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Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-FL), Is Interviewed About January 6th Select Committee Hearing; U.S. Inflation Hits 8.6 Percent In May, Highest Increase Since 1981. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired June 10, 2022 - 11:00   ET



KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. The January 6th Committee laying out its case that Donald Trump was at the center of a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results and also responsible for inciting the violent Capitol insurrection. Republican vice chair Congresswoman Liz Cheney, taking the lead last night really, declaring the Committee has evidence that Trump tried to subvert democracy to stay in power.


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): All Americans should keep in fact in mind, this fact, on the morning of January 6th, President Donald Trump's intention was to remain President of the United States, despite the lawful outcome of the 2020 election, and in violation of his constitutional obligation to relinquish power. Over multiple months, Donald Trump oversaw and coordinated a sophisticated seven-part plan to overturn the presidential election and prevent the transfer of presidential power.


BOLDUAN: There was also previously unseen video that they played last night, a testimony from Trump's top advisers, including former Attorney General Bill Barr, you see the video there. Barr saying in no uncertain terms that he told Trump that is rigged election claims that they were a lie, calling it quote, bullshit. The Committee also played video from the attack that even for people who lived it and even for people who's seen the playback from every angle, the video presentation was new and alarming. And there was also this photograph of a makeshift noose, and gallows with the Capitol dome in the background. It says quite a lot about that day. And the committee's first witness a U.S. Capitol police officer who described the siege as a war scene.

Let's start with CNN's Pamela Brown, who with the play -- with how everything played out last night.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- breach the line. We need backup. PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chilly new aerial footage showing the moment protesters breached the Capitol grounds on January 6th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So this is now defensively a riot.

BROWN (voice-over): The new video part of the debut primetime hearing of the Select Committee investigating the January 6th Capitol attack.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Donald Trump, the President of the United States, spurred a mob of domestic enemies of the Constitution to march down the Capitol and subvert American democracy.

BROWN (voice-over): The focus immediately turned into the role of the former president in those crucial hours when a mob descended on the Capitol.

CHENEY: President Trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack.

BROWN (voice-over): Committee Vice Chair Republican Representative Liz Cheney, referencing then President Trump's alleged seven-point plan to overturn the 2020 election, which a Committee source said included possibly replacing the acting Attorney General and instructing state officials to create false electors.

CROWD: Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence.

CHENEY: Aware of the rioters' chance to hang Mike Pence, the President responded with this sentiment, quote, maybe our supporters have the right idea. Mike Pence quote, deserves it.

BROWN (voice-over): Testimony also revealed that it was Pence who called Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley, demanding that the National Guard defend the Capitol. Milley had further testified that the president's chief of staff called him to say that they needed to dispel the narrative that the President was not taking action.

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF: We need to establish the narrative that, you know, that the President is still in charge and that things are steady or stable or words to that effect. I immediately interpreted that as politics, politics, politics. Red flag for me personally, no action, but I remember it distinctly.

BROWN (voice-over): Previously recorded testimony from former Attorney General Bill Barr disputed the President's claims of election fraud was played.

BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff which I told the President that was bullshit.

BROWN (voice-over): That was enough to convince the president's daughter and former adviser Ivanka Trump.

IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: I respect the Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he sent -- was saying.

BROWN (voice-over): The Committee says the President had been told by at least four close aides that he had lost reelection. Testimony played reveals that at least one individual associated with the campaign even told him he was likely to lose the election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point in the conversation, Matt Oczkowski, who is the lead data person was brought on and I remember he delivered to the president pretty blunt terms that he was going to lose.


BROWN (voice-over): The Committee placed a huge emphasis on the role of two extremist groups, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. Both groups were visibly present at the Capitol on January 6th and were some of the first to break into the Capitol building.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not allowed to say what's going to happen today. Because everyone just going to have to watch for themselves. But it's going to happen.

BROWN (voice-over): Never before seen security footage from inside Republican minority leader Kevin McCarthy's office shows the moment everyone fled the scene. A GOP source with direct knowledge says McCarthy staff was scared that day, and Cheney stated that McCarthy was calling Trump's allies and family members to try to persuade the president to intervene. Now McCarthy along with several other GOP members of Congress have refused to comply with requests to testify before the Committee.

