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The Amanpour Hour

Interview With International Rescue Committee CEO David Miliband; Interview With "Adolescence" Actor And Co-Writer Stephen Graham; Palestinian Farmers' Fear Grows As Israeli Settlers Close In; Interview With former Pentagon Official Celeste Wallander; Echoes Of The Siege of Sarajevo; French Politician Demands Return Of Lady Liberty. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired March 22, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:59:42]

ABBY PHILIP, CNN HOST: That might be the most popular thing he ever does if he got rid of TSA.

Go ahead.

MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN COMMENTATOR: Let me clear my throat. For everybody out there, this is what I need you to know. Sugar belongs in Kool-Aid, but never grits.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say that again. Say it again. You need to go to jail. Don't put sugar in grits. Don't do it.

ABDUL: It don't belong.

PHILIP: He stole ten of your seconds. Don't say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mississippi and Georgia.

PHILIP: All right, I agree with you all. That's 100 percent accurate.

Everyone, thank you very, very much. And thank you for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE".

You can catch me every weeknight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern with our "NEWSNIGHT" roundtable. And anytime on your favorite social media platforms X, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, you name it.

But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR. Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you look at USAID. That's a -- that's a fraud. The whole thing is a fraud.

AMANPOUR: That's what the president thinks. But USAID saved lives around the world. Now that it's gutted, we hear from frontline humanitarian David Miliband, head of the International Rescue Committee.

Then.

STEPHEN GRAHAM, ACTOR, "ADOLESCENCE": He hasn't been found guilty. He's been accused.

What have you done?

AMANPOUR: The Netflix hit sparking an important conversation, "Adolescence". It's about young minds, male rage and the dangers of social media. Star of the show Stephen Graham joins me.

GRAHAM: The Internet is a huge influence on our children. And in many cases, you know, its parenting our children just as much as we are.

Plus.

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: "We've always lived here," Hussain says. "Our whole lives are here. Where else can we go?"

AMANPOUR: Fear in the Occupied West Bank as Israeli settlers often violently expand their illegal outposts. CNN is there.

Then --

CELESTE WALLANCER, FORMER PENTAGON OFFICIAL: Ukraine has to be able to continue to defend its country for Putin to get serious about the negotiations that President Trump wants.

AMANPOUR: High stakes for Europe and the limits of Trump's Ukraine- Russia diplomacy. Former Pentagon official Celeste Wallander joins me.

And from my archive. Dying not on the battlefield, but in water queues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's tragedy for civilization.

AMANPOUR: On World Water Day, a warning from Sarajevo, painful echoes of water as a weapon of war. From Bosnia back then to Gaza and Ukraine today.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

From HIV to malnutrition to pandemic prevention, from Afghanistan to Ethiopia to Serbia the damage from the Trump administrations gutting of USAID has been swift and extensive. Oxygen tanks, HIV and malaria medications, and other medical supplies amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars remain stuck at ports or storage facilities around the world.

And this week, the legal battle surrounding the agency gathered pace. A federal judge ruled against the world's richest man, Elon Musk, and his DOGE, saying the unilateral manner in which they slashed aid to the world's poorest likely violated the Constitution.

A reminder that there are real human lives in the balance. Though Musk insists no one has died as a result of the cuts, the reality on the ground is different.

Let's hear from David Miliband. He's the CEO and president of the International Rescue Committee. He used to be the British foreign minister, a long-time humanitarian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: David Miliband, welcome back to the program.

DAVID MILIBAND, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Thanks ever so much, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: So, we are talking at the end of a week in which the ceasefire in Gaza has been completely shattered, and Israel's talking more about returning to war unless the hostages are released.

But on the humanitarian front, hundreds of people are reported killed, including women and children.

What are your people seeing on the ground? What can you tell us about what's happening there?

MILIBAND: Well, obviously an absolutely terrible situation in Gaza over the last two months has been significantly improved. Because during the ceasefire, aid has flowed, aid workers have been able to move much more easily around Gaza. And there's been a significant improvement both in the humanitarian help that's going in and in the state of the markets and people's ability to buy things.

