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Police Officers Shot in Dallas at Protest; Reports of 11 Officers Shot, 4 Killed. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 00:00   ET


[23:59:55] CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: So this is a person of interest, as you can see, they're in camouflage. And they have a rifle strapped slung with a rifle butt sticking up. And we know that rifles were used to enter and kill Dallas officers and a DART officer.

And so if anyone knows or recognizes this picture, please immediately call 911. Do not approach this suspect. We'll bring him to justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are trying to get the number straight. There are ten Dallas police officers that have been shot. Three Dallas police officers that are deceased, one DART officers and four DART officers shot or does that include the ten of the DART?

BROWN: Right. So again, the initial release was we had ten officers shot. One of those officers is a DART officer and they're deceased. Another DART officer was injured but not deceased. There's two Dallas officers deceased. And as I've mentioned to update you from that initial ten we have had an additional officer to bring the total to 11.

Any other questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we also have one civilian who was shot.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wounded or killed?

BROWN: Wounded. Wounded. Any other questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you so much. We'll get back to you guys.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK. There was a press conference by the Dallas police Chief David Brown saying that there are 11 officers shot and he said one of the DART officers is deceased. He said two of them are Dallas police officers that are deceased. That makes up for the three officers there and also saying that there is one civilian that was wounded in this.

What you are looking at now, this is what they're asking for. They want to know who this man is and if you can help identify this man and locate this man in the camouflage shirt with the weapon slung over his shoulder. They believe he is a suspect in all of this and may have, again according to them have helped or committed some of the shootings here. They're also saying that they believe that the suspect may have planted a bomb -- may have planted a bomb. They are asking for the public's help. They're also asking for the FBI's help in locating this man and also trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done for the situation, the bomb situation and so forth.

We have a horrific situation that just happened here. 11 officers shot, three officers dead. No suspects in custody now. They believe that the -- there were two snipers. They believe one of them could have been this gentleman or this gentleman was an actor in some way in this and they are looking for him. They believe that these two snipers shot these officers from elevated positions during these protest rallies.

Another officer -- three officers are in critical condition tonight according to the latest release and from the press conference there with Chief David Brown.

That is the very latest situation happening in Dallas as we look at what is unfolding here and still what is a very active scene and active shooter and active search.

We are speaking to members of law enforcement here on our set, Tom Verni, which is a retired New York City police detective; Neil Franklin, a retired Maryland state police officer; our political commentator Charles Blow is here. He knows people who are at the scene. And then we also have Andre Felix, who is in a hotel in Dallas and also took a picture and is also helping -- police are going to speak to him as well.

Let's talk to Andre Felix. Andre -- this is, this is your picture, this is this man from the back that you turned over to Dallas police. Tell us about your encounter with him. Andre, are you there?

ANDRE FELIX, WITNESS (via telephone): I'm here.

LEMON: Tell us about your encounter with this man. We are looking at your picture now. A shot of him from the back.

FELIX: We didn't say anything to him. We didn't talk to him. We basically -- we just sort of snuck and took the picture because we just thought it was odd that he was standing there in front of us with this huge weapon on him. And so we didn't know if it was safe and like I said we're not from Texas. So we don't know the laws in Texas.

So we took a picture because we just thought it was a little odd. So we'd come to find out, we had this incident going on. And so immediately, I called the Dallas police number or actually dialed 911 first and then shortly thereafter, the detective called me. And I'm waiting on him to come and we're going to speak to him and everything and just basically tell him everything we saw.

LEMON: Yes. Stand by, Andre. I just want to read some information to our viewers who are just joining us. Again, this is a picture -- don't go anywhere. We'll get you back. [00:05:01] This is a picture of a suspect that Dallas police are looking for right at this moment. The police chief David Brown held a press conference just a short time ago and asked for the public's help in locating this man.

Here's what they said at the police department at this press conference. He said, "We believe these suspects were positioned to triangulate the police officers," Dallas Police Department said in the press conference on Thursday. "We are reaching out to the families of all of these officers getting them transport to the hospital. These suspects have threatened to plant a bomb in the downtown area."

They also added that there could be more than two suspects. We do know at least two snipers were elevated in positions at the protest rally march as it ended and they began firing on officers ambush style.

So Andre Felix stand by as John Matthews a former Dallas police officer said coordinated. The police chief backing up what you said, John Matthews.

John is not there? We don't have John. Ok -- we're going to go back to Andre. Andre -- are you still there?


LEMON: Ok. So, Andre, you're going speak with police. You said you did not talk to this gentleman. You did not approach him. Was he engaging with other people, were other people talking to him or was he just sort of on his own standing around?

FELIX: Yes. He was just pretty much on his own standing around, not really talking. And that's another reason why we believe, Don, that you know, he was some way involved in this because everybody that was out there from kids on up to older adults were chatting and participating in the protest.

This guy was just kind of standing around and looking around. And so it just kind of sparked us as odd. And at first like I said we thought that it was a fake gun. And now we find out that it might not have been fake. So it's just kind of scary.

That's why I wanted to contact the Dallas Police Department and I myself have worked in law enforcement just on a different level for the Department of Corrections. And so I just kind of wanted to do what I can to help them out.

