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The Amanpour Hour
Interview With Civil Rights Activist Martin Luther King III; Interview With Michigan Democratic Senator And Former CIA Analyst Elissa Slotkin; Interview With Former Hostage Held In Gaza Liat Beinin Atzili; Interview With "Holding Liat" Director Brandon Kramer; U.K. Government Grapples With Palestine Action Protests; Inside Bin Laden's al-Qaeda Training Camp In Afghanistan. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 13, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:00:35]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone, and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.
Here's where we're headed this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: America and much of the world in shock after the assassination of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk. With political violence continuing to escalate, I speak to Martin Luther King III.
Plus, Trump wants to be the peacemaker. Netanyahu and Putin are making that difficult. Former CIA and Pentagon analyst Senator Elissa Slotkin joins me.
Then after the dangerous escalation in the Middle East, Liat Beinin Atzili, held hostage by Hamas for 54 days, bares all about that torturous journey.
Plus, why has the United Kingdom branded these senior citizens "terrorists"? Isobel Yeung investigates.
And from my archives, 24 years after 9/11, inside Bin Laden's al-Qaeda training camps.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
Swift condemnation from here abroad this week after the assassination of President Trump's key ally, 31-year-old Charlie Kirk, leader of America's conservative youth movement.
Trump calls it a dark moment for America. Indeed, instead of fostering a small pause for national unity, it seems to have done the contrary. Even a moment of silence called in Congress devolved into a raucous
shouting match, while President Trump blamed the radical left wing. Also ignoring the fact that two Democrat politicians were shot in Minnesota in June, killing one of them alongside her husband.
From Japan to Europe recently, assassins have targeted top politicians too. The climate is so poisonous, ripping people apart in the halls of power and at their own dining table.
Martin Luther King III has experienced this violence firsthand. He's the son of the civil rights leader, Dr. King, who was assassinated in 1968. He joined me from Atlanta, right as the manhunt for Kirk's killer was underway.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome to our program.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: You have direct personal experience with what has happened. what can you tell me is your reaction to what's happened?
KING III: Well, my first reaction from my wife and I is to extend our condolences to the Kirk family, to Charlie Kirk's wife and two young children.
As you stated, I personally understand because I was so young when my father was killed.
We, as a nation, have to always reject rhetoric and violence. Violence is never the answer. We, as a nation must grow past what is going on. This is -- it's -- number one, it's not sustainable.
I mean, my dad and mom taught us how to disagree without being disagreeable. And we must find a way to teach that to everyone.
AMANPOUR: I thought one of the most important reactions from a leader in America was from George W. Bush, who essentially wrote, "Members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens." He says, "May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family and may God guide America towards civility."
Can America be guided to civility and much of the world as well?
KING III: The real question is, we have the ability, but do we have the will? How do you dig deep into the will to actually, number one, treat people with civility, whether you agree or disagree?
There are many positions I disagree with, but that does not mean that we should go a further step and to try to silence someone. That is insane. And we keep doing the same thing over and over again.
I remember in 1968, there were -- when my father was killed, 100 cities across America were actually -- where rioting occurred. The one city, a major city that it didn't was in Indianapolis. [11:04:47]
KING III: And why? Because Robert Kennedy made a profound statement to encourage the community to think about how they respond to this tragedy of dad being killed. And that city did not go up in flames.
So, my point is leadership on all sides must exhibit a different kind of tone than the rhetoric that we continue to embrace.
My dad would say, and I'm -- I still believe this, nonviolence. We must learn nonviolence or we may face nonexistence.
AMANPOUR: At this point, I would like to play a little bit of an interview I did with Charlie Kirk years ago.
You know, at the time, he was willing to entertain some limits or controls on gun ownership. His views did shift in later years, but even then, he was doing what he's known for and what he was doing on the Utah campus, engaging openly in debate on contentious political topics.
So, here's a little bit of what Charlie Kirk told me back in 2018.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE KIRK, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Look, it's not an easy discussion. It's a highly personal issue. And for those of us that own weapons and those of us that take this really personally, you have to understand that there is this fear that government's going to take our guns away. And that's not going to happen.
