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The Brief with Bianca Nobilo

Jared Kushner Says Palestinians Must Accept "Big Opportunity"; Fears Over coronavirus Spread In Hong Kong; NYT; Bolton Book Ties Ukraine Aide With Biden Probe; Wuhan coronavirus Death Toll Now Over 100; Trump Administration Releases Its Plan For Peace In The Middle East. Aired 5- 5.30p ET

Aired January 28, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:00]

JAKETAPPER, CNN HOST: It sounds awful. David Culver, stay safe. Thank you so much. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter @JAKETAPPER,

and you can tweet the show @THELEADCNN. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I'll see you tomorrow morning.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Tonight on THE BRIEF, the Palestinians protesting in the streets as the U.S. administration releases

its plan for peace in the Middle East.

More than 100 people have now died from the Wuhan coronavirus and thousands more taken ill. And U.S. President Trump's impeachment defense team

concludes arguments, but will we hear from any witnesses?

Live from London, I'm Bianca Nobilo. Welcome to the show. Israel is moving fast U.S. President Donald Trump finally unveiled his long awaited Middle

East peace plan. Within just a matter of days we could see very real consequences on the ground, a sea change in borders previously meant to be

determined through negotiation.

Mr. Trump's plan gives the green light for Israel to formally annex the Jordan Valley and Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Israeli Prime

Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the first stage of sovereignty will be brought before his cabinet on Sunday.

The leaders stood side by side as Mr. Trump revealed the plan he calls a win-win for Palestinians and Israelis. But the optics says it all. No

Palestinians leaders were there because they're rejecting the deal outright. Mr. Trump insists it's in Palestinians best interest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This map will more than double the Palestinian territory and provide a Palestinian Capital in

Eastern Jerusalem where America will proudly open an Embassy. No Palestinians or Israelis will be uprooted from their homes. Our vision will

deliver massive commercial investment of $50 billion into the new Palestinian state. You have many, many countries that want to take part in

this.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Too many plans tried to pressure Israel to withdraw from vital territory like the Jordan Valley.

But you, Mr. President, you recognized that Israel must have sovereignty in the Jordan Valley and the other - and other strategic areas of Judea and

Samaria. Rather than pay easy lip service to Israel's security and simply shut your eyes, hope for the best, you recognize that Israel must have

sovereignty in places that enable Israel to defend itself by itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: One Palestinian official says the U.S. plan is helping push Israel off the cliff towards, "Full-fledged apartheid". Thousands of Palestinians

took to the streets of Gaza to protest the deal. The Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calls it the slap of the century.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENT: All our rights are not for sale or for negotiation. Your deal is a conspiracy, and it will not work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Mr. Trump warned Palestinians, this could be the last opportunity they will ever have to achieve their own state. His son-in-law and senior

adviser put it more bluntly when he spoke to our Chief International Correspondent Christian Amanpour. .Jared Kushner, a key architect of the

plan warned Palestinians not to "Screw this up".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISER TO U.S.PRESIDENT TRUMP: A lot of these areas, just the reality are that Israel's and they're not leaving. There's never

been a deal where they've contemplated doing that, and its notes pragmatic I'm not looking at the world as it that exists in 1967. I'm looking at the

world as that exists in 2020. We have 5 million Palestinians who are really trapped because of bad leadership.

So what we've done is we've created an opportunity for their leadership to either seize or not. If they screw up this opportunity, which, again, they

have a perfect track record of missing opportunities. If they screw this up I think that they will have a very hard time looking the international

community in the face, saying they're victims, saying they have rights. This is a great deal for them.

If they come to the table and negotiate, I think they could get something excellent. What I would encourage people to do is try to divorce yourself

from all of the history, that's happened over the years, and read this plan, look at the map and say - two questions in mind.

Number one, does this make the lives of the Palestinian people much better? The answer is unquestionably yes. The second question does this compromise

Israel's security or does this make Israel much more secure? The answer is unquestionably doing this deal makes Israel much more secure. Why? It gives

them a defensible territory, it reduces tension in the region and it gives them the ability now.

Now that they've agreed to this, you're going see them becoming less and less isolated internationally and you're going to see more and more

pressure put on Palestinian leadership to do it.

Right now, what's Palestinian leadership? You're talking about them like they're great diplomats. They're calling for a day of rage. Who do you know

that runs a state that when they don't get what they want?

[17:05:00]

KUSHNER: They call for a day of rage? That's not how people who are capable of running as state work. So gain, the Palestinian leadership haves to ask

themselves question. Do they want a state? Do they want a better life? If they do we have a created a framework for them to have it and we're going

treat them in a very respectable manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Let's go now to Oren Lieberman in Jerusalem. Oren, the White House has released what it calls a conceptual plan of the proposed border for

Israel and a few to Palestinian states. Can you walk us through this? What's been announced?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, very soon this will be far beyond conceptual, because this plan the Trump Administration vision for Middle

East peace giving Israel a green light to annex large swaths of the West Bank, considered occupied territory under international law and by the

international community.