LEMON: All right. Stand by, Andre.

I want to bring in my law enforcement guys here. So Neil, when you hear about, you know, planting a bomb. They believe that they planted a bomb. My goodness, this is, if indeed, so well-coordinated.

NEILL FRANKLIN, RETIRED MARYLAND STATE POLICE MAJOR: Yes. But there's one thing that we have to understand that the coordination had to occur within probably the last 24, 36 hours since all of this started to break. What the police are probably focused on right now they have a person of interest.

They are going to be looking for and pulling any kind of video that they can from businesses and locations throughout that area. And we know that there's plenty of cameras and plenty of video in that area.

One of the other things that they should probably do if they haven't already is to put another announcement out to the public to review their photos. A lot of people are taking photos and video.

If this is one of the people, the thing to do next is to link him to other people. Do we see him talking to other people? Once we identify him, if we can get a name for this individual, this is why it is important for the public to come forward. If we can get a name we can even do research for phone records to see if he has a cell phone.

Then we can pull that record and get a subpoena for those records which will happen very quickly and then start identifying numbers that he may have called or that may have called him. And then start tying other people to this individual.

So the police are already on this. This is the type of work that they're doing and they're going to try to do it very quickly because if there is in fact -- I hope it is not -- but if there is in fact some sort of explosive device somewhere planted somewhere or they plan to do it we need to get on top of that really quickly.


They didn't say Tom Verni how they knew, did they, that the suspects had threatened to plant a bomb in the downtown area? Did they say that?


LEMON: Did you hear that, Neil?

FRANKLIN: I did not hear that and what would be interesting is how they would come across this information if they did not in fact apprehend anyone yet.

LEMON: Tom, would it be surprising to you if they said we know there were at least two snipers but they also said that there could be more than one -- maybe, you know, two or three other people involved in this?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: Well, I would hope that there is not more people involved in this. We're talking about -- they're talking about two so far that they were looking for. And then also by the way, they also were reporting that there was a civilian that was shot as well.

[00:10:08] You know, people at this point, this is an emergency situation. You know, people need to, you know -- there's going to be time to break down what happened in these two previous police-involved shootings in Baton Rouge and also in Minnesota. And there's going to be time to extrapolate what happened in those scenarios and break it down and see where we go in those scenarios.

This is an emergency situation not only for Dallas but also all these other cities that are having these protests right now. Police are going to be on alert but then people should be on alert as well.

Because if you have people attending these protests that are hell bent on doing damage to the police they are not going too particular where the bullets are flying and they're hurting other bystanders with the police or around the police.

So people need to be aware and like this gentleman did, taking pictures of things that don't look right to them and reporting it immediately to the police. This way they can, you know, stop this potentially before more damage is done.

LEMON: The picture you're looking at on your screen is the person who Dallas police want to get in touch with. They're trying to figure out or at least they want to identify him and figure out -- locate him and figure out where he is and bring him in because they believe that he had something to do with the shooting of these 11 officers in Dallas, Texas three of them now dead.

Charles Blow is a "New York Times" columnist. Van Jones mentioned something earlier Charles. He said now there is a climate of fear in the country with all of this going on and sadly so.

CHARLES BLOW, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I mean, as everybody I think on the panel has been saying before we have to figure out who these guys are and what their motives are and what have you. But if this in fact somehow associated or connected with the protest it marks a significant ratcheting up of tactic.

You know, the way that we have seen previous police shootings they are almost random in a way, someone with a handgun. Even the cases you were mentioning before in New York City it was one guy and a handgun.

This is a different sort of thing which makes you really want to know who they are and how they did this. It's a coordinated attack, long guns. In Texas, you could see somebody being able to get into an area like this with guns because it's an open-carry state. People show up with guns like that.

I was just in Dallas two blocks away from where this happened. I understand that terrain and I also understand Texas in that way. But if this is connected in any way, whatever it is, we know it's a mass shooting. And if it's connected in any way to kind of retribution, it is a significant ratcheting up and that is -- that's something that we as all Americans have to worry about.

Like, how do we live in an environment where everybody -- where there is mistrust or there is animosity to this kind of level that someone for whatever reason would target police officers in this way and do this much damage.

LEMON: Areva Martin, an attorney, I wanted to talk about the legal part of this. Listen, when you injure a police officer and especially if you kill a police officer, you're not going to see the light of day.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Yes. We're talking about some very serious charges whenever and hopefully they will find these two suspects. It's just ironic Don that we were here, started the show talking about the shooting in Baton Rouge and the shooting in Minnesota and what that meant for the country and how the President was asking us all to have empathy.

And literally as we are having that conversation on your show we are watching this horrific police shooting. The violence, the level of violence that family members and all of us in the public are being subjected to is just really unthinkable.

I just want to say as much as our heart is breaking for these police officers and their families it's so important what you keep reiterating is that we don't know the connection if any between the protesters. When we look at the protesters -- and I have been at some of these protests; there are oftentimes women and college students and family members and grandmas and grandpas. They are not people typically walking around with assault rifles with the intention to target police officers.