REP. ELAINE LURIA (D-VA): He's patently embarrassing himself. If he were truly a leader within the House, he would want to get to the truth and the facts, which is where he started, but somewhere he went off the rails on that.

BROWN (voice-over): The Committee also claims that multiple Republican lawmakers, including Representative Scott Perry, were advocating for pardons and the final weeks of the administration. The Committee also heard live testimony from documentarian Nick Quested and Capitol Police Officer Caroline Edwards, who were both on the ground. Many Capitol officers were in attendance, watching on as one of their own testified about the extensive injuries she sustained as one of the first officers on the scene.

OFFICER CAROLINE EDWARDS, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: What I saw was just a war scene. I saw friends with blood all over their faces. I was slipping in people's blood.


BOLDUAN: Pamela Brown, thank you for that.

Joining me right now is one of the members of the January 6th Committee Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy. Congresswoman, thank you for being here.

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): Great to be with you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So if last night was the executive summary of what the hearings will be, the preview and the summation of what's going to be presented, was anything left out from that preview that people should know about?

MURPHY: The details that we will be able to fill in with subsequent hearings will be as compelling I believe, as last night's hearing was, you have to understand that we interviewed over 1,000 people we had tens of thousands of documents. We had video and all sorts of data and communications about what led up to and what happened on January 6th. So we are trying to tell the story using the most compelling pieces of information, and also using the very words of the Trump administration officials, the people in and around the President, as he sought to retain power and overturn the will of the American people with his desire to remain in office knowing that he didn't actually win the election.

BOLDUAN: Can you talk to me about the strategy and choice to have one of the two Republicans on the Committee present the core of the case at least that last night? I mean, was it intentional having Cheney laid out versus having Bennie Thompson or another Democrat on the Committee take the lead?

MURPHY: Mr. Thompson and Ms. Cheney are the co-chair and vice chair or they're co-chairs, the chair and vice chair of the Committee. And that's why the two of them laid out the opening statement, it was the bottom-line up-front synopsis of what the American people should expect across the next series of hearings. And then each of us on the Committee will be presenting different parts of this hearing.

I think it's really important, though, that we demonstrate that, as members of this Committee, we're not Democrats or Republicans. We're Americans. We are Americans who are concerned about our democracy. We are Americans who do not want to allow people to whitewash.

BOLDUAN: I absolutely hear you, Congresswoman, but you have to appreciate, of course, that it might amongst the people who are watching it, land differently coming from a Republican Liz Cheney than coming from a Democrat considering how divided the country is, yes?

MURPHY: Yes, the country is very divided. But what we're asking of our viewership is that they come to the table the way we are as Americans, not as Republicans or Democrats, and set that aside and understand that there's a larger picture here. There's more at stake than political parties win, it's about whether or not we can secure our democracy.

BOLDUAN: I'm going to play to that point, I'm going to play something that the chairman told my colleague Jake Tapper last night, let me play this.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Are there going to be witnesses that describe actual conversations between these extremist groups and anyone in Trump's orbit?


TAPPER: There will be?

THOMPSON: Yes. Obviously, you'll have to go through the hearings, but we have a number of witnesses who come forward that people have not talked to before that will document a lot of what was going on in the Trump orbit while all of this was occurring.



BOLDUAN: That Congresswoman goes further than I think many people thought, a direct connection to the violence to the foot soldiers who first breached. When are we going to learn those details?

MURPHY: You will in parts as the hearings proceed, what I think is key to take away from that is that, given all of the information that we have gathered, we have found that this was not a spontaneous event that happened on January 6th, that there were a lot of actors who were working together, searching for ways in which the former president could retain power despite the fact that the American people had voted otherwise. And we will be laying out that testimony, that evidence over the next couple of weeks.

BOLDUAN: Something else we heard last night was when Liz Cheney said that Scott Perry and multiple other Republican Congressmen sought pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the election. We did not know that. Is the public about -- is the public going to learn who those members are, explicitly?

MURPHY: The public, we'll learn who those members are. But I think I would point to a number of people who were in the Trump circle, some who understood that they were being asked to do something that was illegal and or unwilling to do so. Attorney General Barr, who said this was BS, and wouldn't participate. There were others who understood what they were being asked to do was not right. And they proceeded anyways. And the fact that some of these people sought, you know, pardons, I think demonstrates that they understood what they were doing was wrong.

