Return to Transcripts main page
The Amanpour Hour
Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador To Russia John Sullivan; Interview With Jordanian Queen Rania Al Abdullah; Interview With NASA Administrator Bill Nelson; Haiti's Historical Cycle Of Violence And Poverty; Interview With Playwright Ryan Calais Cameron. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired March 16, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:59:46]
(CROSSTALKING)
KARA SWISHER, PODCAST HOST, "PIVOT" & "ON": He's controversial.
REIHAN SALAM, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: He's gotten a lot of support by being unconventional, by being someone who is leveraging celebrity culture. And I think that this is something that Donald Trump is going to have to think very hard about because if you've got Kennedy and Rodgers as the ticket, there is going to be so much media attention on this, so much buzz --
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: Just quickly because we're running out of time.
Are you serious about this? Because I find this preposterous.
SALAM: I think it's going to happen and I think Kennedy thrives on people like us finding him preposterous.
(CROSSTALKING)
WALLACE: Gang, thank you all for --
SWISHER: Still not going to win the Super Bowl. Still not going to win the Super Bowl.
WALLACE: -- gang thank you all for being here.
Thank you for spending part of your day with us and we'll see you right back here next week
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone, and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.
Here's where were headed this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Nuclear saber-rattling and election engineering, Putin tightens his grip as Russia's longest-serving leader since Stalin. Then air drops, aid and the humanitarian disaster in Gaza, my
exclusive interview with Queen Rania of Jordan.
QUEEN RANIA AL ABDULLAH, QUEEN OF JORDAN: Israel experience one October 7th. Since then, the Palestinians have experienced 156 October 7th.
AMANPOUR: Then U.S. marines and hundreds of millions of dollars to bring Haiti back from the brink of civil war, flashback to the 90s in this unending cycle of poverty and violence.
Also, this hour Martians wanted: NASA administrator Bill Nelson on new Red Planet recruits and Elon Musk's exploding rockets.
And finally, the smash hit West End play that meditates on being young and black in Britain.
RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, PLAYWRIGHT: There is still resentment that need to be told for people that look like me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone.
I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
In Russia this weekend an election that's more of a rubber stamp on Putin's eternal presidency. He'll get another six years after being in power since 2000. He's already second only to Stalin's 30-year dictatorship. But listen to the Putin the world first met.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of the mass media, rights of the owners. These fundamental components of any civilized society will be reliably protected by the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: None of those freedoms exist in Putin's Russia today. And any real opposition to him or his war in Ukraine have been brutally crushed, both inside and outside the country.
Just this week, the late Russian opposition leader, Alexey Navalny's chief of staff was attacked in exile in Lithuania. And this is a Putin who may very well win his struggle with the West on the Ukrainian battlefield, thanks to Trump's MAGA force in Congress denying Ukraine the ammunition and weapons it desperately needs.
I spoke with John Sullivan America's ambassador to Moscow under Presidents Trump and Biden when the country invaded Ukraine just over two years ago. He's currently a partner at Mayer Brown and he's the author of the forthcoming book, "Midnight in Moscow".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Ambassador John Sullivan, welcome back to our program.
JOHN SULLIVAN, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: Thank you, Christiane. Good to be with you today.
AMANPOUR: So, it's great to talk to you as we have this shifting dynamic on the Ukrainian battlefield and as Putin has his elections this weekend.
I want to start by asking you about something he told Russian television this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN: From a technical point of view, of course, we are ready. They are constantly combat-ready.
Our triad, the nuclear triad, is more modern than any other triad, and it's only us and the Americans who have such triads. In general, if we talk about the carriers and the number of warheads, we're more or less equal. But ours are more modern. Everyone knows that. All specialists know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So Ambassador, how concerned are you that Putin keeps talking about having the upper hand in the nuclear domain, and even though he's not threatening to use them he kind of still dangles that threat?
