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Biden Lawyers Find Another Batch Of Classified Docs At Delaware Home; House Speaker Kevin McCarthy Holds First News Conference; McCarthy: Congress Must Investigate Biden Over Classified Docs. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 12, 2023 - 11:00   ET



KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. We are going to begin with breaking news. The White House just confirming details of another batch of classified government documents, this time at President Biden's home in Wilmington, Delaware.

We're also just learning that Attorney General Merrick Garland will be making a statement at 1:15 p.m. Eastern time at the Justice Department. The Justice Department just putting out a press release a short time ago announcing that. We are working on details of what exactly that announcement from the Attorney General could include.

Let's start with Paula Reid, who has been gathering much more on all of these for us. She's joining me now from Washington. Paula, what are you hearing now?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Kate, here is what we know. The White House has just released a statement revealing that additional government documents with classified markings have been found at President Biden's Wilmington home.

And in a statement, they described specifically where these were found, two different locations. They said, "All but one of these documents were found in a storage space in President Biden's Wilmington residence garage. One document consisting of one page was discovered among stored materials in an adjacent room."

So what we have, we take a step back, we have we know 10 pages of classified documents located in a former office here in Washington, D.C. back on November 2. We know some of those materials were top secret. They covered things like Iran, the United Kingdom and Ukraine.

Now we're told that that information, that discovery was a pretty close hold, but it spurred Biden advisers to search other locations. And here, finding in two different locations additional documents with classified markings. We are told, though, that he had a Rehoboth home that has been searched, and no documents have been found there.

But the big question, one of many big questions is, well, is this it? Were there any other locations that have been searched? Are there potentially any other documents out there? We also don't know, Kate, with these classified documents, what was in them? How many specifically, were there?

So right now, the next thing that's likely to happen is the Attorney General, he is making a statement at 1:15. What will he say? We don't know. Of course, it's possible that he could tap a special counsel to take over this matter. It's also possible that he could announce an intermediate step.

We know he has tapped the U.S. attorney in Chicago to review that initial batch of documents found here in D.C. We were told by our sources that that review was completed, they didn't expect to take any additional investigative steps.

So it's possible that he will announce an extension of that review. At this point, we don't know. But certainly, all eyes on the Attorney General this afternoon, and what he does with this new information.

BOLDUAN: That's very true. All right, Paula, we're going to get back to you in just one second.

Jeremy Diamond is also joining us. He's live at the White House. Jeremy, we just heard President Biden he faced with some questions, answered some questions about this latest batch. Talked me through what you heard from the President because he did look like he was looking down at prepared -- at a prepared statement at times.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he was certainly trying to read at points from a prepared statement that was very similar to both what he said in Mexico City a couple of days ago when that initial batch of documents was discovered. And also to the new statement today from the White House Special Counsel, Richard Sauber, regarding these second documents.

I want us to just listen to what the President said, talking about some of these documents being discovered in the garage of his Wilmington, Delaware home.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As I said earlier this week, people know I take classified documents of classified material seriously. I also said we're cooperating fully and completely with the Justice Department's review. As part of that process, my lawyer has reviewed other places where documents in my -- from my time as vice president were stored, and they finished the review last night.

They discovered a small number of documents of classified markings in storage areas, and file cabinets in my home, in my personal library. This was done in the case of the Biden Penn -- this was done in the case of the Biden Penn Center. The Department of Justice was immediately -- as was done, the Department of Justice was immediately notified.


DIAMOND: And it's not exactly clear what the security of some of these spaces where the documents were found. The statement from the White House Special Counsel Richard Sauber says that all but one of the documents in this second batch was found in a, quote, storage space in the President's Wilmington residents garage and saying that another document was discovered amongst stored materials in an adjacent room.

The President did point out that his garage is a locked garage. That was a point he made. Of course, that doesn't mean that it's an appropriate place for classified documents to be held. But some point that the President clearly wanted to make here.

What we still don't know though, Kate -- and this again, this story is so much about the questions that remain unanswered, even as the White House is attempting to provide some additional clarity today is when the searches were conducted. They say that this review was a finish, was completed, the review of these documents that were found was completed last night.