BOLDUAN: But is it going to be clear what they were asking for pardons for?

MURPHY: I think you will hear the testimony that we were able to gather and the evidence that we were able to gather about what they were asking for here in the next few hearings.

BOLDUAN: What -- real quick, we heard a lot about Mike Pence and his critical role in carrying out his constitutional duty on that day. We've heard a lot about that already. But after the presentation last night, I was kind of left wondering if there was more that we don't know yet about what he was doing and who he was talking about, who's he was talking to before and after the attack. I know that that's going to be a focus of one of the hearings is kind of there's going to be like a -- I don't want to call it a Mike Pence hearing but is there more to learn?

MURPHY: There is more to learn about the intense pressure campaign that the Vice President was under and the work that he did to understand legally what it was and from a President's perspective, what his responsibility on January 6th was. I think it will be fascinating for folks, as they see the decision process that led up to January 6th.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, thank you for your time, I really appreciate it, much more to come.

Joining me now for more on this is CNN's chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. So Jeffrey, we're going to learn explicitly who these members of Congress are that were asking for pardons. And we're going to hear a lot more about Mike Pence and the pressure that came to him. What are your take from what you heard from Stephanie Murphy?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, why did they think they needed a pardon, for what? And did they recognize that they were participating in illegal activities? I mean, that's the only reason you need a pardon is if you're going to be criminally prosecuted for something. So that whole part of the story Congressman seeking pardons, was new to me, and I think new to most people, and there seems to be a great deal to unpack there.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. I do want to play another moment from the hearing that I know stuck with you. Trump tweets at 2:24 that day on January 6th, and at 2:24, there's video of a rioter reading that very tweet out loud to the masses on a bullhorn. Let's listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our Constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth.


BOLDUAN: Why was this an important element?

TOOBIN: Because the big issue I think, in this whole investigation is what if anything did Donald Trump do to encourage the violence? We knew, obviously, that he wanted Mike Pence to overturn the results of the election and I think the Committee did a very good job of showing that they -- he -- everyone around the President knew and the President knew that he'd lost but what about the violence? What did the President's role -- what was his role in encouraging, sponsoring, endorsing the violence?

And here you have a tweet in real time leading people to storm the Capitol. Now it's -- that's not conclusive proof that he knew what he was doing but if you sure proof in that direction and it brings together the White House and the Capitol riot in a way that I certainly had never seen before.


BOLDUAN: The presentation, I mean, it felt somewhat like an opening statement, maybe from a prosecutor laying out kind of the claim -- the case in a courtroom. Is that how you saw if that's what it was, is that the right approach because criminal charges is not what they're in charge of?

TOOBIN: No, although certainly the Justice Department is going to be watching here and deciding how their investigation will proceed. And I am certain they are going to learn things that will aid their investigation. But you know, I do think that the best part about the hearing, the reason why I thought it was an effective hearing, is you didn't hear a lot of congressmen bloviating, you didn't hear them saying Donald Trump was a terrible person. We know that the --

BOLDUAN: To the list of facts.

TOOBIN: Exactly. It was evidence, it was video, it was tweets, it was, you started to -- we're going to see e-mails and texts. That's why this Committee is valuable. We don't need to know that the Democrats don't know like Donald Trump. We know that already. You know, we know that there are political adversaries. But what we don't know is the full story of how this conspiracy and it does seem like a conspiracy to overturn a valid election took place and that's what we started to hear last night.

BOLDUAN: Interesting. It's good to see you, Jeff. Thanks for coming in. Really appreciate it.

Programming note everyone, the next insurrection hearing is set for Monday, CNN special coverage will begin at 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

Coming up still for us, inflation in the U.S. soaring to a new high, what's fueling it, and what it could mean for the Fed's next moves?



BOLDUAN: New data out today and it's not a great sign. Record gas prices drove inflation to a new high, 8.6 percent in May the fastest increase since 1981. All of this pushing markets down sharply at this hour. CNN's Matt Egan is tracking all this for us. He's here for us now. Matt, this government report, it's a basic measure of inflation. And it's telling you what?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, it's telling us that inflation is actually getting worse. I mean, I wish I were the bearer of better news on a Friday, summer Friday, but we thought inflation was going to stay relatively high. And instead, it got even higher. This is about four key areas food, fuel, rent, and used cars, all of them rising sharply.