But it's a conversation worth having. And look, it transcends politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Can we, though, even have those conversations now?
KING III: Well, at the end of the day, I don't know if it's a matter of can, it is more a matter of we must, because if we refuse to have these conversations and this kind of behavior continues to exhibit itself and exist, as I say, humankind will be no more. And we have lost our humanity over these last few years.
I think we must create a climate where people want to work together, even if they don't agree. There's something that all of us as human beings can agree on. And probably we have to start at that one issue.
And we must elevate that and continue to dialogue, continue to discuss. We can get past these times, but it's not going to happen overnight and easily.
But it will -- it can happen if our political leadership, if our religious leadership, if our business leadership are collectively to join and say, this is the way we should resolve conflict. This is the way that is sustainable, because it really is about how do we sustain human beings?
AMANPOUR: Exactly.
Martin Luther King III, thank you so much for your wisdom and historic experience personally and firsthand. Thank you very much.
KING III: Thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Next week, President Trump comes here to the United Kingdom for a state visit hosted by King Charles III at a very dark moment on the geopolitical stage when military moves against U.S. allies are putting the president in a tricky situation.
More on that next.
[11:07:46]
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
After the Israeli strike on the Hamas negotiating team this week in Qatar, which hosts the American backed mediation efforts, its prime minister told CNN how this will impact hostage families.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED ABDULRAHMAN AL THANI, QATARI PRIME MINISTER: And I think that what Netanyahu has done yesterday, he just killed any hope for those -- for those hostages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Dramatic indeed. While an unprecedented Russian drone foray into a NATO nation sparked this comment from Poland's foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski, who said we can only hope now that President Trump realizes Putin is stringing him along. They're calling for much tougher economic moves against Putin and more anti-air defense systems for themselves.
For his part, Trump criticized all this escalation by Israel and Russia. But is he ready to go further than that?
That is what I asked Michigan Democratic senator and former CIA analyst Elissa Slotkin. And just to note, we spoke before the shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Welcome to the program, Senator.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Thanks for having me.
AMANPOUR: So, I want to ask you as an American rather than a Democrat or Republican, you are a Democratic senator. But this surely is a moment of truth for America and its alliances.
And I want you to pick which issue to take first. I can't tell which is more important or more dangerous -- Israel's, you know, unprovoked, unprecedented attack on negotiators in U.S. ally Qatar without even telling the U.S.; or Russia's major escalation into NATO airspace?
SLOTKIN: It is kind of interesting and ironic that all of this is happening at the same time. I think with Russia, I mean, if you just review the data points, you know, from Trump rolling out the red carpet for Putin, you know, we know he wants to win the Nobel Prize for his work on bringing an end to a war there and in the Middle East.
He rolls out the red carpet, he cozies up to him. And the data points since then are basically like a thumb in the eye to Trump, right?
He -- Putin goes and does this big event with the Chinese leadership. He launches the largest assault on Kyiv since the beginning of the war and now is testing, like a toddler, the sort of NATO limits by sending drones over.
And I'm glad that the Poles have called for consultations. I'm glad that we're having this conversation.
[11:14:48]
SLOTKIN: I personally think we have to send a strong message back to Putin because he is clearly walking all over President Trump.
And, you know, I don't think a Nobel Prize is in his future for the president. So, it is an interesting development that we need to respond to.
AMANPOUR: So, calling for consultations is officially known as Article 4. That would potentially lead to Article 5, which, Senator, you remember at the time President Biden and all the NATO leaders in the early years of this war kept saying not one inch. If Russia strayed one inch inside NATO territory, whether by air, land, or sea, then it would trigger a full NATO response.
I mean, look, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. I know nobody wants to go to direct war with Russia. But on the other hand, what is the signal then that you say needs to be sent now?
SLOTKIN: Yes. Well, certainly, I think the president has been dragging his feet on a bipartisan proposal on another round of sanctions. The bill is ready to go. It's co-led by both a Democrat and a Republican. We could do that tomorrow.