But when exactly did these searches occur? Because we know that that initial search happened more than two months ago on November 2 of that Penn Biden center. So did they immediately go and start searching those homes? Did that happen only more recently? Those are some of the questions that we still need answers to.

And again, notably, Kate, this comes on a day where the President was coming out to try and tout some good economic news. And instead, of course, he's faced with a smattering of questions about this very serious issue. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, having to juggle it all and walk and chew gum at the same time, because this is what this White House is facing at this moment. Jeremy, stick with me, please. Paula Reid is back with us. And I also want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

First Jennifer, we've heard the great reporting from both Paula and Jeremy about what we know about the documents, what we don't know about the documents, and also what the administration is saying, what is your reaction to this latest batch in the latest news we're getting in?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's not great, Kate, I mean, they had already tapped the U.S. attorney from Chicago to decide as an initial step whether an investigation should be opened. And it seems to me and what we've had reported before today's news, that that was likely to -- not likely to result in the opening of an investigation.

But these are new facts, you know, you know have another location where classified documents were found. One of them maybe not even in a locked container. So I think probably, you know, I don't know what Biden will -- what Garland will do.

But he may go back to the U.S. attorney in Chicago and ask him to review these facts and knew and see if whatever recommendation he made about how to proceed whether an investigation should follow, whether Special Counsel should be appointed, whether those conclusions changed based on what we've just learned.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And Jeremy, I'm seeing some new reporting from our colleague, MJ Lee, there's a clarification on kind of -- I don't know if we call it the chain of custody of who was notified when about what these documents were found.

DIAMOND: Yes. In this new statement, they say that as in the previous case, they immediately notified the Department of Justice and provided the documents. In that initial statement, it said that they had notified the National Archives initially, a person familiar with the matter clarifying that that first statement is indeed true.

They notified the National Archives first and handed over the documents to them. But, of course, now we know that things have changed. The Department of Justice is conducting this sort of preliminary investigation, this review of this situation. And so, they went directly to the Department of Justice in this case, providing them the documents.

And that is one of the things that White House officials want to make clear is that they are being fully cooperative with the Department of Justice in this case. Of course, the White House hopes that that is where this ends. This is a White House that very much does not want to see a special counsel appointed into this matter.

We do know, of course, that in previous cases, whenever a special counsel is appointed, you'd never really know where they are ultimately going to end up with their investigation. They can start an investigation, it couldn't become fairly open ended and ended up in a completely different place.

So that is certainly a scenario that this White House wants to avoid. But it is notable that they put out this statement today, clarifying the situation with the second batch of documents. Clearly, they were feeling the public pressure of the revelation of these documents, which was reported yesterday by CNN as well as other outlets.

But they wanted to -- you know, there are still a number of questions that they are not answering, including why it took so long for us to even find out about this. You know, we learned about this initially through reporting. The White House then confirm that they found this first batch of documents reporting revealed that a second batch was found, now they are again confirming here.

So hopefully, for the White House, they are hoping that this puts a bow on it. But again, we've seen before where -- when we think that they have addressed questions about all documents being found. It's not the case. So we'll see whether or not there's more still to unravel here.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's a good point. And Paula, well, you well note in the announcement of the press conference or the announcement that the Attorney General is going to be making this afternoon. They don't give a topic. Is that standard for the Attorney General kind of peel back the curtain a little bit because, of course, you see the -- people will see this White House statement coming out that an announcement of the Attorney General coming to speak and a lot of people are wondering, is this to announce a special counsel which we do not have the reporting on that yet?

REID: Yes, it is certainly standard for the Justice Department to release as few details as possible, particularly about politically sensitive matters like this. We don't know if he is going to announce a special counsel or just address this matter generally, expand potentially the original review. It's unclear at this point.

But there are some challenges if you wanted to appoint a special counsel. The list of people who would be qualified to do this is quite short and of that list. The number of people who would want that assignment particularly looking at what has happened to previous special counsels in this current political climate is very, very short.

