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The Amanpour Hour

Interview With President Of Iceland Halla Tomasdottir; Interview With "The Day Iceland Stood Still" Director Pamela Hogan; Interview With Israeli Journalist Yuval Abraham; Interview With "No Other Land" Co-Director Basel Adra; Racing Into The Record Books At 92; Interview With Former NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg; Archive: 2014 Interview With Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro; Tragic Inspiration Behind Key Philip Pullman Character. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired October 25, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:39]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone, and welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where were headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: A revolutionary walkout for gender equality 50 years ago. Iceland's president on how her countrywomen took control of their futures and director Pamela Hogan on capturing that moment.

HALLA TOMASDOTTIR, ICELANDIC PRESIDENT: When I asked my mom and her sisters why they were on a strike, they told me very plainly that they wanted to show that they matter.

AMANPOUR: Then the filmmakers behind the Oscar-winning West Bank documentary, "No Other Land", on their fight to get it seen in the United States as violence against them spirals.

YUVAL ABRAHAM, ISRAELI JOURNALIST, "NO OTHER LAND": People need to see the reality on the ground. They need to see the truth so that it changes. And that's what we want.

AMANPOUR: Also ahead, blink and you'll miss her -- the Italian sprinter who's racing into the record books at 92. Her tips for staying forever young.

Plus, getting candid with the former NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, dealing with stubborn Russians and the moment he stopped Trump from abandoning the alliance.

And from my archive: on the precipice of an American war with Venezuela, I revisit my interview with President Nicolas Maduro.

And finally, the world-renowned children's author, Philip Pullman, finishes his follow up to "His Dark Materials". How he chose the name of one of his crucial characters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

We begin today's program with an amazing story of activism that was all caught on camera. It's a lesson from history about gender equality.

Today's America is in a ferocious fight with DEI. But as the former IMF chief Christine Lagarde once told me, if the moral argument doesn't sway you about equality, how about these dollars-and-cents, business and the wider community in general that have more women at the helm are much more successful, she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE LAGARDE, FORMER IMF CHIEF: It's a dollar issue because generally firms that have women on their board or on their executive teams are more profitable.

You look at the bottom line, it's very clear. And there have been many studies on that front.

But more to the point in finance, in banks that have more women or in supervisory authorities that have more women, it is more stable, it is safer, it is more secure. There are less risks taken. And, you know, we've had a lot of risks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And the World Bank says nations see significant growth in GDP the more equal they are. Today, America ranks 42nd on gender equality, according to the World Economic Forum, while Iceland is the global leader.

But 50 years ago, Iceland was seriously behind until the women there decided to take drastic action. On the 24th of October 1975, 90 percent of women downed tools in the workplace and at home to demonstrate their irreplaceable role in society.

It was a joyous revolt full of humor, determination and compromise. It culminated in a strike that's now being remembered in the new documentary "The Day Iceland Stood Still".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost all the women in Iceland are on strike today. It's national women's day there and the women are refusing to work and even in their own homes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If women don't work, everything collapses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are going to show them that we can stop this society. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The men thought it was ridiculous. Oh, you are so

silly. Goodbye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The beds were not made, dishes not washed. The telephone system went dead. Theaters did not open. Most of the schools were closed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well it didn't come to blows, but we got very harsh words mostly from men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: It's an amazing and uplifting story as I heard from director Pamela Hogan and Iceland's second female president, Halla Tomasdottir.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome to both of you to our program. This is an amazing film, Pamela Hogan. And Halla Tomasdottir, I want to ask you as president of Iceland, you were seven years old when the actual day off, so to speak, happened October 24th, 50 years ago. What do you remember from that day?

[11:04:51]

TOMASDOTTIR: I remember it vividly, because it was my mom's birthday, and this day they were not baking and cleaning, she and her sisters, as on every other day. And they were on a strike and they were having fun while doing it.

And when I asked my mom and her sisters why they were on a strike, they told me very plainly that they wanted to show that they matter and I think that was maybe the beginning of me thinking that one day I might want to matter too.

And I think throughout decades of doing different things I've learned that that's ultimately what most of us want to do, to matter, to be seen, valued and heard in a world that should allow all of us to contribute.

