Return to Transcripts main page

The Brief with Bianca Nobilo

President Trump Says He Wants An Impeachment Trial in the U.S. Senate; Britain's Prince Andrew Faces New Fallout Over His Relationship With Convicted Pedophile Jeffrey Epstein; Hong Kong Prepares for Contentious Local Elections. Aired 5-5:30p ET

Aired November 22, 2019 - 17:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, Jake Tapper. You complete the show at The Lead CNN. Our coverage at CNN continues. Right

now, I'll see you Sunday morning.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN HOST: Tonight on THE BRIEF. A defiant President Trump says he wants an impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate. Britain's Prince

Andrew faces new fallout over his relationship with convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. After nearly six months of protests and violence, Hong

Kong prepares for contentious local elections.

Live from London. I'm Bianca Nobilo. Welcome to the show.

The U.S. Congress is heading off for the Thanksgiving holiday but there won't be much of a break for House Democrats working on the next phase of

the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump. They'll be sifting through the testimony of 12 witnesses who testified publicly over the last

two weeks, providing clear evidence that Mr. Trump and his aides pressured Ukraine an attempt to extract political favors.

We repeatedly heard that there was indeed a quid pro quo. But the House seems as divided as ever on whether this constitutes an impeachable

offense. Democrats are pushing ahead with a speedy timeline, despite not having the testimony of several key witnesses who refused to appear. The

Judiciary Committee could draft articles of impeachment next month and the Full House could vote by Christmas. One Democrat told CNN why they're on

the fast track.


REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): If we wait until we get all the evidence for all the crimes committed by this President, it's going to be well into the next

decade. What we should do is move forward when we have the proof that he committed a particular high crime and misdemeanor.

I think we've reached that point, but it wouldn't hurt for us to get a bit more information. That's why we're going to have hearings from the

Judiciary Committee that will add on to what we've done in the Intelligence Committee.


NOBILO: President Trump says he's looking forward to the Republican controlled Senate taking up the case if the House does impeach. He says

frankly, I want a trial, adding that he wants to see Democrats testify saying there's only one person I want more than Hunter Biden and that is

Adam Schiff.

Let's get more now from Capitol Hill. We're joined by Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly. Phil why do Democrats feel like they've got

enough evidence at this point to move forward when we haven't heard from people like Mick Mulvaney or John Bolton or the Secretary of State Mike

Pompeo. And is there any chance that those witnesses could in fact be called in a Senate trial?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, Bianca, it's a great question, it's one rank and file Democrats in the House have even been

asking themselves at various points. But I think there is two pieces of this that you need to pay close attention to.

First, is the idea of what you laid out. 12 witnesses over the course of two weeks, several more witnesses who didn't appear publicly but did appear

behind closed doors that gave Democrats what they say is plenty of evidence to make their case.

I would also note that those individuals who have decided not to cooperate, if decided to not respond to subpoenas, not come in and testify themselves

create the possibility of an article of impeachment on their own on obstruction. Take a listen to what Speaker Nancy Pelosi said just



REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): They keep taking it to court and no, we're not going to wait till the courts decide. That might be information that's

available to the Senate in terms of how far we go and when we go.

But we can't wait for that because again it's a technique, it's obstruction of justice, obstruction of Congress. So, we cannot let their further

obstruction of Congress be an impediment to honoring our oath of office


MATTINGLY: And Bianca, it's worth noting, obstruction and obstruction of Congress has been an article of impeachment in past impeachment. You can

expect it will be again citing specifically those officials who haven't shown up along with other articles have been drafted. Based on what you saw

on the hearings, now I will note you asked, do we think anybody may come in. Pelosi hit on another key point there.

There is still a Senate trial to come if and when the House votes on this and the expectation is it will by Christmas. There is a possibility perhaps

someone like John Bolton could come in then but at least during the House process, it looks like they've got what they need at least in their minds

to move forward, Bianca.

NOBILO: Phil Mattingly in Washington. Thank you very much. Britain's general election campaign was back on the airwaves on Friday. The leaders

of the four major parties went on national TV to answer questions from voters.

Boris Johnson unsurprisingly said, it's time for the voters to give him a parliament that can get a Brexit deal done.


BORIS JOHNSON, UK PRIME MINISTER: Let's be in no doubt. I didn't want to have an election now and no prime minister wants to have an election on

December the 12th. We had to do it, because Parliament is blocking Brexit. They were given every opportunity to pass it and they were given every

opportunity to pass it and they passed a law to insist that we extended beyond October the 31st.


NOBILO: His primary rival Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn continues to call for a new Brexit referendum to find out the will of the people. And he says, he

will not take a side in that leave or.


remain vote.


JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: My role and the role of our government will be to ensure that that referendum is held in a fair

atmosphere and we will abide by the result of it. And I will adopt as Prime Minister if I am at the time, a neutral stance so that I can credibly carry

out the results of that to bring our communities and country together, rather than continuing an endless debate about the EU and Brexit.


NOBILO: The leaders of the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National Party also took part in the primetime event. The SNP vowed not to form a

Coalition government with Boris Johnson. While the Liberal Democrat leader defended her position to stop Brexit. So, all the main parties there

digging in on their established positions yet again.

Now another organization is distancing itself from Britain's Prince Andrew. The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra says it dropped Andrew as a patron. It's

the latest fallout from the Prince's disastrous interview, widely accepted to have backfired, where he tried to explain his friendship with convicted

sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. CNN's Max Foster has more.


MATT FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: By speaking out, Prince Andrew hope to end speculation about him and his links to convicted sex offender Jeffrey

Epstein. But it ended up costing him his job.

According to a royal source, he agreed to step back from his public duties following discussions between him and the Queen, Prince Charles and others.

In a follow-up statement, the Duke expressed sympathy for Epstein's victims and regret for his association with Epstein both noticeably absent from his

BBC interview.

EMILY MAITLIS, BBC HOST: Do you regret the whole friendship with Epstein?

PRINCE ANDREW: No. I still not for the reason being is that the people that I met and the opportunities that I was given to learn either by him or

because of him were actually very useful.

FOSTER: The Duke has denied all the allegations made by Virginia Roberts, who alleges Epstein forced her to have sex with Prince Andrew while she was


ANDREW: I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady.

FOSTER: He even questioned the authenticity of this photograph of them together. He refuted Roberts' claims that he was sweating whilst dancing in

a nightclub, saying an overdose of adrenaline after he was shot at while serving in the Falklands War made him medically unable to sweat.

ASHLEY GROSSMAN, ENDOCRINE SPECIALIST: I can't readily see how someone following stress can stop sweating and then subsequently overtime, start

sweating again. That is - if it occurs, it must be very, very rare.

FOSTER: One by one, corporate sponsors for the Prince's charitable causes peeled away. And when the story became part of the British election debate,

it was clear that Duke's position was becoming untenable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the monarchy fit for purpose. Jeremy Corbyn.

CORBYN: Needs a bit of improvement.

FOSTER: The Duke's actions had affected the institution that he was born into.

PETER HUNT, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: This has damaged the British monarchy. Make no mistake of that. It's not yet a full-blown crisis. What is being called

into question is the judgment of many people, including the judgment of the Queen, for allowing this interview to take place.


NOBILO: One final note. Andrew's private secretary, who was responsible for arranging that controversial interview with Emily Maitlis has stepped down

from her position. It's unknown if she voluntarily resigned or if she was forced out.

Moving now to South America. Three people were killed and dozens more injured during a national strike in Colombia. Hundreds of thousands of

people took to the streets across the country Thursday to protest the President's policies. In response, the government sealed its borders and

sent riot police to patrol the streets.

Colombia joins other countries in the region, like Chile and Bolivia, that have also seen deadly anti-government demonstrations. These pictures that

you're looking at now are live from Chile, where protesters have been on the streets for the past month.

Hong Kong is set to hold district council elections on Sunday. But after nearly six months of massive protests, the city is tense. In the lead up to

the vote, we've seen violent attacks on both pro-democracy and pro-Beijing candidates. Will Ripley asked one pro-democracy politician whether he

thinks the vote will help satiate the protest movement.


TED HUI, DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANDIDATE: Sadly, I say this does not end until the government can take two more steps. Just a very slight sorry, that's

not enough.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He embedded with protesters for two days at the height of their standoff with police at PolyU.

HUI: I witnessed that they are just defending themselves.

RIPLEY: Police say they only.


Reacted when protesters provoke. Hui is calling for calm this weekend on all sides.

HUI: Well, those who just want to vote peacefully and voice - have their voice out, this is their chance to show their power.

RIPLEY: Less violence in the streets means higher voter turnout and he hopes more power for the pro-democracy movement.


NOBILO: Will Ripley reporting for us that. Simone Biles is the world's most decorated female gymnast. She's arguably one of the best athletes in

history. But a new report from The Wall Street Journal is laying out how the national organization meant to protect and support her has failed her.

The report says, USA Gymnastics kept Biles in the dark when it began its sexual abuse investigation into its former team doctor, Larry Nassar, back

in 2015. They reportedly knew that she was uncomfortable with Nassar but did not include her in the investigation or mention her to the FBI.