The simplest way to look at this map is look at and say everything Israel has right now it keeps. Israel will on Sunday move towards annexing the

Jordan Valley as well as all Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Most of those in contiguous territory. That was one of the big selling points here

over the Trump Administration to get Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to nominally agree to the future creation of a Palestinian state.

Meanwhile, there are some isolated settlements. Those two will be part of Israel essentially bubbles of Israeli sovereignty that carve up what was

the West Bank into essentially a misshapen piece of territory that the Palestinians, if they meet certain conditions or requirements from the

Trump Administration, can claim as a state.

That is not what they're willing to accept, a Swiss Cheese Version of West Bank. It is also worth noting when Trump talked about doubling their

territory; it was giving them some additional land along the Sinai border in addition to Gaza there and a tunnel that connects the territories.

NOBILO: Mm-hmm. Thank you, Oren. Oren Liebermann there for us in Jerusalem. Let's go now to the West Bank for more reaction from the region. Our Sam

Kylie is in Ramallah. Sam, tell us more about what the reaction has been like? Based on that, do you think there's any infinitesimal chance of this

plan working even in a heavily negotiated form?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNAATIONAL CORESPONDENT: I don't think there's any prospect whatsoever of the Palestinians joining negotiations. That's

certainly the position of Mahmoud Abbas and there is unanimity unusually among all the different Palestinian factions including Hamas that this is

in no way, shape, or form a proposal that they could possibly entertain as a means forward as part of negotiations because it actually moved already

beyond the whole motion of a plan.

In reality, as Oren was saying huge areas of the West Bank are going to be annexed over the next week or so leaving the Palestinians very little to

talk about indeed.

What's been interesting, though, is that Egypt, the United Arab Emirates have said not mentioned anything about annexation but says that this

represents an opportunity for a dialogue also adopted by the United Kingdom, until now a very firmly in the camp of insisting on a viable two-

state solution with a viable future Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders that now seems to have been thrown out the window. Very interesting

development indeed, Bianca.

NOBILO: Yes, it is. Sam, thank you. Sam Kylie there for us.

The Wuhan coronavirus is spreading rapidly in China and beyond. In just the course of a day, we have seen a 65 percent jump in the number of reported

cases. Currently there are 46,600 n China and dozens more around the world. At least 106 people have died.

China's President says the coronavirus epidemic is a demon that won't be allowed to hide. Xi Jinping met with the World Health Organization Director

in Beijing. They agreed the W.H.O. would send an international team to investigate, but the U.S. wants more from China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX AZAR, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We offered to send a CDC team to China that could assist with these public health efforts. I

reiterated that offer when I spoke to China's Minister of Health on Monday, and it was reiterated again via the World Health Organization's Leadership

today in Beijing. We are urging China more cooperation and transparency are the most important steps you can take toward a more effective response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Japan, South Korea, and the European Commission are sending planes to evacuate their citizens from Wuhan, the heart of the epidemic. And

according to the State Department, a plane carrying U.S. diplomats just departed Wuhan.

Hong Kong's government is trying to stop the spread of the coronavirus by closing some of its borders with Mainland China and is halting individual

travel permits for mainlanders who wish to visit but that might not be enough to stop fear percolating in Hong Kong. Blake Essig explains.

[17:10:00]

BLAKE ESSIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A sea of people, shoulder to shoulder, hiding behind protected masks. This is the scene from a keyboarder crossing

connecting Mainland China and Hong Kong. Already border restrictions are in place to block the entry of anybody from Wuhan Province. The epicenter of

the deadly Wuhan coronavirus.

And today, the city's leader addressed the immediate announcing further measures including partial transport bans and the suspension of some

service, including border crossing stations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARRIE LAM, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE: We'll substantially reduce the flow of people between the two places.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ESSIG: But several points eventually with the Mainland remain open. We're here at a border crossing, one of several connecting Hong Kong and Mainland

China. While several medical officials and legislators are calling for the border to be closed completely, as you can see, people from the Mainland

continue to stream in on the heels of the Lunar New Year.

