalizations also down 30 percent in the last two weeks. Deaths, though, remain alarmingly high today. Nearly 2,500 Americans reported dying from COVID each day.

All of this as massive anti-vaccination protests in Canada are disrupting traffic at its biggest border crossing and now threatening to become an issue for Americans. We'll have more on that in a moment. But let's begin with Brynn Gingras on this.

It's really kind of an accelerating push to end mask mandates, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's moving quickly state by state, each taking its own step forward, despite the CDC saying, don't go there yet. That hasn't been the case, particularly for these blue states.

What we expect to hear from Kathy Hochul in New York in about 15 minutes is to lift the indoor mask mandate. And since December, when it was put into place, they said you have to either wear a mask or the business must ask for proof of vaccination, so that's going away.

We expect to see many more announcements possibly coming out of this New York press conference. But we are expecting similar guidance to come out of the state of Illinois.

As you can see here, many states taking action, whether to do with businesses or schools. Here in New York, we aren't quite sure if Governor Hochul is going to lift that mask mandate in schools, as we have seen in other states like New Jersey, as you just said, Massachusetts governor releasing that's going to go away by the end of this month.

She has said and signaled that she's still waiting to look at all that data. But what these governors have been saying is the data looks good. Back when the Omicron variant was surging, cases were going up, the rate was in the double digits, that's all obviously come back.

They're taking the reins off. They would like to move into this, quote-unquote, "new normal," despite what the CDC is saying. So it's very confusing for many people. But the states are saying let's move forward in this pandemic, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Everyone figuring out how to define that new normal, as we're building the ship. Good to see you, Brynn. Thank you so much.

Joining me now for more is Dr. Edith Bracho-Sanchez, a pediatrician at Columbia University Irving Medical Center here in New York.

Great to see you again.

What do you think of these rollbacks we're seeing in so many states now?

DR. EDITH BRACHO-SANCHEZ, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IRVING MEDICAL CENTER: Kate, I'm having a hard time understanding what data this is based on. As you reported, yes, the Omicron case numbers are down. That is reassuring.

But it seems like we've gone from an extremely very high level of cases to just a high level of cases. We still have over 2,500 Americans dying every day. The rates of vaccinations in children are dismal. I mean, they're disappointing. We still don't have a vaccine for young children. So it's really hard for me to understand this as anything other than a

political move just to get votes rather than prioritizing their health, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's interesting, because it's partly driven by public health efforts. It's partly driven by science and we would be lying if we said it isn't partly driven by public sentiment and politics.

That's probably the combination of what is happening, yes?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: That's exactly right. I think what's key here to see who is making these decisions. These are governors. This is not the CDC. The CDC has said, wait a minute.

And Dr. Fauci is saying there is a new phase coming. We have hope on the horizon. I understand the frustration. But it just feels like we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's focus specifically on schools. As I mentioned, you're a pedestrian pediatrician and schools are a category to themselves. Some states, as they're rolling back indoor mask mandates, they're not rolling back school mask mandates yet and other states taking a different tack.

This is how the CDC director is talking about this.

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DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We've always said that the state and local jurisdictions are the ones responsible for those kinds of policies, for masking policies. Right now, our CDC guidance has not changed.

We have and continue to recommend masking in areas of high and substantial transmission. That is essentially everywhere in the country, in public indoor settings.

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BOLDUAN: Do you think the consideration -- as to what we're talking about with mask rules -- should be different for schools as we enter kind of the new normal?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Gosh, Kate, I wish we were at a place where I could say in good conscience that schools should roll back their mask mandates. I just don't believe we're there yet.

As we mentioned, the vaccination rates for children is dismal. We don't have a vaccine for those under 5 yet and, unfortunately, this can be a serious illness for kids. I know there are people who want to dismiss this, who want to tell us, look, this isn't a big deal, let them get infected, it will happen sooner or later.

I've been told that with my own child, who's going to be 6 months in March.

Edith, what's the big deal?