Biles later accused him of abuse. Nassar pleaded guilty to sexual abuse and is in prison. More than 150 women and girls explained to the court how his

abuse was hidden in plain sight.

Brynn Gingras joins me now live from New York. Brynn, we've heard in the last hour from the former USA Gymnastics CEO, Steve Penny, who is at the

center of all of this. What's he saying?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's actually sorts of denying The Wall Street Journal reporting, Bianca. And I want to give you some context.

The Wall Street Journal did a very extensive report and it included interviews of several key players. It also included interviews with Penny's

attorneys and also testimony that went before Congress in the whole scandal, the wake of the scandal with Larry Nassar.

Let me go over what the report was from The Wall Street Journal again, saying, in 2015, Simone Biles was among three gymnasts who had a way of

reporting concerns to the USA Women's Gymnastics head. Those concerns allegedly went all the way up to the top, to the CEO, Steve Penny himself.

And the reporting is by The Wall Street Journal that he really did nothing with it, that he went and didn't tell Simon Biles that she - sorry Nassar

was a part of an internal investigation that was ongoing and also didn't give Biles his name to the FBI, who was about to conduct a criminal

investigation as, hey, go talk to her, because she has some information that could be useful to you.

Now, let's put this in a timeline. This is back in 2015. Now, if you remember, 2016 was the Rio Summer Olympics and Biles was becoming this

rising star in gymnastics. She was doing promotions for USA Gymnastics. It was until after she got back from that, that essentially, she was told all

about these investigations. And Simone is really just saying, she's numb to all this.

But quickly, before I let you go, I do want to say what Penny did say. He said again that he didn't know that she was a victim and that he was even

saying to the FBI, they really should have jumped on their investigation and gone forward faster than they did. Bianca.

NOBILO: Brynn Gingras, thanks very much for bringing us the latest on that story. Appreciate it. Still to come on The Brief tonight, CNN confronts a

convicted pedophile priest working at a charity office in the Central African Republic. Who kidnapped and why?



NOBILO: Now an exclusive CNN report. In a year-long investigation in the United States, Europe and Africa, CNN found that the second largest

religious order in the world, the Salesians of Don Bosco, repeatedly failed to protect children from pedophile Catholic priests. In the first part of

CNN special report, senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir uncovers the case of a convicted pedophile who was sent to work among some

of the most vulnerable children in the world. This report features some themes which viewers might find distressing.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're tracking down a convicted pedophile priest, Father Luk Delft. Delft abused two children in a dormitory in

Belgium. We've learned he may be abusing again. Our investigation is zeroing in on a remote town in the Central African Republic, Kaga Bandoro.

It's taken us about two days. Three different planes to get up here to the north of the Central African Republic. A few were trying to disappear. This

would definitely be suitably remote.

UNICEF has called it one of the worst places in the world to be a child. It's here in Kaga Bandoro that Delft first worked for Caritas, the Catholic

charity. Their mission to protect the most vulnerable. It's also here that we're hearing whispers of possible new victims. At a camp for displaced

people on the outskirts of town, Alban and his father agreed to speak to us about his alleged abuse at the hands of Father Luk Delft.


Do you know who this man is?



ALBAN ALAIN, ABUSE SURVIVOR: We were friends. He would buy me clothes and he would often give me money. Every morning, I would greet him before he

would go to work. It was the basis of our friendship.

ELBAGIR: He became your friend. What happened?

ALAIN: It was a horrible thing he did to me. When you showed me his picture, it upset me? I don't want to even see his face. It upsets me very


ELBAGIR: It's clear Alban is too upset to talk much more. So, we asked his father if he can explain what happened. What did Father Delft do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he did to my son is not a good thing. There are plenty of women he could have had sex with. He preferred to sodomize my


ELBAGIR: This was hard for both Alban and his father. But they told us it was important for them to talk. They want justice. We leave Kaga Bandoro.

It's time to track down Delft. This is Bangui, capital of the Central African Republic. We've traveled here from the north where we met Alban.

Our contacts are telling us Delft regularly celebrates mass in the area.

We try the churches. He's nowhere to be found. We try him at his residence. But he hasn't spent the night. Nothing. We spent the whole morning looking

for Father Delft. It's been a bit of a wild goose chase, but now we're hearing that he's back at his office and we're heading there now.

We spoke to the prosecutor in Belgium. We want to ask you some questions about breaking the terms of your sentence. We also spoke to some children

up in Kaga Bandoro, who has some really disturbing stories to share with us. And of course, we want to hear what you have to say about it, Father



ELBAGIR: What do you mean nothing?

DELFT: Nothing.

