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The Global Brief with Bianca Nobilo

Poland Fallout; Trump 2024?; Tuvalu Digital Nation. Aired 5-5:30p ET

Aired November 16, 2022 - 17:00   ET


CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: Hello and a warm welcome. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London. This is THE GLOBAL BRIEF.

Ahead, Ukraine's president says he is convinced that the missile that fell into Poland was not Ukrainian.

Then, meantime, in America, should the world care that Donald Trump is running again for president?

And protecting sovereignty. Why the island nation of Tuvalu is turning to the metaverse to combat climate crisis concerns.


According to NATO and Polish leaders, the missile that killed two people in eastern Poland late Tuesday was not itself an act of war, but was an

unfortunate accident resulting from war. They believe it was a Ukrainian defense missile which was fired to intercept Russian air attacks and was

mistakenly landed across the Polish border.

Ukraine's president however says he does not believe that the missile came from Ukrainian forces at all. He is calling for Ukraine experts to be

allowed to join the investigation in Poland. We will bring you the latest from Ukraine in just a moment.

But first, let's get an update on the investigation from Matthew Chance in Poland.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Russian-made missile striking a NATO ally and setting the world on edge.

But it now seems the explosion that killed two Polish farmers here was a tragic accident, not as feared ordered by the Kremlin.

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The incident was likely caused by a Ukrainian air defense missile fired to defend Ukrainian territory

against Russian cruise missile attacks. But let me be clear. This is not Ukraine's fault.

CHANCE: Not Ukraine's fault because its military was defending against the barrage of Russian missiles, targeting essential infrastructure and killing


Among the victims on Tuesday was this 69-year-old woman. She was visiting her husband's grave in Kyiv when a piece of shrapnel tore through her body

and killed her.

As winter sets in, Russia is making Ukraine's civilians suffer with reckless abandon. But what happened here in Poland shows just how dangerous

that is for the whole world, too. This, while Ukrainian officials, are redoubling their request for more advanced air defense systems from the

United States and Europe.

They've also committed to cooperating with an investigation into what happened here and admitted their air defenses were active in the area.

But officials are clear, Russian President Vladimir Putin is responsible, dragging millions of Ukrainians and now a sleepy one-street Polish town

into his war of choice.

Matthew Chance, CNN, on the Polish-Ukrainian border.


MACFARLANE: Let's get straight to our Sam Kiley who's live in Kryvyi Rih in Ukraine.

Sam, to President Zelenskyy's comments today, he has no doubt that Tuesday's explosion was caused by a Russian missile. This indicates there

is some disconnect between Ukraine and its Western allies. Do we know what evidence Zelenskyy is making these claims with?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's very difficult to work out why he would say this. He is insisting that it is based on the

best advice he has got from his military advisers and up to the military chain of command. He says he's been told that they didn't fire dismissal.

How he could know that so early on is quite interesting. He is also saying that all of the data from this missile strike that NATO and his allies in

Poland have, they would love to see in Ukraine. He's also said that he would like to be able to send Ukrainian officials to inspect the site where

the two farmers were killed.

So, he is sticking to the whole position that it wasn't a Ukrainian missile, it wasn't even in Ukraine. There was no fault for Ukraine, which

is peculiar because as Matthews pointed out, the international community does not blame Ukraine for this event. It points the finger of blame very

firmly in Russia. Ironically, it may even result in an improved level and greater volume of surface to air missiles for the defense of Ukraine coming

in from those countries around -- particularly Western Europe who haven't yet contributed in that way, because, of course, any more of these

accidents and things couldn't get much more dangerous with the danger of sucking NATO further into a conflict with Russia directly.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, and we heard NATO committing, pledging to increase their defense systems as a result of this attack. Sam Kiley live for us there in

Kryvyi Rih, thank you.

Well, the Kremlin has praised Washington's reaction, saying it was restrained and professional compared to statements from Poland and other


Our team is covering the fallout from this incident. Let's start with our Melissa Bell.


MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Melissa Bell at NATO headquarters in Brussels, a real determination on the part of the NATO secretary general

today to try to calm things down. Jens Stoltenberg speaking after a meeting of NATO ambassadors this morning in response to that missile landing in

Poland, explaining that even as the investigation gets underway, the preliminary analysis suggests that it is a missile defense system launched

from Ukraine that was to blame.


This, of course, as he tried to urge calm on all sides, Jens Stoltenberg, but also, the American defense secretary who held a virtual meeting later

with a Ukraine contract group, both took pains to explain that what mattered was that NATO maintain its unwavering support to Ukraine in the

shape of more help, specifically in building up its defense systems.


