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The Amanpour Hour
Interview With Former Assistant Defense Secretary For Indo- Pacific Affairs Ely Ratner; Interview With "Malcolm Lives!" Author Ibram X. Kendi; South Korea Elects Lee Jae-myung After Martial Law Crisis; Interview With "Our Dear Friends In Moscow" Co-Author Irina Borogan; Interview With "Our Dear Friends In Moscow" Co-Author Andrei Soldatov; Interview With Actor Tom Hanks; Interview With Composer For "Dead Outlaw" David Yazbek. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 07, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[11:00:45]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.
Here's where we're headed this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Amid a rising trade war, will the U.S. lead when it comes to China, or let Beijing shape the region's future?
ELY RATNER, FORMER ASSISTANT DEFENSE SECRETARY FOR INDO-PACIFIC: The reality is the United States is facing a generational challenge from China.
GOLODRYGA: Ely Ratner, Joe Biden's assistant secretary of Defense for the Indo-Pacific, weighs in.
Then "Malcolm Lives!".
IBRAM X. KENDI, AUTHOR, "MALCOLM LIVES!": He loved Fighting for justice. He loved lamb chops. He loved a good laugh. But he really loved a good book.
Award winning author Ibram X. Kendi tells me why he's writing about Malcolm X's legacy for a new generation.
And --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is time to replace hatred and confrontation with co-existence, reconciliation and solidarity.
GOLODRYGA: A turning point in South Korea. After months of chaos, the country elects a new leader.
Plus, "Our Dear Friends in Moscow".
ANDREI SOLDATOV, CO-AUTHOR, "OUR DEAR FRIENDS IN MOSCOW": It was a really big shock that many amongst the best and brightest in Russian society decided to side with Putin in this war.
GOLODRYGA: Exiled Russian journalists Irina Borogan and Andrei Soldatov reveal how their colleagues came to accept and enable Putin.
And from Christiane's archive --
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: They were not here for riches. They were not here to conquer anything. They were really here in order to mend the future.
GOLODRYGA: As the world marks the anniversary of D-Day, prolific chronicler of World War II Tom Hanks, explains why we must remember this day 81 years later.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga, sitting in for Christiane Amanpour in New York.
With Washington weighing whether it should get tough on China or soften its approach, for Trump, it's been, well, complicated. An admirer of the world's strongmen, which undoubtedly count President Xi among their number, he's also complained that the Chinese leader has been extraordinarily difficult to deal with.
This week, the two leaders had a long-awaited phone call. But as Trump tries to iron out the kinks of his trade war, what will these strained ties mean for future deals and competition between the world's two great powers?
In a new piece for "Foreign Affairs", my first guest argues the answer is that America needs a new NATO-like defense pact, an Asian alliance that will stand up to China. It's an idea he hopes Washington will get on board with.
Ely Ratner was Biden's assistant secretary of Defense for the Indo- Pacific and now heads the Marathon Initiative, founded by Elbridge Colby, who is currently the Pentagon's top policymaker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Eli, welcome to the program.
So, talk about the contours of this pact that you are proposing and how it differs from America's current political landscape in the Indo- Pacific.
RATNER: Well, Bianna, it's a great to be with you. And look, the reality is the United States is facing a generational challenge from China. We have a government there that's making enormous investments in its military and has very clear objectives to dominate Asia and the Indo-Pacific in a way that would be quite harmful to U.S. interests.
So, the central question in U.S. defense policy is, how do we prevent that from happening? How do we deter PLA Chinese aggression? And unfortunately, the models we have for doing in that in the past, which are based upon individual U.S. bilateral relationships with Asian countries are not going to be sufficient to deal with the mounting challenge.
And so, what I've proposed is bringing together our closest allies in a way that makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
GOLODRYGA: What more can the United States be doing in response to this increased aggression that we're seeing from China in the South China Sea there specifically? Because there are concerns that this will only increase over issues like mining for rare earth minerals, and even phishing (ph) in the phishing industry, which is a top priority for China to maintain?