But even if you can find someone, Kate, we know from our reporting that Special Counsel Jack Smith, he already has many of the key people that you would need for an investigation like this detail to his office. They're already looking for office space.


He has a lot of the resources and the personnel that this potential possible special counsel would need. So this is not an easy decision. It's never easy to find a special counsel. But these facts and the current situation with someone else already appointed, who has so many of the resources, incredibly complicated. It's going to be fascinating to see what Garland shares with us today.

BOLDUAN: Jen, do -- and I promise you I will not hold you to this when we do hear what the Attorney General has to say. But we did hear from Alberto Gonzales, a former Attorney General during the Bush administration, of course this morning, and he said that he thinks, yes, the Special Counsel should be appointed.

What do you think -- do you think a special counsel will be appointed? Just knowing the universe of information that is out there, the political pressure that has now being applied? What do you think?

RODGERS: It's really hard to say, Kate. I will say that the Special Counsel regulations say that only where a criminal investigation into an individual or a situation is warranted, should a special counsel be appointed. So if you take that literally and the U.S. Attorney in Chicago decides that no full blown investigation is warranted, then a special counsel should not be appointed.

That said, Merrick Garland is very cautious and conservative on these matters. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him appoint a special counsel, although I do think he would want to go back to the U.S. Attorney in Chicago first to see if these facts changed his view or kind of where that stands before considering a special counsel. Because as Paula points out, it is a big lift.

BOLDUAN: You know, guys, thank you so much. I really appreciate it, guys. We're now going to actually jump over to Capitol Hill. We are going to jump in Kevin McCarthy is now holding his first news conference since becoming speaker of the House. Let's listen.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, what I find is the voters have elected George Santos. If there's a concern, he will go through ethics. If there is something that is found, he will be dealt with in that manner. But they have a voice in this process.

Yes. Yes, ma'am. Yes.


MCCARTHY: I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't even mention them the other thing we did. Pass the very bipartisan bill with 146 Democrats joining with us to create a new Select Committee on China, that Congressman Gallagher will chair. And I've met with leader Hakeem on this, this will be -- Hakeem Jeffries -- this will be a very bipartisan committee.

Because I think it's very important. A number of reasons why I believe we have lost jobs to China or lend to intellectual property, because many times we don't speak with one voice from America. What I am trying to accomplish is get members on both sides of the aisle from all different perspectives, not just from the militarily, from financial, from agriculture and others to bring those jobs back to America, to make sure China's not with inside America buying our farmland and others. Get a level playing field for competition.

We watched during COVID For our medical supplies them controlling 50 percent of the market. We watched from our medical pills and others what they control. This is something that is very not just disturbing to me, but for the future of America. I would say in this first five days is probably one of the most powerful things that we passed in a very bipartisan way a step forward. I would hope the Senate would do it as well, and that we can speak with one voice as we move forward to bring the jobs back to the America.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, a lot of reporting, and a lot of rumors about any attendance side deals --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- (INAUDIBLE) To get his membership. Do the American people deserve to know all the promises you might have made to get --

MCCARTHY: Yes, they deserve to know and the thing that you should look at is the commitment to America. There is not a side deal to anything. You watch the rules package, exactly the same rules package we had at January 1. What does it do? The only change within that is make the vacate the chair from five to one.

The other thing that we did, and I'm glad you keep bringing this up, because it reminds me of other things we accomplished. We watched what is happening right now with the President of the United States, not once but now we're finding in two different locations, classified information just out there in the open.

It just goes to prove -- and we're finding out now after being sworn in, that this was discovered before the election. Another faux pas (ph) by the Biden administration, but treating law differently based upon your political beliefs. Treats one President Trump one way but treats President Biden a whole different way. That's why we had to provide a new entity from our church style to look after the weaponization of what's going on, that you want to equal playing of the law to all Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker -- I'm sorry, sorry, let him finish.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you this matter regarding the classified documents found in President Biden's home going before that committee?

