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The Amanpour Hour

Interview With Former U.K. Ambassador To The United States Sir Peter Westmacott; Interview With The New United Nations General Assembly President Annalena Baerbock; Chilean Mother Reunites With Stolen Twins After 47 Years; Interview With Actor And "Poems And Prayers" Author Matthew McConaughey; Remembering Robert Redford; Moment Of Truth For Democracy. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired September 20, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:44]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR, everyone. Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: A royal welcome for President Trump on his historic second state visit to the U.K.

I speak to Britain's former ambassador to the United States, Sir Peter Westmacott.

Plus, as the wars in Gaza and Ukraine cast a shadow over the U.N. General Assembly, I look ahead with its new president and former German foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock.

ANNALENA BAERBOCK, UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY PRESIDENT: This is a moment to reflect again why in the darkest hours of history this institution was built.

AMANPOUR: Then -- a mother's joy reunited with her twin daughters 45 years after Chile's Pinochet dictatorship stole them from her.

Also, some southern charm, faith and poetry with the Oscar winning actor Matthew McConaughey.

And from my archives, a look back at the life and legacy of Hollywood icon and environmentalist Robert Redford.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London, where this week the U.K. rolled out the reddest of red carpets for President Donald Trump's unprecedented second state visit.

Prime Minister Keir Starmer and King Charles III courted the American leader with all the royal pomp Britain can muster. And it paid off and it didn't. A $42 billion tech deal pact was announced, but tariffs on key British industries like steel remain in place.

Now many Brits themselves weren't thrilled with the visit. The president's old sparring partner, London Mayor Sadiq Khan, accused Trump of fanning the flames of division around the world while this image of the president with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was projected on Windsor Castle by protesters.

At the formal state banquet, King Charles let it be known where Britain stands on the most important security matter for Europe, and that is Russian aggression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING CHARLES III, UNITED KINGDOM: In two world wars, we fought together to defeat the forces of tyranny. Today, as tyranny once again threatens Europe, we and our allies stand together in support of Ukraine to deter aggression and secure peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: We were in Windsor watching the day's event, and I spoke with Sir Peter Westmacott, a former U.K. ambassador to the United States and also former deputy private secretary to then-Prince Charles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program.

I wonder what you must be thinking already of this state visit. What is going through your mind as you've obviously been watching all the pageantry? What should Britain expect?

SIR PETER WESTMACOTT, FORMER U.K. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: I think so far, it's exactly the kind of, you know, pageantry and protocol and special treatment which the president, I hope would have wished.

On the substance, Christiane, I mean, there is a great deal there, but I suppose just picking out a couple of the most important points.

One, of course, is trade. Now, the U.K. is fairly pleased that it's got a better deal on tariffs after Keir Starmer's successful visit at the Oval Office back in February than a lot of America's other trading partners, but it's still a good deal worse in terms of terms of trade than what we had beforehand.

On the foreign policy side, I mean, there's lots to talk about. You touched on it just then.

I would have thought the area where the U.K. will most want to make progress is on Donald Trump's approach to Ukraine. From the Western point of view, European point of view, it looks as though every time there's been an opportunity or a deadline which Trump has set for Putin to behave better, it passes and there is no sanction and nothing happens and he gets more red carpet in Alaska or wherever it happens to be.

And I think the message that the U.K. will be wanting to try to get across is not that this is just Europe's security problem, this really matters for the United States as well. And I'm not sure we've done a good enough job about convincing the president that that is the case.

[11:04:42]

AMANPOUR: So, you know King Charles, you knew him as Prince of Wales, you worked for him, as I said.

And I just wonder, do you think that even though it's not his role to have political discussions with the president, that he might be able to do what you just said, make it much clearer why, for Britain and for Europe, the issue of Ukraine and making sure that Ukraine does not get swallowed up by Russia is so vitally important for both the U.S. and us?

WESTMACOTT: Well, you know, the king is somebody who has his own very well-informed views on a lot of issues.

You would have seen that without saying anything, he showed what he thought of Trump's attempt to say Canada is for the United States by making quite a public fuss of Mark Carney in Canada.