[11:04:47]
RATNER: That's right. Well, there's a lot we can be doing and there's a lot we are doing. One is obviously it relates to the investments we're making in our own military, also in modernizing the deployment of U.S. forces forward-deployed in the Indo-Pacific.
But we're also enabling our partners, and really ground zero for the contest in the South China Sea has been in territories right off the coast of the Philippines. And we've been working hard to help modernize the Philippines military, but also bringing together our allies and partners so that it isn't just China picking on individual countries, but having to deal with the region as a whole.
And again, I think that's what we'll need going forward. The South China Sea is a vital waterway for the global economy. It's an area where countries around the world, as far as Europe, have very important national interests. And the world ought to be coming together to say, we don't accept this behavior and we're not going to allow China to dominate this critical passageway.
GOLODRYGA: Do we see any intelligence that would suggest that the previous notion that China was at least wanting to prepare to possibly retake Taiwan forcefully if need be by 2027, in just a matter of a few years -- has there been any intelligence or reporting that deviates from that assertion?
And if not, what do we know that the Trump administration has thus far done to address those concerns?
RATNER: Well, obviously I'm not going to talk about intelligence matters that I'm privy to, but what you are citing is previous CIA Secretary Burns did note publicly that China has directed the government -- Xi Jinping has directed his military to be prepared to invade Taiwan by 2027.
That doesn't mean that they are absolutely going to do it no matter what, but they want to be prepared to do it by 2027. And the task for the United States is to ensure that he cannot do that at acceptable cost.
And therefore, that Xi Jinping wakes up every morning, looks out the window, considers the cost of conflict, and says to himself, you know what, today's not the day. That's the central task in U.S. foreign policy. As it relates to the Trump administration, it will be important for them to continue working with allies and partners to counter the China challenge.
I think the good news on that front is thus far we have seen a lot of continuity, quite different from what we've seen in Europe, vis-a-vis NATO.
Secretary Hegseth made his first trip out to the Philippines and Japan. Just this last weekend he was on -- he was out in Singapore at a major Asian defense conference. And his message was one of U.S. commitment to the region and U.S. commitment to allies and partners. And that's really important that that continue.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Secretary Hegseth on Saturday said that no one should doubt America's commitment to our Indo-Pacific allies and partners. He repeatedly called the Indo-Pacific our priority theater and warned that threat from China could be imminent.
What, if anything though -- those are words and I'm sure encouraging words for allies in the region -- what, if anything, strategically have you seen the Trump administration do thus far to really back up those statements from what your administration had done under President Biden?
RATNER: Well, they have reportedly put together an interim national defense strategy, which has articulated China and the U.S. homeland. But the China challenge as the principle focus of the department, and we'll just have to see when their budget comes together, are they in fact putting resources after capabilities that are specifically oriented toward the Indo-Pacific?
We should also keep an eye on how they're deploying U.S. forces. For instance, when they were pulling aircraft carriers and air defenses to deal with challenges in the Middle East away from the Indo-Pacific, that did not reflect a prioritization on the Indo-Pacific.
However, those operations have wound down, and what we should be looking for is does the administration in practice, as you say, prioritize the Indo-Pacific with the way that it's managing the U.S. military?
Again, I think what we saw in Singapore was actually quite encouraging that the Trump administration is continuing a message of continuity about working with allies and partners.
I know Secretary Hegseth met with a number of our other defense leaders in the country in the country -- out in Singapore, including in that constellation of Japan, Philippines, and Australia and called that grouping none closer and absolute central to deterrent.
So, I think the work with allies and partners will continue in the areas such as helping them build their capabilities, working with them on a collective defense industrial base, and working with them on the ability of the United States to project power into the region.
So, those efforts continue, they should, and that continuity is good to see.
GOLODRYGA: Ely Ratner, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
RATNER: Great to be here. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Coming up later on the show, a closer look at a crucial U.S. ally in the Pacific, South Korea. As the country elects a new president, which way will he steer the country?
And next, bestselling author Ibram X. Kendi tells me why he's bringing Malcolm X's story to a new generation.