That has indeed been shuttered. That's exactly the right word to use. Large numbers of people have been reportedly killed.

But also, there's been just an absolute interruption of the aid flows. You'll know that now, for over two weeks, there's been the end of the flow of basic medical kit. We've got six tons of medical goods waiting to go into Gaza, not able to get in at the moment.

Water restrictions, electricity restrictions.

[11:04:50]

MILIBAND: So obviously, there's just dread, sheer dread that exists on the humanitarian side. And obviously, great fear as well that there's no way the hostages are going to be released either.

AMANPOUR: Ok. So, let's talk about the bigger picture that you are also dealing with around the world -- USAID. And the vast majority of the projects have been stopped and defunded, you know, as they are -- were working.

So, from your perspective as the IRC, has that affected some of your projects and what are you hearing from the community?

MILIBAND: Definitely. The U.S. has been the anchor of the global aid system for many years. Four in $10 that are spent on humanitarian aid were U.S. dollars. Now, Secretary Rubio and the new administration have suspended all

foreign aid. The secretary has announced that 82 percent of all U.S. government funding, contracts, and grants have been terminated.

And that means that education programs are out. Livelihoods and climate resilience programs are out. Sexual and reproductive health programs are out. Infection prevention and control programs are out.

We do have waivers from the administration, from the suspension for, quote/unquote, "lifesaving activities". So, if we are running an emergency health facility or an emergency operating room, we can continue to run that. But a broader primary healthcare center within which that emergency healthcare operation is run, we're not allowed to run.

So, this is fundamental. It's affected nearly half of the -- more than half of the work that we do. So, we are able to sustain the life- saving activities, but more than half of our activities have been suspended or terminated.

And that means that in places like Sudan, in places like Syria, we are unable to deliver services, we're having to close services.

So, this is absolutely fundamental. And our message is very clear that, of course, the administration have an absolute right to review the priorities of American aid. It's American taxpayers' money.

We support reform of the aid system and we can get onto that, but what's happening at the moment is that the most fundamental services are being compromised at a time that this review is going ahead. And so, the consequences are very, very serious indeed.

AMANPOUR: You know, you talk about a review and the serious consequences. Well, first of all, a judge has said in the United States that gutting and ending USAID is likely unconstitutional. But he also said that USAID has been effectively eliminated. It can no longer do what it was created to do.

We know from our colleagues who are reporting and have gone to see, you know, the results themselves, that it is costing lives. Despite what Musk says, it is actually costing lives.

How would you talk about reform versus complete elimination? Let's say there is some reform needed, what would you do?

MILIBAND: Yes, I think it's really important to get to the guts of this, because we're living at a time, as you've reported well over many years, when there's more people in humanitarian need than ever before, there's more pressure on resources than ever before. And so, there's more need for reform than ever before.

What does reform mean? It means innovation so that the aid system predicts crisis and anticipates it rather than just reacts to it.

There's a value for money part of this. We've shown how in our malnutrition programs we can get more than 20 percent greater efficiency, which help means helping 20 percent more acutely malnourished kids in the work that we do.

Third example, different parts of the aid system -- parts for humanitarian aid, parts for development aid, parts for climate finance -- they operate in different silos with different targets and different bureaucracies. That doesn't make any sense at all.

There are three just practical examples of how we could drive the aid system to serve more people in more innovative ways with greater value for money for the taxpayer.

We also need to make sure that newly wealthy countries in the Gulf and elsewhere are contributing their fair share to the system. But you can't do that if you're eliminating the system before you put in place your reforms.

Once you've closed programs, sacked people, you're not able to put in place the reforms without significant cost of having to do it all over again. And so, I think there's a really important principle here, but also a very practical point.

Secretary Rubio, when he was a senator, spoke very eloquently about the soft power that comes from humanitarian aid, but also about the moral imperative of rich countries doing the right thing by the most vulnerable people in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: A reminder that soft power remains a vital tool of foreign policy.