And you've seen also that he made a point of seeing President Zelenskyy not very long after he was treated not very kindly, shall we say, in the Oval Office.

So, I think there may well be ways in which he can, if you like, nudge the president in a different direction and perhaps help him to see some of these really important international security issues in a slightly different light.

Will the king want to do that as well as the prime minister? You know, I can't predict, but I do know that he is not a shrinking violet.

AMANPOUR: Now, look, you wrote recently, in anticipation of this visit, you've done, it's -- I think it's in today's newspapers, that essentially Britain also needs to get more transactional. Trump is transactional. Britain needs to do the same thing. What do you mean by that?

WESTMACOTT: Well, it's partly what I was just saying, Christiane, which is to remind the United States that Europeans are not all just a bunch of freeloaders, least of all the United Kingdom.

Now, actually, I happen to think that the president slightly excludes the U.K. from his more general view, strictures on the European Union.

But I think we need to make sure that he realizes, for example, that the British taxpayer is going to be spending, you know, billions of pounds to ensure that American strategic bombers can continue to use Diego Garcia, a British overseas territory, where Brits will be picking up the bill. It's important to remember that there are very important American defense and intelligence facilities in places like the Falklands, like Cyprus, certainly Diego Garcia, Ascension Island in the Atlantic, and, of course, in the United Kingdom as well.

I'm not suggesting there are quid pro quos that we need to be demanding in exchange for this, but I think it's important that we counter the idea that it's all take by the Europeans and that the Americans are doing all the giving.

Trump likes to do deals. He likes to be transactional. I think we should not be shy in reminding him of the importance of the United Kingdom's contribution.

And I sometimes wonder whether President Trump is adequately informed about the real contribution that we all do make.

AMANPOUR: I want to play this little bit of a sound that -- I mean, a soundbite from President Trump earlier when the -- a gang of European leaders, a group of European leaders, went to the White House.

And he was talking about how he was being called sort of king of Europe or president of Europe. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They jokingly call me the president of Europe. They call me the president of Europe, which is an honor. I like Europe, and I like those people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: I'm going to ask you what you make of that, but also, in conjunction with the fact that President Trump has alienated a lot of allies, not just adversaries, but allies as well.

WESTMACOTT: I think that's right. A number of the European governments, some of them more outspoken than others, have been concerned about the attacks on free trade, about the undermining of international institutions, about what he's been doing to the rule of law, about the politicization of many of the institutions in America, and indeed the checks and balances being rolled over with a compliant Supreme Court and a Congress which on many issues isn't really doing what it's supposed to do in terms of standing up independently to what the executive is up to.

So, I think a lot of America's allies, while dying to see America, you know, exercise its rule as the leader of the free world effectively, are concerned by some of the direction of travel (ph), not least on these issues of free trade and prosperity and international security, which matter so much to all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Coming up later on the show, with world leaders gathering for next week's annual U.N. summit in New York, UNGA's new president, the former German foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, speaks to me about the pressing global challenges ahead.

Also, the award-winning actor with that certain southern comfort, Matthew McConaughey talks faith, poetry and family.

[11:09:22]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Now all eyes turn to New York next week, where world leaders will gather for the biggest diplomatic stage at the United Nations General Assembly.

The wars in Ukraine and Gaza are expected to dominate the agenda, with more countries moving to recognize a Palestinian state amid a cataclysmic new Israeli air and ground invasion of Gaza City.

65,000 Palestinian men, women and children have been killed since October 7th, almost two years ago. And with no ceasefire in the offing, the remaining hostages have still not been released.

So the stakes could hardly be higher as the U.N. tries to maintain its relevance in a fractured world.

[11:14:46]

AMANPOUR: And presiding over this year's session amid such a welter of global crises, is the former German foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Madam President of the General Assembly, welcome to the program.

BAERBOCK: Thanks for having me again.

AMANPOUR: And congratulations, one of the rare women who've been elected and appointed to this position.

But let me first ask you, in your opening remarks, you said, this is no ordinary session, the one that gets underway with the top world leaders next week. What do you mean by that?

BAERBOCK: Well, in a normal world, we would really celebrate next week because our United Nation turns 80 years old. This is a lifespan.