[11:09:47]
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KENDI: I thought, what better way to help commemorate his 100th birthday than to create a book about his life for young readers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to the program.
This year marks a century since the birth of Malcolm X, the influential and at times controversial civil rights leader and fiery spokesman for the Nation of Islam, who was ultimately assassinated in 1965 at the age of 39.
Now the focus of a new book by award-winning author and Professor Ibram X Kendi, "Malcolm Lives!" is a biography of the man for younger readers.
Earlier this week, I spoke with Kendi about his inspiration for the book, the complex nature of Malcolm X's legacy, and what parallels young readers can find in his life story.
Here's our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Ibram X. Kendi, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for joining us, and congratulations on yet another book, "Malcolm Lives!, the Official Biography of Malcolm X". This is coinciding with the 100-year mark of Malcolm X's birth. I know you've spent a number of years researching and writing this book, but did you do it to coincide with this mark?
KENDI: We did. And certainly, Malcolm X is one of the more important historical figures in American history and really in global history. And I knew that Malcolm loved a lot of things. He loved fighting for
justice. He loved lamb chops. He loved a good laugh. But he really loved a good book.
And I thought, what better way to help commemorate is his 100th birthday than to create a book about his life for young readers.
GOLODRYGA: You recount a number of incidents from the 20th century and then try to draw parallels in terms of the civil rights fight that young adults and young readers can relate to as well. Why was it important for you to not only give a historical account of some of what Malcolm X endured in his generation and fought against, and what younger readers may be more familiar with?
KENDI: Well, first, whenever I speak to young people, and frankly, it's similar when I speak to adults about history, one of the major questions is how does this relate to me, or how is this connected to me, or why does this -- why should this be important, to me or people that I love?
And so, I wanted to continuously show how, for instance, when Malcolm was a young person and he was hungry and that hunger was leading to him to sort of misbehave or even have to, you know, take apples from downtown stores that in the here and the now, they're still kids that are hungry, there are still young people that are hungry. There are still schools and other authorities that instead of looking at the hunger as -- at the -- as the problem they're looking at that child as the problem. And I suspect some kids reading the book will be able to relate to that.
GOLODRYGA: And we know Malcolm X had a complicated relationship and reputation actually in the Civil Rights Movement. He was at times dismissive of Martin Luther King Jr. and of the non-violence movement itself.
How do you address some of these more controversial aspects of Malcolm X's life in the book?
KENDI: Well, I think one of the most interesting aspects of the life of Malcolm X, and I would even add the life of Martin Luther King Jr., is that these were two figures, and in this case, Malcolm X, who was constantly growing and changing and transforming.
And so, while at one point he could deeply indict Martin Luther King Jr., at another point he can meet Martin Luther King Jr. in the halls of the U.S. Capitol and be smiling with him. And so, I tried to really show his ideological development and growth.
GOLODRYGA: We also know the Nation of Islam had espoused anti-Semitic views. Malcolm X had repeated some anti-Semitic tropes about Jews controlling the economy. What do you make of this particular aspect of his legacy? We know later on in his life, he distanced himself from the Nation of Islam.
KENDI: Well, I think that anti-Semitic ideas were widespread then, you know, as they are now. And Malcolm X, of course, like many others had been -- you know, had internalized some of those ideas. But at the same time, he started moving away from the Nation of Islam ideologically.
Of course, he left the Nation of Islam in 1964. And he, of course, through his trip to Mecca, and it was in this trip to Mecca where he realized that he was going to judge every human being not based on their identity or their race or their religion, you know, but based on their deeds.
And so, I think he -- that allowed him to have a different perspective of a number of different groups of people, you know, including white Judeo-Christians.
[11:19:52]
KENDI: And I think that allowed him, particularly during the last year of his life, to sort of serve as a basis for what became known as his human rights activism.
GOLODRYGA: It's safe to say a lot has changed in this country over the past five years following the murder of George Floyd in the summer of 2020. Back then, 67 percent of adult Americans supported the Black Lives Matter movement. "How to Become an Anti-Racist" was number one on "The New York Times" bestseller list.
