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At This Hour

1/6 Panel: Trump, Lawyer Part Of "Criminal Conspiracy" To Overturn Election; United Nations: More Than 1 Million Flee War-Torn Ukraine; Florida Gov. Scolds Students For Wearing Masks. Aired 11:30a- 12p ET

Aired March 03, 2022 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing at this hour, the congressional committee investigating the Capitol insurrection says that it has evidence that former President Trump and some of his associates may have illegally tried to obstruct Congress's count of electoral votes. In this new federal court filing, the committee alleges that Trump and Attorney John Eastman were part of a criminal conspiracy. CNN's Whitney Wild is live in Washington with more on this. Whitney, what happens now?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, it will be up to a judge to decide how to respond to these claims of the House Select Committee as well as Eastman. But let's back up because I want to explain the state of play here. So this accusation emerged in a filing from the House Select Committee urging a judge to force Eastman to hand over around a hundred e-mails from around the time of January 6, around the time of that riot.

Eastman says these e-mails should be secret because he says they're protected by the attorney-client privilege. However, the committee says they should be allowed to review these e-mails because they believe there's evidence that both the former president and Eastman were likely part of a criminal conspiracy.

So in other words, they say you can't claim privilege if it's covering up a crime. Here's a quote from that filing. "Evidence and information available to the committee establish a good faith belief that Mr. Trump and others may have engaged in criminal and/or fraudulent acts, and that plaintiff's legal assistance was used in furtherance of these activities."

Kate, this is a huge filing. It lays out in detail really, for the first time the committee's major theory with a sizable amount of evidence. It also shows how many people within the administration were pushing back on the former president's claims, his insistence that the federal government blocked the election result, this is an explosive filing and is really a preview of what's to come out of the House Select Committee, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So interesting. Whitney, thanks for laying it out. I really appreciate it. Joining me now for more on this is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers. I kind of had this feeling of, there has been a lot of court filings when it comes to this entire thing. How significant do you think this one is? Is what he was kind of getting to?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's important for a couple of reasons. One, it's a well-done filing, I think they're going to get what they're seeking, which is to see these e-mails --

BOLDUAN: Got these e-mails.

RODGERS: -- Between John Eastman and other folks, Pence's people, for example, as they're trying to overturn the election results, and I think that'll help their investigation. But number two, it kind of sends a signal right to the public and to DOJ, they're not doing it yet but ultimately, the select committee, I think, is saying here implicitly, they are going to seek a criminal referral. They're going to set out in their report information that supports the bringing of criminal charges and seek that referral from the DOJ.

BOLDUAN: What do you think the Justice Department then does with this?

RODGERS: That's everybody's $10,000 question.

BOLDUAN: Right.

RODGERS: I mean, they already, I hope, have started an investigation here, although we don't know that for sure.

BOLDUAN: Guess what's the consideration for the Justice Department would you think?

RODGERS: Well, the problem is because Congress isn't the victim here as it would be in a case like congressional contempt -- criminal contempt --

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: They don't really give it as much weight. Certainly, they will be looking at the evidence that the select committee has been gathering that will be very important to them. But just the fact of the criminal referral, I don't think it carries a lot of weight with DOJ. But the fact of the building of the facts that's been happening over months and months and months, I hope will compel them to investigate.

BOLDUAN: So, this gets to -- it's all about attorney-client privilege, this part of it, right? Which people generally understand that, of course. But the committee is pointing to the crime-fraud exemption, which I think that maybe I would prefer if you explain it rather than me.

RODGERS: So if there is an attorney-client privilege, and one thing the committee is saying is there is not actually a legitimate privilege here. But if there were between John Eastman and Donald Trump, it can be vitiated if the purpose of the communication was to enhance or further an ongoing crime or a planned crime. So if Donald Trump is involved in a conspiracy to overturn the

election results, to impede Congress on doing its duties on the certification day for example and he's seeking communications with Johnny's men in furtherance of that, then there is no attorney-client privilege for those communications.

[11:35:00]

BOLDUAN: Does the end result have to happen for you know like -- would the election have to have been overturned for this to be a crime?

RODGERS: Not at all. If he's seeking to do it, if he's planning to do it, if he's conspiring to do it, attempting all of these things would vitiate the privilege, so that's one of the things that the committee's arguing here.

BOLDUAN: That's really interesting. Great to see you, Jennifer, thank you so much.