Now we should note that inflation is a global problem. And it's one that's been made worse by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But that is little constellation of families whose paychecks are just not going as far as they used to. And, you know, it's not just about gas prices, we actually saw record year over year percentage increases for prices on everything from haircuts, and restaurant meals to chicken.

No wonder why we also just learned that consumer sentiment in June plunged to a record low. Lower than the peak of COVID, lower than the great financial crisis. And that's because people are obviously frustrated. And I think if you take a step back, this inflation report is concerning, because it suggests that the Fed is not winning its war on inflation, at least not yet.

And so that means the Fed is going to have to do more to slow the economy rather than tapping the brakes in the economy, they have to really hit the brakes hard, the harder they hit the brakes, the greater the chance of an accident. And so we're seeing these concerns play out in financial markets this morning. U.S. markets down sharply for the second day in a row. So that means that not only are prices going up, but 401(k)'s and retirement counts are going down.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Hard to find the good news in this.

EGAN: It is.

BOLDUAN: But important to see the measure of where we are in this moment though Matt. It's good to see you. Thank you so much.

EGAN: Thank you Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's get more perspective on this. Joining me right now is CNN global economics analyst Rana Foroohar. She's a global business columnist and associate editor for The Financial Times. It's great to see you, Rana. What's your big take from this latest measure and temperature check on inflation?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: So look, the news isn't good. Inflation is getting worse. What's more, if you look at where it is, as we just heard food, fuel, rent, cars, those are essentials. Those are not things that you can skimp on. What's interesting is, and this is, you know, the very tiny silver lining, inflation is not spreading to other areas. But I think that one reason for that is that people are really starting to look very carefully at what do I need, what do I not need, and they're just cutting back on non-essential purchases.

So this this is really, it puts people in a tough spot. I think you're going to see it play out in the summer travel numbers and tourism. And I think you're going to see folks really calculating down to the penny, you know, how far can I go with a tank of gas?

BOLDUAN: What does this mean, then for further moves by the Federal Reserve? Matt was kind of alluding to it.

FOROOHAR: Yes, it means that they're going to hike. I have no doubt that they're going to hike next week. The question is how much? Certainly, I think probably half a percentage point. You might see as much of three quarters of a percentage point if they want to really go at this hard. Those numbers are going to hurt.

We've already seen the dip in the stock market. I'm sure you're going to see more dips next week. You also may start to see the glimmerings of a housing market correction. Now, that's a double-edged sword, right, because people keep a lot of money in their homes. And so that may make them feel poorer. If rates go up, prices start to go down.

On the other hand, it will help younger people, poorer people, working people start to get on the housing ladder, so and, you know, it could start to bring some of that rent inflation down. So it's a balancing act here.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, at the very least does this clearly show that even though it was kind of talked about and wondered about last month, it shows that inflation has not peaked. And then does this tell you anything, does this give any indication of when it actually will?


FOROOHAR: Well, you know, there's so many factors we've heard about some of them war in Ukraine, huge, huge. I mean, you know, you've just taken it in a very large amount of the world's fair energy off the market. You know, you've taken a big producer of grain out of the global markets. That's not going away anytime soon. I don't see that abating really in probably the next year.

Now, what can the White House do and the White House by the way I do not believe caused this problem at all as some people would say. You know, this is this is something we've been coming out for years, even decades we've had a lot of easy money post financial crisis. We've had low rates. Some people think the Fed should have hiked a little sooner to give ourselves wiggle room, that didn't happen.

So it's going to be a while before things get back to normal. It's time to buckle in. It's not time to be, you know, playing the stock market or making any fast moves, I would say.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you Rana, thank you very much.

So CNN has also just learned that the Biden administration will announce today that the CDC is lifting its COVID testing requirements for travelers entering the United States. The change is going to go into effect at midnight on Sunday. A White House official telling CNN that the change in policy is happening after the CDC determined it will no longer -- it was no longer necessary, based on the science and the data. This also comes of course, months after the mask requirements was dropped and after intense lobbying from the airline industry.

Coming up for us, the January 6th Committee's first witness was a U.S. Capitol Police Officer describing the vicious attacks from the rioters on the day of the insurrection. Next, I'm going to speak with one of the over 140 officers injured while defending the Capitol. We'll be right back.