He's going to get it sooner or later.

This is a big deal, Kate, and we know that masks work. I sound like a broken record, I know people are tired. But this is the one tool we have until we're in a better place to protect children.

BOLDUAN: So Dr. Fauci is offering what I guess could probably be his most optimistic view of where we are in the pandemic yet. He was telling the "Financial Times" in an interview that he hoped there would be an end to all pandemic related restrictions in the coming months.

Do you think -- with the conversation we've been having, do you think we could be that close, even though you don't think we're there yet?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: I do. When you look at how rapidly Omicron cases are decreasing, I think there is reason for hope. And I think we have to give people hope. We're all exhausted. We haven't been socializing the way we'd like to, especially those of us who have young children or vulnerable family members at home.

We haven't been able to do those things. So I love that we're hearing a message of hope. I love that it is on the horizon. I do see it in the data but I just don't think we're there yet. He said himself, in the months to come, this year. Just not right now, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I want to read another thing Dr. Fauci said in an interview.

He said, "As we get out of the full-blown pandemic phase of COVID-19 which we're certainly heading out of, these decisions will increasingly be made on the local level rather than centrally decided or mandated.

"There will also be more people making their own decisions on how they want to deal with the virus."

I think it's a really honest way of putting what this will all look like going ahead.

How do you feel about it entering into a phase of local and individual level to decide how to navigate with this virus?

Because it's not going to be eradicated completely.

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Yes, I think above everything else, this is realistic. This is honest and this is what it will look like, whether we like it or not. I, of course, have some concerns. I worry about how this will be messaged, how people will get that information.

I think it's easier sometimes to say look at the local level.

How am I supposed to know in New York City? You would think I as a physician would know exactly who to go to for that guidance. I don't, Kate. And I think a lot of people around the country won't really know who to go to for that level of guidance.

So there are a lot of details that need to be worked out here in the months to come. I love that we're thinking about it. But I think the details are so scarce. And the guidance has to be extremely clear. We have to do a better job than we've done so far in guiding people through this next phase.

BOLDUAN: Great point about that and where is the place that everyone should go for their information to make the best decisions on their own?

That's a very good question going forward. It's good to see you, Doctor. Thank you very much.

I want to go to those massive antivaccine protests taking place in Canada. Traffic is snarled at the biggest international border crossing in North America. These protests are now posing a real threat to the U.S. auto industry. CNN's Miguel Marquez is live in Detroit watching all this.

What are you hearing?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Some of these protests are not so massive. There are many protests across Canada. On the other side of where we are now, we're on the Detroit side, on the other side there in Windsor, police say there are about 100 protesters total, 50-75 cars.

At this particular protest, it is not truckers for the most part taking part in this protest. Truckers are trying to get across this bridge.

Windsor police, you might say, why not just clear those protesters?

Windsor police say they want to resolve the situation using diplomacy and negotiation, seeking a solution that is safe and sustainable for our community.

The upshot is that there is still a trickle of truck and passenger traffic coming across the Ambassador Bridge from Canada. There is no traffic coming from the U.S. side to Canada. They're having to take other routes, which is snarling traffic at other crossings.

Traffic is getting through, supplies are getting through. All that stuff is happening; it's just delaying it. If it goes on and on and on, I think there will be less and less patience for the protesters on the other side of this bridge -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Good point, Miguel. Thank you very much for that.

Authorities in Canada, they have arrested nearly 2 dozen truckers since the protests began last month.

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BOLDUAN: As the protests drag on, officials are now dealing with new complications and still little end in sight. CNN's Paula Newton is back in Ottawa with this part of the story.

What is this concern involving kids?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: You heard Miguel talk about the complications. When you talk about trying to avoid a confrontation or any violence here, that is the problem. Police want to be careful.

They said in this area, which looks more like a tailgate party than anything else right now, there are people in the cabs of these trucks who came with their families, with their little kids.

