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At This Hour
U.S. Refutes Russia's Claim Its Troops Are Moving Away from Ukraine; U.S. Defense Secretary in Brussels for NATO Talks on Ukraine; Interview with Rep. Chris Van Hollen on Senate Republicans' Russia Sanctions Package; Growing Cries for More Serious Punishment for Russian Doping. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired February 16, 2022 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan.
Day of unity: a call from Ukraine's president to the people of Ukraine while NATO meets to discuss the looming Russian threat.
More positive drug tests: Kamila Valieva had two more drugs in her system.
What does that mean for the games now?
And is the CDC considering changing its masking guidelines?
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BOLDUAN: Let's start here. The Russian threat to invade Ukraine and further proof that what the Kremlin says can't be trusted. Secretary of state Tony Blinken and Ukraine's president and even the NATO secretary-general all saying they see no evidence Russia is withdrawing troops from Ukraine's border, despite Russia promising just that.
President Biden says Putin has amassed 150,000 troops in the area and warns the threat of an attack is still possible but a diplomatic solution can happen.
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is in Belgium, meeting with NATO allies right now about this crisis. CNN's Matthew Chance is standing by in Kyiv.
Matthew, what's the latest you're hearing in Kyiv? MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We got Ukrainian military intelligence shared exclusively with CNN. First of all, the number of Russian troops surrounding Ukraine, very close to its borders, they've revised that figure upwards to more than 148,000 troops in total, based on the land, the air and the sea.
That brings it right in line with President Biden's remark last night, that there were about 150,000 troops in the region.
It's very important they've got the same sort of assessment when it comes to the level of forces that Russia has deployed close to Ukraine.
But there is a deviation in this latest document to say we've seen exclusively. The Ukranians are saying they do not believe that that level of forces is sufficient for Russia to carry out a large-scale armed incursion or a large-scale attack inside Ukraine.
Joe Biden said earlier, the possibility, despite the diplomatic efforts, there is still a possibility of a Russian attack. Take a listen.
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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States is prepared, no matter what happens. We are ready with diplomacy, to engage in diplomacy with Russia and our allies and partners to improve stability and security in Europe as a whole.
And we are ready to respond decisively to a Russian attack on Ukraine, which is still very much a possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Yes, still a possibility; the Ukranians sort of downplaying that. What they say is that Russia is, knowing its lack of capability at the moment, is focusing more on internally destabilizing Ukraine -- putting economic levers, using energy as a weapon and, of course, using cyberattacks to destabilize the Ukranian society.
BOLDUAN: Matthew, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for your continued reporting there.
Also happening right now, as we mentioned, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is wrapping up meetings in Brussels. He and his European counterparts are working to present a united front in the face of Russia's continued aggression. And CNN's Melissa Bell is live in Brussels for us.
Melissa, what has been the message coming out of all these meetings?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the secretary-general of NATO has just emerged from that meeting with member states and he has been very clear about NATO's assessment about those Russian claims of some beginning of withdrawal, saying NATO has seen no sign of that. And what remains in place is a massive force, ready to attack with
high-end capabilities specifically from Belarus and Crimea. We also heard him go into that meeting with a similar assessment earlier today. Have a listen.
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JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We have heard the signs from Moscow about a willingness to continue diplomatic efforts. But so far, we have not seen any de-escalation on the ground. On the contrary, it appears that Russia continues the military buildup.
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BELL: What that meeting that has just wrapped up has been looking at is not what would happen inside Ukraine since it's not a member of NATO, which is at the heart of what's going on. But it's not yet a member of NATO.
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BELL: But those forces moving toward NATO's eastern flank would do, should Russia invade the country, they are already at a high alert, high preparedness. And the question would be what would they be looking out for, should Russia go so far as to attack any NATO members or any influx of refugees across Ukraine's borders, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Thank you for that. Joining me for more on this is former ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst and also with us CNN global affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier.
Ambassador, many are skeptical Russia is doing what it's saying it's doing. The secretary of state saying exactly the same thing today, they are seeing no meaningful pullback of Russian forces.
Yet the Russian ambassador to the E.U. today said this, there will be no attack Wednesday, next week or the week after or next month.
How do you read all of these signals, I guess we should call them now?
JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, the signals coming from Russia are ambiguous. Yes, they said that forces are moving from the border but that has not happened.
At the same time the MFA spokeswoman claimed a victory from Moscow as removing those forces because it shows the Western, quote-unquote, "misinformation" was wrong.
So Putin leaves himself open to do this, to move back from his confrontation with his face fully intact. At the same time, the Duma talked about how Russia should recognize independence of the territories in Ukraine. And Russian propaganda forces, Putin himself, are talking about genocide in Eastern Ukraine.
And propaganda sources are talking about shelling by Ukranian forces, also misinformation. So he's both developing a pretext to invade and giving himself an out. He's giving himself maximum flexibility.