SULLIVAN: Yes, Christiane. He's been doing this for years. If you'll recall back when he was running for re-election the last time in 2018, he spoke in front of a video, a cartoon, that showed a Russian missile striking South Florida where then-President Trump, of course, had his Mar-a-Lago club.
He has been rattling the nuclear saber for years. It's been part of his way of dealing with the United States. He's invested a lot of money in his nuclear weapons and particularly in new delivery systems. He has been basically using nuclear blackmail over Ukraine since the start of the so-called military -- special military operation.
[11:04:48]
SULLIVAN: So this is just of a piece with what he's been doing for years. It's how he operates. And in my opinion, it's crazy.
AMANPOUR: So then, because we're talking as this election is underway in Russia, is this an election that anybody should be concerned about?
I mean, we know he's running, Putin unopposed. I mean, the nominal, you know, opposition are just nominal, just to be playing in that game.
But what do you think a convincing claim of a win will mean for him in the situation he finds himself in right now? SULLIVAN: There's no doubt that Putin is going to win. As you say he's running effectively unopposed.
But this election is extremely important for him, for Putin, for Russia, and I would say for the world, for the following reason.
He's been working on this -- this project, getting himself re-elected, despite the Russian constitution's term limits which were in effect until he had the constitution revised in 2020, he's been working on this for years.
Winning re-election -- but here's the key factor from his perspective. It's turnout. He wants to be able to tell the world, show the world, that the Russian people support him. They turned out in large numbers -- 75, 80 percent -- and voted for him.
What the opposition is trying to do is to use that turnout issue against him. And there's been -- you may have seen an organized effort to try to convince those who were opposed to Putin to vote at a particular time on Sunday, noon on Sunday, going to the polls, showing long lines of people at that precise time, as opposed to Putin.
So the election comes down to turnout. Putin wants a large turnout to validate, to claim legitimacy for his rule, because otherwise, he doesn't have legitimacy.
He doesn't have, for example, the communist ideology that the Soviet leaders had. He doesn't have the divine right of rule the way the Czars have. He seeks legitimacy from the Russian people. That's what he really craves.
Otherwise, he would just declare himself president. AMANPOUR: You're a Republican, and you see what Donald Trump
Republicans are doing in Congress about aid to Ukraine. And appearing to actually be throwing their lot in, you know, with Putin rather than the democratic, sovereign, independent Ukraine that the rest of the world -- the western world is supporting.
This is what Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin said recently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): We are now about two years into this bloodbath. And now, we're in a bloody stalemate. And the reality, I think, a lot of my colleagues who are supporting this aid package are ignoring is that Vladimir Putin will not lose this war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Does that worry you? And what will happen if America doesn't step up and if Putin doesn't lose this war?
SULLIVAN: Well, Christiane, this in my opinion, is not -- should not be a partisan issue. The national security of the United States, our foreign policy interests are at stake in Ukraine.
And we can't talk away the risk, we can't wish away the risk, we can't stick our heads in the sand. We tried that twice in the 20th century when there was a war in Europe, before the Great War and before the Second World War and we failed.
This type of conflict in the European continent affects the United States directly particularly when that war has been launched by an autocrat who's launched an aggressive war, virtually identical to the war that Hitler started on September 1, 1939 against Poland. The same rationales were used.
Hitler used the same language that Putin used. He started a war, Hitler, on September 1, 1939 because he claimed that Poles were abusing, were barbaric towards Germans in Poland.
That was his rationale. And he claimed that Poland was going to attack Germany. We've heard Putin say this.
It -- they -- Hitler stood the truth on its head. Putin's done the same thing. He launched a war because he said that the Ukrainians were a bunch of crazed Nazis who were engaged in a genocide against Russians in Ukraine, and that's fantasy.
The U.N. General Assembly, the International Court of Justice, countries that have no association with NATO or the E.U. voted overwhelmingly against Putin's rationales for this war.
So, he's launched an aggressive war on the continent of Europe that affects U.S. allies and the United States directly.
