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263,000 Jobs Added In November, Jobless Rate Holds At 3.7 Percent; CNN Poll: Warnock Holds Narrow Edge Over Walker In GA Runoff; Judge Orders Fmr. Trump WH Lawyers To Testify In Criminal Probe. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 02, 2022 - 11:00   ET



KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you were listening to the press right there. Thanks for -- thanks for joining us, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. That was President Biden speaking at the White House after signing into law, the effort, averting a national rail strike. His comments also, of course, coming on the heels of the latest jobs report, which you commented on there, which came in much hotter than expected, defying aggressive action from the Federal Reserve to cool the economy.

The report shows that U.S. employers added 263,000 jobs in November. Analysts had expected a gain of 200,000 jobs. The unemployment rate held steady at 3.7 percent. Stocks taking a look at this in face of this news, stocks are down this morning. The robust jobs report stoking concern as well of what this means for the Fed's rate hikes and how long the battle against inflation is going to last.

So let me get over to Christine Romans, who has a breakdown of the numbers. We heard two things from the President, right? We heard -- we have averted a disaster, Christine. But we also, we've got an economy moving in the right direction is what he says he sees in this report. What do you see?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a strong labor market. Resilience, I think is the word of the week in terms of all the numbers that we have seen. Let's take a look at these numbers, 263,000 jobs added, you mentioned, 3.7 percent is the unemployment rate. You look at that unemployment rate. It's in this band of 3.5 to 3.7 percent that we've seen for months, that's near a 50 year low. And that's even after all of those Fed interest rate hikes. So the unemployment rate veered down that line, very, very important to watch here.

When you look at the jobs added month by month, you can see 263,000 was the weakest we've seen in about 18 months. You go back to November 2021, so this is a far cry from a year ago, when we had more than 600,000. That was a roaring red hot job market. So you've seen it cooled down a little bit since then. But in bigger perspective, 4.3 million jobs added so far this year, you heard the President there just talking about how 10.5 million added so far and his presidency the most ever, for that kind of period of time. Just look back to pre-pandemic levels. These were annual jobs added. This already even a slightly cooling job market is still far and away better than all that. We saw it really led by leisure and hospitality, which I think is interesting, Kate, because one thing we know about this economy, people complain about inflation. They say they feel bad about the economy, but they are still spending, they want experiences, they want to go out to dinner, they want to go to Disney, they want to get a plane ticket.

So we're hearing people say there's malaise about the economy, but in their actions, we're seeing something else. And I think that's one of the reasons why you've seen leisure and hospitality add so many jobs here. Just a fascinating moment I think, Kate, in the American economy. And I think the word of the week is still resilience.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, yes, but economy, I mean, I'm just going to take that from you and ride it all the way. Because you're absolutely right. It's the only way to sum up. Fascinating, complicated and complex situation we find, the country finds itself in. Christine, thank you so much.

Joining me now for some more perspective on this Nela Richardson, she's the Chief Economist for the payroll services provider, ADP. It's great to have you here. So the new mantra, along with the yes but is one headline, one report does not tell the whole story of this confusing economy. The job markets still remaining strong, says what to you, what do you see here?

NELA RICHARDSON, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ADP: First of all, it's great to be here. And secondly, I think, really, it's all about wages. The Federal Reserve chairman told us that as much as that this week when he said that the keys to inflation was in wages, wage growth was really strong in this report. The stock market recognizes that the Fed will still have to hike rates in order to get this really hot labor market to cool off a bit. But I think what we're seeing is some encouragement among investors at least that the economy is still in solid footing. And there's hope that a softer landing, soft dish landing can be achieved without too much of a hardship on the labor market.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and on wages, you know, so wage growth, still pretty hot. I saw one analyst call wage growth, the Feds wage problem is that how everyone could start -- should start really kind of saying this?