So I think we have to remain very clear about what the facts are as we definitely realize the emergency situation that we find ourselves in and this horrific shooting. But not to in any way mar the peaceful protesters who were out there and hard pressed to suggest that the peaceful protesters are in any way planning this kind of attack that the police officers on the panel have talked about, the level of skill and planning that would be needed to carry out what we've all just witnessed on this show.

[00:15:06] LEMON: Stand by, Areva, I want to get to our affiliate KTVT with some new reporting. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the very least, they want to talk to him, Doug.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ken Melesina (ph) thank you, Ken. I got to go.

Dallas Police Department tweeting now and I'm going the read the tweet to you. It says, "With heavy hearts we are devastated to report that a fourth officer has been killed tonight." Those words are coming from the Dallas Police Department. So four officers now --

LEMON: That was our --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And again we don't know if this means it's one of their officers or not because the chief had in his summation earlier included one DART officer who had died earlier. So I hesitate to tell you in any way that this is either a DART or a DPD officer because there's not a lot of clarity on that.

But the tweet is coming from the Dallas Police Department; again, telling us that a fourth officer has died tonight.

Let's go back to -- here we are at one of the hospital scenes. It's been a massive police presence there, obviously. Family and close friends have been arriving through the night and a very, very heavy police presence that you would well expect in a situation like this one trying to comfort the other as we go through this horrific night here in north Texas, the officers shot.

And we take a look at how this all unfolded tonight as best we know it right now. This information came from the chief just a little a bit ago, Chief David Brown. He said that two snipers were in elevated positions. We believe them to have been in a parking garage that was downtown off Main Street. So they are in elevated positions.

11 officers in all were shot, four of them now -- again that is an updated number -- four of them now deceased. And the chief went out of his way to say there is no question that he believes these shooters planned to injure and in this case, to kill the officers that they were going after tonight.

And yet another situation they have to deal with, the snipers apparently had threatened, they hear, to plant a bomb somewhere downtown. So they have that whole side of this thing to deal with tonight as well as --

LEMON: You are listening to our affiliate KTVT and they're reporting the new information. Now the death toll sadly in Dallas has risen to four officers. And again reading the tweet from the Dallas Police Department "With heavy hearts we are devastated to report a fourth officer has been killed." Dallas PD Department tweet. Again, four officers now dead and 11 officers shot. Not sure if that officer is with the Dallas police or with DART the Dallas Area Rapid Transit.

Pardon me, I'm getting information in my ear. But again, now we're getting word -- this is unbelievable -- four officers now dead at a protest that started off as peaceful. And there is also information out now that there is a video of the suspect from the Dallas morning news and we'll try to get that to you as soon as we get it on.

But again police are looking for the suspect now. There are pictures of him that are out there that they released at the press conference that the Dallas police also tweeted out. We also spoke to a man who saw the suspect in the crowd and sent us a picture of the man.

Again -- there he is right there. Police want to know who he is.

I want to bring in now Ben Ferguson, our CNN political commentator, who lives in Dallas. Ben -- what do you have for us?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via telephone): Yes, there is active shooting that has just taken place in downtown Dallas. And apparently the police have been engaged with at least one of these snipers, individual. But I literally just as I was looking and talking to an individual that is in the area with police, the shots started to ring out.

So there is apparently an active situation there in downtown in this area that we were talking about. If you are looking at right by where this is happening is very close to that DART Station. This is the same area where that picture was taken of that suspect. He was walking in this crowd with the assault rifle over his shoulder.

And, you know, as we were told earlier these individuals shot from an elevated position. You have the horrific news that another police officer has passed away. But there is -- there were active shots, multiple shots that were just fired in that area with police taking cover.

We see SWAT team members who are now going car to car in this area looking in the cars trying to figure out where some of these shots may have come from. This is happening as we speak now. The police helicopters also are spotlighting some of the shorter routes. There are taller buildings in downtown, there are also shorter buildings that are a lot smaller. And they are now spotlighting each one of those rooftops in this area.

[00:20:01] But you could see as everyone just ducked for cover to get out of the way of where -- you know, trying to figure out where these shots are coming from now. This is the first time that we have seen more shots since the beginning of this happened.

LEMON: Ok. Ben -- I want you to stand by. I have a question that I want to ask -- Neill Franklin, are you there?

FRANKLIN: I'm here, Don.

LEMON: Ok, so Neill I want to ask you. They said that these snipers were in an elevated position but then during the shooting or right after, you see the suspect in the crowd. How is that possible? Unless he was just someone else who was involved in the shooting. Do you understand what I'm saying?

FRANKLIN: When I look at the picture, it appears the -- are you talking about the picture that the police put up of --

LEMON: The picture that the police put up. But then there is also video out of the same person. He appears to be in the crowd right after or during the shooting. So I am sort of, you know, flummoxed about how he was in an elevated position and was involved. He could be involved but maybe not in the elevated position part.

FRANKLIN: Yes. And the other thing is, again, we don't know how many people are involved. The police believe that, you know, there was at least two but there's still so much that is unknown.

We don't know if this person is really involved yet. It's a good possibility that he was but we don't know for sure. We won't know until that's confirmed.