This, it seems to me, should not be a difficult foreign policy and national security issue and it's not an issue that we should be -- it makes no sense to me to say, well, we can't help Ukraine because we need to be spending money to secure our southern border or to do something else.
[11:09:52]
SULLIVAN: Of course, we can do both. This is the United States. We've been able to contain the Soviet Union, prevail in the Cold War.
I mean, what type of backbone do our leaders have now? We're going to allow Putin, the president of Russia, to start a massive war on the continent of Europe, and we don't have the wherewithal or the courage to stand up to him?
I think for Republicans and Democrats, they need to -- think about this, what would Harry Truman or Dwight Eisenhower say? What would Jack Kennedy or Ronald Reagan say? What would they be saying to those senators and members who today are saying we shouldn't support Ukraine?
What they'd be saying is, we should support Ukraine along with our allies and contain and defeat this Russian aggression, period.
AMANPOUR: Ambassador John Sullivan, thank you so much for joining us.
SULLIVAN: Thanks, Christiane.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Strong words indeed.
Coming up later on the show, NASA chief Bill Nelson on what Niagara Falls has to do with space. And the search right now for NASA's next crop of Martians.
But first, my world exclusive with Queen Rania of Jordan on why aid drops in Gaza aren't enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEEN AL ABDULLAH: We cannot save people from hunger only then to bomb them to death. An immediate ceasefire is the number one priority.
[11:11:13]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: They're starving. They're malnourished as a result of the fact that humanitarian assistance can't get to them. It's very difficult to distribute humanitarian assistance effectively unless you have a ceasefire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
That was Biden's point man in negotiations between Israel and Hamas, CIA director Bill Burns on Capitol Hill this week.
With northern Gaza on the brink of famine, the first aid ship is arriving from Cyprus and for the first time in weeks, a U.N. food convoy did manage to reach Gaza City using a new military road. But experts say it is not nearly enough to stem the suffering.
In our exclusive interview, Queen Rania of Jordan tells me how her country is joining U.S. airdrops to a starving population.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Queen Rania, welcome back to our program.
QUEEN AL ABDULLAH: Thank you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Can I first ask you, it is Ramadan, it's just started, and I wonder what your reflections are for yourself, for your family, for Muslims around the world celebrating -- or maybe that's not the right word -- marking Ramadan this year in the middle of this war? QUEEN AL ABDULLAH: Well, you know, Christiane, Ramadan for us is a month of worship, charity, and compassion for our fellow human being. And I think this year, we're welcoming these holy days with very heavy hearts.
Ramadan is typically defined with family gatherings, people coming together, sharing a meal and breaking their fast together.
But what is it like for the people of Gaza today who are now hungry and thirsty in tents or makeshift shelters, who are mourning their dead and mourning the life that they had just a few months ago?
You know, Christiane, since the beginning of this war, Israel has cut off everything that is required to sustain a human life -- food, fuel, shelter, medicine, water.
And it has been going on now for five months and left the people of Gaza completely reliant on outside assistance. And actually, it has systematically denied and delayed a lot of that assistance, occasionally bombing some of the convoys that bring this assistance and bombing some of the people -- shooting at some of the people who are trying to get whatever scarce resources that they can get.
According to the U.N. every single person in Gaza today is hungry. Over a quarter of the population, that's more than 550,000 people are one step away from famine.
Experts say that they have never seen a population descend into such mass hunger so rapidly. I mean, I'm hearing of people just eating whatever they can get their hands on, including grass or they're having to grind, you know, bird feed or animal fodder just to make bread.
And in the north of Gaza, people are not on the verge of starvation, they're actually dying of starvation. It starts with the most vulnerable -- the elderly, the wounded, babies. We're hearing increasing number of babies who are dying from severe malnutrition and thirst.
And if things don't change, I think these cases are going to be spiraling throughout the strip.
And, you know, this has been a slow-motion mass murder of children five months in the making. Children who were thriving and healthy just months ago are wasting away in front of their parents. You know, starvation is a very slow, cruel, and painful death. Your muscles shrink, your immune system shuts down, your organs give out.
