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The Amanpour Hour

Interview with Former Pentagon Official Elbridge Colby; Interview with Council on Foreign Relations President Emeritus Richard Haass; Interview with Governor Jay Inslee (D-WA); Interview with Former French President Francois Hollande; Interview with UNRWA Commissioner General Philippe Lazzarini; 20 Years after Arafat. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired November 16, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:39]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: As Trump's cabinet remakes America in his image, how will this mandate shape the world?

I asked Trump supporter and former Pentagon official Elbridge Colby.

Then --

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: We've got a rare moment in American history here. Suddenly we don't really have checks and balances.

AMANPOUR: Richard Haass, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, breaks it all down.

Also, our planet in peril.

GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA): We have a climate denier in the White House.

AMANPOUR: Washington Governor Jay Inslee tells me Democrats must keep fighting.

And how making America great again could upend the U.S.-led world order. Former French President Francois Hollande joined me in London.

Plus, as Trump appoints right wing Israel allies, how will that war end?

PHILIPPE LAZZARINI, UNRWA COMMISSIONER-GENERAL: By any account, there is indeed a policy of forced displacement.

AMANPOUR: UNRWA head Philippe Lazzarini, on the harrowing reality across Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

Trump world's week has been busy setting his agenda at home and abroad. And it looks a lot like what he promised after a cozy-looking meeting in the Oval Office with President Biden, tradition went right out the window with his mostly ultra loyalist and hardline cabinet picks on everything from immigration to climate, the rule of law and beyond.

Now, even some Republicans are still panicking about some of the new personnel. Take choosing Representative Matt Gaetz as attorney general running the Department of Justice. One called it an absolute gut punch, wild, and so out of bounds.

For one thing, Gaetz has been investigated by that very department under both Trump and Biden administrations over sex trafficking allegations with teenage girls. He wasn't charged.

And additionally, he is being investigated by the House Ethics Committee over allegations including sexual misconduct and illicit drug use.

If personnel is policy, it's taking shape on many fronts, including appointing a Fox News weekend anchor as Defense secretary, again shocking many at the Pentagon.

Among other anti-diversity statements Pete Hegseth persuaded Trump to pardon some U.S. servicemen accused of war crimes.

I asked Elbridge Colby about this as he served in the Pentagon during Trump's first term and he remains a supporter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Elbridge Colby, welcome back to the program and welcome from Washington.

Look, can we first ask you, who the heck is this Hegseth guy, as the defense industry is asking? What qualifies him for this role?

ELBRIDGE COLBY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, great to be with you, Christiane.

Pete Hegseth is a decorated combat veteran. He's been a leading voice for veterans. He's written books, he went to Princeton, he went to Harvard. He's a major figure in the United States.

And as President Trump has pointed out, he's very aligned with the America First foreign policy that President Trump has decisively been elected on.

And now, he's picking people who he knows and he thinks are going to implement his vision.

AMANPOUR: You know, he has said that women have no place in combat roles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP NOMINEE FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective. Hasn't made us more lethal. Has made fighting more complicated.

We've all served with women and they're great.

It's just our institutions don't have to incentivize that in places where traditionally -- not traditionally -- over human history, men in these positions are more capable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: He's been among Trump's, as we know, high-profile supporters. In terms of rolling back initiatives designed to promote diversity, he has said, any general, any admiral, whatever, who was involved in DEI -- diversity, equity, and inclusion -- programs or woke expletive, has got to go, he said.

And yet, the Pentagon is one of the most incredibly successful institutions in America that works brilliantly on its inclusion and diversity policies.

[11:04:53]

AMANPOUR: Is this really going to be ripped apart?

COLBY: Well, the Pentagon was immensely successful as one of the first places to integrate in the American system.

General Colin Powell became chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the first President Bush because it was a merit-based organization.

And by the way, that's when our Pentagon was actually winning wars.