And that's a problem for some people, like this Hong Kong lawmaker Michael Tien.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL TIEN, HONG KONG LAWMAKER: Have a complete closure of the land and sea boarder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ESSIG: He says drastic measures need to be taken to prevent a further spread before it is too late.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIEN: It's better to do it right now and then be prepared to lift the ban any time if signs are improving in China, rather than not do anything and

wait for hell to break loose and then impose the ban.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ESSIG: A sentiment shared by many Hong Kong residents and those visiting the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they should stop people from Mainland China from entering Hong Kong, because they can bring the virus here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they should block the way that the Chinese people coming into Hong Kong, because now at least the virus is very

serious, and we don't want all the virus from Wuhan to come into Hong Kong and affect our peoples.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ESIG: While many people are calling for a complete border closure and some medical workers are even threatening to strike if it doesn't happen, when

asked, Chief Executive Carrie Lam defends the current measures in place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief Executive, you said the public safety is your primary concern, yet when you lay out the measures you're taking they sound

like half measures. Are you putting Hong Kongers' lives at risk by not closing the border?

LAM: There are a large number of Hong Kong residents who are now traveling in the Mainland and overseas and they need to come back, so I don't think

it is very meaningful to talk about a complete closure of the border control points.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ESSIG: And that means Hong Kong's border with the Mainland will remain partially open, forcing everyone, including the list of Hong Kongers to

protect themselves, Blake Essig, CNN, Hong Kong.

NOBILO: Donald Trump's lawyers wrapped up their arguments a few hours ago in the President's impeachment trial. What will happen next? The lawyers

portray Mr. Trump's dealings with the Ukraine as legal and urged the Senate to rise above politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT CIPOLLONE, WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: The election is only months away. The American people are entitled to choose their President. Overturning the

last election and massively interfering with the upcoming one would cause serious and lasting damage to the people of the United States and to our

great country. The Senate cannot allow this to happen. It is time for this to end, here and now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Hanging over this, Former National Security Adviser John Bolton's bombshell, purportedly from his upcoming book that Mr. Trump directly tied

Ukrainian security aid to an investigation of the Bidens. According to "The New York Times" Bolton also wrote that he was worried Mr. Trump was

granting favors to autocratic leaders of Turkey and China and voiced those concerns to Attorney General William Barr.

These reported revelations put new focus on whether Senate could hear from Bolton and others. So let's bring in CNN Congressional Correspondent Phil

Mattingly. Phil, is there any indication that we're in fact getting closer to hearing from new witnesses in the Senate trial?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is the question. That is everything. That's the ball game right now. If you have the answer to

that you will know and be able to dictate how the remainder of this trial so going to go?

Let me track back to the Bolton revelations when they came out on Sunday night. By the next morning, the Senate Republicans, which obviously control

the majority in the United States Senate, were unsettled. There is no question about it. They are blindsided by them. Even Senate Majority Leader

Mitch McConnell had no idea that they were coming and there was a period there where things looked a little bit dicey is what I was told by one

Republican.

That appears to have shifted between Senator Majority McConnell between the White House legal team. They have moved very hard to put the pressure on

Republicans to vote against the idea of moving forward on subpoenas for witnesses and documents. While Democrats are continuing to ramp up the

pressure, saying the only way you can have a fair trial is to have witnesses and documents

In particular John Bolton based on what we saw just in "The New York Times." There was just a private meeting every single Republican Senator

meeting behind closed doors where I'm told McConnell made a presentation basically talking about the drawbacks in his mind of moving forward with

witnesses and documents.

[17:15:00]

MATTINGLY: So the reality is this - Democrats need four Republicans to join them if they want witnesses and documents. The other reality is they don't

currently have them. And I think Bianca, the real question right now is, will what McConnell and the Trump legal team have been doing over the

course of the last couple of days end up being successful, or will they lose four? I think we're going to find out over the course of the next 24

hours or so?

NOBILO: Phil, thank you for the reality check. Phil Mattingly there for us in Washington.

5G technology and national security two issues at the heart of a rift between the United States and Britain. It involves Chinese Tech Giant

Huawei. President Trump has pressed for a total ban on all Hauawei products fuelled by fears that China could use the technology to spy on the U.S. but

apparently for the sake of its future digital economy, Britain announced it plans to grant Huawei a limited role in building its 5G infrastructure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIC RAAB, BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER: GCHQ have categorically confirmed that how we construct our 5G and full fiber public telecoms network has

nothing to do with how his share data and the UK's Technical Security Experts agree that the new controls on the high risk vendors are completely

consistent with the UK's security needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Mr. Trump's Administration says that it's disappointed by the UK's decision. There is no safe option for un-trusted vendors to control any

part of 5G networks said one official. Brussels has also said that it would allow Huawei a limited 5G role in the European Union.

Still to come on the program, the coronavirus keeps spreading around the world. Next I'll talk with an Epidemiologist about the concerns for the

public and how this virus is different. That's coming up for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: As the coronavirus spreads people are panicking but it's important to keep it in perspective. Let's compare it for example with the flu, which

often carries similar symptoms. In the U.S. alone there have been 15 million cases of influenza since the flu season began at the end of

September.