Imagine being a parent, having to go through that, witness your child going through that and not being able to do anything to help. It is absolutely shameful, outrageous, and entirely predictable what's happening in Gaza today because it was deliberate.
AMANPOUR: Queen Rania, we have been reporting systematically what you are describing. In fact, a lot of the world is now and has been reporting this severe hunger, the statistics, the pictures that you're talking about.
[11:19:51]
AMANPOUR: I wonder whether you think that is the reason why, for instance, the United States, the U.K., other nations, which are allies of Israel, have started to really ramp up their need to deliver aid, like the airdrops that Jordan has been involved in, you see the U.S. doing it. You see the idea of a floating pier in order to bring much more aid via the sea.
Do you think the message that you've just described has actually now gotten through?
QUEEN AL ABDULLAH: Well, look, let me just be very clear about what these airdrops are. They are us resorting to desperate measures in order to address a desperate situation. These airdrops are literally just drops in an ocean of unmet needs.
And King Abdullah has said from the very beginning, they are neither sufficient nor they are substitute for, you know, humanitarian access at scale.
So countries should not use them as a way out, nor should they be viewed as an excuse for not doing what needs to be done. And that is implementing an immediate and sustained ceasefire, opening all access points into Gaza, particularly land routes, streamlining the inspection process and making sure that there is safe access within Gaza so that the aid can be distributed.
Every moment counts. Children are starving as we speak. So every moment and every meal counts. And so, I think now we're past the stage of trying to talk Israel into doing these things. We need to actually start using measures and political leverage to get them to do those things.
AMANPOUR: You were received at the White House along with the King. You also went to Capitol Hill where some of the strongest support does reside. What message did you deliver on Capitol Hill and what did you hear from them?
QUEEN AL ABDULLAH: Well, I think a lot of people need to know more about this conflict, to really understand the intricacies of it, to understand that this is one of the greatest historical injustices, and to understand what the root cause of this issue is, to understand that this conflict did not begin on October 7th, that it was a result of years of occupation, of settlement expansion, of human rights abuses, of disregard for international law.
And this is what led us to this point. You know, if we look at Israel today, you know, sometimes I -- you know, you hear the prime minister justifying the war by saying that he is doing what the public wants and that the overwhelming majority of Israelis support this war.
Well, you know, I refuse to believe that an entire population can look at what's going on in Gaza and be ok with it. The dehumanization of Palestinians is systematic. It's ingrained. It is ubiquitous. They believe that if we don't kill them, they're going to kill us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And you can watch our entire conversation online at Amanpour.com.
And a note, Netanyahu's latest scheme is to move 1.5 million Gazans from Rafah to so-called new-built humanitarian islands in central Gaza. That would be ahead of any offensive into Rafah.
Coming up next on the program, Mars missions and solar eclipses with NASA chief Bill Nelson. I'll also ask him if Russia is serious about building a nuclear power station on the moon.
And later, the return of a smash hit play that explores being black in Britain. Playwright Ryan Calais Cameron joins the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is for black boys who have considered suicide (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:23:30]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
He calls NASA the crown jewel of our quest for exploration. Administrator Bill Nelson gave his 2024 state of NASA address this week. And it was as much about the future as about the U.S. economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And lift off for Artemis 1.
BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: we benefit humanity through the Artemis mission. We will return America to the moon. Then we'll leave our footprints on the red sands of Mars.
A moon shot like that requires all people all the time. And through Artemis, NASA is creating thousands of good paying jobs in all 50 states.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Exciting ambitions indeed, and a critical time for NASA. It just had its budget cut, it's Artemis manned moon mission is behind schedule and now China and Russia are talking about a nuclear power plant on the lunar surface.
I spoke to NASA administrator Bill Nelson just after the latest SpaceX rocket took golf successfully, but later failed on re-entry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Ok. So that's -- it's just a test right now. But what I want to know then is the Starship, you think going to be ready for the mission which has been now slated for 2026.