I thoroughly support, and I think the American people have sent their support, for rolling back politically-correct, kind of woke, DEI- focused, as opposed to a focus on merit. Whatever your race or creed, that's the American way, and that's what people are going back to.

So, you know, we want our military to be lethal and effective and merit-based. That's the best of the American way. And that's what Pete Hegseth is calling for.

More importantly, that's what Donald Trump has called for. And he's been elected on.

AMANPOUR: Ok. So, I understand everybody wants merit, but that's not to say that the people who are in the Pentagon now are there because of some woke expletive.

And so, I want to ask you, Pete Hegseth, I think has also suggested that the current chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the highly distinguished Air Force General, C.Q. Brown, is at risk and possibly shouldn't be where he is.

Do you think that's going to happen?

COLBY: Well, I mean, look, I can't speak for --

(CROSSTALKING)

AMANPOUR: Should it? I mean, he's a really decorated combat veteran.

COLBY: Yes. I mean, I don't want to comment on specific cases. What I'm going to say is that our Pentagon, and a lot of our generals, including retired general and flag officers, have gotten themselves way into inappropriate politics over the last few years.

After a 25-year span in which our foreign policy and defense establishment has failed utterly to the American people.

What I think President Trump is doing is not ejecting the post-war approach to American foreign policy. He's rejecting the post-Cold War hubris of the last kind of 30 years.

And a lot of that goes to the civilian leadership, but our generals have not done a great job. And a lot of them are out calling him, you know, fascist or it's the end of democracy or whatever.

We need to get our general and flag officers back to focus on winning, winning wars or -- and wherever possible, avoiding wars by understanding what it is that we can and can't do and the American people will support.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: But many Republican traditionalists fear the impact of Trump's unpredictable style on America's standing in the world. One of them is Richard Haass. He's a former senior State Department official under President George W. Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you for your opinion then on Pete Hegseth as the next Defense secretary? Do you agree with the people who've said he's got -- he's the least qualified in American history?

HAASS: I've never met the gentleman. What worries me, Christiane, is he has no experience running an organization. He served -- which is, you know, obviously a very good and honorable thing, but he hasn't worked in the Washington decision-making world.

Pentagon is an enormous management challenge, both the building, the interagency process, as well as the American troops scattered around the world. So, I worry about that, the lack of that background. I also worry

about the politicization of the military. You know, this talk about creating some kind of a special group, a warrior group to vet existing admirals and generals, I worry about that.

This talk about potentially using the U.S. military, a lot of people are concerned about this, under the Insurrection Act to deal with disturbances that, for example, could stem from an effort to deport many individuals.

AMANPOUR: I had wanted to put this statement from the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Mark Milley to Elbridge Colby, but I didn't get the time. So, I'm going to play it and ask you.

This is about the loyalty test. And to be frank, what people were concerned about in 2016 would, you know, any military be prevailed upon to potentially commit an illegal act, you know, if they were ordered to do so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, FORMER CHAIR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We don't take an oath to a king, or a queen, or to a tyrant, or a dictator, and we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual.

We take an oath to the Constitution, and we take an oath to the idea that it's America, and we're willing to die to protect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAASS: I would hope that the U.S. military would remain, in some ways, our greatest meritocracy, where people, men and women, only get promoted because they deserve to.

And I would not want there to be a kind of political vetting of promotions. I think that would be really poisonous for the military. So, again, I hope it doesn't come to that.

You've asked whether there'll be guardrails. I think that's the basic question of a Trump administration.

We've got a rare moment in American history here. Suddenly, we don't really have checks and balances. What we have is the American equivalent of a parliamentary system.

Think about it. The White House, the Senate, most likely the House, are all in Republican hands. The Supreme Court leans that way.