More than 140,000 of those cases have hospitalized patients and more than 8,000 people have died this season in the United States. The coronavirus

meanwhile has already infected more than 4,000 people just in China. Since the virus was first detect back in the mid December. More than 100 people

have died from the virus since the outbreak began.

Dr. Celine Gounder is an epidemiologist and Infectious Disease Specialist at New York's University School of Medicine at Bellevue Hospital. And she

joins me today on "The Debrief." Thank you for joining us. Appreciate you on the program today.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, BELLEVUE HOSPITAL: Hi, Bianca. How are you?

[17:20:00]

NOBILO: I'm good, thank you. I think the most pertinent question given what we have just said about true influenza is the severity of the coronavirus.

With the information that you have to hand, what can you say about how severe the symptoms are and how much it leads the fatalities compared to a

normal flu?

GOUNDER: The symptoms themselves are quiet similar, so fever and cough and of course that's what makes it hard to tease them apart. But if you think

about it - if you get the coronavirus versus the flu, as an individual your risk of dying from the coronavirus is about ten times of dying from the

flu.

What distinguished the two is that the flu is much more common. If you multiply that risk by number of people who are infected by the flu the flu

at least so far has been the bigger killer whether it is this year and years prior. So really what are going to determine how deadly this

coronavirus outbreak is, are how many people the infection spreads to?

NOBILO: But if Ii understand you correctly Dr. Celine, that would mean if two equal individuals were to contract the flu and the one coronavirus, the

one with the coronavirus would be at a greater risk.

GOUNDER: Correct, it's a ten times greater risk of dying in that one individual.

NOBILO: Mm-hmm. Now, one of the other big questions of the moment is to what extent this virus has been spreading before people's symptoms present?

I know that you said that it could have been spreading as early as October, but either it was spreading before people had symptoms but perhaps people

were just misdiagnosing, as you said perhaps confusing it with the flu. Where are we on finding out the answer to that?

GOUNDER: There's evidence that probably this coronavirus was transmitting as early as October. That's on the basis of both clinical cases as well as

- if you look at the genetic sequencing of the virus, the different isolates of the virus, we can see - we can make a family tree and figure

out how far they're related and how far back they go tea common ancestor?

We see that common ancestor in October, so this has probably been transmitted for a while. That makes it more challenging. It means that this

disease is spread a lot more widely than we previously recognized.

NOBILO: There seems to have been differing opinions in the last couple of weeks about how contagious coronavirus actually is? I would like to you

answer that, and also, if people are traveling in areas where the virus is present, what can they do to prevent the spread of it and protect them?

GOUNDER: Right. One of the key questions is can people without symptoms transmit the coronavirus? That has been suggested by the Chinese Health

Minister. If that is true it's going to require a very different approach to containment than if it's something we can be screening for symptoms and

isolating the individuals who are symptomatic and testing them for disease.

That's a crucial distinction. CDC Scientists - you were saying earlier Secretary Azar has asked you know have them sent over to provide

assistance. The CDC scientists have not been invited into the country. They have not been able to confirm that report that asymptomatic persons could

transmit.

So that is one, concerning if that's true, and two, remains unknown. In terms of what you can be doing if you're a traveler, a lot of things that

we recommend you do normally. Good hand hygiene, covering your mouth if you cough or sneeze, but not using your hands, using your elbows. So that

you're not contaminating your hands.

And so you know, honestly getting a flu shot would really help the entire public health response here, because you're really looking for a needle in

a hay stack. Those coronavirus needles in this hay stack of the flu as well as cause of cold. If we can shrink the size of that hay stack by getting

people to get their flu shots it will make it a lot easier to find the people who have the coronavirus.

NOBILO: I see. It will help with detection and disease surveillance. Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Doctor Celine Gounder, thank you

very much for joining us today.

GOUNDER: My pleasure.

NOBILO: When THE BRIEF returns, Donald Trump is not the first President to try and solve the Palestinian/Israeli issue, but will his plan succeed

where others have failed?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:00]

NOBILO: Earlier today, we saw the outlines of what the White House is calling a plan for Middle East peace, but it isn't the first time world

leaders have stood in the United States and spoken of exactly that.

This was September 1978 at Camp David when the U.S., Egyptian, and Israeli Leaders signed the Camp David Accord. Then, there was 1993 and the famous

handshake at the White House between Bill Clinton, Rabin and Yasser Arafat confirms the accords. There have been other times since.

On all these occasions the language was one of hope, hope that ultimately faded. Notice the difference between this image today and the others. Two

figures, not three. No Palestinian representation. Peace, the absence of war or hostilities necessitates the agreement of both parties.

The Palestinian Ambassador to the UK told CNN earlier that the U.S. President's plan was "A second-rate political comedy". If Mr. Trump's plan

is to succeed, a lot of minds need to change. That's THE BRIEF. I'm Bianca Nobilo. "WORLD SPORT" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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