MCCARTHY: I see it could go from that committee or others, but I think Congress has to investigate this. Here's an individual that's been in office for more than 40 years. Here's an individual that sat on 60 minutes that was so concerned about President Trump's documents locked in behind and now we find it just as a vice president keeping it for years out in the open in different locations.

I do not think any American believes that justice should not be equal to all. And we found from this administration, what happened before every single election, whatever comes out that they utilize to try to falsify it, they try to have different standards for their own beliefs, that doesn't work in America.

Yes, sir?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you trust someone who has admitted to lying about major aspects of his past, could be facing fraud charges from Brazil to have access to top secret information --

MCCARTHY: I don't see any way that he's going to have top secret data. You're referring to George Santos. He's got a long way to go to earn trust. But the one thing I do know is you apply the Constitution equal to all Americans. The voters of his district have elected him.

He is seated. He is part of the Republican Conference. There are concerns with it, so he will go before ethics. If anything is found to be have wrong, he will be held accountable exactly as anybody else in this body would be. That is the fair way to handle anything ago. And that's how I deal with any single issue that ever comes forward.

Yes, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see a difference in that former President Trump denied repeated requests for all of his classified documents for more than a year and President Biden's lawyers turned in documents after finding them?

MCCARTHY: No, because from one standpoint, they knew the documents were there, they actually asked President Trump to put another lock on so they were locked. You look at President Biden. He wasn't president. He was vice president. He held these in different locations right out in the open.

He criticized President Trump. Did he utilize the Justice Department to raid President Trump? Do you think that was right? They knew this has happened to President Biden before the election, but they kept it a secret from the American public.

He goes on 60 minutes criticizes President Trump even knowing what he has done and he wasn't president at the time. Now we find another location that it's at. But he refused to answer, his press secretary won't answer the questions?

You watched them leak photos is sitting out files of President Trump. Where's the photos of President Biden's documents? Where are those photos at? He knowingly knew this happened going into election, going into interviews. This is what makes America not trust their government.

You cannot have one form of law because somebody philosophically has a different opinion you -- and you can't use the Justice Department to go after people that are politically different as well. It has to be equal across and what I'm finding what's happened with President Biden time and again.

You go from a laptop, saying it not only that it wasn't true, but utilizing your own friends to go into companies to tell them to say the same thing, to try to knock down information, to try to make sure the New York Post story couldn't be printed. You should be offended by that. You are of the press. You should be allowed to write even when you knew it was true. So, yes sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) pursue entitlement reform this Congress? And if so, would you be open to including higher taxes as part of those reforms?

MCCARTHY: Look, the one thing I know I've watched when Republicans were in power, those eight years discretionary spending increased zero. I watched Democrat takes over for four years, they increased it by 30 percent. They went from 4 trillion to 7 trillion. I watched the $31 trillion dollar debt. I watched inflation grow under their fiscal policies.

We've got to get our House in order. So the one thing I will tell you as Republicans, we will always protect Medicare and Social Security. We will protect that for the next generation going forward. But we are going to scrutinize every single dollar spent. It's the right it's a hard-working taxpayer that actually pays it and we want to make sure it's spent wisely and not the way the Democrats have spent.

Yes, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want ask -- so there's been some interest among some of your rank and file Republicans to possibly introduce a resolution to expunge one of former President Trump's impeachment of possibly vote. What do you think of that? Is that something that you'd be supportive of?

MCCARTHY: I'd have to look. When you look at -- when you find that the final information that the Russia document was all lie, when you watch one went through, I could understand why members would want to bring that forward.

Our first priority is get our economy back on track, secure our borders, make our streets safe again, give parents the opportunity to have a say in their kids' education, and actually hold government accountable, but I understand why individual would want to do it. We'd look at it.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, a bunch of Republicans, about 20 of them last Congress called on Speaker Pelosi at the time to release the DOJ -- Capitol health security footage of all things that happened on that day. Is that something that you'd be interested in doing? Congressman Gaetz said that -- he said that you would be willing to do that. Is that --

MCCARTHY: Yes, I think the public should see what has happened on day. I've watched what Nancy Pelosi did, where she politicized it. Where, for the first time in the history as a speaker, not allowing the minority to appoint to a committee, to pick and choose. We watched the politicization of this.