Coming up, everyone is talking about "Adolescence". That's the new Netflix show about how the darkest corners of social media are shaping young boys' views on women and girls. Its star, Stephen Graham, is up next.

[11:09:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

It's the TV show everyone is talking about right now, and a subject that really has hit a nerve. One set of parents' worst nightmare -- their young girl murdered. Another set of parents of the boy who did it, reckoning with their own nightmare.

[11:14:54]

AMANPOUR: At the very center of Netflix's "Adolescence" is toxic masculinity and social media. It shows the all-too-real world dangers when a 13-year-old boy is fed violently misogynistic ideas from online influencers.

Here's a clip from the trailer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven't done anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a good dad. A great dad.

GRAHAM: He hasn't been found guilty. He's been accused.

What have you done?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bang by a girl -- you sausage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not getting it. Why am I not getting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, you're not reading what they're doing. It's a call to action by the manosphere. 80 percent of women are attracted to 20 percent of men. You must trick them because you'll never get them in a normal way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: The show has drawn massive audiences in over 70 countries around the world. It's had a big impact. It was even raised in Britain's parliament this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone is talking about "Adolescence", the series by Knowsley's own Stephen Graham and Christine Tremarco. It highlights online male radicalization and violence against girls.

The creators of the show are calling for screenings in parliament and schools to spark change. So will the prime minister back this campaign to counter toxic misogyny early and give young men the role models they deserve?

CROWD: Yes.

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Yes. And at home we are watching "Adolescence" with our children. I've got a 16-year-old boy and a 14- year-old girl. And it's a very, very good documentary to watch or drama.

She -- this violence carried out by young men influenced by what they see online is a real problem. It's abhorrent. And we have to tackle it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And of course, it's not limited to Britain, this crime. The series was co-written by and stars the British acting titan Stephen Graham. He's been in everything from "The Pirates of the Caribbean" to Scorsese's "The Irishman", and he joined me from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Stephen Graham, welcome to the program.

GRAHAM: Hello. Thank you for having me.

AMANPOUR: First, I want to ask you, I said it's about toxic masculinity. How would you describe what it is? It's about more than that, right? What would you say you're trying to explore in these four episodes?

GRAHAM: Basically, I read an article in the paper a good few years ago, and then a couple of months later there was a piece on the news, on the telly. And it was about -- there was two young boys who'd stabbed these young girls to death. And they were at opposite ends of the country, and it just made me really -- if I'm completely honest with you, it really hurt my heart.

And it made me wonder why they would do something like this and what's kind of happens within our society where this thing in Britain has become kind of a regular occurrence.

What I thought we could look at, you know, is maybe we're all slightly accountable in some way, shape or form. Do you know what I mean? And we look at it and we analyze it from a different perspective.

So, maybe it's down to parenting. Maybe it's down to, you know, the school system, the government, the community, and the social structure in which the child's raised.

But on top of that, when me and you were kids we didn't have the Internet, but now the Internet is a huge influence on our children. And in many cases, you know, it's parenting our children just as much as we are, and it's educating our children just as much, if not more, than our schools are.

AMANPOUR: So, we've got a clip from the first episode. And this is, you know, quite a shocking one for parents to see, for anybody to see. Essentially, it's when the police break down your family home, the front door, to come and arrest your son, Jamie. He's 13 years old.

Now, we've said and you've said, it's really not a whodunit so, there's no spoiler alert. It's a why done it.

GRAHAM: Yes.

AMANPOUR: And we know from the beginning that Jamie is accused of committing this murder. Here is one of the first scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jamie Miller.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The time is 6:15 a.m., and I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder. You don't have to say anything.

(CROSSTALKING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Miller, Mr. Miller, I will arrest you for obstruction. Please stop. Please. I'm arresting you on suspicion of murder. You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defense if you do not mention one question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, I haven't done anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, I haven't done anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand? Do you understand?