The Biden administration says that there is no reason to doubt the polish preliminary assessment that it was a Ukrainian air defense missile that

they say, unfortunately landed in Poland. According to the U.S. secretary of defense, Lloyd Austin, that is in line with the information that the

U.S. has. He said that American investigators are on the ground in Poland helping polish counterparts figure out exactly what happened, and that he

will let the investigation play out before saying anything more definitively.

What is clear, Austin said, is that Russia ultimately bears responsibility. President Joe Biden had been in Bali, Indonesia for the G20 summit and

after convening in an emergency meeting, he said it was unlikely that the missile had originated in Russia.

Meanwhile, the top U.S. general defended previous comments about possible peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, saying that with winter

approaching and Russia on its heels, there will be a slowdown he said in the fighting which could provide a window for a possible political



MACFARLANE: Kira Rudik is a member of the parliament and he joins me now live from here in London.

Thank you for your time this evening.

I would like to begin with those comments from your President Zelenskyy saying that he was in no doubt that the missile that landed in Poland and

killed two people was fired by Russia. This appears to be complicating matters for you and your allies as it contradicts statements of NATO,

Poland, and U.S. that we've been hearing today.

What evidence does Ukraine have to back up the statements from President Zelenskyy?

KIRA RUDIK, UKRAINIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Hello, thank you very much for having me. First of all, I would refrain on declaring evidence or anything

that has anything to do with the investigation. Let's wait for the definitive answers and for these statements from the commission that is

looking into that. What is important here is that we won the world that something like this may have been. Russia has fired over 100 muscles over

our territory yesterday, over 100 missiles.

So, of course, there have been different situations. It could've been Russian missiles or ours, protection of ourselves, our attempt to save

ourselves and to stay alive.

We are right now fighting for our existence. We are trying to protect ourselves from 100 of bombs and for missiles that are coming there to kill

us and everything that we love. So, this is why it is so, so important that no matter what the investigation will show, the response will be clear.

The response should be only one, give Ukraine more air force protection systems. Give us an ability to protect ourselves and protect our neighbors.

Give us an ability to continue. What we are seeing right now is even when a small percentage of rockets are hitting the targets, the results are


The results are driving us into a cold and dark winter, that we don't know how many people will survive.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and it's important as you say to remember the backdrop in which this happened. On Tuesday, the barrage of missiles on based on


I appreciate you saying that you want to refrain from commenting before the investigation is over. But that is not what your president has done. He has

moved to speak on this already as an investigation is underway.

He's also pushing, we understand, for Ukraine's own investigation, saying that he wants to see all data connected to that missile strike. We know

that there is an investigation already underway by polish authorities, and U.S. experts are on the ground. So why would Ukraine seek their own

investigation of the stage?

RUDIK: I think, again it is important that -- they have been supporting us throughout this war, we are working as one team. There are representatives

from Ukraine. There are representatives from everybody involved in this commission. Let's wait until the results of this commission are published

and then let's comment on that.


MACFARLANE: What response would you like to see from NATO allies to this? I understand the investigation is under way and we have not yet gotten the

full facts. What response do you hope to see from NATO and Western allies to what has occurred?

RUDIK: No matter, if it was Russian rocket, no matter if it was an attempt of Air Force protection systems of Ukraine to protect ourselves. The

response should be the same. We need sophisticated air force protection systems because this is the only way for us to prevent something like this

from happening in the future.

No matter what caused at this time. We need an ability to close our skies ourselves. No matter what you do, how great you are, how hard you are

fighting, there is absolutely nothing that you can do to stop the huge pile of metal that is coming from the sky to kill you and everybody that you


So, the only way for us is to get the systems in place, to get jets, to get air force protection systems, they will protect our skies and protect our


MACFARLANE: That I believe is something that he pledged to do today, to increase air defense systems.

Kara Rudik, unfortunately we will have to leave there. It's very good to speak to you again this evening. Thank you for your time.

Now, Donald Trump has launched his 2024 campaign for the White House. But his big announcement isn't getting the fanfare he may have expected. The

twice impeached former president is looking to serve another term after he refused to accept defeat in 2020 and incited an insurrection. Some fellow

Republicans blame him for the party's losses in recent midterm elections. It is time to move on.

Even "The New York Post" who traditionally supportive of Trump buried the story. The bottom line on its cover says, a Florida man makes announcement

page 26.

Let's bring in CNN's Steven Collinson in Washington.