AMANPOUR: Let me just play one of the clips that you have sent us. And this is, as you said Madam President, you wanted to be something and somebody in your country. And this is about two of those women who tell us what they wanted to be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIGDIS FINNBOGADOTTIR, FORMER PRESIDENT OF ICELAND: I was asked, what are you going to do when you grow up? And I said, I want to be a captain of a ship.

They said very sweetly to me, no, no, dearest, you cannot because you are a girl.

GUDRUN ERLENDSDOTTIR, ICELAND SUPREME COURT: From the time I was 12, I said that I wanted to be a lawyer. Everybody said, oh, no, you will be married before you are 18.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: I mean, it is extraordinary. Now, of course, you know, Madam President, that the first lady who wanted to be a ship captain ended up becoming the first female president of Iceland. And the second one was the first woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court.

Pamela, some of the stories almost seem incredible.

What do you think about Iceland or do you think it's everywhere that this was what women could expect? And we're talking only 50 years ago when they were just cooking and cleaning.

PAMELA HOGAN, DIRECTOR, "THE DAY ICELAND STOOD STILL": Isn't it incredible that it's -- that it's only 50 years ago? Also, women's names, if they were married, the name couldn't be on the doorbell and their name couldn't be in the phone book.

And jobs were advertised for men or for women. And of course, the women's jobs were paid less and were lower levels.

So, I think that that's one of the reasons we felt it was so important to capture these women's memories now, because I think in generations to come, no one would believe that life was like that for a woman.

And I think also one of the secrets of the women's drive to really make the day off something big was they were -- the women's movement in the 1970s in Iceland was feeling a little bit behind Scandinavia and maybe the United States.

So, they really wanted to do something big to make a statement. And I'd say they succeeded.

AMANPOUR: Madam President, the whole idea of the day, the 24th of October, was going to be a general strike by women, you're going to basically stop working all the -- all the parts of industry that you had menial jobs and were paid less for the jobs you were doing than the men were.

But then it turned into a day off because certain, you know, members of the female community didn't like the idea of a strike.

Tell me about that. It's funny. It broke down traditional political lines.

TOMASDOTTIR: Yes, it's very interesting that some of the perhaps more radical women wanted to call it a strike. And some of the more, what you might say conservative women were more comfortable with calling it a day off.

And women somehow found a way before social media, before the Internet to organize a strike or a day off and find a bridge between those words so everybody could participate. And 90 percent of women participated and did no work that day. And I think it's quite an achievement at a time where we didn't have the tools that we have today to mobilize. But what I was more impressed with already at the age of seven, and still am today, is exactly what you mentioned, that they did it with such solidarity, even if they had to call it different names. They did it with such courage and such joy.

This was really a fun day. They were singing and chanting and making signs. And it was a fun day.

AMANPOUR: What do you think this meant for boys in Iceland? Because now, all we hear about is boys around the world feeling alienated by the progress women have made, even though women still are not paid parity by any means.

TOMASDOTTIR: We need to understand that closing the gender gap isn't a woman's issue. It's really about economic and social progress. It's really about building a more sustainable and a peaceful world.

[11:09:44]

TOMASDOTTIR: So, I think the next phase, and I hope the next phase for us in Iceland will be about bringing boys and men to the table even more actively.

And it's still a fact in the world we live today that over 90 percent of all positions, be it head of states or CEOs or chairmen of boards, they're still men.

So, even if women have made great progress, and in Iceland we certainly have, we have not closed the gender gap anywhere in the world. And we are very far from a gender balance in leadership the world over.

And I'm absolutely certain that the key to getting there, and this is something our first democratically female president, (INAUDIBLE) often said, it will be because women decide to show up in leadership and work in allyship with men to really bring about a more sustainable and peaceful world, honestly.

AMANPOUR: Yes. Well, it's an amazing film. I really encourage everybody to see it.

Halla Tomasdottir, president of Iceland, and Pamela Hogan, director of "The Day Iceland Stood Still". Thank you both very much indeed for being with us.

TOMASDOTTIR: Thank you, Christiane.