BOLDUAN: So it's all of the things, all at once, still in this moment.
Kim, let's focus on another front of this right now. Ukraine has been hit by a series of cyberattacks since yesterday. A cyberattack and the fallout from it is a major concern not just for Ukraine but a major concern for the region, for the United States and a major concern of Democratic senator Mark Warner now.
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SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA), CHAIR, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: My fear is, if Russia launches a major cyberattack against Ukraine and tries to shut down the power or the water, sometimes those cyberattacks don't know geographic boundaries.
What happens if that cyberattack bleeds into Poland, which is a NATO nation?
So a lot of things we have to be concerned about in these coming days.
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BOLDUAN: What do you think about these ripple effects and what do you think it would mean to how President Biden responds?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: If you think that what Russia is doing is preparing for a full-scale invasion, you could say that what Biden has done so far, by moving troops, by making diplomatic declarations has dissuaded him.
But what he's been trying to do all this time is build up the pressure on Ukraine so they will make sacrifices in the disputed territory that Russian forces occupy in the Donbas, maybe give up claims of sovereignty to the illegally seized territory of Crimea.
All this Russian troop buildup started after the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last August carried out his campaign promise to hold an international summit on the issue of Crimea and taking it back.
So the cyberattacks become one more layer to increase the pressure on Ukraine, its president, its people and make them willing to bow to Russian aggression without Russia having to actually fire a shot. It's just moving troops around.
BOLDUAN: Let me play for you, Ambassador, President Biden's message to the Russian people.
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BIDEN: To the citizens of Russia, you are not our enemy. And I do not believe you want a bloody, destructive war against Ukraine, a country and a people with whom you share such deep ties of family, history and culture. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Ambassador, what do you think of that message?
HERBST: That was very smart, smart for two reasons.
First, of course, we want to always let the peoples under adversary governments know that we have nothing against them. More importantly, Biden is taking advantage of the fact that the Russian people have demonstrated in numerous Levada Center (ph) polls, that they do not want to fight Ukrainians. They also don't want their soldiers to come back dead from Ukraine. So that was a smart tactic on the part of the administration.
BOLDUAN: Thank you both so much for being here.
Let's go to Washington now where Senate Republicans have released their own sanctions plan.
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BOLDUAN: Russia sanctions talks stalled last week. One sticking point is timing. Republicans are trying to impose sanctions against Russia now. Democrats are more inclined they think they should hold off until Russia actually invades.
Joining me now is a man who knows, Democratic senator Chris Van Hollen, who sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator, thank you for being here.
Listen to how President Biden describes where you all are in terms of standing up against Russia right now.
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BIDEN: This is a cause that unites Republicans and Democrats. And I want to thank the leaders and members of Congress in both parties who have forcefully spoken out in defense of our most basic, most bipartisan, most American principles.
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BOLDUAN: But when it comes to sanctions, you're not all on the same page.
How far apart are you all?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, good to be with you. And President Biden is right. Overall, I think we are united in terms of our determination to do everything we can to deter Putin from an invasion.
Unfortunately, this is a case where, when unity would be important in sending a signal, our Republican colleagues have taken a different direction. I should be clear that the president does not need this bill to have
sanctions authority. This was an attempt for us to come together and send a united signal. And one of the sticking points, as you indicated, is Republicans want to impose immediate sanctions on Nord Stream 2.
The problem is if you're trying to tell Putin, if he invades Ukraine, there will be big costs, you impose those costs up front, you obviously take away the deterrent effect.
And also, you would create a big rift with our allies, especially Germany, at a time when unity is essential. So I'm disappointed but it does not in any way detract from the president's authority.
BOLDUAN: But there are folks who wonder, why shouldn't Russia be facing consequences for what it already has done, even if Russia does not invade?
You're saying it could motivate Putin to move further?
VAN HOLLEN: No, Kate, the Democratic bill that we put forward that we hoped Republicans would join us in did impose sanctions in a targeted way in response to actions Russia has already taken.
For example, it would provide targeted sanctions against some of the military leadership. But in terms of the big economic sanctions against Russia, their banking system and other elements, those are used as a deterrent.
If you impose the pain now, obviously there is no stick as a deterrent against Putin taking action. The same is true of Nord Stream 2. So it would, in effect undercut the whole logic behind telling Putin, if you take further aggressive action, you will feel immense economic pain.
BOLDUAN: The president warned yesterday that a war over there will be felt here.
Why does this matter for Americans and what do you think your constituents should be prepared for?
VAN HOLLEN: The president is right. If we end up imposing sanctions, there will be economic pain. It will be focused mostly on the Russian economy but there will be spillover impacts in Europe and, to some lesser extent, here in the United States.