And the president has been reluctant to do that, thinking he can be the one who kind of convinces Putin to think -- to listen to his better angels.
I think the other thing that's extremely important is that we have to have, you know, all of our NATO allies right there on the eastern flank with a much stronger military posture. And so, a more aggressive defense posture at a minimum. But sanctions
for me are -- this is the moment in my mind that we actually do what we've been proposing for the last eight months and do another round of sanctions on the Russians.
AMANPOUR: And now, what about the other escalation where the U.S. has direct leverage, doesn't need to get into a war to do this, but it has direct leverage with Israel.
The U.S. didn't know. They were informed, apparently, as this thing was underway. What should the U.S. posture be now?
SLOTKIN: Well, certainly, I think we should recognize that this is also a change. I mean, to review the bidding, the United States asked the Qataris years ago to set up an office so that they could engage with Hamas, right?
Years and years ago, Israelis and others needed a place where they could negotiate. We needed a place where we can have these conversations. And we asked the Qataris to set up a location in their own country.
The place of the attack, a well-heeled neighborhood, 18 miles from Al Udeid Air Force Base, where we have 10,000 Americans, where the Qataris just helped defend against Iranian ballistic missiles just a couple of months ago.
So, this is a partner in Qatar that we work with quite a bit and depend on for the safety of our American soldiers there.
So, it is definitely a big moment. We haven't had Israel take military action, overt military action against a Gulf state, to my knowledge, ever. And certainly, using fixed-wing aircraft is a -- it's a major decision.
You heard a pretty strongly-worded statement from the president about, you know, not approving the strike, not knowing, and this not moving us anywhere positive towards peace.
It took out, I think, from what I understand, some low-level members, but not leadership. And so -- but the idea that we're going to have a negotiated end to this war now seems further off than certainly it was.
And the United States is -- again, has some decisions to make. I can only imagine what the conversations have been between the White House and Bibi Netanyahu since this puts President Trump again in a really tough spot.
He said he was going to solve this crisis like in day one. Again, he wants the Nobel Peace Prize to solve this longstanding problem. And we seem much further from that today than we did two days ago.
AMANPOUR: So, again, the U.S. has leverage. You believe it should put sanctions on Russia for what Putin's doing.
Should it, as you said you would have voted to do in July, suspend offensive weapons to Israel?
SLOTKIN: The president of the United States directs foreign policy in the United States of America. And we have tremendous leverage to have really tough conversations with both allies and adversaries.
And I think though, to me, the president should be using some of that leverage. Everyone wants a final hostage deal to bring people home.
SLOTKIN: The president of the United States could solve this problem by having firm conversations with Bibi Netanyahu tomorrow. The votes come up here because that's our only hook into foreign policy to this issue whatsoever.
But the tools are at the Pentagon, at the CIA, and at the White House in terms of the things that we share. Those conversations can be happening tomorrow if the president is actually going to follow up his words from today with Bibi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Coming up next on the program, we hear from a freed Israeli hostage Liat Beinin Atzili about the latest threat to those who remain in captivity and her own family's harrowing journey to get her home.
[11:19:32]
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
As European and Arab nations join Qatar and the U.N. to condemn Israel's unprecedented airstrikes on Doha this week, in Israel hostage families fear the attack has derailed a ceasefire deal to finally bring their loved ones home.
Now, a new documentary called "Holding Liat" lays bare the torment of those families grappling with the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th and also with Israel's war on Gaza that has killed more than 60,000 Palestinian men, women and children and is now besieging and starving them too.
[11:24:51]
AMANPOUR: Here's a clip from the trailer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's no way of knowing how much longer this is going to go on.
Who's holding her? Is she in a house? Is she in a cave? Is she being fed? Does she have her glasses? The longer it takes, the harder it is to stay positive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no guarantee that either of them are cutting out of this alive. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We just got the list. And unfortunately, Liat is not on today's list.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want them back. Why are you making it so you're so understanding about their considerations? They're playing games.
