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Wash Post: WH Logs Show 7-Hour Gap In Trump Calls On Jan. 6; Russia Vows To "Drastically Reduce" Attacks As Talks Underway; Will Smith Apologizes To Chris Rock For Slapping Him At Oscars. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 29, 2022 - 11:30   ET



GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they think a lot might be missing because of course, it was the day of the insurrection and they have a call say with Jim Jordan at 9:24 in the morning, and then nothing again until later in the afternoon when he -- there were some recorded phone calls.

What we reported, Jamie Gangel and I back in -- back in February was that the phones have always been an issue for Donald Trump. He was always worried that people were going to listen in on his phone calls. So what he did was he had some aides who always used to sort of handing him a phone to use if he wanted to make an outgoing call or people would call like Dan Scavino or Mark Meadows or even Ivanka Trump and say can you give your father the phone, Ivanka, because we need to talk to him.

So, it was his kind of paranoia about people listening in. He often left his own cell phone up in the private residence a lot, but didn't -- just didn't like to use the official phone because he didn't want people hearing what he had to say.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: And, Jennifer, I mean what do -- you what do you think of that -- of like this great reporting from Gloria on this? Because what if he used not -- what if, we Gloria know -- we know from Gloria's reporting that he did use other people's phones quite often, on the regular if you will. How much of a challenge -- what more of a challenge does this present in trying to piece together? What do you want -- the information you want to get?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a huge challenge. You're going to have to look to all the people who were around him, right? They can look at the people who they knew were with him, right? Mark Meadows, for example, were there with him at the time. They can look to the people who spoke with him a lot to see what's on their phones. But it really is a challenge, especially if they're using these burner phones and he claims no knowledge of -- they don't even have subscriber information attached to that.

BOLDUAN: Is it different in -- look, we don't know. There's some reporting that there is a possibility of burner phones, but we don't really know. Is there -- I'm mean like, even the legal -- in the legal framework, is there a difference between "the definition of a burner phone and using someone else's phone?"

RODGERS: Not that there's a charge for that or anything.


RODGERS: But if you are a White House employee, there's presumably no reason that you would have that kind of a phone. So it's not that you could charge anyone with that or that there's any, you know, legal reason but if you're actually at trial, you could use that sort of thing to show that it again, was a way to try to hide what they were doing exactly.

BOLDUAN: All right. (INAUDIBLE). Gloria, one thing we know that happened in that multi-hour-long gap is the eventual Trump video from the Rose Garden. To remind everyone, I'm going to play that for everybody.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was a fraudulent election but we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very special.


BOLDUAN: And there has been a lot of reporting around the story behind this video, including the belief that there were multiple takes that they did with the president before they got what they wanted to use. What more do you think the committee wants to know about this?

BORGER: They want to see them. I think they'd like to find those videos. And what we don't know at this point is whether they're part of the archival information that will be handed over to the January 6 Committee. If the president did do multiple takes, and people were standing there saying, you know, that's not good enough, you have to be tougher on the people who stormed the Capitol, and you have to, you know, they were coaching him, it would be very useful, I think, for the committee as a way to try and look at the president's intent and try and figure out what was going on in his head and how he was really feeling about these insurrectionists.

And so if that was the final take that they could get, imagine what the ones before look like. So we don't know what they're going to say. We don't know -- we're presuming the Archives has them. I spoke with someone who said -- I said, could it have been taken on someone's cell phone like Dan Scavino, who usually, you know, took a lot of photographs and stuff for the president. I was told probably not. That it would -- if it were anywhere it would be in the archival information so I think we kind of, have to wait on that.

BOLDUAN: Another layer of this is just yesterday, Jennifer, Dan Scavino, who we're talking about. He's obviously known to be with the president a lot, known to be one of the people who would give the president his phone. Just yesterday, the House Committee voted to refer him to the Justice Department on criminal contempt of Congress charge because he has not been cooperating. So you have to -- you layer that in, and I'm wondering if they're not cooperating, what are the options to getting this information from other avenues if you've -- in -- if he -- in other ways to get down to the bottom of this?