NELSON: To be determined. There are many, many more tests. There are many, many more new things that they have to do not the least of which is they've got to transfer about five tankers full of fuel into the Starship in low earth orbit.
[11:29:53]
NELSON: This has never been done before. And then that Starship would be the one that would go on to the moon and perform the landing.
AMANPOUR: So let me ask you because obviously we live in an era now where there's increased competition, should we just put it that way, between the United States, Russia, and China. And as I said, they're talking about a nuclear power plant. They're talking about getting to the lunar south pole.
Who will be the first do you think at this time. Is it Russia and China? Or is it the United States?
NELSON: Well, it'll be the United States to land with humans first on the moon. Now, of course, we did that a half a century ago.
We go back this time a different way. We go with our commercial partners, the SpaceX as we're talking about, eventually Blue Origin.
We go back with international partners on the first mission next year that will circle the moon. We have three Americans and a Canadian.
So it's a totally different way. We go to a different part of the moon. We go to very hazardous south pole of the moon that is pockmarked with huge craters.
And where the light comes in at such a severe angle that so much of the south pole is in permanent deep shadows. So you have to be very precise in your landing.
So all of this is a new venture. But for a reason. We're going back to the moon to learn to live, to learn to create, to invent in order to be able for us to take humans all the way to Mars.
AMANPOUR: Why the south pole? And what's been discovered? You know, the ice there is so critical for these future missions to settle.
NELSON: Because if there is ice and we know there's ice in the crevices. If there is water in abundance and by the way, we have a spacecraft that -- a commercial spacecraft at the end of this year that's going to dig for water. If there is water in quantities then we have hydrogen and oxygen. We have rocket fuel, we have a gas station on the south pole of the moon. AMANPOUR: Let me ask you though, about some worries. Already, the
Russians and the Chinese are talking about considering in the next ten years a nuclear power plant to install on the lunar surface.
And you've heard President Putin even suggest some kind of either nuclear weapon or nuclear-powered weapon to be put up in space. How concerning is that?
NELSON: Well, first of all, I think it's two different ideas. They are talking about on the surface of the moon generating electricity from nuclear thermal energy, the same as we are talking about such a similar electrical generation.
That's totally different from what was reported in the newspapers a couple of weeks ago. And if those reports are true, your question to me was, am I concerned?
Of course, I'm concerned because a nuclear weapon in low earth orbit if detonated would threaten our astronauts on the International Space Station, our foreign astronauts likewise including the Russian cosmonauts that we have on the International Space Station.
AMANPOUR: Bill Nelson standby. When we come back, I'm going to ask you about an update on the NASA Mars mission and there is also a once-in a lifetime event coming up next month. We'll be right back.
[11:33:56]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
If you're just joining us, we're returning to our conversation with NASA administrator, Bill Nelson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome again. We want to talk now about Mars and kind of if I could say it this way, you know, recruiting Martians. But first let me ask you what you're doing to test the whole situation right now. It's called a CHAPEA mission. It's basically Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog, which is tech speak for simulating time on Mars. How is that going and how important and how long do these simulations take?
NELSON: One year they are halfway through. They are trying to simulate four people being closed up on the surface of Mars in a 1,700 square- foot facility. And thus far it is going very, very well.
Obviously, they can't change the gravity of earth, but they can on some of the exercise equipment mimic the gravity of mars, which is a one-third the gravity of earth.
[11:39:55]
AMANPOUR: So "The New York Times" put it this way that, you know, there are many challenges, including one that is, you know, perhaps insurmountable, perhaps not. And that is the challenge of isolation.
And we have a little audio clip from one of the logs of one of the Martians. And this is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANCA SELARIU, NASA CHAPEA MISSION SCIENCE OFFICER: Now that were halfway through, what do I miss most about earth? Well, what took me by surprise was how much I miss earth life. Its sounds, its colors, it's almost a visceral sensation much like a phantom limb syndrome.