But someone's got to know this guy. I mean someone -- I mean people are watching these broadcasts. You're not -- you're obviously not the only network putting this out. Someone's got to know this person. Someone's got to come forward and call that number and identify this person so that we can get to the bottom of this.


FRANKLIN: And as I said before this is an immediate emergency that needs to be dealt with right now.

LEMON: Yes. You know, as we have been saying here, again they just want to talk to this person. We don't know their involvement. They're not saying the involvement but they just -- they asked for -- excuse me -- for the public's help in getting in touch with this person and identifying this person.

And again you can carry a gun, as Charles Blow has said, in Texas.

FRANLIN: Open carry. It's an open-carry state. We have other states that are open-carry. I mean Missouri is open carry. We have protests in Missouri. We have protests all across this country right now. And you know, this is where it really becomes touchy for police officers.

And again I'm going to keep pushing in this that we need leaders to come forward and start speaking on this and start bringing a sense of calm to all of us involved in this, law enforcement side and the citizens and protesters.


You're looking at -- these are pictures that happened earlier -- hang on one second. I'm just getting some information. Let me read this -- just stand by, everyone. Ok.

So again there are reports out there that the brother of the person of interest said his brother is not a suspect. That he handed his long rifle over to a police officer. So we're working to confirm that.

But at any rate, the police in the press conference asked for information on this person and put that out there. So we want to just -- you know, again, we don't know what this person's involvement is in this if there is an involvement at all. But that's it.

But also, there is video -- there's a 45-second video that has some dramatic sound of multiple gunshots. A woman can be heard saying that there are people laying on the ground. I hope they are just hiding followed by more gunshots.

And again if we can get that video up, that video is in the CNN system but that is again from an eyewitness who is on the ground. And we are getting information from all of these eyewitnesses saying that they heard multiple gunshots. That some people thought it was fireworks. They didn't believe it was real at first and then after they -- people started running and they realized it wasn't fireworks and that it was actual gunshots people began hiding and trying to get to safer positions. Some people say that they heard gunshots, you know, of rapid succession of 20 at a time.

Here's the video I just mentioned. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. There are people laying on the ground. I hope they're just hiding.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person with a --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a person with a --


[00:25:13] Oh, my god.


LEMON: Ok. So there we go. That is -- that's what you hear. And that's what was heard in downtown Dallas. Again, this is brand-new video just in to CNN. It's about 45 seconds. Dramatic sound you can hear of multiple gunshots. You -- listen to that. You heard the woman saying there are people lying on the ground, I hope they're just hiding. And then you hear a man saying someone is armed to the teeth. And I'm not sure if this is coming from the snipers or if this is coming from police.

And I don't -- Tom Verni, you can't tell that just from listening to the video -- right.

VERNI: It's hard to tell but there is certainly a lot of fire power going on right there. It's going to be an extremely scary situation for the police and anyone in that area. And people need to be looking in that area as well. If people are in those hotels and in the surrounding area and they see someone on the adjoining rooftop they should be either recording that or calling 911 first and letting the police know where they are at so they have a better idea of where to focus their attention.

LEMON: Ok. So listen, and I also want to say that -- listen, according to the police chief's statements that they believe that the police officers -- that the snipers shot the police officers from elevated positions during the protests. But again they believe that that is what happened.

The information that we got in the beginning of these situations are not necessarily -- doesn't always pan out because it's chaotic situations. But that is information directly from Chief David Brown and a release saying that they believe that the snipers were in elevated positions.

But they're also believing that there could be more than two suspects involved. They also put out a picture and a request to try to find one person. Again, don't know if that person is connected but they just wanted to get in touch with that individual to check him out to see what's going on.

Danny, re-rack this. I want to play this from the beginning. This is what it sounded like in Dallas as this all unfolded. Let's listen to this video. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god there's people laying on the ground. I hope they're just hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Somebody's really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person.


Oh, my god. They can't be --

Oh, my god.

Oh, my god.


LEMON: Ok. A lot of fire power there -- that video just into CNN.

I want to get back to our affiliate KTVT. They are interviewing a father and daughter who were witnesses. Listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell me how it was that you heard about what had happened and then what had happened to your family member?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of her partners called my wife and told her what was going on and that's when we came down here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long has she been with DART and what can you tell us about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know -- five, six, seven years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has she ever been in a scary situation like this before?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Just your normal stuff -- a few fights and stuff but nothing like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much for talking with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, no problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has to be very difficult being here. I'm happy that your mom is ok. So again --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we get your names?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard McBride. And this is Hunter.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 10. LEMON: Ok. So listen -- I'm just assuming here. But they are at the

hospital and they're saying I'm glad that your mom is ok. The mom must be a DART officer because I heard that towards the end saying has she ever been involved in anything like this. The husband said no. But again, this officer is ok.

So officers taken to several different hospitals. The latest information as you can see on the screen, 11 police officers shot, four killed in downtown Dallas tonight in the business district by what police say are targeted snipers they say shot from an elevated position. But again that is the initial information coming in very early. Also asking for the public's help in locating a suspect -- they put out a picture.

[00:30:02] They're also saying that they believe that these suspects may have planted a bomb or bombs and they're asking for the FBI to help, and again asking for the public's help as well.