GRAHAM: Just tell him you understand, Jay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I understand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Good. Get up slowly, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:19:45]

AMANPOUR: So, it's really traumatic. You are dad, obviously, we can hear you off screen telling him to say that he understands. He's a child. He's been accused of a murder.

But you then have him sort of pop out of bed and he's wet himself. I mean, there's so much that that's telling us, the humanity and the madness of what's happening in this moment.

Was it traumatic for you when you shot it? I mean, telling the story, how did you decide to show it like this?

GRAHAM: We always knew that the format we would use would be in the one shot. And what that kind of does is that enables us to grab the audience straight away.

So, I knew in my head when I was setting up the idea, when I was talking to Jack, who's our fantastic writer, Jack Thorne, when -- I wanted us to grab the audience's attention straight away.

And within the concept of this, straight away, I wanted the audience not to think that Jamie was capable of such a horrendous act. And within the format that we use, what we're capable of doing then is taking the audience with the family.

So, the great thing about this specific style, which our amazing director of photography, Matt Lewis, kind of come up with and created with Phil, the director as well. You've got the audience straight away.

So, you then have this voyeuristic element with the camera. And as the family are learning and working out what's happened, so too did the audience.

AMANPOUR: So, the prime minister of this country talked about this program in parliament, said that he's watching it with his teen children. I know that you have children. What do you want the impact of it to be?

Like, in Australia, they've just banned children from social media, 16 -- until they're 16, I think. They can't go on until after -- until they're 16.

GRAHAM: I think that's something that we should look at. I think there's a way of -- look, and again, you know, people will say freedom of speech, which I understand, but there's a difference between freedom of speech and poison. Do you know what I mean?

I think we need to be very mindful and very, very, very careful about what we're influencing our young generation and what we're allowing them to see. Do you know what I mean?

And if anything, personally, if we can strike some kind of communication. And maybe, you know -- someone said the most beautiful thing that, you know, I think we can get from this is what this program did.

And Hannah said this, my wife said, what she feels our program has achieved is for parents to be able to open that bedroom door now and talk to their children, be they male or female, and ask them what's going on?

Let's just, you know, we -- you know, you know yourself when you go to a restaurant sometimes -- and no disrespect, I understand it, but kids are sat there with -- on -- you know talk to each other, ask each other what's going on. That's the only way we can understand what's happening.

Adolescence is such a difficult age. Your brain's forming, you know, your chemicals are all over the place. You're learning about yourself. You're trying to construct this character that's going to take you into the future.

So, let's talk. Let's open the bridges of communication with each other. That's all we're trying to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: It is a truly devastating watch and a warning that we must take action against the malign, misogynistic influences targeting young minds online.

Social media has far too few guardrails, and toxic masculinity is now being normalized and even celebrated at the highest levels.

Just look at the White House welcoming MMA fighter Conor McGregor to the White House this week. A man found liable for rape in Ireland. It was widely condemned by Irish leaders. And the most dangerous of influencers, Andrew Tate, facing allegations in Romania of rape and human trafficking, along with his brother. They have been welcomed back to the United States with open arms by some Trump allies. Although the state of Florida is investigating why they were allowed to return without any so much as notice to the state authorities.

Now, after the break, how Palestinian farmers are being pushed off their land by violent Israeli settlers. We have a report from the Occupied West Bank.

[11:23:49]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Gaza experienced its deadliest days this week since November 2023 after Israel shattered the fragile ceasefire there with a wave of airstrikes.

But the return to hostilities is being welcomed by far-right Israeli politicians like Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben Gvir. He's even rejoined the coalition government.

When it comes to the Occupied West Bank, both Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are Israeli settlers and vocal supporters of even illegal land grabs, which are becoming increasingly violent as CNN international correspondent Nada Bashir now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For decades, Palestinian shepherds have faced threats and violence at the hands of Israeli settlers. Dozens of rural farms like this one have already been abandoned as a result.