RODGERS: Yes. I mean, that's really been their problem, the people who are stonewalling them refusing to cooperate, you know, how are you going to find out? If it's a conversation with someone else, of course, you try to go to that other person. But there's going to be some information that if he refuses to turn it over, and he and the president and the only two people who had that conversation, there's no recording of it, you know, you're not going to be able to get it.

So, that's why they're trying so hard with the subpoena. Maybe with a contempt charge would cause him to want to come in. That's -- you know they're trying all of their options then -- and then you know maybe immunity would be the way to get them in if nothing else works.


BOLDUAN: Good to see you, Jennifer. Thank you. Gloria, thank you as always.

BORGER: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, as Russia makes promises to scale back its attacks in some cities, Lviv's mayor is warning Ukrainians to need to be ready for months of the war. He's our guest next.



BOLDUAN: For the first time since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, both sides are now signaling some progress from talks. That took place in Istanbul today. Russia is saying it is going to scale back its military activity near Kyiv and the city of Chernihiv. And the Ukrainian negotiator says that there have been enough developments to justify a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin at some point.

And joining me now is the mayor of Lviv, Andriy Sadovyi. Mayor, thank you very much for being here. In a possible first sign of progress in the peace talks, the Russians today said they are radically reducing military activity near Kyiv and Chernihiv. What's your reaction to that?

ANDRIY SADOVYI, MAYOR OF LVIV, UKRAINE: Speaking a foreign language.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia cannot be believed. Russia lies all the time. I am speaking to you now from a bomb shelter. And as you know, Russia is sending missiles all the time. Yesterday, three missiles were intercepted heading for Lviv. On Saturday, as you know, six missiles were struck into Lviv and hitting two large enterprises -- two large industrial facilities. So when there is a physical withdrawal from our land, then we can say everything is OK. Until then, we do not believe.

BOLDUAN: If Russian forces are moving away from Kyiv, moving away from Chernihiv, do you think -- especially after the attacks that you're seeing now in Lviv, do you expect this now means Lviv will face more direct attacks, more bombardment?

SADOVYI: Today, all cities in Ukraine have very similar situations. I don't know -- I don't know where is the next target for Russian missiles. (Speaking a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cannot believe Russians. They're lying all the time. And now by hitting Lviv, they are striking near the border between Ukraine and Europe, between Ukraine and NATO. Once they withdraw the troops then we can say it's OK.

BOLDUAN: Mayor, do you consider Lviv a safe place right now?

SADOVYI: All cities have similar situations and Lviv, more safe than Mariupol, than Kyiv, than Chernihiv. But I don't know where the target for the Russian missile is.

BOLDUAN: Your city has taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees as well. What kind of strain is that putting on your city as you're also now facing these attacks?

SADOVYI: You must understand. Population in the city of Lviv, 1 million citizens but Lviv host 200,000 refugees. And it is a huge pressure to my city but we have good management in Lviv, public transport's OK, (INAUDIBLE) OK, or atrocity. OK, gas, OK. (Speaking a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a big strain on our city, but we are ready to receive them because these are our Ukrainians and we must help them.

BOLDUAN: At this point, how long do you expect this war to last, Mayor?

SADOVYI: (Speaking a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think we need to preserve our energy and keep our forces prepared at least until the end of summer because you can expect anything from Russia. Look what they've done to our cities, thousands of buildings destroyed, hundreds of hospitals, thousands of people killed. And Russia today is a Nazi country. You can expect anything from them.

BOLDUAN: Mayor, you said Russian Putin cannot be trusted. What is your reaction to hearing President Biden say that Putin cannot remain in power, and then also saying he is not pushing version change?

SADOVYI: (Speaking a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia is -- Russia must end this war and Putin must leave office. The whole world must isolate Russia because this is a country that is destroying Ukrainians and this is a country that's killing us. And it isn't just one Putin. There are 200,000 Russians Soldiers in our country. They are killing us, they are raping our women and this is what the Nazis did in the Second World War. And so the whole world, whoever is cooperating with Russia now, they must realize that they're cooperating with the Nazis.


BOLDUAN: Mayor, thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. The Mayor of Lviv, Ukraine. For more information on how you can help the people of Ukraine go to Coming up for us, Will Smith issues a second apology this time saying he's sorry directly to Chris Rock. Still, the academy is now further investigating that shocking incident that played out on live TV. What could happen now? That's next.