I think the American public should we actually see all what happened instead of a report that's written for political basis. And I think the answer -- we're looking through that. I want to be very thoughtful about it. But yes, I'm engaged to do that.

Yes, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, sir. On the debt ceiling, can you guarantee that Republicans will provide what's necessary to raise the debt ceiling and avoid --

MCCARTHY: Look, we want to make sure -- we don't want to put any fiscal problems to our economy, and we won't, but we -- but were fiscal problems would be continuing to do business as usual. I remembered when Trump was president and Nancy Pelosi was speaker, they became a debt ceiling agreement. And it was a cap agreement for two years, to cap the spending and make those decisions.

This is something that people have utilized. But I asked all of you and all Americans, if you have a child, and you give them a credit card, and they spend the limit, so you increase the limit again, and again and again, when does it end? We've got to change the way we are spending money wastefully in this country. And we're going to make sure that happens. It's a hard-working taxpayers do.

Paul, how are you? It's good to see you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Cornyn seemed a little bit dismissive of some of the House Republican plans to Jake's (INAUDIBLE) yesterday, some of the other Republicans --

MCCARTHY: What did he say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have the exact quote on me, I'm sorry. He seemed to think that what happens in the House, happens in the House, but the Senate needs to be bipartisan. Have you coordinated with --

MCCARTHY: Well, that's interesting, because in the House here, we just had probably one of the biggest bipartisan votes collect a select committee on China. I don't know -- is the Senate even in this week? What did they do this week? Oh, yes, they haven't done anything.

So I think the House has been very productive in the first five days. But yes, I sat down with all the Republican senators and talk to them about ways that they could be more productive. They didn't even pass one appropriation bill last year. They didn't even pass an NDAA.

So the ways we can make the Senate more productive would be great. And I think us working together will help them in the process to do this.

Yes, ma'am? Oh yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your response to Democrats who believe that you may have brokered some sort of deal with Santos in order to keep him in the House?

MCCARTHY: I'd say they're wrong.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We saw the right flank of the party move you on the host package. Are you concerned that moderates will throw their weight around do the same?

MCCARTHY: Look, we are one party. We don't have just one idea. But we go from the Reagan philosophy. If we agree with people 80 percent of the time, we're all together. I like the idea of having a party so large that you have a lot of beliefs inside it. But you have a foundation of our beliefs. And I think what we went through last week will only make us stronger in the long run.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see a cap -- and you mentioned a cap agreement, budget cap agreement alongside the debt ceiling. Is that one of the things --

MCCARTHY: Well, I laid out from an example of what happened last time. When Nancy Pelosi was speaker, that's what transpired. To get a debt ceiling, they also got a cap on spending for the next two years. Spending is out of control here. There's been no oversight, and we cannot continue down the same process. I had a very good conversation with the President when he called me and I told him I'd like to sit down with him early and work through these challenges. Because, yes, your question earlier, Paul, the House is different. The American public made a decision where they fired the Democrats and they put us in charge.

We put out a commitment to America to tell them exactly what we would do if they gave us the power. And in this first week, we continue to keep that commitment. We repealed 87,000 IRS agents. We created a select committee on China to bring the jobs back. We continue to work for the -- going after accountability in this government, the church style committee of where we're going.

We just stopped the rate of our pretreat petroleum reserve so it won't be sold to China anymore. We continue to keep our promises and you'll watch it week after week after week.

Yes, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a new committee Speaker McCarthy, are you concerned that the targets of potential subpoenas will use the argument that you used, Mr. Jordan use to ignore the subpoena you got that this is just political?

MCCARTHY: No, because mine wasn't ignoring a subpoena. I said I would gladly go if we got to appoint people to the committee, if it was not political.