I am just reiterating what our law enforcement experts are saying here to me on CNN tonight that this is obviously an emergency situation. A horrific situation unfolding in Dallas tonight as there was a protest going on after two police shootings in this country, one in Minnesota, the other one in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

I'm joined now by my panel of experts. Charles Blow is a CNN Political Commentator and Op-Ed Columnist to the New York Times and Neill Franklin is a retired Maryland State Police Major. Areva Martin is an attorney in women's right advocate. And also Tom Burney, a retired New York City Police Detective.

Neill, you heard the fire power in that video that we just received in CNN. To that man's point in the video, someone was armed o the teeth.

FRANKLIN: Well, absolutely. A lot of shots rang out. But one thing we also have to realize in that particular area where we have high- rise buildings. A lot of those shots were echoes that we were hearing. But still, still a lot of fire power, obviously. There is a recent tweet here from the Dallas Police Department. Can I read that to you real quick?

LEMON: Yes, yes go ahead.

FRANKLIN: So it says, "The person of interest whose picture has been circulated, it just turned himself in. Another alleged suspect was in a shootout with Dallas SWAT officers. That suspect is also in custody. A suspicious package was discovered near the suspect's location. The package is being secured by the Dallas police department bomb squad." And they'll provide more information when it's available.

LEMON: OK, thank you Neill. If you put this -- because we didn't get that into my e-mail. Again, I'll send it, I'll read it again.

But according to that, the person who -- the picture was put out by the Dallas police has turned himself in. They believe that there was another suspect involved. Charles, what do you (inaudible)? BLOW: Well, I mean I -- this is why I think it's really important for us to like take a breath here. You know, that was somebody of interest on their part. There's been a lot of videos, social media basically showing this guy on the ground when the shooting broke out. Whether or not he is involved or not, we don't know that. But I think, you know, taking a breath because if he is not -- in fact, because a part of this in any way, was not a shooter in any way. You know, his face just got blasted across everybody's television screens and, you know, and he has a life.

And that, you know, we just want to be careful to make sure that this person is actually involved in this when we, you know, and how we frame the discussions around him. And in fact, the second part of this that would be very unusual for these sorts of people is that he walks into a police department and turns himself in.

That, you know, it was -- so I just -- I urge a bit of caution.

LEMON: Yes. But also, we should urge in a bit of caution too because that was a police department.

BLOW: Yeah, on their part too.

LEMON: Right. Right.

BLOW: Yes, it's already the bit of caution.

LEMON: Yeah. So listen, let me read the information that we have. Hang on Areva and I'll get to you.


LEMON: So again, this is the information that we have been -- the latest we've gotten in. Again they said, "With heavy hearts we are devastated to report that a fourth officer has been -- has died. The person of interest whose picture has been circulated just turned himself." And he said, "Again, a person of interest. Another alleged suspect was in a shootout with Dallas SWAT officers. The suspect -- that suspect is also in custody. So now we have on person in custody. A suspicious package was discovered near this suspect's location. The package is being secured by Dallas P.D. bomb squad."

So again, in the press conference they said that they were concerned about a possible planted bomb. So they're checking out this suspicious package. They also said that there was no suspect in custody at the time. Now they're saying there is a suspect in custody that was in a shootout with Dallas SWAT officers. And again they are checking that suspicious package. The person of interest whose picture that the police department sent out is also has turned himself in.

Again, they're not saying if he was involved, they're just saying turned himself in and now they are saying that there are four officers who are dead, 11 shot. Areva go ahead.

MARTIN: Yeah, I was just going to say Don, consistent with what Charles is saying in terms of being cautious about the statements that we may give and how little information we have. What we haven't heard from the Dallas police is making any connection between these shooters and the peaceful protests. And we know that their protests planned around the country tomorrow and maybe even into the weekend with respect to the shooting in Baton Rouge and the shooting in Minnesota.

[00:35:03] And we just want to make sure that the people who are engaging in peaceful protests are not in any way being attached to whoever is involved in the heinous crimes that were committed tonight. And I think all of us in this, the civil rights community, you know, we want to see those people who shot these officers, brought to justice. We want the justice to be swift and we want them to be held accountable.

But we also know that those protest that are going to take place tomorrow and the next day, know those people needs to be able to do so in a peaceful way and not have these criminals and these criminal acts in any way tomorrow or taint those protests.

LEMON: OK, Areva thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I want to get to Ben Ferguson now who lives in Dallas and joins us now by phone, Ben, what do you know?

FERGUSON: Yeah, the -- we keep talking about this suspect. The picture was given out by the police department ...

LEMON: Person of interest.

FERGUSON: ... yes, the person of interest, yeah. He apparently -- what I was told from one person across (ph) believes that he actually at the shooting took place, handed his gun over to the police early on in the night to make it clear, he was not involved in it because he obviously having that gun along riffle which he was not breaking the law of carrying that gun in Texas, with the laws that we have in Texas.

And his brother has come out and now videos have come out of him running apparently while the -- when the shots were taking place. That what we also have been told is that the hospital -- Baylor hospital, there was a police car that was actually taken there with one of the policemen in it and it had a higher and apparently bullet holes in that police car.