ELBAGIR: You're a priest. You are man of God. These children are accusing you of abusing them and you have nothing to say for yourself?


ELBAGIR: Do you know Alban? Do you remember Alban?


He said he was 13 when you abused him, do you remember him?


ELBAGIR: Alban. Alban in Kaga Bandoro. At the compound, the Catholic compound, he and his father spoke to us. He was crying. He said that you

told him you loved him and then you hurt him. You've nothing to say.


ELBAGIR: It doesn't disturb you to hear that children said this about you?


ELBAGIR: Do you want to say anything?


ELBAGIR: Well, we will of course be speaking to the managers of Caritas about our findings. Thank you for whatever this was.

Father Luk Delft's religious order, the Salesians of Don Bosco moved him multiple times each time to schools, campuses, even supervising children

before we were able to catch up with him.

You may think you know this story. Priests abusing children. But what you may not know is that there are powerful institutions within the church who

are free to self-police. In many cases, not even the pope can sanction them. Father Luk Delft belongs to the Salesians of Don Bosco, the second

largest of these institutions, a religious order whose mission is to help the most vulnerable children in the world.

Patrick Wall was himself a religious order priest and to date has helped to investigate hundreds of clerical abuse cases.

PATRICK WALL, CO-AUTHOR, "SEX, PRIESTS, AND SECRET CODES": My experience has been that Salesians have the highest percentage of perpetrators of any

religious order across the world because of their focus. If a priest is allowed to go 20 to 30 years, there are several hundred victims per priest.

ELBAGIR: We came to the Vatican to share the evidence that we were able to unearth over a yearlong investigation. And it's not just Father Delft. We

found evidence of abuses being moved, evidence of a refusal to defrock convicted pedophiles.

Caritas Internationalis' new head of safeguarding says the Salesians did not contact them about the current allegations against Caritas' former

Director Luk Delft. So, you only made aware when we contacted you?

ANDREW AZZOPARDI, CARITAS INTERNATIONALIS: Yes. And from what information you shared with us that our new allegations there, which need to be

investigated, hopefully by police or at least internally by the church to take action against Father Luk and any other person who is responsible for

Father Luk's behavior.

ELBAGIR: The Salesians appears to have withheld information even from others in the church. We are still looking to understand how this is

possible. Father Hans Zollner, there was one of the few people at the Vatican willing to answer questions. He says the new papal guidelines are


FATHER HANS ZOLLNER, PONTIFICAL COMMISSION FOR THE PROTECTION OF MINORS: This is a very important step forward in the development of a culture of


ELBAGIR: Does this apply, though, to the holy orders? Because the holy orders will not directly fall under that bishop.

ZOLLNER: Now, the congregations and the religious orders follow a different type of structure and legal procedures. Many people think the Catholic

Church is a monolithic block with one CEO, who is the pope and he press a button and every bishop and every priest and every Catholic actually

salute. And they follow what he does. And that is not the case. In some cases, in way too many cases, the religious superiors did not follow

through canon law.

ELBAGIR: But the fact is they did not follow canon law and there was no oversight mechanism that made a note of that. So, there are no sanctions.

There have been no sanctions for that.

ZOLLNER: If there are no sanctions within the community, which is in that case an order or a congregation, then there is almost no possibility to do


ELBAGIR: And I think that's the heartbreak for a lot of survivors.

Until this blind spot is addressed and the religious orders brought under the same guidelines as other priests and bishops, many survivors believe

the cycle of clerical abuse will only continue. Nima Elbagir, CNN, the Vatican.


NOBILO: A source tells CNN that the Central African Republic has opened an investing.


into the case. There's also other reaction. The United Nations has temporarily suspended its work with the Central African Republic branch of

Caritas, and a major European foundation has dropped Caritas and another charity associated with the Salesians of Don Bosco from a pre-Christmas

fundraising event. The Brief returns in just a moment.


NOBILO: Victoria's Secret fashion show, famed for its big-name musicians and for showcasing supermodels on the catwalk in their underwear, is

officially canceled.

Ratings last year were the lowest ever, and the show has been accused of being sexist and anti-feminist and failing to promote diversity. The

company just posted another quarter of declining sales. It faces big competition from diverse competitors like Rihanna's lingerie line, which

focuses on inclusivity of race and size.

The Victoria's Secret show mainly promoted the fashion industry's narrow ideal of sexiness as a tool, slim supermodel. The rise and fall of its

popularity says something about the complicated relationship between feminism, empowerment and objectification. And it indicates a trend of

consumers not having standards dictated to them but using their wallets to redefine them.

I'm Bianca Nobilo and World Sport is up next.