But such violence is only increasing. This is just one of several incidents documented by Israeli NGO B'Tselem over recent months. The organization says dozens of settlers descended on the Occupied West Bank village of al-Maniya in mid-February, attacking homes, farming equipment and even residents.

While Israeli police forces demolished the outpost established in the village by settlers, B'Tselem says the outpost was later rebuilt that same day.

[11:29:52]

BASHIR: Dozens of Palestinian-herding communities have been impacted by the spread of outposts like this one. Essentially undefined settlements, usually made up of small structures or caravans.

Israeli anti-settlement watchdogs Peace Now and Kerem Navot say at least 49 outposts were established in the months following the October 7th attacks, an increase of nearly 50 percent since the beginning of the war in Gaza.

As of last December, the groups estimate that herding outposts covered almost 14 percent of the Occupied West Bank. That's an area of land roughly twice the size of Gaza.

And that's in addition to approximately 150 officially recognized settlements that have already been established in the West Bank. Both outposts and settlements are considered illegal under international law.

Satellite imagery analyzed by CNN shows how rapidly herding outposts have spread, as well as the gradual development of new roads connecting the outposts to established settlements, and in some cases, cutting Palestinians off from the land that they depend on.

In the northern village of Al Farisilya (ph), the local farming community has now been almost entirely depopulated. Back in February, we met the Daraghmeh (ph) family, at the time still desperately clinging on to their land.

"These hills are full of areas for our animals to feed. But now there are settlers over here, over there, and another one over there. We can't access these areas," Ahmed says. "The settlers come to scare our sheep and frighten our children. We've had to stop going up on the hills with our sheep, fearing they will come after us."

Ahmed's family says they have lived here for generations. The land, not only their home but also their livelihood.

"We've always lived here," Hussein says. "Our whole lives are here. Where else can we go?"

Since filming, members of the Daraghmeh family told CNN they were left with no choice but to abandon their homes. Acts of violence by settlers from nearby outposts are simply too much to bear.

Activists say outposts like those around the village of Al-Farisilya are established with the purpose of laying claim to Palestinian land and pressuring Palestinian communities to flee through threats, physical violence and direct attacks on resources, including livestock and farming equipment, often with the protection from both the military and the state.

CNN has reached out to the Israeli government about allegations of its support for illegal outposts, but has not received a response.

The Israeli military told CNN that it condemns violence in any form and that police are tasked with handling any Israeli violations of the law.

When asked about new roads we saw being developed around another nearby village, the IDF said the land had been seized for, quote, "operational needs", adding that the route is intended for use by security forces and that it has been developed in accordance with military orders. DROR ETKES, FOUNDER, KEREM NAVOT: It's important to understand that this project, this herding outpost campaign or this project is a national project, it's a state project. This is not a project which is initiated by individuals. It's a -- it's a project which the state of Israel is standing behind it. It's budgeting, yes. It's facilitating. It's protecting it.

BASHIR: The ministry of settlements, for example, has budgeted for outposts, which it calls young settlements, previously saying funds were carried out in accordance with all laws.

But the displacement of Palestinian herding communities is just one part of a deepening crisis in the West Bank. The U.N. says more than 40,000 Palestinians have been forced from their homes since February by an expanding Israeli military operation, with Israel's defense minister calling on the military to prevent the return of those displaced Stoking fears around the potential for a full annexation of the territory and crushing hopes for a pathway to a viable Palestinian state.

Nada Bashir, CNN -- in the Occupied West Bank.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: That report AS the United Nations Says, quote, "The line between settler and state violence has blurred to a vanishing point."

And the week ended with Hamas firing rockets into Israel from Gaza further threatening this ceasefire that had held for a couple of months and further raising fears of an all-out return to war.

Still to come, the key to Ukraine's survival. Former Pentagon official Celeste Wallander gives me her take.

[11:34:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

President Trump deployed the full weight of his presidency this week, but there's little to show yet. After a long call with Vladimir Putin, the Russian leader simply didn't agree to Trump's ceasefire proposal, the same one Ukraine's president has accepted.