But if we look around the world from Gaza, Ukraine, Sudan, climate crisis hitting everywhere, we are not really in a celebrating mood.

We need this institution, which brings together the world to solve problems more than ever. But at the same time, this institution is under heavy pressure, financially and politically.

So, this is a moment to reflect again why in the darkest hours of history this institution was built and how we can preserve it, but also reform it to make it fit for the future, fit for the 21st century.

AMANPOUR: Why do you think -- is it the leadership structure? What do you think it is?

BAERBOCK: It's the political will of the International Community. And thanks for asking this question because there are some people out there saying, so obviously we don't need this institution anymore.

But the world would be in no way better off without the UN, because the U.N. is not only the Security Council, where we see often a blockage which causes many, many problems to not move forward on peace and security.

But the U.N. is also UNICEF, the organization for children. Without UNICEF, for example, 100 million children couldn't go to school last year.

Without the World Food Programme, 125 million people would have literally starved because they wouldn't have received food.

So, there are every day big successes of the International Community. But at the same time, we see that for the purpose of peace and security, unfortunately, we are not moving forward.

And this is why there is a reform underway, also making clear that the General Assembly, which represents the 193 member states, should take more responsibility in this area.

AMANPOUR: So, when you talk about leadership, here's what Russia said about your appointment. The deputy ambassador to the U.N. said in May, "Ms. Baerbock has repeatedly proved her incompetence, extreme bias, and lack of understanding of the basic principles of diplomacy."

Now, this is about, you know, your valid and NATO and the E.U.'s and the U.S., you know, pushback on Russia's invasion and its interference.

How do you react to what the Russian deputy ambassador said? And why do you think they keep pushing the envelope instead of being told to get back in their box?

BAERBOCK: The charter of the United Nations is very clear that the invasion of another country, breaching the sovereign right of another country is a dire (ph) violation of international law.

And therefore, the General Assembly I'm representing has been crystal clear in many resolutions that the sovereignty of Ukraine is a right to Ukraine, like any other nation in the world, and that the invasion, the full-scale invasion, has to end.

And it calls on all actors in the world, it calls on Russia to end this invasion and to get into a dialogue on peace.

And this is the role also of the president of the General Assembly to underline this position by the world's parliament, the General Assembly.

AMANPOUR: Now, as you well know, many nations, including Europeans and others, are about to recognize a Palestinian State at the U.N. But the U.S. has denied visas for the Palestinian Authority president, the internationally and Israeli-recognized president of the Palestinian Authority, Abbas, and 80 other Palestinian officials.

Now, there is a vote this week on letting Abbas address the assembly by satellite or remotely, Zoom or whatever you want to say. Will you, as president of the assembly, vote or agree to allow that to happen?

BAERBOCK: Well, first of all, let me say the situation in Gaza is unacceptable. And we have seen that there's very rare moments where we did have a short ceasefire.

This was not only a relief moment for the people suffering in Gaza, that medicine, that food could come in, but this was also the moment when hostages, Israeli hostages, could be freed and were brought back to their families.

So, it is crystal clear this long-standing conflict between Israel and Gaza cannot be ended by war, neither by occupation, not by terror.

[11:19:52]

BAERBOCK: And therefore, the declaration of New York is so clear. We need this irreversible pathway towards a two-state solution. We need a ceasefire. Now, we need humanitarian access and the release of all hostages.

And therefore, the General Assembly has also made very, very clear that this topic has to be addressed at the General Assembly. This is why we have the United Nations, that in the darkest hours we come together.

AMANPOUR: But can you tell me, yes or no, if he cannot come, will he address in some other way?

BAERBOCK: We are making sure that there's a way to address. But as you said, the vote is tomorrow. So, you should take ahead the vote. But there are preparations ongoing because it's the purpose of the United Nations to hear in this kind of situation all the voices which have to be heard.

AMANPOUR: Thank you, president of the UNGA, Annalena Baerbock. Thank you very much.

BAERBOCK: Thanks a lot. All the best.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Up next, hope and a dream fulfilled. How one mother in Chile was reunited with her twin girls 45 years after they were stolen from her. That story next.