HOGAN: Thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Next up, the Israeli and Palestinian filmmakers behind the Oscar-winning doc "No Other Land" on the fight to get their film seen in the United States, and rising settler violence in the Occupied West Bank.

And later in the program, former NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg tells me how the alliance could have fallen apart on his watch.

[11:11:15]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

While the world holds its breath to see if the Gaza ceasefire holds and even turns into lasting peace, over in the Occupied West Bank, settler violence is on the rise.

So far this year, more than 3,000 Palestinians have been injured in attacks by settlers or Israeli forces, according to the U.N.

That includes Basel Adra, whose community of Masafer Yatta has come under repeated attack. Basel co-directed the acclaimed documentary "No Other Land" about his hometown, along with the Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham. It won the Oscar this year for best documentary.

But until this week, it was almost impossible to watch in the United States. They had no distribution deal. I spoke to them both from Masafer Yatta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome both to the program.

Can I just start by reflecting on where you actually are? You're sitting right in your village there, and it looks -- it looks like an amazing sight. But what has been going on over the last several days and weeks there?

BASEL ADRA, CO-DIRECTOR, "NO OTHER LAND": Well, yes, I'm in my village with Yuval. It's called Tuwani village, one of the 20 small communities here in the South Hebron area called Masafer Yatta town.

What has been going on for the last three weeks and months actually very crazy. Settlers are not stopping creating illegal outposts. Today actually, they just stole one of the caves belonging to one of their families not far from here, and they started a new illegal outpost.

Israeli occupation forces joined them and kicked away the families and the neighbors that gathered there, trying to protest against this illegal outpost.

At least nine illegal Israeli outposts have been built in Masafer Yatta just in the last two years.

On the other hand, the Israeli army continues to destroy Palestinians' homes, water wells, and other constructions.

AMANPOUR: Yuval, you're there with Basel, and you both are wearing exactly the same shirt. And I believe it refers to one of your colleagues who has been killed. Tell me about the T-shirts.

ABRAHAM: Yes. So, this our dear friend and our colleague, Aouda Halaline (ph), who is a resident of one of the villages right next to us. And he was really killed in cold blood. He was murdered by an Israeli settler who was invading his village. He was documented.

As he was shooting him from close range, Aouda was filming, actually, the last moments of his life.

And as almost always in these cases, the settler today is not only free in Yinon Levi, but he is actually always coming again to the village where there is now another, as Basel said, illegal outpost that is being built there.

AMANPOUR: Yuval, you are obviously an Israeli journalist for the online magazine "972".

What is it like for you? And do you ever try as an Israeli to ask them what they're doing to -- I'm sure you do -- to try to intervene? How do they treat you as a fellow Israeli?

ABRAHAM: Yes. So, you know, much of our work and of course, our film is based on the realization that Israelis and Palestinians, Basel and myself, are living under a system which privileges Jewish Israelis in every way.

And there is a group of Israelis and international activists who try to leverage that privilege to come to places like this, to Masafer Yatta and other areas now in the West Bank, especially in the olive harvest season, where the attacks are, you know, happening on a daily basis, these pogroms.

And, yes, to try to do protective presence, to try to document, to try to be first in line so that, you know, so -- to somehow have some pushback against what the settlers and the army are doing.

[11:19:48]

ABRAHAM: I feel like the International Community, by not taking action, is weakening people like us, people from the Israeli and Palestinian human rights community. And we really need this, because things are really severe on the ground right now.

AMANPOUR: When you say the International Community and the message, something good has happened in that you have now found how to distribute "No Other Land" in the United States.

Basel, tell me what is the situation now?

ADRA: So, unfortunately, you know, major distributors in the U.S. did not want to pick "No Other Land" and to show it in the U.S. I think they are politically trying to block us from reaching the American audience.

So now, finally, we decide to release the documentary after two years of releasing it, after six months of winning the Oscars. So, just we're releasing it by our own -- with other like activists

who's helping us with social media, using our accounts.

And we try to push it by ourselves, basically, and with the social media colleagues and friends who's in solidarity with the Palestinian cause, who's supporting "No Other Land."