RICHARDSON: It is a wage problem for the Fed because the reality for many workers is wages aren't keeping up with inflation. So even though we've seen wages skyrocket upward in our data, people aren't feeling that on the street, they're not feeling that when they go to the grocery store, so it's like a wage increase with no reward for the Federal Reserve. And their job basically, is to make sure that it doesn't get too out of control, and in a way that will keep pushing up inflation instead of bringing it back down.

BOLDUAN: Nela, does this confirm that the Fed is going to need to be fighting inflation for much longer than many currently you've kind of expected? RICHARDSON: You know, the Fed is going to have to be fighting inflation for longer than expected to. They thought originally that inflation would be transitory, but it's moved from goods to the very heart of what Christine was saying to services. When you look at this jobs report, the service sector is the one that really is pushing the labor market forward. It's the return of healthcare hiring, the return of and continuation of leisure and hospitality to sectors that were hard hit by the pandemic, but where we're seeing strong demand from firms for hiring, and that's where we've seen the strongest wage increases as well.


BOLDUAN: I spoke yesterday to lead economist for the Chamber of Commerce about kind of this complicated reality that we're looking at, people feel bad about the economy, but they feel OK about their own personal situation, at least right now. I'm going to play for you what he thinks the impact of this secondhand pessimism will be longer term.


CURTIS DUBAY, CHIEF ECONOMIST, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: What I think it means is that if we do have a recession, maybe won't be as severe as otherwise would be. Or maybe it keeps us out of the recession, we just have a slowdown, and we're able to pick back up once inflation cools, and hopefully in late 2023.


BOLDUAN: It's a little -- it's getting at where you were kind of talking about off the top. But what do you think of that?

RICHARDSON: You know, it's all about consumer expectations. If consumers feel like inflation is going to be higher, and the economy is slowing, they're going to behave in a way eventually. And when the economy slows and inflation goes up, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So what the Fed really needs to do is to get inflation under control. Before this pessimism about the economy becomes entrenched, and people start pulling back on their spending and expecting higher prices in the future. That's what they're trying to do. And so that's why we've seen really aggressive rate hikes, we won't likely see that kind of aggression going forward. They'll probably slow down the pace of hikes, but those hikes are going to be with us a while longer.

BOLDUAN: Yes, Nela, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

RICHARDSON: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Really appreciate it.

I want to going to go now to Qatar where the U.S. Men's National Team is gearing up for tomorrow's huge World Cup match with the Netherlands. CNN's Don Riddell, the place where everyone wants to be right now, live at the team's training facility. Don, what are you seeing there? What are you hearing there? How are they preparing for this big moment? DON RIDDELL, CNN HOST, WORLD SPORT: Well, the training session has just got underway, of course, huge match tomorrow. It's the first knockout game of the knockout stage. And the big news is that Christian Pulisic is out here training. Of course, Captain America as he is lovingly known, is the man responsible for getting the Americans to this stage of the tournament. He put his body on the line to score against Iran in the final group game.

Many of us know what happened after that. He was injured in that process. He was taken to hospital, diagnosed with a pelvic contusion. A lot of people have been asking what exactly that means, what exactly happened to him. The good news is, he is back on the training field. The team is saying that they're going to assess how he does here. But the mood really for the last few days has been that they are expecting him to play. And they certainly are hoping that he will play given that the American team has only scored two goals in the tournament so far, and he has been involved in both of them.

Huge clash against the Netherlands, they are one of the world's top football teams ranked world number eight, they're considered one of the best teams never to have won the World Cup. And the Netherlands are going to be favorites. But the way that the American team has acquitted themselves so far, playing very well against England, who are one of the tournament favorites. The game against Iran was so tough both on and off the field. This young team is doing very, very well. And you must consider that 25 of the 26 players in this squad had no World Cup experience before they got here because the Americans didn't qualify four years ago.