We just heard about obviously moment ago about SWAT teams that -- with this one suspect they've taken in. But the mayor came out, made it very clear and the police director as well that they are still looking for another suspect or suspects. And if you know anything they're now just saying ahead of a tip line but just call 911.

To put this in perspective about how chaotic is Downtown and why that police director may have had that press conference. When, you know, with the suspect even though other policemen may have known that he gave his gun over to the police, there is so much chaos right now Downtown that game wardens have even been called there to help set up a perimeter in Downtown. This is the most - I think, shocking display of cooperation among police time with this local police and the FBI. Rarely, we have game wardens that are coming in. You have guards (ph) that is coming in here. Anyone that is in law enforcement with a badge basically has come to the scene and is actively taking part in trying to find this individual.

Where -- I've been able to watch 20 plus SWAT officers that were helping going car to car with their guns drawn, lights on, looking in the windows of cars in the Downtown area. They really -- and this is such an active situation that they're saying anybody that can help. We don't care if you are game warden, please come help us and they're now being involved in part of this as they're continuing to bring in these SWAT teams in the area where this, you know, where this package was found and trying to secure that area where this one gunman was found as well.

LEMON: Yeah.

FERGUSON: So, it is definitely far -- unfortunately far from over at this point.

LEMON: Yeah, and emergency situation obviously happening in Downtown Dallas. There have been 11 police ...

FERGUSON: There's also - in the hospitals, just so you know, whether the Parkland -- Baylor, which is in East Dallas. We are still seeing the gurneys that are in the entry way there with not only law enforcement out protecting, I think that you could say the nurses and the doctors are protecting the area because that's concerned (ph) of what may come in. But rarely do you see police officers in a defensive standpoint at a hospital waiting for possible people to come in.

LEMON: OK, and you can see just the amount of force out in Dallas tonight, as you were talking about officers going door to door and asking for anyone who can help them to come in and help them game wardens.

So listen, I have to say we have the two suspects in custody. What I understand, there is one suspect does in custody and then a person of interest has turned himself in.

FERGUSON: Correct.

LEMON: So, yes. One person of interest has turned himself in and then one other person in custody, one suspect -- alleged suspect in a shootout with Dallas police.

So listen, and this is -- this appears to be live pictures on the interstate in Dallas again from KTVT. Ben Ferguson, do you recognize where this is, can you see it right now?

FERGUSON: Yes, there's something coming right in out of Downtown Dallas there. [00:40:02] If you can see there, you're looking at, you know, Ann Arbor Street that is one of the signs there. So this is very closer proximity to Downtown. And if you look in front of this police cars, I think moment ago when they zoomed that on a sooner on the cameras but there is one car that was a none police car in front of them. So I don't know if this was, you know, some sort of possible chase. But as you can see that camera is zooming back there, in near Ann Arbor Avenue.

I mean this is ride in the heart of the Down -- and merely, this would be one of the easy ways to get out of Downtown. One of the things about Downtown Dallas and the reasons this is -- I'm sure they were trying to put out a perimeter office. You can go to Houston. You can go to Oklahoma. You can go through into Arkansas. You can also go out farther deeper into Texas from the major intersections coming in whether it be 30 or 45 coming in or you can go out to Fort Worth.

So in this area literally there's probably four different ramps that you could take within 30 seconds of where the shooting took place and head off to the any part, north, west, east, south in the America without having to find your way on to an expressway. And it's right there easy access. The army that you show on pictures of earlier could tell. That is the convention center right there and the reason they built that there was because it was the center point for people we have to travel in from.

LEMON: This is -- I hear a person -- excuse me of interest or a suspect that police were pursuing in. So we don't know exactly, know the circumstances behind that. But that's what we're hearing from our affiliates there on the ground there. Stand by Ben Ferguson. I want to get to Anthony May, a retired ATF Explosives Enforcement Officer. Anthony, hi, you're there, right? Can you hear me?


LEMON: I want to play this video for you because -- and talk to you about the fire power here and also talk to you about the suspicious package which officers believe may have been a bomb. But first, let's play this video of the actual gunshots in Downtown Dallas tonight.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, there's people laying on the ground. I hope they're just hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just one person. This is a person with ...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God. (inaudible) they can't be firing. Oh my God.




LEMON: OK, so Anthony May, talk to me about the fire power and then the suspicious package discovered near the suspect that is been -- that was a shootout with police with the suspect in Custody with the shootout with SWAT officers. There's a suspicious package discovered near the suspect's location and it's being secured by the Dallas P.D. Bomb Squad. So you got the SWAT team with one person. You got lots of fire power there and then you have bomb squad. Walk us through this.

MAY: Well, the initial shot that you were hearing in that video, the first one or two shot sounded like obviously a long gun, somebody is taking precision shot. The only problem we've got with analyzing that there in this Downtown setting or on the building, you've got echoes. You got noise distortion. So -- but definitely a long gun -- but then as the video progresses, you have the rapid fire, probably a semiautomatic rifle of some type, assault weapon if you want to go that route.