AMANPOUR: Do you agree that it's a deliberate attempt so far by the distributors in the U.S. just not to get that message out?

ABRAHAM: Yes, I think -- I mean, I think it is. I mean, we've been in touch with several big streamers. You know, you can imagine the names.

And we were always told, wait, like, you know, if you get nominated for the Oscar, we will take the film. And we were nominated, nothing happened. If you win, we will take the film. We won and nothing happened.

And yes, we did hear that it's political considerations like they -- I don't know why they don't want to show a film which is critical of Israel's military occupation.

But as an Israeli, I want to tell them we need to be critical of this. It cannot go on. And people need to see the reality on the ground. They need to see the truth so that it changes. And that's what we want.

AMANPOUR: So, I want to ask you both. First, Yuval, what hope do you have for the Gaza ceasefire? And as bad as it is where you are, it is just flattened in Gaza. I mean, the reports of people coming back to nothing is quite dramatic.

ABRAHAM: Yes, you're right. It is flattened. And I think it's not flattened by coincidence. I mean, as someone who has spoken to many Israeli soldiers who have actually flattened homes in Gaza, it's clear that this is intentional.

It was done house after house, city after city. Rafah has gone. Khan Younis is largely gone. Entire areas are gone.

And that's why I think Netanyahu, the government, I mean, they view this as some sort of accomplishment from the same perspective that is going on here, that by making the life there miserable, people will leave. It'll be a form of ethnic cleansing.

And I think they won't quickly give up on that -- you know, on that horrific dream.

AMANPOUR: And finally, Basel, your final thought? And do you have any hope that the ceasefire will hold?

ADRA: I hope that the ceasefire will hold and will this massacre that we've been watching, like on our phones and TV channels for the last two years. And I want to -- my words want to send them to the people who are protesting in the street to the Sumud flotilla. All these actions like the boycott actions to continue, because we need them now more than ever to hold this ceasefire.

But also to end this apartheid and brutal occupation, because our ethnic cleansing here in Masafer Yatta and all over across the West Bank is not stopping. It's going on in daily basis and nobody is talking about it, not even -- the American government is talking about the ceasefire, which is like good that we have ceasefire in Gaza. But here in the West Bank, nobody talks about what's going on a daily basis.

So, we need like the people who are protesting in the street, politicians to do more, to have a political solution for the future.

AMANPOUR: Well, Basel Adra, Yuval Abraham, thank you so much indeed, both of you for being with us.

ABRAHAM: Thank you.

ADRA: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Coming up, fighting fit at the age of 92. We have a report on the Italian woman whose record-breaking speed could unlock the secrets of how our bodies work.

[11:23:44]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Now, for a little exercise break with a running phenom, a woman who's broken multiple records, won 12 world titles, and is still going at the age of 92.

Italian elite sprinter Emma Mazzenga refuses to let age slow her down, training twice a week all year round.

CNN's Antonia Mortensen traveled to Padua, Italy, to get the secrets of her longevity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EMMA MAZZENGA, 200 METER WORLD RECORD HOLDER, OVER 90S (through translator): I really feel the competition. Part from the fact that I like the competition, I just like the competition. And even now, maybe a little less than in the past I still feel tense before each race.

ANTONIA MORTENSEN, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: Emma Mazzenga is no ordinary 92-year-old. She's an Italian elite sprinter who has broken multiple world records.

What was your personal best, for the 200 meters?

MAZZENGA: The best time was last summer in June. I did 50 and 34.

MORTENSEN: Born in 1933, Emma made headlines when she broke the indoor 200-meter world record in her age group in 2024 with a time of 54.47.

[11:29:54]

MORTENSEN: She's a real testament that it's never too late to start again. Emma stopped training after college where she ran track. She became a high school teacher, got married, started a family, and then at the age of 53, after a 25-year hiatus, dusted off her running shoes.

MAZZENGA: I resumed training in 1986. I also had a coach, and I always trained three times a week, initially a couple of hours, now one hour a day.

This is my first European gold medal. Yes, this was the first world title.

MORTENSEN: And how was the feeling when you won, the first world title?

MAZZENGA: It is beautiful because then you go to the podium, they play the national anthem, and that is always a very emotional thing.