Stephen, conservative media clearly having a bit of fun with this today, but underpinning all of this is a pretty serious question because after the

failure of the Trump in the midterms and with the string of lawsuits against Donald Trump. Why should the world care about him running once


STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, I think if you look at what is happening when Trump was making his announcement last night at

his beach resort in Mar-a-Lago. The current president of the United States, Joe Biden, was multiple time zones away, surrounded by American allies

trying to stop the war in Ukraine spiraling out of control after that explosion of a missile across the border in Poland.

That was the kind of leadership that the world didn't see from Donald Trump who tried to drive allies apart. He was very hostile to NATO, who was much

more comfortable in the company of dictators than American allies.

So, when Donald Trump left office, there was a sigh of relief from many democratic world leaders, especially after what happened with the Capitol

insurrection. When Joe Biden told him that America is back, they wanted to believe it and they welcomed it.

Yet, at the same time, they were a little skeptical. The reason they were skeptical is because of what happened last night. Donald Trump was

basically trying to win the presidency again if he has a second term. It is likely to be even more disruptive, not just in the United States, but

around the world. His America first philosophy will again crash with the traditional expectations of the rest of the world has for American

leadership. There are many people who thought if Trump had gotten a second term that he would try to pull you not say that NATO.

You can just imagine what implication that would have had for the situation we have seen with the Ukraine War and the Western alliance uniting against

the Russians.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, given all that has transpired, it is unthinkable, isn't it?

Stephen Collinson, thanks for your analysis. Appreciate it.


MACFARLANE: All right, coming up, Brazil's president elect Lula da Silva vows to put climate at the forefront of his agenda. But he might face harsh

opposition at home.

Plus, with many decades ago until the island of Tuvalu is submerged due to climate change. The country looks for a digital solution.



MACFARLANE: Welcome back. Let's take a look at the other key stories making international impact today.

Iranian media reported that three more protesters have been given the death sentence. The report quoted the country's judiciary as saying the crimes

included intentionally killing a police officer and setting a government building on fire. Five protesters have now been given the death sentence

which the report says can be appealed.

Internally displaced people are fleeing a camp in the Democratic Republic of Congo as clashes between and 43 rebels and the army moved closer to the

city. Crashes in the region resumed last week and in a week of relative calm, rebels launch their latest offensive in late October.

The first doses of an Ebola trial vaccine or make their way to Uganda. The World Health Organization says the vaccines will be given to 3,000 people

who have come into contact with Ebola. The country has almost 150 confirmed cases.

Now, Tesla CEO Elon Musk has taken a stand in a Delaware court to justify a compensations plan that helped make him the world's richest person. The $50

billion package was approved by Tesla's executives who have defended their decision in the first of their two-day testimony. Meanwhile, Musk is under

scrutiny after how he is managing another company, Twitter. He reportedly ordered employees to accept the hard core work culture or leave.

CNN's Clare Sebastian has more on Musk's work attitude.


ELON MUSK, TWITTER OWNER AND CEO: I'm really working the most amount I can work from morning until night, seven days a week.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Speaking from the room that he said had lost power, Elon Musk detailing the impact of his new

power, as Twitter's owner and CEO.

MUSK: I have too much work on my plate, that is for sure.

SEBASTIAN: Touting his personal work ethic and then telling staff in a memo shortly after that they need to commit to, quote, extremely hard core

work or leave, it's a pattern fro Musk.

MUSK: Last time I was here, I stepped on the floor because the couches are too narrow.

SEBASTIAN: In 2018, he told CBS News that he had been sleeping in his California factory while trying to fix production problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is pushing people to limit that most of us would consider fair.


If you look back at Tesla and SpaceX, what he's asking people to accomplish under tight deadlines is something we don't even know if it is technically


SEBASTIAN: To say Musk is a culture shock for Twitter's staff, the half of them that he did not fire, would be an understatement. Having mandated 40

hours a week in the office for Tesla staff this June, he is now canceled much of Twitter's work from home policy, which just eight months ago

allowed employees to work from home forever if they wanted.

MUSK: I present to you the cybertruck.

SEBASTIAN: Musk seems to thrive on disruption, promising to do a lot of dumb things at Twitter in the first few months. And some would argue,

already delivering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's mania mixed with chaos. It's hard to imagine where it goes from here.

SEBASTIAN: Others argue that Twitter, a company that took 12 years to turn it on your profit might benefit from Musk brand of experimentation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to remember that must come from a culture of SpaceX where he built in culture there, it is acceptable for $100 million

rocket to explode and you can move on and build another one the next day. If you come from that kind of environment, messing up a check mark on

Twitter is honestly not a big deal I think from their eyes.

MUSK: It is important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport.

SEBASTIAN: Beyond the chaos, Musk is a leader known for his desire to change the world.

ANNOUNCER: Lift off.

SEBASTIAN: And for having some success doing it.