As far as suspicious package when officers are taking fire like this anything becomes suspicious especially if it still located with the suspect or someone of interest, so it's going to be exploited. The only problem is now we've got a bomb squad working under conditions that are -- where they're taking fires. So the SWAT team did not provide cover and they will be exploiting that package, probably not in their normal routine manner. I would suspect that they are going to violently rip the package open with some of their disrupting tools, other disrupting tools in order to not be on target and be out in the open for any other sniper type fire.

LEMON: I want to update our viewers right now. Anthony, don't go anywhere because again we have 11 officers shot. We have four officers dead here. We also have information from the Dallas Police Department. The Dallas Police Department tweeted in a statement and this is from them, "The person of interest whose picture has been circulated just turned himself in, another rely (ph) suspect was in the shootout with Dallas -- a shootout with Dallas SWAT officers." That suspect is also in custody.

[00:45:02] A suspicious package was discovered near the suspect's location. The package is being secured by the DPD bomb squad. And I should tell you that Cnn is aware of local media reports saying the man in the photo tweeted by Dallas P.D. earlier this evening is not involved in the shooting.

We're aware of local media reports saying the man in the photo tweeted by Dallas P.D. earlier in the evening is not involved in the shooting.

CNN has not confirmed these reports again. So, we should -- we just want to be transparent and let you know what we know at this hour, again a very fluid situation.

You see, the law enforcement, they are out on the interstate in Dallas, Texas, also law enforcement coming a big chunk of Downtown Dallas.

The buses and the trains, the rail service has been halted in Downtown Dallas at this hour. They're still looking for the possibility of other suspects and the possibility of a bomb. And we're talking to Ismael DeJesus now, who has been hold up in his hotel at one point hiding in the basement of the hotel and now has been allowed to his room and at one point also going to speak to Dallas police.

What's going on with you now, Ismael?


LEMON: That's Andre Felix before -- stand by Ismael, sorry pardon me. I'm getting my guests confused. So, that was Andre Felix before. Ismael, what's going on with you? Pardon me.


LEMON: What's going on with you Ismael?

DEJESUS: Right now we're just in our hotel room right now. Well everyone is here. Honestly I just -- I got up from the bed, I just went outside and saw this man clear as day shooting around aimlessly.

It was complete mayhem. There's people running all over the intersection on the grid (ph) and the other was anyone, you know, dead bodies out there. But I can confirm as well that that man that was shown on that picture, you know, on CNN was not the guy that I filmed shooting. They're on ground.

LEMON: So you have video of someone shooting, right?

DEJESUS: Yes, sir.

LEMON: All right, let's put it up and then we'll talk. Let's play it.


DEJESUS: There, he was shooting into (inaudible) like an officer right side. There was a ...


DEJESUS: Bro, my God, my God, what is going on right there, man?

LEMON: OK. Again, so Ismael the -- this is the guy that you see at the center of your screen, right? It's kind of hard to tell. The guy you see at the center of the screen is the shooter?

DEJESUS: Oh yes, yes. LEMON: So between the two poles if we can view.

DEJESUS: Yeah. He's in between the two pillars.

LEMON: OK. Is the -- does he appear -- yeah what we are seeing here, were there other officers engaging him?

DEJESUS: No. There was just one single officer came across Elm Street from the parking lot, came by himself, hid behind one of the pillars. The assailant was safe into the left in video. And he wasn't able to hit him so the assailant bend turned around, opened fire and barely shot the officer. And I mean it was devastating to watch, you know.

Oh my God, my God, what is going on right.

LEMON: OK. If you're just joining us, Ismael DeJesus is on the phone now. Shot video of the shooter. And let's re-rock this. Ismael don't go anywhere. This is very important. We're going to play it from the beginning again. This is very graphic but we want you to watch it, so here it is.

[00:50:24] DEJESUS: Man, that's pretty hard to watch, you know. I do want to say this, you know, this was a really, really unfortunate event. And I really don't think that, you know, social equality should be dealt in this matter.

I know I'm live and I just want to put that out there. It's my personal opinion. I don't think this was the best way that I mean, you know, this community can make a point towards, you know, there are some movement.

I'm all abort (ph), social equality, you know, protests, you know, freedom of speech, but this is not the way to do it. This was -- this is truly, you know, this was a tragedy. This is nothing less than a terrorist attack, honestly. I mean, that's my personal opinion. I know I've been ...

LEMON: No, listen, you're free to say that. And you know, that's your opinion. And having shot this video I just want you to walk us through it again. Because it's, you know, it's not shot in the format that would make it clear on television.


LEMON: So, explain to our viewers what we're seeing how close to the officer? Were the shooter was really where the officer was?

DEJESUS: OK. Basically came out to the balcony. I did heard popping sounds, I did think it was a fireworks but first came out a man had a rifle, AR-15 clear as day, pretty big magazine. And you could see toward the end of the video here, he goes and drops the few mags.


LEMON: This is him behind the railing next to the column, correct? DEJESUS: Yes. This is him to the right here, to the right of that

white pillar. You know, shooting to the left goes head turns around and shoots to the right, shoot on the other side of the pillar. He honestly -- he was shooting at something and aiming at somebody. Then he may now turned around and checked his, you know, his back and make sure there's no one was coming.