MORTENSEN: Tell me a little bit about your daily routine.

MAZZENGA: At 5:00 in the morning I'm awake. I have breakfast and generally have a ham sandwich or salami sandwich, and then do various things. I go outside, I go for a walk, I go shopping, I do some cleaning around the house.

And generally, I have a snack. I have a fruit, a couple of cookies. Then at 12:00 lunch of course, and I eat some pasta -- 30, 40 grams of pasta and meat or fish and vegetables.

MORTENSEN: The nanogenarian's uniqueness attracted the attention of a team of Italian and American scientists, and she's now part of an ongoing international study trying to understand how someone her age can not only run but so fast.

So, far, they found that Mazzenga's cardiorespiratory fitness is similar to that of someone in their 50s, and her muscles' mitochondria function is as healthy as a 20-year-old's.

What would be your advice for others who want to be or stay fit like you?

MAZZENGA: I would say that first of all check the diet and then do constant physical activity. The physical activity in particular which is quite challenging, is not only for the body but also the spirit.

MORTENSEN: Antonia Mortensen, CNN -- Padua.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Up next, we look back at the titanic struggle facing Europe and the United States over Russia's war in Ukraine with a man who was truly at the center of it all. Jens Stoltenberg tells me about the hard lessons he learned during his ten years as head of NATO.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, FORMER SECRETARY-GENERAL, NATO: If the U.S. president had left NATO summit and declared that he was no longer willing to defend NATO allies, then NATO would have ceased to exist.

[11:32:43]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back to the program.

European leaders met here in England this week to push for a just and lasting peace in Ukraine. And President Trump, for the first time in his second administration, has imposed tough sanctions on major Russian oil companies.

Well, according to my next guest, this all could have been avoided. But the road here was paved with missed opportunities.

Former NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg led the alliance from 2014 to 2024, grappling with Russia since it first annexed Crimea and with President Trump's threats to pull out of NATO in his first term.

Now, Stoltenberg has written all about it in "On My Watch", and he took me behind the scenes when we met in London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Jens Stoltenberg, welcome to the program.

STOLTENBERG: Thank you so much for having me.

AMANPOUR: In your book, you write, "More than ever during the war, I felt a sense of inadequacy. Ukraine was in the midst of a life-and- death battle for its existence as a sovereign nation, and we hadn't managed to give them the help they needed. Had we provided more support earlier on, many Ukrainian lives could have been saved."

STOLTENBERG: Yes, and I still believe that's a correct assessment.

And, of course, nobody knows, but I believe that if we had delivered substantial military support to Ukraine from 2014, then at least we would have been able to help Ukrainians to control much more territory today after a full-scale invasion in 2022. But maybe even could have prevented the full-scale invasion.

AMANPOUR: So, just around the beginning of the full-scale invasion, are you able to say now whether you -- did you encourage leaders to provide more of these long-range important weapons at the time, or did you not think that was your role?

(CROSSTALK)

STOLTENBERG: Yes, I did, but if -- I try in the book to also, as I say, be honest about my own mistakes, and I realize today, in hindsight, that I could have done even more, to be even stronger in trying to convince allies to provide more military support to Ukraine in the years running up to the full-scale invasion.

AMANPOUR: I want to ask you about some character studies you've done. Actually, I find it really interesting.

So, at one point, and I think you said this publicly, you decided in your -- when you met President Zelenskyy again, that he was one of the best leaders of our time. Just give me why you think that.

STOLTENBERG: When I met him first in 2019, I liked him, but I didn't regard him as a big political leader, a strong political leader.

[11:39:50]

STOLTENBERG: He turned out to be an extremely strong political leader, with personal courage and also the skills to inspire a whole nation and the whole world to support him.

And it's hard to imagine any political leader that could have done anything similar for his country as President Zelenskyy.

AMANPOUR: You call Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov a unique combination of an elegant diplomat and a bully. And you also write that he insulted you at one point in a meeting. "Why am I even sitting here, he said. You have no opinions of your own, Stoltenberg. You say only what your bosses permit you to say."

How shocking was that?

STOLTENBERG: It was not very shocking because that had been more or less his style for a long time, but this particular meeting was a bit worse than the others.