I was struck by an answer you gave to a question in an interview about the impact that they have had looking back. And you said, it did not lead to the types of changes that we wanted. Racism is on the march.
Are you optimistic, however, that that can be combated once again by this generation?
KENDI: My radical hope doesn't necessarily stem from what's happening or not happening in society.
I believe you have to believe that something can be changed in order to put in the work that's going to lead to that change. Even if you recognize that changing said thing or eliminating racism seemingly is impossible, we as human communities can still believe the impossible is possible.
And frankly, human beings have done the impossible time and again. It was considered impossible to abolish chattel slavery or to end earlier forms of colonialism or feudalism. But we did it.
And so, why can't we end racism?
GOLODRYGA: Ibram X. Kendi, thank you so much.
KENDI: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: And you can see my full interview with Ibram X. Kendi online. Coming up, after six months of political chaos, South Korea has chosen
a new way forward. Why the election there this week matters for the nation and the world.
[11:21:45]
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GOLODRYGA: Welcome back.
A turbulent period of South Korean politics came to a climax this week, with a sweeping victory for the centrist candidate, Lee Jae- myung. The country's snap election was triggered by the impeachment of the former president, who drew condemnation at home and abroad when he made a declaration of martial law at the end of last year, spreading fears of a military coup.
Near China and neighboring North Korea, South Korea is in a uniquely vulnerable situation, making it very dependent on a hard-to-predict administration helmed by President Donald Trump.
So where will its new leader take it?
CNN's Mike Valerio has the latest on the election outcome and its implications.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: South Korea's new President Lee Jae- myung inheriting a tested nation and issuing a solemn vow that a brush with authoritarianism in his country will never happen again.
Our team in Seoul, witnessing the brief dark detour last December when his predecessor Yoon Suk-yeol, declared martial law -- sending the military to intimidate and arrest opposition lawmakers, an accusation Yoon denies.
We're here in the crowd and there are two military vehicles that are trying to get out of here. We're just a few blocks away from the National Assembly.
As democratic norms face growing challenges worldwide, Lee and his supporters say South Korea is a bright spot. Members of South Korea's parliament literally fighting back, blocking troops from entering the National Assembly.
Lee, himself livestreaming as he evaded the military, hopping a fence into parliament and later voting with others to cancel martial law.
It was a huge miscalculation for Yoon. Within six months he was impeached, removed and a new president elected.
LEE JAE-MYUNG, SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It is time to replace hatred and confrontation with co-existence, reconciliation and solidarity. VALERIO: Lee won with 49 percent of the vote, in part propelled by
women. Major protests against Yoon's martial law saw huge numbers of women join.
And Professor Cho Hee-kyung helps us understand why.
CHO HEE-KYUNG, LAW PROFESSOR, HONGIK UNIVERSITY: I think they really did feel That there were certain policies carried out by Yoon's government that was really unfair towards women and minorities in particular, and they wanted to stand up against it.
VALERIO: Such as?
CHO: Such as the declaration to abolish the Gender Equality Ministry. But there are also various other initiatives that were supposed to be helping single mothers.
VALERIO: On the world stage, analysts say Lee needs to show allies that South Korea's democracy is back.
KIM DUYEON, ADJUNCT SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: America, other foreign partners -- They will have an interest in how strong South Korea's democratic institutions are and democratic practices are because it all affects their relationship and especially the increasing competition between what we're seeing between authoritarian states and democratic states in the world.
VALERIO: Lee will also need to avoid trade war fire and fury from U.S. President Donald Trump. It will be up to Lee to decide what South Korea accepts as a Trump trade deal with the country's tech titans and auto giants especially vulnerable to tariffs.
[11:29:49]
VALERIO: Lee and Trump have never met in person, but experts say they need to forge a working rapport as the U.S. stations nearly 30,000 troops in South Korea as a check against China and North Korea.
In a pivot from the last administration, Lee pledged to restart talks with North Korea and said the South Korean military is more than ready to confront any threat from the North. But Retired General Chun In-bum urges caution.