And now here they are. And they seem to be taking to the challenge, like ducks to water. So it's all set to be an absolutely compelling, fascinating game tomorrow. And of course, because it's happening on a weekend, I think there'll be an absolutely massive television audience in the states tuning in to see how this American team does.

BOLDUAN: I'm listening to you, Don, but I was just really looking and trying to watch the practice go on behind you. It's just such a cool window. And to your reporting always has been riveted, my friend. I'm not kidding. But it's really cool that you were able to get in there to see this in this moment. Thanks for bringing it to us really appreciate it.

All right, we'll have much more in that little later in the show. But also this is the final day of early voting in Georgia's runoff Senate race and former President Barack Obama hitting the trail with a message for voters.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Why does this matter? What's the difference between 50 and 51? The answer is a lack.



BOLDUAN: Where the race stands, next.


BOLDUAN: It is the final day for early voting in Georgia's Senate runoff election. Nearly 1.5 million people have already cast their ballots and a new CNN poll out this morning is giving us a look at where the race could stand. CNN's Eva McKend live in Atlanta forest once again. Eva, what are you seeing in this poll?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, good morning to you, Kate. Yes, early voting well underway here in Atlanta. I'm learning from folks here about a 45-minute wait to get through this line. According to our new CNN poll, Senator Warnock has a narrow lead over Herschel Walker, Warnock at 52 percent, Walker at 48 percent. Our poll also revealing that partisans on both sides are deeply entrenched, that means if you are a Democrat, you're likely to be firmly team Warnock. If you are Republican, you are likely to be firmly Team Walker.


The perhaps most interesting part of our poll though are the independents. They are breaking for Warnock, 61 percent to 36 percent. Independents are only 17 percent of the likely voters. But really, they are coveted voters because they are persuadable. And those are the voters that both sides really are working overtime to capture. Kate?

BOLDUAN: That's absolutely right, Eva, such important perspective on that. What are you learning about who these early voters are, all of these people we've seen behind you now for days?

MCKEND: Yes, so what's been really interesting to watch is that black Georgians, they make up 33 percent of the early voters that we have seen so far. And that is a potentially troubling sign for Republicans because we know that the black voters, by and large show up for Democrats in a big way. Senator Warnock captured 90 percent of the black vote in Georgia during the general election. That being said, while Democrats for the past several weeks have put a lot of emphasis on the early vote, Senator Warnock out all weekend emphasizing it Herschel Walker off the trail when early voting began. We know that Republicans might be inclined to vote on Election Day, but a huge, huge turnout among black voters during this early period, Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, final day of early voting underway. It's great to see you, Eva as always, thank you.

So one of former President Donald Trump's lead White House attorneys is now back in court. Pat Cipollone was seen entering the U.S. District courthouse this morning. This follows a federal judge's order to give additional grand jury testimony in the DOJ's investigation over attempts to overturn the 2020 election. Katelyn Polantz has the details for us. She joins us now. Katelyn, what do you learn about this?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Kate, what we're learning is that this is going to be a big day for Donald Trump and for special counsel Jack Smith leading this investigation around January 6th. So the grand jury is very likely to hear more about Trump and his White House leading up to January 6th, after the election, all of those efforts to put pressure on Mike Pence and potentially block Congress from certifying the presidency of Joe Biden.

And Cipollone really is the top figure here that Smith had wanted the grand jury to hear from. He had been in once, there were certain things Trump's team came into court and tried to block him from answering, potentially things like legal advice he was giving to the president direct conversations he would have had with the president at that time. Trump's approach there failed in court. We know that we were able to report that yesterday. And now there you see Pat Cipollone going into the Grand Jury today. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Also Katelyn, there's a big move that's happening in the back and forth of this over the special master reviewing the documents taken from Mar-a-Lago, what's happening?