But both have said they would cease fire on each other's energy infrastructure pending further talks. Now the two sides are already trading accusations of not sticking to that, continuing attacks since the phone calls.

My next guest believes Kyiv does not need to surrender in any event, even if American support falters.

Celeste Wallander oversaw U.S. military assistance to Ukraine as assistant secretary of Defense for international security affairs under President Biden. And she joined me to talk about this from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Celeste Wallander, welcome to the program.

CELESTE WALLANDER, FORMER PENTAGON OFFICIAL: Thanks so much, it's great to be here.

AMANPOUR: So, are you also scratching your head, or do you have a certain amount of clarity on what actually happened in that call between Putin and Trump, or the result of it?

WALLANDER: What's clear is that President Putin accepted almost nothing that was put before him in order to achieve an immediate ceasefire. The same deal that had been proposed to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that he accepted.

All that Putin accepted was the idea of an immediate cessation -- mutual cessation of both sides on attacks on energy infrastructure, not energy and infrastructure as the White House had hoped, but simply energy infrastructure.

But even that very, very small concession was completely overwritten by Russian actions and continuing attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure, but also civilian targets, like hospitals and apartment buildings.

So, I think the answer is, not much has been achieved and there's still a lot of work for the White House to do.

AMANPOUR: So, you've written about this. You know, Putin basically said as one of his conditions for any kind of ceasefire, this is just a temporary ceasefire, not even anything else, that there should be no more any external aid to Kyiv, not from Europe, not from the United States; no more intelligence sharing.

So, do you think, A, that U.S. military assistance and intelligence will continue given what Putin, you know, has done so far, which is not much?

And do you think, because you've written about this, that Europe can fill the gap?

WALLANDER: So, on the question of whether the United States will continue to deliver security assistance, after that brief unfortunate temporary pause in delivery, the United States has announced that it has continued to deliver security assistance.

But if that assistance were to be again paused or even perhaps suspended, it's really important to understand that over the past three years, Europe has ramped up its production. It has allocated financing to be able to purchase ammunition, air defense interceptors, military vehicles, radar systems on international markets as well as within Europe.

And so, over time, what was primarily a U.S. security assistance delivery early in 2022 with European help has now shifted to, in 2024, pretty much Europe taking the lead and delivering even more capability than the United States.

And Ukraine also can produce much of its own ammunition and also is incredibly adept at producing and innovating drone technology and the use of drones, which have proven so important in this fight.

So, taken together, if the United States were to pause, and I very much hope we do not, both because Ukraine needs the capabilities, but also to support President Trump's strategy of bringing Putin to the table, you're going to have to -- Putin's not going to come to the table and actually make compromises if he is -- has -- is playing the strong card on the military front.

And so, Ukraine has to be able to continue to defend its country for Putin to get serious about the negotiations that President Trump wants.

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you a different issue? You're, you know, ex- Pentagon. This purging at the Pentagon, anything DEI, these initials that have become poison. The Native American soldier who held the flag on Iwo Jima after it was liberated -- he and Native American contributions have been purged. What do you think of that and in general what these purges are doing, A, on the preparedness and readiness in the Pentagon and on the morale?

WALLANDER: It's frankly shocking. I mean, there is a very, very strong culture in the U.S. military and at the Pentagon, respecting every single member for their service. And to dismiss any individual, including very famous individuals well known for their sacrifices, sends a horrible message to the American service members and future service members.

[11:44:42]

WALLANDER: I think you have to be very worried if you are an American that the future soldiers, the future leaders of the American military, the people who keep us safe and secure and who sacrificed for this country will begin to ask a question about why would they do that?

Why would they serve a U.S. government that so quickly would dismiss individuals who had made those kinds of sacrifices? And the morale in the Pentagon, in the armed services is taking a serious hit, and that is bad for American security.