[11:21:03] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to a heartwarming story of love and reunion after almost half a century.

45 years ago, a Chilean mother was robbed of her children by the country's cruel dictatorship. They did it to thousands of women and then sold children into adoption. But Maria Veronica Soto never gave up hope when her twin daughters were robbed. And this week, they finally found their way back to her.

Rafael Romo tells us about a truly incredible journey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There were no words needed for this hug that had to wait over 45 years.

It is the cry of a mother who for decades feared her twin daughters were lost forever.

Their story begins in 1979 when Chile was under the dictatorship of General Augusto Pinochet and a young single 18-year-old mother gave birth to twin girls.

Maria Veronica Soto says after a routine doctor's visit, a government clinic took her then 8-month-old babies from her, accusing her of not feeding them properly. Soto says the birth certificate was altered to say that no parent had shown up to register the babies.

According to Chilean officials, from 1973 to 1990, during the dictatorship, thousands of babies were stolen from their biological mothers and sold into adoption mainly to foreign couples from the United States and Europe. In Chile, they're known as the "Children of Silence".

Maria Veronica Soto says she never lost hope of reuniting with her daughters. That's why praying for a match, in 2020 she sent a genetic sample to a DNA bank in the United States designed to help connect children with their lost biological parents.

MARIA VERONICA SOTO, BIOLOGICAL MOTHER (through translator): And I said in this little envelope goes all my hopes of finding my girls. And so it was.

ROMO: It took five years, but finally across the Atlantic, one of the twins children decided to take a DNA test In Italy, the country where they were raised.

The son of one of the twins sent her mother's DNA sample to the bank and it was confirmed as a match that led to a long-distance phone call and this emotional reunion.

In June, for the first time in the country's history, a Chilean judge announced he was prosecuting individuals alleged to have stolen babies in the South American nation. The judge charged and issued arrest warrants for five people who he

said should remain in pretrial detention for criminal association, child abduction and willful misconduct.

No investigation can ever do justice to the decades this mother spent apart from her twin daughters.

SOTO: God heard me so many times I asked the moon and the stars about my daughters. And they too asked, where's mom?

ROMO: Soto and her twins say both families were deceived, their family in Chile and their adoptive parents in Italy, who didn't know the girls had been taken away from their biological mother.

MARIA BEATRICE MEREAU CHESSA, BIOLOGICAL DAUGHTER (through translator): So many emotions and very happy because we finally found our mother. And now we will enjoy these moments, which are few, but it is really worth it because we found her again and we want to be with her, with the family, all the brothers, all the uncles, all the cousins, everybody.

ROMO: Even though she spent nearly half a century apart from her twin daughters, Soto considers herself blessed. There are many mothers, she said, who have yet to find their long-lost children and others who died waiting for a reunion like hers that never materialized.

Rafael Romo, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And more light, in a moment. Movie star and author Matthew McConaughey opens up to me about faith, family and what inspired him to write his latest book, "Poems and Prayers".

[11:29:48]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR AND AUTHOR: I believe that belief is in short supply right now, and we need it. It's necessary for our own survival. And if we let the doubt win, we all lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

You know him as the Texas-born star with that unmistakable drawl. He is the Oscar-winning actor behind films like "Dallas Buyers' Club" and "Interstellar", and the charming lead of rom com favorites like "How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days".

[11:34:52]

AMANPOUR: But he's also a bestselling author with his memoir "Greenlights". And now, in addition to playing the hero in "The Lost Bus", a new thriller about the California wildfires, he's turning to poetry.

We recently caught up to discuss his faith-filled journey and his inspiration for "Poems and Prayers".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Matthew McConaughey, welcome back to our program.

MCCONAUGHEY: Good to be back, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: You are becoming a prolific author. Certainly, "Greenlights", your last one, became a best-seller. What is -- is that kind of what led you to write a new one, this current one?

MCCONAUGHEY: Well, I enjoyed the writing process of "Greenlights" so much. And I didn't have the confidence to write before then. And it was my wife who helped me write that because when I told her, I said, look, I have this treasure chest full of all these journals and, hey, when I die, do you mind looking at that and seeing if anything's worth sharing?