AMANPOUR: A family in torment. Liat Atzili, who was returned after 54 days in Hamas captivity and the film's director, Brandon Kramer, joined me with their very personal story of struggle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.
It is such an interesting film. I'm going to get to your tragedy in a moment, but as a film, I don't know, what did you think even of that clip because they get your parents, your sister, even some of your children -- and warts and all.
I mean, Brandon captured it, warts and all. No sugarcoating, you know, the arguments, the tensions, the differing views about what was going on with you.
LIAT BEININ ATZILI, FORMER HOSTAGE HELD IN GAZA AND HUSBAND WAS KILLED IN OCTOBER 7 HAMAS ATTACKS: I know my family well.
AMANPOUR: So, it wasn't a surprise.
ATZILI: It wasn't, it wasn't. They told me a lot of what had happened while I was away. But still seeing it for -- and seeing it for the first time on film, it was, it was very, very emotional, and funny. And I was crying, and laughing, and it just, all of a sudden, everything came to life.
And I sort of got a deeper understanding and appreciation of what my family had been through, and what they'd done.
AMANPOUR: Yes. And I mean, you endured a tragedy. You endured 50-plus days of captivity. You were released in one of the deals that was struck actually to return hostages. But your husband did not make it, and you had to come back to face that knowledge as well.
ATZILI: Yes. That -- obviously, that was the most difficult thing. On the day that I returned, we still thought that he might be alive, and that he was being held hostage.
We just -- we found out that a day later that he'd been killed. And so, that's been very challenging to deal with that.
AMANPOUR: While you take a moment, let me ask you, Brandon, Aviv was killed. You somehow got this family to -- I want to know the mechanics of how you managed to get inside the family in such an intimate and real-time way, as they were, you know, desperately seeking, you know, solutions to their daughter's plight and their son-in-law's.
BRANDON KRAMER, DIRECTOR, "HOLDING LIAT": Yes. I mean, I'm very close with Liat's family. I've known them for over 20 years.
And, you know, a week after Liat and Aviv went missing, Liat's father, Liat's son, and Liat's sister all came to Washington, D.C., where my brother and I are documentary filmmakers.
And we started filming. We thought it would just be a few days. You know, we thought we'd put something together really short. And as we were filming, we saw that what they were experiencing was a story so drastically different than the story of the other hostages or hostage families that was being presented in the media and on social media.
I mean, Liat's father was within days advocating for peace and reconciliation. Her son had barely survived the attack and was deeply traumatized. Her sister didn't want politics to be a part of this at all.
And here in front of our camera was three generations of one family navigating their grief in different ways and their political differences.
AMANPOUR: It is, in that regard, remarkable.
So this is your father, the father, who is in Senator Chris Van Hollen's office and he's talking about desperately wanting information and movement on his, you know, daughter and son-in-law. And he expresses the day after wishes as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YEHUDA BEININ, FATHER OF LIAT BEININ ATZILI: In the name of my daughter and her husband as part of the hostage release, I think the most important message after this is all over is the question, now what?
The reconciliation with the Palestinians is probably the single most important thing that can actually affect a change for the better in the long run.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Again, Brandon, I don't know about you, but for me, that's humbling.
KRAMER: Yes. I mean, look, you know, watching Yehuda, watching Liat, you know, we didn't know that Liat was going to come out when we started making this film. And when she was released.
[11:29:42]
KRAMER: For me as a filmmaker and a storyteller, it was a profound thing to document the story of somebody that has suffered what you've suffered, 54 days in captivity, losing your husband and still emerging with the ability to look on the other side of the fence and care.
AMANPOUR: Liat, tell us, it's documented in the film, obviously, and it's, you know, some of the most compelling testimony as well, how you survived. What happened when you were ripped from your house, where were you taken and how were you treated for those 54 days?
ATZILI: I was taken to Khan Younis, which is a city in the Gaza Strip. And I was taken to the home of one of the people who kidnapped me from my home.
And I met his family there. And I think they were a little bit surprised that their son came back from wherever with this woman. And they treated me very well.