AMANPOUR: Celeste Wallander, former Pentagon official, thank you very much for joining us.

WALLANDER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: After the break, when water is weaponized in war, the harrowing realities. From my archive, the siege of Sarajevo and why it should be a warning for today.

[11:45:36]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Today is World Water Day, meant to focus our minds on the vital necessity of fresh water in a world where too many places just don't have it. And in some, water is being used as a weapon of war.

In Ukraine, Russian strikes on infrastructure have left millions without running water. And as Israel puts Gaza under siege again, cutting off fuel to the enclave means people there cannot access any clean water either.

These are tactics that have been used before. In Sarajevo, I saw firsthand the impact when Serbs cut off water supplies to the city during the siege, and the people who died just trying to find it.

This is my report from 1995, and a note that even today, it is difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: "It's awful," she says. "We have to do this."

This is drawing from a puddle on a grassy sidewalk or collecting the runoff from pipes. Rain means life in Sarajevo since Serbs cut the water a month ago. It also dampens the shelling a bit. Because of the danger, Zdenka Pregel (ph) mostly stays indoors, but the day before it was broiling hot and she, like everyone else, needed water.

ZDENKA PREGEL: Somewhere after the noon, we heard children screaming there is water. And the people started running down the stairs. There was a terrible explosion.

So after a moment of shock, I went down the stairs thinking of the water, not thinking of the shell.

AMANPOUR: A massive shell had landed 50 meters away in front of the building next door. Children had been playing in the sun. Two-year-old Belmina (ph) was dead. Shrapnel slashed her small skull. They're looking for her parents.

Some parents rushed to the stairwells. They were looking for their children.

PREGEL: I really and truly, at that moment was not thinking of the shell because I realized that it fell somewhere close. But I mean, this necessity for water, the need to go out for water. I think that at the moment we are really obsessed with the water.

AMANPOUR: But when she heard what had happened, that a child had been killed, that five others had been wounded, making it 14 dead, 32 wounded for water this week, Zdenka says she felt worse than at any other time in three years and two months under siege.

PREGEL: This is the feeling that people in this city have been forsaken by God and by the world, and that absolutely nobody gives a damn is happening to us.

AMANPOUR: Across town, Khaled (ph) and his wife Misa (ph) and the others remind us that they are living under the longest siege in modern history, dying not on the battlefield, but in water queues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's tragedy for civilization.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: A tragedy for civilization forsaken by the world. That report from Sarajevo, a stark reminder of the harrowing impact of siege, a weapon of war still being used today in Gaza, the warnings of Sarajevo unheeded.

When we return, why some French politicians want the Statue of Liberty back. And we remember the courage of the last surviving World War II pilot.

[11:53:49]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, some of the strongest overseas reaction to the Trump administration busting up the transatlantic alliance and cracking down on civil liberties at home is coming from France.

The French European parliament member Raphael Glucksmann is making headlines for suggesting that the U.S. should deliver the Statue of Liberty back to them. Glucksmann says the U.S. is no longer worthy of the monument, which was gifted almost 140 years ago.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAPHAEL GLUCKSMANN, EUROPOEAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER, FRANCE (through translator): To the Americans who have chosen to side with the tyrants, to the Americans who say researchers must have this proof of scientific freedom, we're going to say two things to the Americans.

First, give us back the Statue of Liberty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, the White House swiftly hit back.

KAROLINE LEAVITTE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: My advice to that unnamed low-level French politician would be to remind them that it's only because of the United States of America that the French are not speaking German right now. So they should be very grateful to our great country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Actually, one group we should all be very grateful for are those who fought in the Battle of Britain, like John Paddy Hemingway. He is the last surviving pilot who died this week at the age of 105.

[11:59:52]

AMANPOUR: Originally from Dublin, he joined the Royal Air Force as a teenager just before World War II. And Hemingway took to the skies with so many others to defend Britain and the world from a Nazi invasion.

It's a poignant reminder of the sacrifices made in the fight for freedom.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you all again next week.

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