RODGERS: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us. Seven days, 1 million people, fleeing their homes. That is the size and scope of the refugee crisis from Vladimir Putin's war. I'm going to talk to the former UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband about this, next.

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[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: The humanitarian crisis in Ukraine is getting worse by the hour. The United Nations now reporting that more than 1 million people have been forced to flee Ukraine because of Putin's war and that 1 million have fled in just one week, neighboring Poland reporting that many are unaccompanied children. CNN's Scott McLean, live in the western city of Lviv, Ukraine with much more. Scott, you've talked to so many people fleeing for their lives, forced to leave their homes. What are the stories they're telling you?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kate. Yes, I mean, by the time they get to Lviv, sort of the western-most train hub here in Ukraine, they are absolutely spent. They are -- they have, in many cases, spent two or three days traveling. I met one woman actually on the train coming in, who is going back to retrieve her children that she did leave with her own parents, and I met her again yesterday. So she was on day four of travel and she wasn't even back out of the country yet.

And this is not a unique story. You know, we're talking about well over a million people who have fled the country so far. And just for comparison's sake, it took -- in the Syrian refugee crisis, it took three months to end up with 1 million refugees, and they're only going to a handful of countries, but half of them are going to Poland. The Czech Republic, for instance, doesn't even share a border with Ukraine, and they've declared a state of emergency just to deal with the influx. If there's good news here, it's that the wait times at the borders had reduced drastically. We're talking about 2000 cars lined up at the height at some border crossings now we're down to about 20 in some places. There's a lot more traffic, according to my colleague who just crossed the border today going the opposite direction, bringing in humanitarian aid. When I was at the train station yesterday, things are running much more smoothly, much less chaotic, those -- there still a lot of people almost entirely women and children trying to leave.

I did spot one man. So, of course, I had to ask him why he was there because he stood out from the crowd. This was a Ukrainian man and he wasn't planning to get on the train. They wouldn't let him on anyway, of course, fighting age men can't leave the country, but he was just there waiting with his wife and with his daughter. He walked them all the way up to the platform, all the way up to the door. He just wanted to spend those last couple of hours with his family before he had to say goodbye.

It was obviously an extremely emotional moment because they don't know when they're going to see each other again. He planned to enlist in the military just this morning but at least having his family out of the country was one weight off his shoulder. No weight -- one weight off of his shoulders knowing that they were safe, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Choices goodbyes that they should not have to make. Scott, thank you so much. Joining me right now for more on this is a former British Foreign Secretary, David Miliband. He's now the CEO of the International Rescue Committee, one of the leading human rights groups in the world. Thanks for coming in.

Here's how the High Commissioner for refugees -- the UN High Commissioner for Refugees put it today and it really hit me. I've worked in refugee emergencies for almost 40 years, rarely have I seen an exodus as rapid as this one. What do you see happening here?

DAVID MILIBAND, CEO, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Yes, we see three fronts to this humanitarian crisis. First, there are the people trapped under the shelling. You've had reports from Mariupol and elsewhere. Second, there are people fleeing inside Ukraine, there are at least a million of them, I would have thought even more. And then there are the millions who have reached safety across the border in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, as you heard. These are deeply traumatized people.

A week ago, 10 days ago, they were teachers, accountants, charity workers, journalists, and now they're running for their lives, they've left loved ones behind and they've separated from their husbands, their brothers, their sons, and they really don't know what the future holds. They are deeply fearful. The glimmer of light for those who make it across the border is that Europe is united and strong in saying that it will welcome them all and that they will be billeted with Polish families, for example, most of the refugees will go to Poland. So there's a glimmer of hope there, but there's deep fear, and there's real trauma inside the country. BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And you wrote that this is a true moral crisis for the West and that the West needs to do more. And look, we know that when it comes to moral responsibility with regard to refugees, the West, the world has failed many times before. What is the more David?

MILIBAND: I think that there are two aspects to this at the moment directly for those who are coming across the Ukraine border.

[11:45:00]

MILIBAND: It's very, very important that they get full refugee status whether an EU, a European Union country, 27 countries in Europe, or countries in Europe that are outside the European Union, Britain, Norway, Switzerland, all those countries need to team up together so that they all play their part in giving full refugee status with rights to work for the Ukrainians' access to services. There's then the second aspect of this moral challenge, we can't have the people of Afghanistan or of Ethiopia, or of Somalia, or of Syria, paying the price for the -- for the Ukraine crisis.