I think it's still -- it's still an unusual story. A lot of the other hostages obviously weren't treated as well. And we've seen terrible pictures and heard horrible stories about what other people have gone through.
And they saw that as part of their -- I don't know, their job in guarding me and another woman who I was with. They kept saying that it was their job to keep us healthy and to keep us well until we were released in a deal.
So, a lot of luck.
AMANPOUR: A lot of luck.
ATZILI: Yes.
AMANPOUR: A lot of luck in a terrible situation.
ATZILI: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Well, this film is, I hope, and I feel is going to open a lot of people's eyes, not just for the humanity of what you've been discussing in your own story, but for the bigger, bigger story as well.
So, you know, Liat, thank you so much for being here. And, Brandon, congratulations. Well done on a really moving and exceptional film.
KRAMER: Thank you so much for having us.
ATZILI: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Liat told me that incredibly, she has in fact refurbished her devastated home in Nir Oz and she's moving back there hoping to get a new community into that kibbutz.
The film opened here in the U.K. on Friday and is playing at select film festivals and preview screenings in the United States ahead of its planned January 2026 release.
After a break protesting the Gaza war and the free speech debate shaking up the United Kingdom. Even the elderly and the disabled arrested in demonstrations. And we have a special report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So are they terrorists?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that -- the criminal justice system will have to deal with them. And my --
YEUNG: But you're saying they are terrorists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:32:30]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
This week, a brand-new Banksy mural appeared in London, just outside the royal courts of justice. Now, this is usually a matter of excited celebration on the streets and in the art world.
But this piece, depicting a judge hitting a protester was covered up before being scrubbed away. The artist could hardly have hoped for a more timely response, as the U.K. publicly and messily grapples with the right to protest.
Last week, nearly 900 people were arrested here in London at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action. The government had declared it a terrorist organization which organizers and supporters strongly refute.
Correspondent Isobel Yeung has all the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YEUNG: The police might be about to arrest her.
Why does the U.K. government think these seniors are terrorists?
YEUNG: Have you been arrested before?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, never, never.
YEUNG: Never?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I don't do things like this.
YEUNG: Their stories are at the heart of a debate roiling the UK. How far is too far to oppose the war in Gaza? Millions of people around the world have turned out on the streets, including in London.
But almost two years on from Hamas' October 7th attack on Israel, over 60,000 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed. Mass starvation continues to spread. For some, protesting is just not enough.
Palestine Action is a U.K.-based group of hundreds of individuals. They accuse the U.K. arms industry of complicity in supporting Israel's government. They have targeted Israeli weapons factories, destroyed British military equipment, and even vandalized U.S. President Donald Trump's golf course.
This June action on a British Air Base was seen as a step too far by the U.K. government, who designated them a terrorist organization, meaning anyone taking part in these actions could face terrorism charges.
Audrey Corno, who just turned 23, studied dance and drama. She's been a member of the group. She's vandalized the U.K. Defense headquarters, and just a few months ago, she occupied a factory she claimed was supplying military equipment to Israel. She spent two months in jail.
[11:39:46]
YEUNG: So now, you're out on bail, you have an ankle tag that you have to wear, you've got a curfew, you're waiting for your court hearing.
AUDREY CORNO, FORMER MEMBER, PALESTINE ACTION: Yes.
YEUNG: What are the maximum potential consequences to this?
CORNO: The maximum term of 10 years imprisonment.
YEUNG: Would these actions have been worth it?
CORNO: Yes, of course.
YEUNG: What would it have been worth it for?
CORNO: It's everyone's responsibility to do everything in our power to stop a genocide from happening.
YEUNG: And there will obviously be people watching this who will think, you know, you don't know enough about it. You haven't been to Israel or to Gaza, have you?
CORNO: No.
YEUNG: You don't know enough about the situation, and you are just jumping on the bandwagon. What would you say to them?
CORNO: Well, this isn't a bandwagon. The more I learned about how deeply complicit Britain is in the supply of arms to Israel and in fueling this genocide, the more I realized that the comfort that I enjoy living in London is soaked in Palestinian blood.