But on the other hand, I continue to believe that at some stage, we need to talk to Russians. It's possible to talk to the Russians, even if they are rude in the way they are in some of those conversations.

AMANPOUR: And not constructive. I mean, I don't understand how you keep talking to him. You say, you know, we should talk, as you say, even though his manner was rough and occasionally unpleasant.

This time, there was nothing -- absolutely nothing constructive. "No matter what topic we switched to, I could hardly complete a sentence before he butted-in."

Your book is full of very fun anecdotes about behind the scenes. One of the most important moments was the NATO summit in Brussels in 2018.

You write, "This might be the meeting at which NATO is ruined, I thought. And it's happening on my watch. The alliance had managed to operate successfully for 70 years, but not after 12th of July 2018," which was this summit.

So, this was because Trump said, unless you put up this amount of money, I'm walking out. Just tell us how chilled you felt. What was everybody feeling at that summit right now? A lot has been written about it, but it's interesting to hear you describe it.

STOLTENBERG: No. We were extremely concerned because we actually feared that President Trump was going to leave the whole meeting, and they have packed their luggage and are ready to leave. And he stated that if you don't promise to pay more now, immediately, I will leave. And you need NATO more than I do.

And then we had to reorganize the whole meeting. We had a kind of emergency meeting. We --

AMANPOUR: With him in the room still?

STOLTENBERG: With him in the room, and most of the other people left. So, it was only the heads of state and government. And we had a very open discussion.

And he pinpointed each and every ally and read out exactly how much they paid. And most of them paid, of course, far too little.

But at the end -- and, of course, if the U.S. president had left a NATO summit and declared that he was no longer willing to defend NATO allies, then NATO would have ceased to exist.

On paper, we will still have been an alliance, but in reality, it wouldn't longer deliver deterrence because deterrence is in the mind of the adversary, and if the biggest ally, say, will not defend, then the whole deterrence disappears (ph).

So, after that meeting, he actually went out and said that he was -- I think it was 110 percent in favor of NATO. So, it ended well, and I remember you were there.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

STOLTENBERG: Yes, yes.

AMANPOUR: Yes. Well, I was -- I did an interview with you afterwards, and you say it ended well, but there was a confusion, and I tried to get through the confusion.

Trump was saying one thing, President Macron, Chancellor Merkel were saying another thing about this extra spend. And I tried to get you to give it to me straight.

You write now in your book, "I couldn't, of course, confirm the facts. There was no new agreement, no new pledges beyond the 2014 resolution. But I couldn't simply come out and say that because then I'd be contradicting Trump and risk him withdrawing support. And so, we went on, for several confusing rounds.

Amanpour asked clear and precise questions, and received vague and unclear answers from you.

As you know, that's been a big complaint of mine through your 10 years of NATO, but now you're going to be frank. What were you thinking when I was trying to get the truth out of you? You were obfuscating.

STOLTENBERG: No, but I thought that actually you saw the contradiction in the messages.

AMANPOUR: Yes, but you still didn't clarify.

STOLTENBERG: No, but the reason is that when you're secretary-general of NATO, there is one main responsibility, and that is to keep this alliance together.

And then I cannot say that Trump is wrong, that there's no new agreement, and I cannot say that the others are right either. So, I need to find a way to call the paper over those disagreements.

And I felt it was a bit strange or stupid, but that was my task, to keep this alliance together and we succeeded.

AMANPOUR: Jens Stoltenberg, thank you very much indeed.

STOLTENBERG: Thanks so much for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And the book "On My Watch" is out now.

Coming up as the might of the U.S. military bears down on Venezuela, we look back at my 2014 conversation with President Nicolas Maduro and his fears even then, of U.S. aggression.

[11:44:43]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back.

Warships, spy planes, fighter jets, bombers, drones and the U.S. Marines -- all U.S. assets the Trump administration has now deployed to waters around Venezuela.

Relations between Trump and President Nicolas Maduro are at an all- time low, as the White House expands its operations against drug trafficking groups.

[11:49:48]

AMANPOUR: Experts warn Trump may also have another ambition, piling the pressure on Venezuela's leader and trying to force him out.