[11:09:48]

HAASS: So, the question is, where does the pushback come from? How do we make sure that there are guardrails in this? It'll take individuals of conscience, the media has a role to play, American society writ large has a role to play. But we've got to hope that there are people around the 47th president

who don't understand loyalty in personal terms, but understand loyalty in constitutional terms. AMANPOUR: What do you make of Senator Rubio and Congressman Waltz who have been named as Secretary of State and National Security Adviser? What do their politics and their record on issues, I don't know, like Ukraine or China or whatever, what does that say to you?

Is it highly aligned with President Trump? Is it more independent? Is it more, what, bipartisan? I don't know.

HAASS: I took their appointments as a pretty good sign. To begin with, they're both internationalists. Neither one is an isolationist. So, I thought that was welcome.

They both also have backgrounds in bases. They're not creatures of Donald Trump. Marco Rubio has several terms in the Senate. Mike Waltz in the House, in addition to his military background. Plus, he served in the executive branch in the Pentagon.

They're both very tough on China. I think an even bigger question mark is what they're prepared to do vis-a-vis Ukraine. Both, as I understand it, voted against the most recent tranche of military aid for Ukraine.

But the real question is, if you want to get from where we are now to a negotiation, cutting off aid to Ukraine is not the way to do it.

Russia has to understand that it faces a capable Ukraine. That's the only way to get Putin to consider compromising. And we have to give Mr. Zelenskyy the confidence that if he does make some compromises, Ukraine will remain an independent functioning country.

The Middle East, what concerns me there is that we're -- we've got people getting involved in the Middle East who seem to think that U.S. policy is simply to give Israel a green light. And I don't think that's in Israel's self-interest, I don't think that's in America's self-interest at times.

So, I hope our policy becomes more -- you know, potentially more critical or at least more realistic there.

AMANPOUR: And let's move to Gaza where there's a big report in Haaretz that suggests the Israeli forces are going to be there at least through 2025 and maybe longer and the whole business of kind of building an infrastructure in Northern Gaza has been seen and investigated. Roads and places where they'll build military infrastructure there.

And Donald Trump has told Benjamin Netanyahu to, quote, "Do what you have to do," to quote, "finish the job" in Israel, in Lebanon, or what -- how do you read that? It's clear that he wants this over by the time he's inaugurated.

HAASS: Well, I fear it won't be over, but it should be over. Right now, there's extraordinary opportunity in the Middle East, in

Gaza, if Israel would simply, among other things, you know, agree to a ceasefire, not only would it have a chance of getting the hostages back.

But you know, if it coupled that with some sort of a commitment to a Palestinian political entity or state, what have you, I think then you could bring an Arab stabilization force into Gaza.

You could create order there. Hamas would not be able to reemerge. You wouldn't need an Israeli occupation. This seems to me to be so much in Israel's interest.

And the opportunities there, the Arab states are willing to do it.

In Lebanon, Israel has delivered a decisive blow against Hezbollah. So, I would say, let's build on that. Let's stop the settlement activity which I think precludes or closes potential for diplomacy in this part of the world.

Hopefully, the Iranians won't take another step against Israel. And then we can maybe calm the Israeli-Iranian relationship for a time.

So I actually think Mr. Trump comes to office, potentially, with extraordinary opportunity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Richard Haass, former U.S. State Department official.

Now coming up, the environment bracing for Trump 2.0. Washington State Democrat Jay Inslee, dubbed the greenest governor on climate and an election postmortem.

[11:13:52]

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AMANPOUR: Elections as they say, have consequences and Donald Trump's mandate is the biggest shift to the right since Ronald Reagan's victory in 1980. But potentially even more radical on key global issues like climate crisis.

Trump has appointed cabinet secretaries promising to gut environmental institutions again. Indeed, he spent this campaign chanting "drill, baby, drill" again.

Officials gathering in Baku, Azerbaijan for this year's annual COP summit are aware that Trump even recently said at a rally, we don't have a global warming problem.

And half the U.S. governors are doing their own environmental thing anyway like Democrat Jay Inslee of Washington State, who also gave me a brief election postmortem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: I want to start by asking you about what President Trump said, even on his victory speech, because that obviously is hanging over what may or may not be possible in the future.