GEN. CHUN IN-BUM (RET), SOUTH KOREAN ARMY: Every day, North Koreans have become stronger, especially with their new relationship with the Russians and their experience that they have gained in Ukraine. My underlying belief is you should never underestimate your enemy.
VALERIO: For now, South Korea is back from the brink. Lee, charged with forging a new chapter, resolve and a reset after martial law.
Mike Valerio, CNN -- Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Up next, investigative journalists Irina Borogan and Andrei Soldatov tell me how Vladimir Putin's regime crushed the dreams of an entire generation. All of the details in their new book called "Our Dear Friends in Moscow", when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOLDATOV: We want to understand what prompted these people to support this clearly brutal and horrible war with Ukraine.
[11:31:07]
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GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to the program.
Russia is still reeling after Ukraine's daring Operation: Spider Web drone attack against the country's bomber aircraft. In a phone call with President Trump, Vladimir Putin supposedly vowed to retaliate after the surprise strike proved just how far Ukraine's forces can penetrate deep into Russia's heartland. It also dealt a serious blow to Russia's military pride and its carefully cultivated image of invincibility.
How that image is maintained and valued by Putin and the Kremlin is understood by very few.
Now, in a new book called "Our Dear Friends in Moscow", exiled Russian investigative journalists Irina Borogan and Andrei Soldatov set out to explore just that, how and why their former colleagues in the press came to accept and even enable Vladimir Putin's regime.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Irina and Andrei, welcome to the program.
Let's talk about the book, because I think we learn a lot about how we got here into a war that's now into its third year given your own personal experiences as journalists in writing this book.
And Andrei, it begins in the first year of Putin's presidency where the two of you were working at a newspaper, it was called "Segodnya", which means "Today", it was one of the most popular newspapers at the time. It ends with the two of you living in exile in the United Kingdom.
And Andrei, you being on the most wanted list in Russia. And all the while you talk about the growing tension and then the breakup in relationships that you had with friends and fellow journalists who chose very differing paths.
You obviously choosing one to speak out against Putin's growing authoritarianism, your friends choosing another. Why did you go about writing this story from such a personal perspective?
SOLDATOV: Because when the full-scale invasion started in 2022, it was a really big shock that many amongst say, the best and brightest, in Russian society decided to side with Putin in this war. And we wanted to understand what prompted these people to support this
clearly brutal and horrible war with Ukraine.
So we decided to talk and to reach out to people we used to know very close. Now, most of them occupy very significant positions in power, including the minister of culture, for instance, to try to understand their reasoning. And because -- maybe because of what we had this common past and we used to be friends, most of them agreed to talk to us.
And so, this is our attempt to understand their reasoning and to understand why we making these choices, why they were making their choices, and why it was so different from what we saw back then.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And your friends, we should note, weren't uneducated, they were highly-educated. They were not susceptible to Russian propaganda. And yet, such divergent paths.
You write in the book, it is a personal story since they were our friends at a time when we could never have imagined that our lives, our perceptions of truth, and our hopes for our country could diverge so profoundly.
The current minister of culture, Olga Lyubimova, Irina, if you can tell us a little bit about her and your relationship with her and some of the conversations you've now subsequently had with her as you were investigating and writing this book.
IRINA BOROGAN, CO-AUTHOR, "OUR DEAR FRIENDS IN MOSCOW": I met Olga Lyubimova who is now the Russian minister of culture when she was in her early 20s. So, she was literally like 21, 22 years old, not older and she was a very attractive young woman, a little bit Bohemian.
[11:39:50]
BOROGAN: She liked parties a lot. She smoked. She drank. And so, she was just, he -- she was a student at School of Journalists of Moscow State University. And she was charming.
He came from a -- she came from a family of a famous Russian actor and her -- just all her family is very, very cultural and important for the Russian culture.
And she was -- she was liberal. She was very, very liberal. And I could not have imagined back then that she sided with Putin during the war. And she became a person who's involved in reeducation of kids on the occupied territories.
And of course, it was impossible to imagine that Olga will be in charge of all promotion and she will be supervising the production of government-sponsored movies about the war, praising the war in Ukraine.