From my archive, my conversation with Maduro back in 2014, when I spoke to him in person in Caracas. I pushed him on his nation's failing democracy, and I asked him how he saw U.S. ambitions in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Do you really believe they want to reconquer Latin America? NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Of course.

Of course I do. They want, first of all, the economic control. They have the political control through political classes and elites that govern some of our countries

And they want to have the military control because, regrettably, the U.S. elite, they have a project to try to establish the hegemony and the control. And in the world of today, it is impossible.

AMANPOUR: Do you worry that this democratic legitimacy that you claim will be forfeited because so much power has been accumulated in the presidency, in the executive.

The judiciary doesn't have much say. The legislative doesn't have much opposition representation, nothing meaningful. The independent press is censored.

All of this, people say, is actually moving towards a dictatorship, not towards a more evolved democracy. Are you concerned about forfeiting your democratic legitimacy.

MADURO: What concerns -- my concern is to strengthen democracy. These accusations have been made for 15 years and they crashed against the reality of Venezuela.

Tell me the country in the world, with 19 elections in 15 years.

AMANPOUR: But it's not just elections, sir. You know that you won your election. But it's not just elections. I'm talking about what happens in governance, of the accumulation of power after election.

MADURO: Well, it is important to have elections, democracy.

AMANPOUR: Of course. But it's also important what to do after those elections.

MADURO: We have a democracy strengthened at all levels. You know why democracy is so strong in Venezuela? Because none of those -- what the leaders of these powers -- we are not -- we don't we do not belong to international companies or a weapon company or an oil company.

I'm not a businessman who came here to enrich a group, economic group or another group -- another economic group. I am an independent president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Well, I spoke to the main opposition leader who actually is considered to have won the latest elections, Maria Corina Machado. And she, who won the Nobel Peace Prize, supports President Trumps attempt at regime change. She said she would welcome it.

When we come back. An epic literary adventure comes to an end after three decades. Years ago, author Philip Pullman gave me a preview of the crucial characters in his final blockbuster fantasy saga.

[11:52:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: And finally: this week, an epic literary journey has ended after 30 years. The beloved children's author Philip Pullman has completed the story of his young heroine, Lyra Belacqua, in "The Rose Field", released this week, the final novel in his "Book of Dust" series.

And it's the end of a literary journey that began in 1995 with "His Dark Materials", a book that took young readers across universes to heaven and back.

In 2017, I spoke to Pullman as he embarked on his new Lyra trilogy, and he told me then how one key character in these final novels took special shape because it was inspired by his support for the victims of London's tragic Grenfell fire that same year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIP PULLMAN, AUTHOR, "BOOK OF DUST" SERIES: I thought that I must join in, I must -- I must do what I can do to help.

So they auctioned the rights to naming a character in the book I was writing now. And I'm very pleased that to find that it was -- the auction was won by someone who liked me to name a character Nur Huda El-Wahabi, who is one of the girls who very tragically died in that fire.

I'm very happy to do that. And Nur Huda will have a part in my -- in the second part of the "Book of Dust", which I'm writing now.

AMANPOUR: It really is a remarkable gift for all her family. She will live on forever in your -- in the covers of your book.

PULLMAN: I hope her relatives and friends like the character that I'm writing about, of course, it won't be the real one whom I never knew, but I hope they feel that I do justice to her name.

AMANPOUR: What made you do the new book? Why now?

PULLMAN: Well, it's been quite a long time in the writing. I began writing this one, 10 or so years ago. And it's taken me quite a long time to get this far with it.

When I finished "His Dark Materials" with the book called "The Amber Spyglass", I had a sense that that wasn't the last I was going to know about Lyra, the heroine.

I felt that she was, going to have some more adventures, but I didn't know what they were or where they would take her.

[11:59:42]

PULLMAN: And when I started writing about her in this book -- well, she's only six months old in this story, so she's not able to do very much or do anything at all of her own volition.

But she's certainly the center of all the activity -- the activity that's going on. And I was -- I was pleased to see her at that age because this book sets in place, the beginning of a story, which is going to come into full fruition 20 years later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.