YEUNG: Now, the U.K. government has designated Palestine Action a terrorist group. Even holding a sign in support is illegal, sparking fears that free speech itself is being stifled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a sign that says "action against genocide".
YEUNG: Anyone showing any support for this group, even holding up a sign, is currently being arrested, which means hundreds of people here are being arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just follow me, madam. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly a terrorist in your hands there, yes?
YEUNG: Things are getting very rowdy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey, hey, hey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People who have committed offenses will be arrested.
YEUNG: Everyone will be arrested?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone that's committed offenses will be arrested.
YEUNG: So, essentially, everyone holding a sign will be arrested?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that sign falls within the remnants of (INAUDIBLE).
YEUNG: Saying that they support Palestine Action?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to fight against things that are wrong, and this is wrong. Not being allowed to speak about it is wrong.
Palestine Action weren't a terrorist group. They didn't -- haven't harmed anybody. What Israel is doing is terrorism.
JOHN WOODCOCK, MEMBER, HOUSE OF LORDS, UNITED KINGDOM: The essential case against Palestine Action --
YEUNG): The politician John Woodcock, Lord Walney, was the U.K. government's independent adviser on political violence and disruption. The 300-page report he wrote last year was a major factor in banning Palestine Action under antiterrorism laws.
WOODCOCK: I take real exception to that idea of this being a peaceful protest. The definition of terrorism absolutely encompasses the kind of economic damage for political cause, which Palestine Action have systematically carried out.
YEUNG: You're putting them in the same category as ISIS, and al-Qaeda, and Hamas.
WOODCOCK: So, I think that there is a gap in the law which identified in my report that there is a category of criminal behavior that is politically motivated, which can fall under the definition of terrorism that at the moment there is not the sufficient tools to be able to stop and deter.
YEUNG: Half of the people that I saw at the protest were over 60. I spoke to a 70-something-year-old grandma, literally holding up a sign --
WOODCOCK: Yes.
YEUNG: -- and getting arrested. I mean --
WOODCOCK: Yes.
YEUNG: -- they are not what people think of when they think of terrorists.
WOODCOCK: No, no, no, sure. But --
YEUNG: So, are they terrorists?
WOODCOCK: Well, that -- the criminal justice system will have to deal with them. And my --
(CROSSTALK)
YEUNG: But you are saying they are terrorists.
WOODCOCK: No. I'm saying that if you --
(CROSSTALK)
YEUNG: But you're not answering the question. Are they -- do you see them as terrorists?
WOODCOCK: If you -- if you --
YEUNG: Well, you're the one -- you are the one pushing this prescription, so, surely you think that they are terrorists.
WOODCOCK: Well, ok, let me --if you break the law, then, you face having a criminal record.
YEUNG: A terrorist.
WOODCOCK: You face having a criminal record. And so -- and they know that.
(CROSSTALK)
YEUNG: Associated terrorist.
WOODCOCK: And they know that and that's why they are doing it.
YEUNG: Are you the right person to be advising -- to have been advising the U.K. government on this? I mean, you were the head of Labour Friends of Israel. WOODCOCK: Yes.
YEUNG: You have taken several all-expenses trips paid to Israel. And so, you can understand, you know, why people would question your motivations.
WOODCOCK: I could understand why they -- why they would want to, because they don't want to account for their -- for their own act -- for their own actions.
But people will make up their own minds on me. The -- my interest in declarations have -- are out in the open and that's why you're able to talk about it.
We ought to be able to say it's not ok to break the law and to terrorize working people.
YEUNG: In the meantime, other activists continue to take direct action --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are still locked on. Police arrived --
YEUNG: -- against arms manufacturers they accuse of complicity in the bombing of Gaza.
[11:44:49]
YEUNG: And protesters holding up signs continue to risk arrest to support Palestine Action.