I really never thought that this was possible. I miss the greenery, I'm missing an insect, petting a cat, hearing a bird. And miss the colorful sky of earth, its ever-changing weather. I miss the nearly infinite library of earth's nature smells.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's very poignant and it does point out, what they have to endure.
So you have applications, the deadline is soon. What is your 30-second elevator pitch for why humans should, you know, come and test out as Martians.
NELSON: Well, we're going to do this two more times in the near future. So please apply. We're trying to see how the human reacts.
Now, we indeed have had astronauts for a year on the International Space Station. A lot of what that lady suggested that she misses is the same thing that they miss when they're longtime on the space station, although they can see the earth below them.
And so we compensate that, we compensate visually for example, on the treadmill or on the elliptical. They can be running virtually down a country lane. You can compensate for what she misses.
AMANPOUR: Yes. I think it's incredible to think about it.
Last question. There is going to be a once in a lifetime total solar eclipse. It's taking place April the 8th. And there won't be another one until 2144. So what is special about it and why is Niagara Falls the best place to be.
NELSON: As the earth revolves and there is this total blackout of the sun during the daylight hours, that shadow then moves across the earth.
Part of it, for example, is just to the south in Cleveland, Ohio. But when you get too Great Falls (ph), there will be that total blackout.
And so daylight suddenly becomes dark. And then it becomes daylight again as the two bodies are blocking out the sun as the body that blocks out the sun moves on.
So it's, it's a unique experience and it happens once in a long period of time and it is coming up in April.
AMANPOUR: Once in almost a century.
Bill Nelson, thank you so much indeed.
And when we come back, hearts and imaginations run free. Ryan Calais Cameron on his sellout play about being black in 21st century Britain.
But first, as Haiti plunges further into chaos, flashback to my archive despite United States interventions, no end in sight for Haiti's journey through hell.
[11:43:33]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
Haiti sinks back into chaos and gang violence yet again with observers saying the country is teetering on the brink of civil war. The United States is sending more marines to protect its assets and promises hundreds of millions more dollars toward a multinational U.N.-backed mission to help quell the violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Having done all of this work, we should be in a place where that mission can go forward. It can, we believe help re-established security and take back control of the country from the gangs. Meanwhile, political transition is moving forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now among the poorest countries in the world, Haiti is condemned to an unending cycle of poverty, violence, and failing democracy. The last time the U.S. sent troops to restore order, the experiment failed. The same dire conditions have endured ever since then.
And here's my report from 1994, just before the U.S. restored President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: On Sunday, the people of Cite Soleil dress up, go to church and pray for a better life. The rest of the week they live in the real world.
The first thing that hits you in this slum is the stench. People sit around the open sewers that run along the street. The place is a massive outdoor toilet and it's hard to avoid falling in.
Some have given up trying or don't even know they should. Home is a shack, urine and feces in the front yard.
[11:49:52]
AMANPOUR: You wonder how people can stand it, but the answer is simple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no money, no means. I have nowhere else to live.
AMANPOUR: Teenagers find a rare dry spot for a game of soccer. We asked how these boys felt stuck at the front (ph) of all that wealth nestled in the hills way above their miserable lives.
But to answer us, they have to straddle a ditch, full of filth. This young man missed.
It bothers us. We're human beings to someone but we have to live in these conditions. We would like to live like them, but there's no way.
AMANPOUR: These are the supporters of exiled President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. The U.S. wants to return him to power, but he's been away nearly three years now and even here, some are beginning to lose faith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way things are now, no one can see who supports Aristide or anyone else. Everyone lives for himself day by day.
AMANPOUR: Trying to beef up his support, the U.S. has started broadcasting Aristide's speeches into Haiti.
But so far the propaganda is falling on deaf ears. Since the embargo too many are too poor to afford radios or even batteries. And now, U.S. officials here are thinking of importing and distributing them.
The sanctions which Aristide called for, are also making people angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aristide gave us the embargo. We can't eat. Kids can't go to school. We don't want him to come back.