Let me just -- let me just play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Leave the oil to me. We have more liquid gold, oil and gas. We have more liquid gold than any country in the world, more than Saudi Arabia. We have more than Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: What do you make of that?

[11:19:47]

INSLEE: The election of Donald Trump certainly has been a shock to the international efforts to defeat climate change.

But this is just -- this is not the end of the story. And the reason I'm actually taking off to Azerbaijan is to assure the world that the United States is not done in our climate fighting efforts. We're just in the middle of this effort.

And the reason is we have broad swaths of the United States, over 60 percent of the U.S. economy belong to the U.S. climate alliance. 24 states that are fighting climate change, we will not be stopped by Donald Trump. Each one of our states, in our own way, is fighting climate change and building a clean energy economy.

AMANPOUR: Oo. So, when you're in Baku and people say to you, that's all well and good, governor, but this is what happened last time around. He pulled you out of the Paris Climate Accord.

Do you think that's as important as what you're doing on the state? What is the negative impact of pulling out of the Climate Accord by the U.S. government?

INSLEE: Well, I think it is a signal, unfortunate that we have a climate denier in the White House and that unquestionably will retard what otherwise would happen on a federal level.

But the point I want to share with people is even in 2016, it did not slow me down in the State of Washington.

We continued reducing our climate emissions and building clean energy economies unabated. And we did it because of our own policies, our own investment of state dollars and our own entrepreneurial zeal.

So, we are going to continue making progress on fighting climate change, Donald Trump or no.

Now, is it unfortunate that he will not have the continued investment, increased investment that we might otherwise have had? Yes. But we have as much climate change fighting that we are capable of advancing on the state level as the federal level, and that's going to continue.

AMANPOUR: What do you think -- you know, because others have said, you know, the Biden administration or Harris or whoever was too condescending, you know, too elite-focused?

What do you -- what do you think was -- if you had to say, was the main reason for the drubbing of last week?

INSLEE: Well, I don't like postmortems. I'm always looking forward rather than backwards.

Had we not had a crisis on the border, I believe the results would have been opposite. And if we'd not had a situation where we had to change horses just a hundred days before the election and really didn't have a chance to have open primaries, I think those things conspired against us.

Those things are one-offs. They're not going to happen again. I'm proud to be a Democrat.

So, what I can speak of is from a place of being proudful of the efforts we're making, and again, this job creation around clean energy.

If you want to speak to working class Americans, those who have great careers that may not require a college degree, this is probably the strongest argument to make for those people who are building wind turbines, electricians who are wiring for solar farms.

That's why in my state, the entire working labor community embraced our action about these policies because they're such job creators for non-college educated folks who could still have great careers.

So, if you're concerned about that, get on the clean energy bandwagon because this is a winning message to talk to that community of people.

AMANPOUR: Ok. I want to ask you about that, because most of the analysis has been -- you say it won't happen again, but they say that, look, 2016 everybody thought was an aberration, now 2024 has solidified what 2016 started.

And that furthermore, the Democrats have lost their traditional working-class voters. And even some, you know, black voters, Latino voters, basically their traditional constituents.

So, why do you think that this won't happen again? And do you think you are still the party of the working class?

INSLEE: Number one, when you said solidified, nothing is solid in politics.

So, we will be back. That's the nature of history that it -- there are -- there's ebbs and flows.

But this issue about somehow losing the working class, I do not buy that. And I'll tell you why. Look, we did have losses but it wasn't just the working class, it was up and down the income level. It was suburban and rural.

And my assessment is that was largely because of the inflation that we suffered. Now, that's interesting because, as you know, incumbent parties both from the left and the right have lost internationally because of inflation that was caused by the COVID epidemic largely. That was a one off. We hope we'll not see another COVID.