GOLODRYGA: Irina, as you now are living in exile, I'm wondering what your message is for the world and mostly for the next generation of Russians, because there is this perception, and I'd like for you to address it in the West, outside of Russia, that perhaps you and Andrei are now the outliers, in the minority, of where the Russian public stands.
BOROGAN: There are a lot of people who are against the war, against Kremlin right now in Moscow, in St. Petersburg and other places in Russia.
But remember, they're all fairly -- they're all scared of the Kremlin because you can be punished a lot for just telling the truth to people or just discussing the war in Ukraine or just putting -- posting anything about the war on your social media.
It happens every day in Russia that somebody was being sent to prison for telling the truth on Facebook or VKontakte (ph) which is analog of Facebook.
So, don't judge Russians by the rules of the freedom countries like the U.S. or the U.K.
GOLODRYGA: Irina Borogan, Andrei Soldatov, your work continues as dangerous as it may be, sadly, living in exile now for three years, a very poignant book.
Thank you so much joining us.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROGAN: Thank you very much for having us here.
SOLDATOV: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: In a moment, 81 years since the allied forces began liberating Europe from Nazi control as the world marks the anniversary of D-Day. History buff and World War II chronicler Tom Hanks on why those stories must be told up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANKS: They left absolutely all of -- all of the comforts of a very comfortable America, safe America on the other side of the ocean. And they put themselves here for what? Because it was the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:42:55]
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GOLODRYGA: Welcome back.
It's been 81 years since D-Day, when Allied Forces stormed the beaches of Normandy, beginning the liberation of Western Europe from Nazi control. With war raging in Europe and democracy under threat yet again, D-
Day's legacy is a reminder of the ultimate sacrifice that millions of people made to defeat tyranny.
This year, almost two dozen of those World War II veterans made the journey back to Normandy to honor the memory of their brothers in arms.
Actor Tom Hanks has also been instrumental in preserving the stories of that heroic generation, most notably playing Cap.t Miller in the haunting scenes of "Saving Private Ryan" and going on to produce the acclaimed series "Band of Brothers", "The Pacific" and most recently, "Masters of the Air".
Last year, on the 80th anniversary of D-Day, he sat down with Christiane to discuss the price of freedom and why we must pass those stories on to future generations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Tom Hanks, welcome.
HANKS: Christiane, how nice to see you.
AMANPOUR: And here you -- this is almost --
HANKS: What a day.
AMANPOUR: -- your home as well.
HANKS: What a day.
AMANPOUR: I mean, you've done so much on World War II. I just want to know what it feels like to be here on the 80th. It may be the last of these reunions.
HANKS: I don't -- I mean, I -- we -- if you do the math, if you were -- say you were 17 years old, and you were making your first trip into combat on June 6th of 1944, you would do the math, you're now 97 years old.
That they're here -- I mean, the first thing I say to any of the veterans that I happen to meet is, don't get up, you know, because, you know, they're
more or less wheelchair-bound.
But there they are resplendent in their patches and their hats and their caps and the memories, and I ponder what these last 80 years have been for them.
I want to ask them, what's the most extraordinary thing you've witnessed since that day? And there's an awful lot to take note of. But would any of it have happened if this day had not been?
AMANPOUR: Well, I wonder, you know, since you lead me straight into that question.
It's probably -- ok, bar the Cold War, when there wasn't a raging war in Europe -- it's probably the most difficult, most existential crisis for everybody since their sacrifice, with Russia having invaded Ukraine, with a literal raging war in Europe.
[11:49:55]
HANKS: I never thought there'd be a land war in Europe in my lifetime once again, because it had proven to be so disastrous for all of humanity the last time somebody tried that. And it's funny how often it comes out of the ego of one human being. One guy back in the 1930s says, no, I'm going to solve all these problems because I know what works and what does not work.
I think -- you know, look, I'm a lay historian and I'm as opinionated as any knothead that you're ever going to come across. But there was this thought that America -- particularly America, was lazy, was divided, was undisciplined, that couldn't get its act together, wouldn't -- that would never band together in order just to do the right thing by choice.