POLANTZ: That's right. Well, there was another big decision on that front, the 11th Circuit, a federal appeals court basically said the court can't get involved in this ongoing government investigation being done by the Justice Department and also Special Counsel Jack Smith. Now, in that what that's going to mean is that the government investigation around those documents being kept at Mar-a-Lago after the Trump presidency, it may be able to rev back into gear pretty quickly. But there are still some things procedurally that could happen, Donald Trump does have a chance to appeal that ruling. He has a couple of days. But as of December 8th, if he's not able to stop getting rid of this special master, that means that the Justice Department will have unfettered access to all of those documents found around classified materials that were being kept at Mar-a-Lago that were taken out of the beach club in August. And that means they're going to move forward with the investigation, have a lot of access to evidence that right now they've been slowed down around. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Katelyn, thanks for that.

Joining me now for more on this because there's a lot to it, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers. Jennifer, I'm glad you're here. Let's -- , let's start on the former Trump White House attorneys being ordered back to a grand jury. If executive privilege and attorney-client privilege are now off the table, not protections that they can apply, if you will, against testifying in this, what more could these witnesses speak to?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Kate, what they had refused to speak to before was the actual details of the conversations that they were having. So Pat Cipollone was in there trying to counter what was happening between Trump and other lawyers like Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, who were telling him that this coup attempt could work. Cipollone was pushing back on that and it was reported previously that he had said, not only was that plan unlawful, but that Trump could criminally be charged for it at some point. Now the grand jury is going to get to hear the details of those conversations, which is really important because Trump's knowledge and intent is the key issue as to whether he can be charged here and what he knew and what Cipollone particularly told him is really important in that assessment.


BOLDUAN: And then on this big decision halting the special master in the classified documents investigation, how quickly do you think this now kind of like launches, investigators, how quickly can they move? What does this do to timing?

RODGERS: Well, of course, they've already been working on their investigation, but they've been held up by not being able to use most of the documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago. So I think we're probably still a couple of weeks out, I do think that Trump will appeal that has been his MO the entire time to try to kick the can down the road as much as possible. So we're probably a couple of weeks away from, you know, the final on that. But if there's no state issued, in other words, if he can't get the 11th Circuit as a whole or the Supreme Court to issue a stay, which I don't think he'll be able to do, then the documents will go over regardless.

So in about a week, they'll be able to have everything they need in hand, and move forward. So I would say, you know, depending on where the rest of their investigation is, particularly the obstruction piece, which may be a little bit behind, because they'll still be talking to witnesses on that likely. I think we're probably just a few weeks away from charging decisions.

BOLDUAN: Wow. All right, it's great to see you, Jennifer, thank you so much.

I want to turn now to our top story here. New numbers out, new report out this morning showing the economy added 263,000 jobs in November, the big the big jobs report out this morning, that is more than analysts expected. It also defies the aggressive action from the Federal Reserve to cool the economy, the unemployment rate held steady at 3.7 percent.

Joining me now for another take in reaction to this from the White House is Labor Secretary Marty Walsh. Secretary, thanks for coming in. We just saw you at the top of the hour standing with the President, as he signed that rail deal into law. I want to get to that in a second. But first this jobs report, it's not the Goldilocks, if you will, the not too hot, the not too cold report that a lot of people were hoping for ahead of this, it's still pretty hot. What do you see here?

MARTY WALSH, LABOR SECRETARY: Well, it's, you know, in a lot of ways, when you dive into the numbers is a good consistent job report, I think there's a couple areas that jumped out that are really good. When you think about pre pandemic levels, almost every industry has fully recovered. Retail, I mean, restaurant and hospitality wasn't. In this particular job report, it has good numbers for the hospitality, and restaurant industries as people, I think about 90,000 jobs. And then when you look at the education sector, the private education sector, it's also very good for that in manufacturing about 14,000. So we're seeing areas that quite haven't fully come back, pre pandemic, seeing the biggest gains in this report. And we're also seeing opportunities for nearly lows in unemployment numbers across the board. The black unemployment number is 5.7 percent, the Hispanic unemployment 3.9 percent, the Asian 2.7 percent.