But, look, this is a very important cause, for our country to say to Russia, you're not going to get away with bullying countries in Europe, our own allies. And our credibility as an alliance in terms of unity with NATO members is important to hear.
Again, it's up to Ukraine and to the Ukranian people ultimately to make decisions they want to make with respect to their future in NATO. And it's a decision for NATO to make. But we're not going to do it under Putin's gun here. And it is important, I think, to all of our security that we stand united at this time.
BOLDUAN: Senator, thank you so much for coming in.
Coming up for us, Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva under new scrutiny.
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BOLDUAN: Reports say she had three heart drugs in her system when she tested positive for a banned substance.
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BOLDUAN: To the Winter Olympics now and more questions on the doping controversy hanging over the games. "The New York Times" is reporting Russian skating star Kamila Valieva had two additional drugs in her system. The new drugs not known about are not on the banned list, which is important to point out.
But it is raising concerning questions about why the teenager is being allowed to compete. Joining me now, live from Beijing, is Christine Brennan.
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BOLDUAN: Christine, what is your latest reporting about this?
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Clearly we have an issue where you start to ask, is this child abuse?
Not only as you mentioned the one banned substance but two others, all about endurance. Even for a 15-year old, people are saying, wait a minute, a 15-year old doesn't need all that stuff.
But just a little edge to be stronger in that last 30 minutes of the 4-minute program people will be watching in less than 24 hours. That's what this is.
So there is that, there is also real concern about the lack of a medal ceremony for the U.S. and the Japanese.
And when will they get their medals and will it be silver or will it be gold?
The conversation is certainly continuing here, as well the women's program will be happening Thursday evening in Beijing.
BOLDUAN: Absolutely. But on these medications, these drugs, just one more note. I was interested to hear CNN medical analyst and a very well-known cardiologist, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is weighing in and saying the drugs in her system are not legitimate heart medications.
Is it possible that she has a heart condition?
But also what does that tell you?
BRENNAN: As far as I know, there is no reporting that she has a heart condition. Maria Sharapova took a different angina drug and also was banned from tennis. So there's an MO here, for Russia in terms of how they do things.
Even the old Soviet Union, their soldiers apparently used the Sharapova drug, a cousin to the Valieva drug for -- to stay awake and alert during the Afghan war. So there is that. I think where we're headed in this story is people finally taking this seriously about Russia. They've basically skated, literally and figuratively. They should have been kicked out of every Olympics, Rio and PyeongChang. And they were not.
And there's increasing calls for the entire Russian delegation to not be able to go to the Paris Summer Olympics, the Milan Winter Olympics in '24 and '26, that everyone has to get really tough on Russia.
And if the athletes continue to have that voice, I think there is a chance of that. I also think it's one of these things that -- this is the big one. This is the one that everyone is aware of.
And it involves the U.S., it involves Russia, obviously a 15-year old who we care about. There is sympathy for Valieva, as people believe she shouldn't be here. This might be the story that has legs that will lead to a resolution that seems to be fair for clean sport, which is what all these athletes are clamoring for.
All of them are talking about it. And being graceful and doing things the right way and saying the right things at a difficult time for them, as they're trying to compete, rather than talk about doping.
BOLDUAN: You mentioned the medal ceremony is obviously on hold. The president of the International Olympic Committee met with American skaters for about two hours yesterday.
What are you hearing about that meeting?
BRENNAN: The IOC wanted to have that meeting and the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee and the U.S. figure skating GB also wanted to have that meeting. The IOC sounds very concerned, which is kind of bizarre, because they're the ones that have let the Russians in.
But they seem very concerned about the optics here. They know that the United States would love to have that medal ceremony, even for the silver. And Japan for the bronze. But the concern, I was told from a source within the IOC, is to have Russia standing there, winning the gold, at top rung and then the U.S. below and the Japanese below.
It would just be an awful look. So they don't want to do that and they wanted to explain that to the Americans.
You know, the real concern here is, how do you replicate an Olympic medal ceremony in six months?
Where do you do it? How do you ever give all of these athletes that wonderful moment that they deserved?
The answer is, it's not going to happen. So that's the shame of this, that, even if the IOC and U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee really pull out all the stops to have a celebration for the athletes when they get the gold or when they get the silver, it won't be the same.
As least they are talking about it and the IOC seems to understand. But this is a mess the IOC created. If you don't have Russia here, you don't have Russian doping and you don't have Valieva and this concern about the medal ceremony.
So it's all intertwined and it is something that is so unfortunate because innocent athletes who should be here just for the opportunity to compete, they are the ones that are losing out here.
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BRENNAN: They're the ones that have to deal with this. And the adults in the room obviously failed them completely.
BOLDUAN: It's great to see you again, Christine. Thanks for staying up for us.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Next, President Biden rejecting Trump's executive privilege claims as he tried once again to keep White House visitor logs from January 6 investigators. That's next.