BOLDUAN: AT THIS HOUR, Will Smith is apologizing directly to Chris Rock after the actor slap the comedian in a shocking onstage incident that played out on live TV during the Oscars. In a statement, Smith now says that he reacted emotionally after Chris Rock made a joke about his wife saying "I was out of line," and also saying that his actions were not indicative of the man that I want to be. Will Smith says. On Monday, the academy announced that it is launching a formal review of the incident.

So, joining me now is Solomon Jones, radio host, and columnist for The Philadelphia Inquirer. Thanks for coming in.


BOLDUAN: The headline of your column grabbed me and I -- and a lot of people I was talking to. Your headline on this was Will Smith and Chris Rock should have both known better. And you also write this. You write that hitting another black man on the world stage is an error and our community can't afford it. Tell us why.

JONES: Well, we are currently undergoing a crisis of gun violence in Philadelphia, Will Smith's hometown, and mine, where we had over 500 murders last year, murders up 3 percent this year, at this time, at about 120. And many of those murders we now know started with arguments. They start with disagreements. They start with the inability to solve conflict without violence. And so to see someone of Will Smith's stature, someone who many of our young people look up to and aspire to be, do something like that on national television sets a terrible example for these young men whose lives we're trying to save.

BOLDUAN: You said they both should know better. So Chris Rock should know better too.

JONES: Absolutely, Chris Rock should know better. He insulted Jada Pinkett Smith and again, it was a joke in 2016 talking about her decision to boycott the Oscars because she was a TV personality and not someone who was currently in movies at that time. He said she hadn't been invited anyway. And then went back this year and insulted her again. I think that this year, the thing that was different is that Jada

Pinkett Smith is experiencing a medical condition called alopecia. And the reason I say Chris Rock should know better is that he was the writer and star of a documentary called Good Hair in 2009 that looked at the black hair industry, looked at the disrespect and disdain around black hair, but looked at also the triumph of black hair.

The irony for me is that he interviewed a sister with alopecia and talked about how hurtful it was to go through that and deal with that condition. And so for many reasons, he should have known better and that's among the chief reasons he should have.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Here, Jada Pinkett Smith just made her first comment about all of this posting on Instagram just a little while ago, just the words in -- here are the words that she posted. This is the season for healing and I'm here for it.


BOLDUAN: And that is one thing I'd say, Solomon, that's been missing in this -- in the -- you know, the two days that we've been talking about it is what does Jada -- how does Jada feel about it? What do you think of that statement?

JONES: Yes. I think it's a powerful statement. Um, I think also that Jada Pinkett Smith is somebody who understands media, understands Hollywood, understands the power of a moment, and has really benefited from I think being very open about what's going on in her family and in her marriage. And I think in some ways, maybe that hasn't been helpful for everyone.

I look at Will Smith and wonder if he is dealing with the fallout of having his life and his family's life and his marriage, be so public. She talked about an entanglement that she had with another man. And I just wonder if that creates some stress. I know it would, for me or for most men. And so, um, you know, I think if it's a seal -- the season of healing, then I would love to see the two of them kind of heal together and privately and not on this public stage.

BOLDUAN: And, Solomon, the Academy is now saying it's going to explore further action and consequences for Will Smith.


BOLDUAN: You know, in the age of canceled culture and the backlash to it, what do you think is appropriate?

JONES: Oh, gosh, I think that there has to be a consequence. I would hope that it wouldn't be the ultimate consequence of taking away his academy award. Will Smith is from my hometown. I've had some interaction with him here when we were much younger, but I think he's always been a good guy. And I think he still is. I think he made a mistake. I think it was a terrible mistake. I think there should be some consequence, but I think he should be allowed to keep his academy award and move forward from here.

BOLDUAN: Solomon Jones, thanks for coming in.


JONES: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Thanks all for being here. But before we go you, can get up- to-date on the five stories you need to know to start your day. You can join me each morning on my new CNN Plus show, 5 Things, at 7 a.m. Eastern and always available on demand. It was a big first day for us today. You can sign up at CNN's coverage of Russia's war in Ukraine continues on INSIDE POLITICS after this.