That's Parliament Hill. That is the nation's capital. That would be like Congress in the United States. And what you have is a street party that is now into its second week.

Not only that, Kate, these people say they're here for the long term. They have settled in, they have free food coming in, they have water, they have fuel. Everything they say they need to dig in.

And when the prime minister says they've blockaded the economy and democracy, this is it. These cars are going to turn up to the prime minister's office. There is some nuance here, though. I want you to know these are not just truckers here. These are people who traveled here from far away to have a listen and support these truckers, even those who are vaccinated. Listen.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One hundred percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Double dose, got my QR code.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I even made and sold masks at the beginning of this. But you know what, when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, that's the definition of insanity.

We are insane right now. We keep doing the same things over and over again. Nothing is changing.

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NEWTON: You hear that over and over again. It is a minority but it is a significant and vocal minority and right now there seems no way out of this, whether it's negotiation or otherwise. Every level of government passing the buck.

BOLDUAN: Paula, thank you so much. We will check back in with you.

Still for us, a growing divide (INAUDIBLE) Republican Party over whether the Capitol attack was what it was, a violent insurrection. We discuss next.

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BOLDUAN: Developing at this hour, the violent scenes of the Capitol attack are undeniable and yet still are being whitewashed by most Republicans. Now the top Republican in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, is stepping into the divide again, calling out the RNC over that party resolution that dismisses what happened that day as, quote, "legitimate political discourse."

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: We're all -- we hid, we're here. We saw what happened. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election.

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BOLDUAN: But just as Mitch McConnell is condemning nonsense and leaning on truth, his counterpart in the House, Kevin McCarthy, is not. CNN's Manu Raju is live at the Capitol with more on this.

Manu, what are you hearing about this today and what's going on between McConnell and McCarthy?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're still divided by exactly how to talk about what happened with January 6 as well as how to talk about what the RNC did in censuring two Republicans, Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, for trying to investigate what Democrats, what happened on January 6.

McCarthy is aligning himself very squarely with Republican leaders and the national committee for having no issue whatsoever with their efforts to censure those two members; McConnell, on the other hand, has clear concerns, as you played just there.

And also other members of the House and Senate are dividing about this as well. I just had a chance to catch up with the former vice president Mike Pence's brother, Greg Pence. He's a Republican from Indiana.

And his brother last week spoke in Florida, condemning Donald Trump, essentially saying Donald Trump was wrong in suggesting the vice president on the day of January 6, 2021, could have overturned the electoral results. Pence makes clear he sides with his brother on this issue.

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REP. GREG PENCE (R-IN), MIKE PENCE'S BROTHER: I'll stand by my brother now and forever, OK?

REP. MICHAEL CLOUD (R-TX): It was mostly a peaceful protest.

RAJU: It was a peaceful protest?

What about (INAUDIBLE)?

CLOUD: Mostly a peaceful protest.

RAJU: You don't think it was an insurrection in here, violent in here?

CLOUD: There were people admittedly in the Capitol who shouldn't have, for sure. But tens of thousands of people were here, just protesting on the mall and here to air their grievances.

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RAJU: So a clear divide you're seeing about exactly even the reality of what happened on January 6. That second congressman, Michael Cloud, saying that this was mostly a peaceful protest on that day.

But from everything that we saw, from being in the building that day, that clearly was not what happened here. But that's what he said.

Now, in the middle of all this is Kevin McCarthy, and him defending that idea that the RNC put forward, that there was legitimate political discourse, suggesting they were not referring to the violence that day but something else.

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RAJU: The RNC resolution last week you referred to the events of January 6 as a legitimate political discourse.

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RAJU: What were they talking about?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MINORITY LEADER: (INAUDIBLE) but the RNC saw it. They were talking about everybody knows, everybody who broke in and caused damage.

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MCCARTHY: (INAUDIBLE) calls for those people, we said from the very beginning, should be in jail. What they were talking about is the six RNC members who January 6 had subpoenas who weren't even here who were in Florida that day.