But our message of job creation around clean energy, our message of increased health care for people, our message of respecting the rights of women, our message of opportunity for all, I believe will rise again. I believe that's going to happen. I've seen it during my lifetime and I look forward to it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And we'll be right back with the international reaction after a break.

[11:24:49]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

So, what are the global implications of Trump 2.0 and how are U.S. allies reacting from funding Ukraine to the spread of right-wing nationalism? Over the last year, we've seen countries try to Trump- proof their own interests against isolationism and protectionism.

[11:29:51]

AMANPOUR: French President Emmanuel Macron saying that he is ready to work together as he did four years ago.

So, let's get the view now from Europe with Macron's predecessor, the former French President Francois Hollande, who joined me on set here in London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: What do you make, as the former leader of France and a current MP, of the election of Donald Trump, Donald Trump 2.0? What's your reaction?

FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, FORMER FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): This election was not so surprising because it allowed Trump to return as President of the United States, but it was the scale of his win which was really surprising.

AMANPOUR: What will it mean for Europe when you see this shift, as you've just said, a massive shift to the right, at the same time, it's happening in Europe as well, even in your own country with Marine Le Pen, even in, you know, Italy, in Hungary?

HOLLANDE: There is this trend, which is certainly not unique to the U.S. and which is now rising in Europe, a return to a united Europe, nationalism, fear, and so on.

But the various far-right movements getting inspiration from Trump are also anxious about what Trump is actually going to do.

So, that's to say what Donald Trump is going to do now. And I know him sufficiently well to know that he will do what he says, higher tariffs and appeal for European investment in the U.S., a commercial confrontation with China, which will weaken global economic growth. All that will be a major challenge for Europe.

And so, all these people calling for protectionism and American withdrawal, they will all suffer from the politics of Trump.

AMANPOUR: Anticipating his return, many Europeans try to Trump-proof, try to already set up their own defenses and responses even before the election.

I just want to play what the current French President Macron said in Budapest at a meeting, a summit just this past week. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): There has been a strategic awakening that we must embrace as Europeans. We cannot entrust our security to the Americans forever. I believe it's also important to send a message that we are now providers of security solutions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLLANDE: This message hasn't always been properly heard or understood, but now that Trump is going not only to withdraw American forces stationed in Europe, there are U.S. soldiers who are going to return home after all, but he will almost certainly ask NATO share the burden of cost of the security of Europe.

Obviously, the Americans will do what they want, but it is essential that Europe takes responsibility for its own security in proper agreement, of course, with the Trump administration.

AMANPOUR: In your opinion, what will happen to Ukraine in this next administration, in the next six months?

HOLLANDE: Well, we have to look at what Donald Trump says himself. He wants to stop the conflict in Ukraine, even in the space of a couple of days.

So he's going to stop all aid to Ukraine. And almost certainly, together with Putin, he's going to ask for a peace conference to be organized.

And this will mean abandoning the territories which are occupied at the moment by Russian forces on Ukrainian territory, which would be tantamount to a capitulation on the part of Ukraine.

Can Europe thwart this process? Yes. Provided we continue to supply Ukraine with military aid, but at a much higher level, because in all likelihood, the American administration is going to withdraw from the Ukraine in question.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Hollande also says the U.S. and NATO must allow Ukraine to use their long-range missiles against military targets inside Russia, and warns thus far, NATO has only helped to allow Ukraine to resist and survive, not to win or even to pressure Russia to the table yet.

Meantime in France, prosecutors are accusing far-right leader Marine Le Pen of misusing E.U. funds and they're seeking to ban her from the 2027 presidential election.

We'll be right back after this short break.

[11:34:39]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now the Israeli government is buoyed by Trump's reelection. His appointees this week, like the Christian evangelist Mike Huckabee as ambassador to Israel, could further the far-right agenda of settlement building and annexation of land that's meant to be resolved in a two- state peace accord.

Israel's war on Gaza continues unabated hundreds more are killed weekly and civilians fleeing the north describe a chronic lack of food and people dying of hunger.