And she very graciously just gave me the middle finger and said, you do it, I'm not doing it.

So, she kicked me out of the house and I went off away with those journals, and for about three weeks alone, found some themes and some ways that I'd been thinking the same way since I was 15 years old at 50.

And I started to write and I started to enjoy it.

AMANPOUR: You know, what was it that you were thinking about since you were 15?

MCCONAUGHEY: Oh, well, the early -- you know, 15 to 25 were the big existential young questions. Why? You know, who am I in this world? Why does the world work this way?

How much is it fate? All those wonderful questions. Who am I, you know.

I've always been interested in trying to get to know myself as well as possible.

The "Poems and Prayers" came along because I found myself a couple years ago, Christiane, I'm getting a little bit cynical, too cynical for my taste.

And I'm looking around at the evidence. I'm looking at the facts of the world and I'm turning on the news and I'm going, man, I don't -- I'm not seeing people and things happening to believe in.

AMANPOUR: Yes. MCCONAUGHEY: And so, I started to objectify, started to get at people and things and not give people the benefit of the doubt. And I started to do that with myself as well.

So, I got kind of first scared and then angry with myself. And I said, all right, if we're not seeing evidence of the world and finding belief in that, let's go to dreams and ideals and the pursuits of divinity and try to make dreams a reality.

Let's go to poems and prayers, and believe in that.

AMANPOUR: So, just to be clear, you are a person of faith. You're a believer.

MCCONAUGHEY: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Yes, and spirituality.

MCCONAUGHEY: Well, I would say religious. I'd go one step further. I believe in God. Now -- and I'm working on this and I want to strengthen my relationship in that faith.

But this book and what I'm writing about is not exclusive to only people that believe in God or not. I believe anyone out there who believes in their better self or their transcendent self or believes in their kids or believes in the future or believes in their past.

Any philosophy that is, that as long as it's not tyrannical and harming a bunch of people, oh, please, believe in that more.

AMANPOUR: So, I want to ask you, because we've got a couple of poems. I mean, obviously the book is full of poems and prayers, but there are a couple that we'd like you to read from.

The first one would be "Doubt Faith". If you wouldn't mind reading that one.

MCCONAUGHEY: "Doubt Faith". Yes. "In this life, in our mind, through our eyes and on each day, doubt is logical and reasonable. Faith is not.

Faith does not rid doubt. Rather, it carries us through it. May our faith outshine our doubt."

AMANPOUR: Yes. I mean, it's a bit of a manifesto, right? Would you say that pretty much sums up what you're thinking throughout this whole book?

MCCONAUGHEY: I believe that belief is in short supply right now, and we need it. It's necessary for our own survival. And if we let the doubt win, we all lose, as far as I can tell. That math adds up.

So, let's find those things that we value in our life, the things we care about, the people we care about.

And you know what, people that say, I don't know what to believe in. A great place to start is go, well, who would you die for? What would you die for? Start there.

AMANPOUR: You are religious, as you've told me, and you are best known for being an actor.

I just wondered what it's like on set. Do you communicate your religious beliefs, feelings, or this kind of really interesting conversation to fellow actors, or do you separate the two?

MCCONAUGHEY: No, I talk openly. And I'm also not out -- I'm not -- I'm not out pursuing conversion. I have these conversations and have many conversations with many friends of mine who would call themselves agnostic.

We do not disagree on certain principles and the ways and rules of engagement in life with ourselves and others. I may get to the end and go, "and therefore, God exists".

[11:39:47]

MCCONAUGHEY: But like when I heard Carl Sagan break down the universe for three hours, he did it, I opened my mind up, I listened, and at the very end, my line was I was going to go, "And therefore, God exists".

But what he said was, "And therefore, God doesn't exist". We didn't agree on -- we didn't disagree on anything the first three hours. And what he did was built my faith up, but he -- his point was, "And therefore, God doesn't exist".

We had a wonderful laugh at that. Because we were so -- it was beautiful how we got there.

AMANPOUR: Now, you have a new film out, of course, it's called "The Lost Bus". Your real-life mother is in it with you.