And the overall unemployment rate in the country is 3.7 percent. What it tells, what that number tells me is we still have work to do, particularly in the black community, when it comes to that unemployment number.

BOLDUAN: Labor force participation, that rate ticked down. That's not good news when 1.5, there was 1.5 jobs for every job seeker. This is directly in I know, in your purview, and focus. How much does that worry you?

WALSH: Well, you know, it's been it's been a bit of a concern since for a little bit now. And I think that, obviously, we're still keeping in context of the pandemic, a lot of people left the job market due to the pandemic. We lost a lot of lives during the pandemic. So some of those jobs won't be replaced, I know that's not the number we're talking about right now. But what we have to do now, we're going into the New Year is really focusing even more intentionally on apprenticeships, workforce development, job training, working with companies.

I think there's a lot of workers out there that not quite sure what they want to do yet. They haven't reentered the job market. But we want to be able to give them a launching pad into the job market through job training, workforce development. And I spent a fair amount of time talking to companies around America and asking what their needs are, and they're very interested in working with the Department of Labor and local governments to get folks back into the job market.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Let's talk about the rail deal now signed into law. You were you were running point on these negotiations. It is clear that the final deal is not what union workers or a lot of Democrats wanted. The president described it as a necessity to avert disaster. How do you describe this deal?

WALSH: Well, with the President said today is actually accurate, but I'll back up if the President didn't intervene in the beginning these negotiations was stalled and weren't going anywhere and the union's asked the President and asked me to put together presidential emergency board. The President did that because the negotiations were stopped. The companies weren't negotiating with the unions and they weren't able to move forward here.

The PEB was it was put in place. And between the PEB and the negotiations in my office, we're able to make sure that a 24 percent increase over five years preserve healthcare split at 85-15, meaning the employer will pay 85 percent, the employee will pay 15 percent. The companies were looking for some difference there. They will also able to get work rules conditions some changes in the contract and then three unpaid days. Now there's still work to be done obviously and the President made it very clear today, he believes every American should have paid sick leave. And that's something that we have to do now.


And I intend on working, hopefully, with these companies to make them understand. I think they understand the magnitude of this. But these workers work hard. I mean, these workers that work on the rails have been understaffed for a long time. There's also an issue and staffing. But, you know, this was -- a lot came together here and at this particular moment in time, you know, I think the President did the right thing here. By getting this through Congress, keeping our economy moving forward, the American people don't need any other devastation our economy, and our economy can't take the pressures that we're already dealing with inflationary pressures and every other pressure that comes with it.

BOLDUAN: Mr. Secretary, at least some rail workers, they still say they feel burned today about this. One of them was on CNN this morning. Let me play for you what he had to say.

WALSH: OK, sure.


REECE MURTAGH, ROADWAY MECHANIC & LOCAL UNION LODGE CHAIRMAN: We have a pro labor president who loves to, you know, pat himself on the back for that. And when the going got tough, he turned his back on the people he's supposed to be looking out for.


BOLDUAN: What do you say to him?

WALSH: Well, it's actually not the case. If that member followed the current -- the vote yesterday in the Senate, they would have seen that the Senate didn't vote to put sick time in, the House did. And if the Senate voted to put sick time, and --

BOLDUAN: Yes, he thought that -- he saw that vote in the House as a distraction, because it wasn't going to get anywhere.

WALSH: Well, you can't decide what's right and what's wrong. I mean, the reality situation is the Congress voted and passed health care, sick time in there and the Senate didn't. And I would ask that member to go back and talk to the 52 senators that didn't vote for healthcare and ask them why they didn't vote for healthcare. I think that's his -- that's where his concern should be.

BOLDUAN: Secretary Walsh, thank you for coming in.

WALSH: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Kanye West suspended from Twitter overnight and making clear his hate speech is not ending. The CEO of the Anti-Defamation League is here, next.