[11:39:47]

AMANPOUR: Alleging links to Hamas, Israel's parliament has voted to ban UNRWA, which is the U.N.'s relief agency there. And now Israel's ambassador to the U.N. is calling on the UNRWA chief, Philippe Lazzarini, to step down.

I spoke with him shortly after that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: I want to start with the latest Human Rights Watch report. They are saying that Israel has basically overseen the forced mass displacement of Palestinians in Gaza.

They use the words "deliberate", "systematic" campaign amounts to a war crime and a crime against humanity.

Can you tell me what is your reaction to that? What are you hearing about what's happening in the north?

LAZZARINI: Well, if I listen to my colleagues on the report we are getting, I mean, it's harrowing horrors. And what they are describing is post-apocalyptic environment. Basically, people just waiting to be killed either by airstrike, by

disease, or even by hunger.

And it is also true that we have seen, over the last months, an entire population in the north being on the total siege, where hunger has been weaponized and where people has been forced to displace. And I hear from my colleagues that no one is authorized to go back to the north.

So, by any account, there is indeed a policy of forced displacement.

AMANPOUR: As you know, the Knesset has passed a law aiming to dismantle UNRWA activities.

LAZZARINI: There is no doubt that in the mind of the author of this agnostic bill, they want to get rid of UNRWA. They want to get rid of UNRWA in Gaza, in East Jerusalem, in the rest of the West Bank.

And basically, the hope through this that once for all, they will put an end to the refugee statute (ph) of the Palestinian, and basically, they are saying also to perpetuate the victimhood of the Palestinian.

Now, if in 90 days, UNRWA has to leave, that means that the backbone of the humanitarian response in Gaza will collapse at a time needs have never been so high.

But beyond the imminent (ph) response, what is also at stake is the future of the education of 600,000 girls and boys currently living in the rubble and being deeply traumatized.

AMANPOUR: Now, as you know, UNRWA has been in the crosshairs. The U.N. has fired -- you fired nine of your staff members after an internal investigation found that they may have been involved in the October 7th attack.

And as you know, Israel has accused a number of UNRWA people, and they even said, oh, UNRWA is a front for Hamas.

Well, yesterday, the Israeli ambassador to the U.N., Danny Danon, called for you to resign. And he was standing next to the mother of a hostage. She claims her son was taken hostage by an UNRWA staff member. I want you to listen to Danny Danon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Earlier today, in the 4th Committee, I confronted Commissioner Lazzarini on his responsibility for UNRWA's infiltration by Hamas, its fostering of terrorism, and his total failure of accountability.

I demanded that Commissioner Lazzarini resign if he had any decency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAZZARINI: I really feel the pain of Jonathan's (ph) mother. I feel the pain of any parents of the hostages, but I also feel the pain of any Palestinian mother who have a lost their children.

Now, I also say it is very important that we start to promote, what I would say, mutual compassion. People have either compassion for the pain of the Israeli people or have expressed compassion for Palestinian people, but no one really is in a position to understand the suffering of the others. And I think this is what we need to promote today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And you could watch my full interview with Lazzarini online at CNN.com.

Up next, from my archives, 20 years since Yasser Arafat's death, the Palestinian state he fought for, more of a distant dream than ever. When we come back.

[11:44:16]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

It's 20 years this week since Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat died. He embodied decades of the Palestinians' often violent struggle for independence and then he became a partner for peace with Israel under the U.S.-backed Oslo Accords.

Arafat's legacy is complicated. A terrorist to his enemies while to his supporters a hero who put the quest for Palestinian statehood on the international agenda and ended up working closely with Israel and the United States to achieve that goal.

So from my archives flashback to world leaders reacting to his death in 2004 and what his exit has meant for the Palestinian cause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: For 40 years, Yasser Arafat was a world leader. Through all his incarnations as revolutionary, guerrilla leader, peacemaker, Nobel Peace Prize winner and eventually seen by Israel and the U.S. as a terrorist.