What was it like? And also, your son. I mean, three generations of McConaugheys. What was that like?

MCCONAUGHEY: Well, it was -- it was wonderful. I never thought of that, never dreamed of it, never hoped it would happen, never tried to really make it happen.

It was our director, Paul Greengrass, who cast my son, even though when I pulled his last name off the read that he had on camera, he got it on his own without his last name.

And then my mother, who Paul needed to cast someone for my mother, he goes, what about your mom? I said, well, she's 93. She actually just fell -- busted her tailbone. She's in a wheelchair. He said, that be perfect for the part?

I said, well, let me get her in front of you first. And he goes, yes, give me something on camera. I said, mom, give me a minute on why you love being a mother. She sends an eight-minute video.

He looks at it and goes, great. She's it. That's who I want. So, all of a sudden, I'm on set with my mom and my son.

And the other night, I must say, we had -- we premiered at the Toronto Film Festival, to be between those two, as a father to my son on the right and a son to my mother on the left, who's 93. And to see them beaming -- one just getting started, one feeling great relevance in doing this in her life, was a wonderful bridge and place to be for myself.

AMANPOUR: Well, that's a wonderful place to be.

Matthew McConaughey, thank you very much indeed.

MCCONAUGHEY: I enjoyed that and look forward to the next time, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And I know even McConaughey will acknowledge our next guest to be a Hollywood legend and movie idol, a leading man who we dig into in my archive for a stroll through cinematic history with the late and great Robert Redford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR: And he's part of the deal, you know. He's part of the picture. And you can't shy away from it. You can't turn away from it. It's just real. Just live with it, be with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:41:57]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

This week, the world lost a giant of cinema. Robert Redford died at the age of 89. He was famed for his glowing good looks and his captivating performances. Though he never wanted to be known as just a handsome Hollywood hunk.

And indeed, his films helped define a new era in film. From "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid", to "The Sting", to "All the President's Men" and love stories like "The Way We Were".

From my archive this week, our conversation a few years ago when we met to discuss and project some of his most influential work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REDFORD: As I got older and went into acting, I was drawn to the idea of outlaw characters. What's really interesting though, but I don't how many people have picked up in terms of Paul Newman and I is that when we did "Butch Cassidy" initially, he was offered the Sundance Kid. And I was going to be Butch Cassidy. And then, I met with the director, and when I met with George Roy

Hill, I said, well, yes, I could do that but I'm much more drawn to the Sundance Kid. And he got convinced of this.

So, I played Sundance. So, they switched the title. It was originally going to be "The Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy".

AMANPOUR: Well, we have to play, you know, the iconic clip from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid", which is practically at the -- at the end of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL NEWMAN, ACTOR: All right. I'll jump first.

REDFORD: No.

NEWMAN: Then you jump first.

REDFORD: No, I said.

NEWMAN: What's the matter with you?

REDFORD: I can't swim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: That gave you a whole new exposure. I mean, that was what launched you into the career that you're now, you know, apparently retiring from. Are you really retiring?

REDFORD: No, I don't use --

AMANPOUR: Is this really your last film?

REDFORD: No, no. I think that's a mistake. I should never have said anything like that.

I think just moving into a different territory. I've acted long enough, you know.

AMANPOUR: I mean obviously you're phenomenal directing films for which you got an Oscar with "Ordinary People" back in 1980.

REDFORD: Yes. That was surprising.

AMANPOUR: What was it about the subject matter at that time in suburban America that made you want to do that film?

REDFORD: Because I was very drawn to the idea that a lot of people wanted to appear to be something they weren't. And that a lot of people were not really happy, but tried to appear to be happy.

And when I went into that territory in Lake Forest, Illinois I realized that there were a lot of people there that what was really important to them is how they looked, how they seemed, their lawn was cut, you know.

And yet underneath that was perhaps a different story, a darker one. And I was very attracted to that idea. But let's -- let's explore the darker underpinnings of what seemed to be a very happy, positive life.

AMANPOUR: And so in this, in this family, as I said, one of the -- one of the sons drowned, died in a sailing accident. And the clip we're going to play and of course, that's the Oscar you got for that film, for directing is, is the son, the surviving son, explaining to his psychiatrist the guilt he feels.