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RAJU: While the RNC resolution makes no mention of that issue that he was referring to there, of RNC members who had been subpoenaed but there had been an investigation of other people that were involved in other efforts to try to overturn the electoral results. But nevertheless, I just talked to McCarthy again.

I said, do you support this resolution?

He made very clear, he said the RNC has a right to what it wants. So a major divide here between the two most powerful Republicans on Capitol Hill.

BOLDUAN: For sure. Manu, great stuff. Thank you so much.

Joining me now is CNN senior political correspondent and host of "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY," Abby Phillip.

On McConnell, I wonder what you think this is about beyond that he knows and understands the truth, because a lot of politicians actually would agree with what McConnell said. But they are not saying it out loud publicly.

Why is he doing this now?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, I do think that -- I mean, McConnell has been on the wrong side of a lot of things when it comes to this. He opposed the creation of a more nonpartisan January 6 commission that was originally presented in a compromise, actually, with Republicans and Democrats.

But he does understand that the insurrection was designed to overthrow a free and fair election. So there's that.

I also think he understands politics. And the politics of this for his members are very different than they are for Kevin McCarthy. Republicans who are running in Senate races are running statewide. They have got to win suburban districts, they have got to win purple states.

And McConnell, you hear this also from people who are in McConnell's orbit, like Scott Jennings, who is our colleague here at CNN. They know that this is a political loser to be seen to be aligned with something that is so out of bounds.

And so strictly just from a political perspective, they are just talking to two different constituencies here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: This speaks to what I've been searching for in this.

If Mitch McConnell is trying to -- I don't know -- and maybe he's not -- you tell me -- like right the ship here, if he's trying to do that, it's pushing against the majority of the Republican Party in Congress writ large, right?

I mean, I'm wondering, is he seeing something that shows that it is possible, is it clearly that Mitch McConnell can right the ship on this -- on truth and fact and we have eyes?

PHILLIP: I think the theory of the case for many Republicans right now is that they win on bread and butter issues. They win on the economy, they win on crime, they win on, you know, getting back to normal.

They don't win on this. They don't win on Trump. And it's different, though, when you're talking about a House of Representatives that is extremely polarized. The right wing of the House is so much further right than the right wing of the Senate, because these are individuals running in tiny districts, that are deep, deep red.

And they are only concerned about one thing and that is whether or not Donald Trump is happy with them or not.

So you know, I think, for McConnell, he understands that the broader context for Republicans going forward, just strictly politically, putting aside what we've all been talking about, about the threat to democracy that January 6 was, just from a political perspective, he doesn't believe Republicans win on these issues.

He believes that if they stick to the economy, the handling of COVID- 19, even education, they believe that's how they'll win.

BOLDUAN: Good to see you, Abby, thank you.

PHILLIP: You, too, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Breaking news: a Michigan man just pleaded guilty in the foiled plot to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer; 27 year-old Caleb Franks is now the second person to admit guilt in this plot.

The FBI arrested him in October of 2020 and authorities say, this group, they wanted to kidnap the governor because of their disgust over the state's COVID restrictions. Franks will now be required to testify in next month's trial of four other men charged in the failed plot.

Prosecutors say that Franks met his co-conspirators through Facebook and, together, they planned to kidnap the governor.

Coming up still for us, Russia's top military commanders are in neighboring Belarus. What the Kremlin says they are up to as the threat remains that Russia could invade Ukraine. Details next.

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BOLDUAN: Developing at this hour, fears of a Ukraine invasion are rising as Russia is making new moves. Top Russian military commanders are in Belarus for what the Kremlin says are 10 days of joint military exercises. CNN's Nic Robertson is tracking all of this, live in Moscow with the details.

What more are you learning about these military exercises? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, U.S. officials are saying they've seen another 2,000 Russian forces join those others around Ukraine. At the moment, the Russians here and the Kremlin are saying that these joint military exercises, they've had to scale them up because of what they call an unprecedented threat from NATO.