Isobel Yeung, CNN -- London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: The British government says it's banned Palestine Action because it waged a campaign, including using weapons and violence against people, which would have been irresponsible to ignore, they said. But the government hasn't provided any evidence for those claims.
And in a moment, 24 years since Osama bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks on America. From my archives, finding an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan.
[11:45:24]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back.
24 years ago on September 11th, 2001, as those planes hit the Twin Towers and changed the world forever, I was world's away on assignment in Sierra Leone before CNN airlifted me back to Europe and sent me to Pakistan and then onto Afghanistan as the United States and its allies launched a major military response to that attack on the homeland swiftly dispatching Osama bin Laden and his Taliban hosts. On the outskirts of Kandahar, I found opposition leader and later president, Hamid Karzai, and I interviewed him there about the future by lamplight.
In Kandahar, my team and I also discovered the Taliban chief, Mullah Omar's compound. And shortly after we found important evidence of bin Laden's plots, his al-Qaeda training camp and the last place he lived before fleeing.
From my archives, here is that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The aging Soviet artillery pieces defending Osama bin Laden's Leva training camp near Kandahar Airport were no match for massive U.S. airstrikes.
No sign of bin Laden's militants, dead or alive here, but behind this broken mud wall, plenty of evidence of their military training. This assault course with monkey frame and hurdles, a mock tunnel, and high bars all covered in war paint, a barbed wire entanglement to crawl under.
What we realized after looking around was that this appears to be the place where all those bin Laden training videos were shot. Those videos that have now been broadcast so many times on worldwide television.
In the rubble of this sprawling camp, more evidence of the relatively unsophisticated training routines for the people accused of the worst terrorist act in history.
And this handwritten notebook in Arabic contains instructions, similar to the countless manuals found in al-Qaeda houses in Kabul and other Afghan towns. Intentions listed in English, how to make arsine gas and mustard gas.
On this page, it says home brew gas nerve or nerve gas. On another, a picture of an octagonal building. Over the page, instructions on how to manually measure the distance to a tank.
U.S. and British Special Forces have already combed this place for clues. The Afghan fighters who've taken over Kandahar are busy looting what's left.
The commander says this is where Osama bin Laden himself lived. Nearby, an underground bunker is full of clothes and evidence of a hasty departure.
All that remains alive here is one of bin Laden's horses. Perhaps he too was once a prop in the most famous terrorist training video ever shown.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Scary to remember, but 24 years later, the results are bleak at best. Forever wars, the rise of the military security industrial complex, millions of refugees -- a cocktail of failure that's blown all the way back to the West adding to the rapid poisoning of our political and even our own personal discourse and amplified by social media.
When we come back, we're off to the Emmys as this year's multi-nominee Stephen Graham tells me what would be the best victory for his show, "Adolescence".
[11:53:53]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: And finally, the great and the good of the silver screen are getting all dressed up for the red carpet and the Primetime Emmy Awards this Sunday. It's been a blockbuster year for TV, with shows like "Severance", "The Pitt", and "Hacks" racking up acclaim.
Among those tipped for big wins is the grim little British series that could. It's nominated for 13 Emmys. It's called "Adolescence".
It became a landmark piece of television and a bellwether of society, with its brutal and bracing story of online misogyny and its real-life consequences.
It's extraordinary as each episode is filmed without a break in a single long take. Breakout star and co-creator Stephen Graham surely won't mind an Emmy or two, but the veteran actor told me this is what he really hopes people take away from it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN GRAHAM, CO-CREATER, "ADOLESCENCE": My wife said what she feels our program has achieved is for parents to be able to open that bedroom door now and talk to their children, be they male or female, and ask them what's going on.
Let's just, you know, look, you know yourself when you go to a restaurant sometimes, and no disrespect, I understand it, but kids, kids are sat there with on -- you know, talk to your -- talk to each other, ask each other what's going on. That's the only way we can understand what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:59:54]
AMANPOUR: Good luck to him and the rest of the nominees this weekend. And what he says -- talk to each other, discuss what's going on is perhaps more relevant than ever as we see what happened in the United States this week.
That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.
I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.