But the officer did come across the right side of the screen to that pillar to the right. And tried to take him on one on one in the fire fight and it didn't end very well. And it's very -- it was just very tragic.

LEMON: And that's the officer getting shot right there?

DEJESUS: No. I didn't get video of the officer getting shot. That is the officer down right there. It was -- it looked like an execution, honestly.

He stood over him after he's already down. Shot him maybe three to four more times in the back.

So at that point I didn't know if he is confirmed dead or anything, obviously. But he was down for about five more minutes until anybody could some get to him.

LEMON: So, how clearly could you -- how far away from the suspect were you? And how clearly could you see him?

DEJESUS: I don't know, maybe about 50 yards.

LEMON: What did he look like?

DEJESUS: Honestly in the video, I don't know the exact skin color. I can't, you know, draw that out there. But he did have some tactical pants on. He got a tactical green shirt on.

I honestly don't know what race he was. I can't, you know, just draw out a race out there. But it did look planned. I mean, he just parked then he knew where to stand and opened fire. He had ammo ready. He's ready to go.

LEMON: Is this his car with the flashers?

DEJESUS: I'm so -- yeah, that's his Chevy Tahoe right there, the white model Chevy Tahoe. So, he just got out of there, walked over to the pillar, put a magazine in, and he was ready and started firing.

LEMON: And where does he go afterwards? Did he drive away in the car?

DEJESUS: No. Afterwards what he did after he killed the policeman he walked over to the right of the screen around the corner and went up. He went west down Elm Street towards El Centro College down that alley over there.

So, after that I just got live on Facebook and just -- and was just going on from there. I didn't get anything else. I didn't get them on video.

LEMON: Was he standing over? Was it execution style?

DEJESUS: I would say so. He -- when he shot the officer first, officer was clearly down, he was already, you know, he was already down.

[00:55:09] And stood over him again and just popped another three, four rounds into him and that was honestly, it was very, very disturbing to watch.

LEMON: I mean, it's just unbelievable that you caught this on videotape and I'm sure it was just a surreal moment for you.

DEJESUS: Yeah, it was on -- it was troubling, you know, it came already, you know, till, you know, this vacation, a few days off and, you know, I wanted to, you know, relax and I'm going tomorrow morning to work. I was hoping, you know, get a night's rest and, you know, some like this happens. It was definitely -- it was definitely troubling.

LEMON: Yeah. So you said and I'm going to read what you said to our producers, OK and then you can also walk me through it.


LEMON: You're staying at a hotel at Downtown. I don't want to say what hotel you're staying in. Don't say that.


LEMON: You heard the shooting, you started filming. You said that the shooter had lots of 30 round magazines, correct?

DEJESUS: Yeah, I mean, that's -- I mean, no, that's my guesstimate. They weren't, you know, short mags. They were -- they're definitely, you know, high capacity magazines.

LEMON: So, meaning that you see, they were falling out of his pocket?

DEJESUS: Yeah, he dropped about two of them. You can see at the end of the video, dropped two of them coming out of his pocket. He did have multiple pockets, you can't see in the resolution of the video but he did have about three or four pockets coming down the front of his pants.

LEMON: You said it looked like he was wearing body armor.

DEJESUS: Yeah, he did, definitely he was like he's wearing something underneath his shirt. The police officer did shoot him in the back but it did not faze him. Say, they literally, he just turned around and shot the officer like nothing ever happened. So, that can only assume there unless he was a really, really big guy that he had some kind of body armor underneath that t-shirt.

LEMON: You said that you watched an officer sneak up behind the shooter and then watched the shooter turn around and shoot the officer multiple time?

DEJESUS: Yes, sir, yeah. He came up behind this from the right pillar, the pillar just to the right of him and was hiding with his back with the pillar, turned around and shot about three shots maybe hit him with one. The assailant turn right around same around the corner. The officer thought he came around the other side of the pillar. That's when he caught officer from the back and shot the officer.

LEMON: At first, you say the guy was shooting wildly. Was he just shooting randomly or was he aiming directly for that officer?

DEJESUS: When I stepped out to the balcony, he was shooting into the intersection, shooting into a parking lot but then he directed his fire, obviously some police officers where on the corner over there on the left side, it was from the video and he started directing his fire that way. So maybe he was trying to get, you know, commotion going for, you know, to get the cop's attention. This is -- that is all speculation, obviously but that's from what I gathered from it.

LEMON: And how long before other officer showed -- other officers showed up to help, correct?

DEJESUS: Oh it was quick. I would say about after the fire -- the shooting started maybe about two, three minutes honestly, if that.

LEMON: Unbelievable. If you're just tuning in, I'm on the phone with Ismael DeJesus. He was in a hotel across from one of the -- where one of the officers was shot. He's on the phone with us live and you see his video up there now and he's describing to us what happened. Let's take you back to the beginning of this video. Again it's difficult to watch and listen to and then we'll continue our conversation with Ismael DeJesus. Play it.

OK. Everyone, if you are just joining us, it is 1:00 a.m. Eastern Time. I'm Don Lemon live in New York.