AMANPOUR: Many of those who do want him back are afraid to say so publicly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we know if we say something somebody just coming in my house and take me, I'm going someplace if a man came. That's what -- that nobody can (INAUDIBLE).
We stay with the mobsters (ph).
AMANPOUR: Cite Soleil has borne the brunt of the violence and repression in this capital, though many of the killings, rapes, and kidnappings are the work of common criminals, others are politically- motivated.
Bodies are frequently found in the streets. An empty lot is all that remains of 200 homes torched by an anti-Aristide gang.
Haiti is at yet another of its turning points. But here in the slum called Sun City few really believe their turn has come. (END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: It's a horrible picture of their reality. Meanwhile, the current embattled prime minister, Ariel Henry, promises to resign, pending (ph) the U.S. calls for a transitional council to be formed but that hasn't happened either. And time for the people is ticking on.
Up next, I talk to the man behind the hit play about black masculinity in London. And why the show is still selling out on its fourth run.
[11:52:30]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: And finally, my "Letter from London" this week. The return of the smash hit play "The Guardian" calls a moving meditation on black masculinity and black life in Britain. It's called "For Black Boys Who Have Considered Suicide When The Hue Gets Too Heavy". And its back in the West End off to a sellout first, second, and third run.
That's where I met 34 -ear-old playwright Ryan Calais Cameron earlier this week. I began by asking him about the evocative title.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMERON: As a drama student, I'm looking for material that kind of spoke to me in a kind of way in terms of types (ph) all I wanted to make. And I came across Ntozake Shange's "For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow is Enuf".
AMANPOUR: That's American.
CAMERON: That's American -- yes, yes, yes. So that one then in the 1970s in New York. And I've never heard of her at that time and I was so inspired by the text and how it made young black women feel, you know.
I felt that I could identify themselves in me. And I was like, you know what, as an artist, this is such a good springboard, you know. And it took me a decade to be able to write anything that could even, you know, be in the same kind of spaces that -- but it inspired me to go. There are stories out there that need to be told for people that look like me.
AMANPOUR: What is it about black boys that you think needs to be told that they can't express themselves like maybe white boys.
CAMERON: I think -- I think the biggest issue --
AMANPOUR: Or they're expected by society to be --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMERON: I think the biggest issue is about what men should be, right, and how society is kind of -- for hundreds of years put men into a position of brawn and on being stoic and not being able to express yourself through anything, through song, food, dance. And then you can double, triple that when you add black men to it, you know. And this image that -- this narrative that society and media and art gives of what a black man should be, you know.
And I think as young black men, we can see that and we go, ok, well, I need to be this image of blackness, otherwise I'm not black enough, right?
So then I put six young, authentic, different, young black boys on stage to do that. You know, whoever you are, you are enough.
AMANPOUR: I've read that you were on the tube. Trayvon Martin has been in that horrible stand-your-ground incident in the United States.
And you heard people talking about that and about Trayvon.
CAMERON: Yes. Yes.
AMANPOUR: What did you hear?
CAMERON: Well, that was a discussion where it was -- what was being said was he was a young black boy in a hoodie. You know, what -- what do you expect?
AMANPOUR: In a hoodie.
CAMERON: In a hoodie, what do you expect.
And I remember at the time thinking, well, I'm a young black boy and I wear a hoodie and I'm a father of young black boys. Is that an excuse, you know, is that a reason to, you know, take away our livelihood or to look at us as less, lesser than a human being.
[11:59:48]
CAMERON: And I think at that time I had this idea of this place, well in my head, but that was a major catalyst for me to go ok, I need to start really putting pen to paper now because this placed (ph) urgent in that moment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And it is an amazing play. "For Black Boys" is on now at the Garrick Theater here in London's West End until May 4th.
And of course, you can watch our whole interview with Ryan Calais Cameron next week online.
You'll find it and all of our shows online, as I said, as podcasts at cnn.com/podcast and on all other major platforms.
I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching. And I'll see you again next week.