The world needs to be able to address the needs of people who flee Ukraine and do much, much better for those who are on the wrong end of impunity in other parts of the world as well. Because this is a global challenge, that the assumptions of 30 years ago at the end of the Cold War, that Accountable Government, the open markets would be the word of future. That's what some of the challenges through this rise of impunity, the abuse of power, and that's what refugees need protection from.

BOLDUAN: And all coming from one man right now, Vladimir Putin. A Ukrainian Member of Parliament said something today that is worth discussing. Noting that there is now a 90 country coalition supporting Ukraine, she said this. If 90 countries in the world cannot do anything to one single bully, and if the tyranny wins in demand -- and democracy loses, that means there's something wrong with this world. She also said this. Let me play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEKSANDRA USTINOVA, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: We have Russia sitting on the Security Council of the United Nations telling the world what to do for security. The country that threatens everybody was nuclear weapons, and nobody does anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you think after what we've seen here, that Russia should be allowed to remain on the UN Security Council after this?

MILIBAND: Well, the foundation of the UN after the end of the Second World War gave enormous power to five countries, the U.S., Russia, China, France, and the UK, those were the countries that were dominant in 1945 and they have a veto on all change. But what -- where I agree with the Ukrainian Member of Parliament incredibly brave, is that their system failure at the moment. System failure because diplomacy has broken down, system failure

because the legal regime offers protection for civilians has broken down, system failure because states are failing in their responsibilities to their own citizens and that's why we've called for a reboot of the system to rediscover the founding values of the United Nations. The U.S. has to be a big part of that. And the immediate struggle is obviously to ensure that impunity, tyranny does not succeed in their immediate goals.

There's then a much bigger argument about how the world governs itself 70 years on from the end of the Second World War. Because make no mistake, there was a fundamental attempt here to rewrite the rules of the global order. And that's why it does involve countries far away from Ukraine like the U.S., as the President said in the State of the Union on Tuesday.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and how Vladimir Putin in just one week shatters decades of security in Europe needs to be addressed going forward. It's great to see you. Thank you for coming in. I really appreciate it.

MILIBAND: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: For more information about how you can help the people of Ukraine, please go to cnn.com/impact, many resources there for you to look at. Still ahead for us, Florida's governor, scolding students for wearing masks at a public event and calling it ridiculous. What Governor DeSantis is trying to do here? That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R-FL): This is ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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BOLDUAN: Things are drastically improving in the United States when it comes to the pandemic. New Coronavirus cases down nearly 30 percent in the last week, hospitalizations have plummeted 70 percent since the January peak, mask mandates as we all know are going away across the country but still, there's this moment with Florida's governor Ron DeSantis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESANTIS: You do not have to wear those masks. I mean, please take them off. Honestly, it's not doing anything and we've got to stop with this COVID Theater. So, if you want to wear it, fine. But this is a -- this is ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You may not have to but the governor there scolding a group of high school students for exercising their right to wear a mask if they want to. CNN's Steve Contorno, live in Florida with more on this. Steve, what do you think is going on? STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, that video, Kate went viral very quickly and Governor DeSantis is earning widespread criticism from Democrats for being a -- they're calling him a bully and a hypocrite because he's been all about mask choice. But the governor is not backing down. In fact, he's doubling down really. He tweeted out the video, he's fundraising off of it, and he's just now giving a press conference where he is standing by his opposition to mask as we enter this next phase of this pandemic.

And really we should talk about Florida's history leading up to this moment and sort of what we've seen in this country as we enter the next phase of the pandemic. We have -- we're now coming up on almost 1 million Coronavirus deaths across the U.S. which with up to 1800 people still dying almost every day. Florida recently surpassed 70,000 deaths and hundreds more are recorded every single week. And overall, Florida has the third-most deaths in the countries by state trailing only Texas and California. Though if you look at per-capita deaths, Florida's actually doing far worse than those states and worse than the country overall.

[11:55:00]

CONTORNO: It's also worth pointing out that this whole event yesterday that DeSantis was at, took place in Hillsborough County. Hillsborough County still has a high risk of transmission for COVID right now as defined by the CDC, meaning according to the CDC, they recommend you wear a mask indoors inflow -- in that county at this time. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Steve, thank you so much. Also leaving open the possibility that the governor definitely may have known that Mike was right there. Thank you so much, Steve. And thank you all so much for being here AT THIS HOUR. I'm Kate Bolduan. INSIDE POLITICS with John King starts after this break.

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