MUSK: I think it is important for there to be an inclusive arena for free speech.

SEBASTIAN: His vision for Twitter, a company tried to back out of buying, may prove his most divisive yet.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.


MACFARLANE: It certainly hasn't been a dull ten years so far, has it?

Now, Brazilian President-elect Luis Inacio Lula da Silva is back on the international stage. He addressed a cloud of cheering supporters at the

COP27 summit in Egypt on Wednesday. In his speech, Mr. Lula da Silva says countries are ignoring the climate crisis, focusing instead on spending

trillions of dollars on war. He will officially become Brazil's president in January.

Mr. Lula da Silva may have put climate at the forefront of his agenda, but with Brazil's Congress stacked with agribusiness interests, it might not be

an easy fight.

CNN's Paula Newton reports from Sao Paulo, Brazil.


PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To save the planet, Luis Pinto says you don't have to go to the Arctic or even the Amazon. This sky-

high perch will do.

What was once degraded pasture is now after 15 years a eco paradise, two miles of forest restoration.

LUIS PINTO, SOS AMAZONIA: This project doesn't change a big landscape, but it shows it is possible to bring back life, to bring back water, to bring

back biodiversity to the state of Sao Paulo.

NEWTON: Pinto walks us through the effort to revive the Atlantic forest, home to more than 145 million Brazilians and yet, about three quarters of

it has already been wiped out.

This is an effort to bring some of it back and it works like an eco lab, by planting trees, the force provides for clean air and water, bringing back

eco diversity for plants and animals.

PINTO: So, we need a lot of technology, knowledge and research to know which species to plant and how.

NEWTON: Products like these are now at a crossroads of climate and political history in Brazil, a country that is one of the planets most

significant stores about diversity. For four years, the government of President Jair Bolsonaro was accused of undoing the environmental progress

of former president and now president elect, Lula da Silva.

Brazil's National Institute for Space Research estimates that in the Amazon alone, deforestation nearly doubled since Bolsonaro came to office in 2018.

Ricardo Salles was Bolsonaro's environment minister.

To many environmentalists, they are as good as the devil. You're a bad guy.

RICARDO SALLES, FEDERAL LAWMAKER AND FORMER ENVIRONMENT MINISTER: Yeah. You know, people don't understand that what we did was to show that the

solution for environmental challenges in Brazil include, as a main path for the solution, the economic equation.

NEWTON: Salles now speaks as a newly elected lawmaker in a majority conservative Congress in Brazil. His policies are still clearly popular

with many here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was so scared, you know?

NEWTON: Indigenous leader Chaiz Luis (ph) says she and her people have been threatened and harassed when trying to protect Brazil's fragile

environment. She accuses the Bolsonaro government of key dismantling environmental protections.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We don't need to destroy to develop.


We can do that in harmony with nature. And it's the indigenous peoples who teach that.

NEWTON: It is that fundamental struggle along climate action that is so threatens progress in Brazil.

PINTO: We need to understand first as a nation that it is key for the planet, the decisions we make will be an important for us, but also for


NEWTON: And so, watch this space. Brazil's future climate action and its debate over environmental policy will be consequential, far beyond its


Paula Newton, CNN in Sao Paulo state, Brazil.


MACFARLANE: Well, the island nation of Tuvalu is planning to build another version of itself in the metaverse. The island, halfway between Hawaii and

Australia, will replicate islands and landmarks in this new digital version. It is a new way for Tuvalu to preserve its history as rising sea

levels threaten to submerge the nation. As Tuvalu's Foreign Minister Simon Kofe told the COP27 climate summit, it is time for alternative solutions

for his country's survival.


SIMON KOFE, TUVALU FOREIGN MINISTER: As our land is appears, we have no choice but to become the world's first digital nation. Our land, our ocean,

our culture are the most precious assets of our people. To keep them safe from harm, no matter what happens any physical world, we will move them to

the cloud.

Islands like this one won't survive rapid temperature increases, rising sea levels, and droughts, so we will recreate them virtually.


MACFARLANE: You may not notice, he was actually giving a speech from the metaverse of Tuvalu. Zooming out on the virtual island, you can see there

that this is not the first time that he has delivered an unconventional speech at COP26 in 2021. He stood knee-deep in the sea to illustrate how

his country is on the front line of climate change, up to 40 percent of the capital's district is underwater at high tide.

The entire Pacific nation is forecast to be underwater by the end of the century. It is both mind-blowing and tragic, isn't it? We will leave you

with these images.

Thank you for joining us. That was THE GLOBAL BRIEF.

Stay tuned for "WORLD SPORT". That's coming up next.