You will find the fundamental difference of me being a speaker and Nancy Pelosi. The other side, we'll get to name their members on the committee. It won't be handpicked by me and denying the Democrats their voice. So whatever transpires out of that committee is worth to Republicans and Democrats as we move forward. It's a fundamental difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) would be Intelligence Committee, is it?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said you're going to let Democrats appoint their own members to the committee, but you've also indicated you're not going to --

MCCARTHY: I was very clear early on. Let me rephrase some very direct to you. If you got the briefing I got from the FBI, you wouldn't have Swalwell on any committee. And you're going to tell me other Democrats couldn't fill that slot? He cannot get a security clearance in the private sector.

So would you like to give him a government clearance? You asked me questions about Santos. You asked the questions about Swalwell. Not only was he getting a clearance, he was inside an Intel Committee. He had more information than the majority of all the members. Did you ever raise that issue? No. Which you should have. You're going to tell me there's 200 other Democrats that couldn't fill that slot, but they kept them on it. The only way that they even knew it came forward is when they went to nominate them to the Intel Committee.

And then the FBI came and told the leadership then, he's got a problem. And they kept them on. That jeopardized all of us. Adam Schiff openly lied to the American public.

BOLDUAN: All right, so we're listening in to New House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. He's continuing taking questions from reporters, a lot of questions from reporters. This is his first weekly press conference as speaker.

Let's talk about some of what has been discussed already. Jeremy Diamond is back with us. He's at the White House. Jessica Dean is on Capitol Hill. And Senior -- CNN Senior Political Analyst, Nia-Malika Henderson is also here. Jessica, as one might expect in his first press conference he's getting, you know, he's talking about a lot of topics, but what stuck out to you?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, you know, look, what stuck out to me is that he clearly wants to be talking about anything besides George Santos or any splinters in the Republican Party that we saw on full display in the last week. Or, you know, what we're seeing with a lot of these hardliners getting the fruits of their labor last week where they're getting assigned to these plum committee positions.

He wants to be talking about oversight, about targeting, the Biden administration. He wants to talk about investigations, things that he believes are good for Republicans, and that's what he wants to be talking about. But Kate, what remains is, George Santos is a major distraction up here right now.

You heard him talking about how he's going to let that all go through the House Ethics Committee. The political reality is that they have this tiny majority, of course, it's only four seats. If they do a special election for George Santos seat, that could very well be a democratic pick up and take his majority down to even three seats. So he's certainly not inclined to do that.

But every day, we're getting more and more and more lies and accuracies from George Santos, who told us just yesterday and then repeated it today, that he will not be resigning. And in fact, Kate, at one point, he said, he'd resigned if 142 people called on him to resign or voted for him to resign. We're not quite sure what to make of that. But that remains a distraction.

And the other reality remains that McCarthy is certainly going to have to please a very wide spectrum of Republicans as he moves forward on things like the debt ceiling, which he also talked about. And that is a looming crisis here that we are probably barreling toward, is how are they going to solve the debt ceiling problem and get that fixed.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's going to be a problem very, very soon. DEAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Jeremy, one thing we also heard the House Speaker was to ask about it a couple times, but also was very focused on what you and I were just discussing, declassified documents that have been found at President Biden's private residence. And of course, then it is private office. McCarthy making the case as we've heard from others, but really making the case today that he believes that there's a double standard that has been applied.

DIAMOND: Yes, he was. And he also made clear that the House under him is going to be looking into this, going to be investigating this. Of course, we've already seen a number of letters, including from the incoming House Oversight Chairman, James Comer on this, the Intelligence Committees as well, looking into this requesting damage assessments from the intelligence community.

But in terms of this claim of a double standard from Kevin McCarthy, look, there's no question that there are very serious issues at stake here with classified documents being found in unsecure spaces held by President Biden's stemming from his time as vice president. But we also need to be clear that there are tremendous differences between what happened with a former President Trump and what is happening right now with President Biden.

And that is if you look at the number of documents with President Trump, we're looking at hundreds of documents in this case, we know that 10 documents were found in that initial batch, several more in the second batch. But beyond that, there is this issue of cooperation and of potential.