And when I'm here, I think of a bunch of kids. It was a young force that came here. They were somewhere between -- if you were 25 years old, they called you pops or they called you the old man.
And they -- and they were -- they left absolute all of the comforts of a very comfortable America, safe America on the other side of the ocean. And they put themselves here for what? Because it was the right thing to do.
And they were not defending the status quo. They were not gaining territory. They were not here for riches. They were not here to conquer anything. They were really here in order to mend the future, if I can coin a word that has just come out in a book that I read not too long ago.
Had D-Day not happened -- and that's not hard to imagine here, you can look around and we can see the invasion in our minds, we can see that day, but we can also imagine with a little bit of turn of frame, what if it had not happened, if this had stayed as it had been, a conquered territory by one of the most murderous regimes -- there we go, I think FedEx is delivering my Uber lunch right now.
What would have been like if all those -- that young forces, and the Canadians, and the English, and all of the free (ph) countries had not come along and said those people are wrong.
AMANPOUR: Do you think it'll get more difficult now that the vets -- I mean, you know, they've reached and are reaching the end of their lives, to pass the stories along?
HANKS: I would like to think that there's anything me and my knothead friends have done down at the office has brought great currency to the stories that those men tell.
And everything that comes out of them I think is a precious bit of scripture that should be read and studied.
AMANPOUR: Tom Hanks, thank you so much.
HANKS: Pleasure to talk.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
HANKS: What a day. What a day.
AMANPOUR: What a day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: As Europe fights against tyranny yet again, really powerful to reflect the honor and heroes who gave their lives to protect freedom and democracy.
When we come back, a celebration of art as theater's leading men and reigning divas head to the Tony Awards. Why one of the nominees is getting raves for his play about a dead outlaw. That's next.
[11:52:48]
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GOLODRYGA: And finally, this weekend, the best and the brightest of America's theater scene are glamming up for the Tony Awards, a hotly- contended year where a spate of bold new musicals have taken over the Great White Way.
Among them, one with an unusual twist. Its leading man is dead for much of the runtime. Even stranger, it's a true story. "Dead Outlaw" tells the tale of Elmer McCurdy, an outlaw in early 20th century America killed in a shootout. His embalmed body was put on display and taken all over the country as a sideshow attraction.
It's a bizarre subject for a musical, but one that our next guest couldn't shake. David Yazbek co-wrote the music and lyrics. And he told me how life for Elmer McCurdy really began the moment he died.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID YAZBEK, COMPOSER, "DEAD OUTLAW": He pretty Much got everything he wanted after his death.
He became a famous -- very briefly he was famous as the guy who tried to rob the Osage Indian train, but robbed the wrong train. And then his body was exhibited all over the country and ended up being in silent films, then sound films, and he had a very successful showbiz career after his death.
GOLODRYGA: As a corpse. As a corpse?
YAZBEK: As a corpse.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. For decades to come. And Andrew Durand, I mean, hats off to him. He is the actor who plays Elmer. And most of the rest of the play then he's actually playing himself as a corpse.
What brought about that idea? Because one could argue that he didn't need to be on stage, or he could have been in a coffin. It would have still told the same story.
Was it to make the audience feel uncomfortable or to wait to see if he blinked? I mean, what was it?
YAZBEK: It's -- you know, Andrew Durand spends the first half singing six banger songs, including one where he pretty much wrecks up the entire stage. And he just blows you away.
And then he is a stiff in a coffin for the rest. And that was really our director, David Cromer's idea. He said, we need him on stage as a witness to everything that happened to Elmer's mummy basically after his death.
[11:59:50]
YAZBEK: The exploitation, the fact that his name was forgotten up until the point that he was discovered. Having the actor there as a silent witness to all this stuff is very poignant. It can also be very funny.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: It is a very funny show, I must say. Good luck to David Yazbek and everyone else this weekend at the Tonys.
Well, that's all we have time for today. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.
I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York. Thanks so much for watching. I'll see you again next week.