REDFORD: Yes.

[11:49:52]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feelings are scary, and sometimes they're painful. And if you can't feel pain, then you're not going to feel anything else either. You know what I'm saying?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REDFORD: Pains part of the deal. You know? Pains part of the picture, and you can't shy away from it. You can't turn away from it. It's just real. Just live with it, be with it.

But also there's another side to that. Be with that, too. And then it's more balanced. If you try to deny pain, if you try to deny darkness, then you're going down a one-way street and it's a two-way street. I think you have to acknowledge both.

AMANPOUR: Another thing that is a dark cloud around all of us right now is this notion of where is the truth? It just so happens that one of the greatest films you made, "All the President's Men", is all about investigating, holding accountable, and looking for the truth.

I want to play this little clip. This is Deep Throat talking to you in that basement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REDFORD: Supposedly he's got a lawyer with $25,000 in a brown paper bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Follow the money.

REDFORD: What do you mean, where?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I can't tell you that.

REDFORD: But you could tell me that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I have to do this my way. You tell me what you know, and I'll confirm. I'll keep you in the right direction if I can. But that's all. Just follow the money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REDFORD: So that still applies.

AMANPOUR: Still applies?

REDFORD: What was appealing to me was not so much the subject at hand as it was their relationship. I was drawn to the fact that two guys who were very different, one guy was a Republican, the other guy was a liberal. One guy was a wasp, the other guy was a Jew. They really didn't get along. They didn't much care for each other, but they had to work together.

And so for me, the film was about their relationship having to come together to get to the truth.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: A roster of his equally impressive co-stars from Jane Fonda to Meryl Streep and Barbra Streisand, expressed their love and their heartbreak at his death.

And beyond that remarkable body of work, Redford was a passionate advocate for the environmental causes and the rights of Native Americans.

He also founded the Sundance Film Festival and the institute, which has enabled so many independent filmmakers to carve their own path.

When we come back, as America marks 238 years since the signing of its Constitution, fears over free speech abound.

Now, in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination, we have lessons from abroad.

[11:52:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally, is this a moment of truth for democracy, another inflection point? The assassination of the conservative youth activist Charlie Kirk shows the deeply-divided, indeed poisonous partisanship is clearly untenable. And it cries out for a nation, an America, a world in which political opponents are not treated as mortal enemies as President George W. Bush points out.

And yet, concerns are rising about a political crackdown in the aftermath. After all, the chief White House policy adviser, Stephen Miller, did say they will disrupt and destroy a vast domestic terror movement on the left.

Now, this week, after huge pressure from FCC chair Brendan Carr, who said we can either do this the easy way or the hard way, Disney ABC has pulled late night comedian Jimmy Kimmel's show off the air indefinitely after an off-color joke. As a global correspondent, I recall this exchange I had with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan about complaining to the German government over a comedian's joke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Why do you care? Why is it so important for you to make a big deal about this? And doesn't it show that you have a very thin skin and that actually, by making a big deal about this, people know about it, whereas people may not have known about it if you hadn't bothered with it at all.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): Well, I must put it in very frank terms. We shouldn't confuse criticism with insult and defamation. whether it be satire or not, Everything has to have boundaries.

We have laws in place, and laws allow you to have freedom to the extent defined by law. And of course, it's my natural right to speak out for my own rights. Through my lawyers and through my solicitors I can do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Since then, Erdogan has become increasingly authoritarian. His democracy increasingly illiberal.

I also remember right here the 1980s U.K. media landscape, when conservative Prime Minister Maggie Thatcher was regularly skewered by the "Spitting Image" program. She must have been itching to handbag them, but the program was never penalized or canceled as a result, and they skewered all members of the political spectrum.

Later though, in Russia, Vladimir Putin did remove their take on the program -- yes, there was one there for a while -- from state TV.

[11:59:50]

AMANPOUR: Now, just to note, President Trump will attend the memorial service for Charlie Kirk on Sunday in Arizona. And we can all hope that it will be a moment for an appeal to national unity.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.