[11:49:55]

AMANPOUR: Reaction to his death has poured in from all over the world. French President Jacques Chirac was the last head of state to see him. It was on his deathbed in a French hospital.

Today, he went to pay his respects to the family.

JACQUES CHIRAC, FORMER FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): France, of course, will endlessly continue to work for peace and security in the Middle East in respect of the rights of the Palestinians and the Israeli people. AMANPOUR: The U.S. President George Bush, who shunned him, issued a statement saying "The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. We express our condolences to the Palestinian people. For the Palestinian people, we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors."

Former U.S. President Bill Clinton, who came closer than any other U.S. president to making peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, said in a statement that Arafat's greatest moment was that historic handshake at the White House with the Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin back in 1993, cementing the Oslo Peace Accords.

Upon Arafat's death, Clinton said, "However others view him the Palestinians saw him as the father of their nation. I regret that in 2000, he missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being. And I pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."

The former Israeli foreign minister, Shimon Peres, who shared that White House handshake, sounded a conciliatory note.

SHIMON PERES, FORMER ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Let bygones be bygones and let openings be openings. Let's turn our face to the opening.

AMANPOUR: Earlier an Israeli cabinet minister, had called Arafat a terrorist and said there would have already been a Palestinian state had Arafat not been in the way.

But the British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who will tell President Bush that peace in the middle east is the highest priority now, said that Arafat was an icon for his people and called for the process to start again.

TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the most important thing is to make sure that we reinvigorate the peace process because there's misery for Palestinians, there's misery for Israelis who suffer terrorist activity.

And in the meantime, we've got a situation where it's a huge source of discontent and problem within the world. So it's important we deal with it.

AMANPOUR: Other European leaders and President Vladimir Putin of Russia, who have historically rallied behind the Palestinian cause, called for the continued effort to create a Palestinian state.

Putin called Arafat a great political leader of international significance who devoted his whole life to the rightful cause of the Palestinian people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: In the wake of the catastrophic Hamas attack on Israel October 7th last year, all that seems to have been blown to smithereens like the Gaza landscape. The ultimate goal of freedom, independence and sovereignty for Palestinians with peace and security for Israel is at serious risk.

Many Arab-Americans say they voted for Trump this year because he says he'll bring peace there. At the same time, Israel's extreme far-right wing government also eagerly awaits Trump 2.0. but it rejects a Palestinian state and so far has provided no political route out of this latest Forever War.

Coming up, the global media revolution. "CALL ME TED", a new docu series takes a deep dive into the life and legacy of the legendary media mogul and CNN founder Ted Turner. I speak to the creators after this short break.

[11:53:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, the man who changed the media landscape forever. When Ted Turner founded our very own CNN in June 1980, the first ever 24-hour Cable News Channel, he vowed to keep rolling until the end of the world.

Now a new docu series, "CALL ME TED" takes people back to where it all began with an intimate look at his personal life and his turbo-charged career.

And I spoke to the husband-and-wife duo producer Joni Levin and writer/director Keith Clarke.

Here's what Joni told me about Ted's guiding principles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONI LEVIN, PRODUCER, "CALL ME TED": When I was thinking about Ted, I thought that nobody had really done that definitive, deep dive on his life and legacy where it's not just his achievements which are many, but it was really looking at the shadows and the obstacles that this man had to overcome to become the person that he is today.

And the thing that I loved about Ted is that he always felt that, you know, it was we, the people -- you know, the fans in the stadium, the citizens of the world that could change the momentum of a game, whether it's climate, whether it's nuclear, the environment, preservation of democracy like he has done and continues to do.

And that was something that I felt that everybody should take a page from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:59:53]

AMANPOUR: And it's a matter of great pride to work for him.

Now the six-part series "CALL ME TED" is streaming on MAX, which is part of CNN's parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery.

And that is all we have time for.

Don't forget you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching. And I'll see you again next week.