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The Amanpour Hour

Interview with Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Rush Doshi; Interview with "Israel: What Went Wrong" Author Omer Bartov; Russian Ship Sinks in Mysterious Circumstances; Interview with Host of "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" Kara Swisher; Risking Everything for a Taste of Freedom in Iran; Eurovision 2026. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 16, 2026 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:55]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a very warm welcome to THE AMANPOUR HOUR.

Here's where we're headed this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The world is a special world with the two of us united and together.

NEWTON: Trump in China, high stakes on the president's history-making trip to Beijing. How did it impact a relationship the fate of the world hangs on?

I asked Rush Doshi, who served as a top China adviser to President Biden.

Then, as American public opinion swings against Israel, renowned professor and genocide scholar Omer Bartov tells Christiane where Israel went wrong.

Also on the program.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: This really is the craziest of stories about a Russian shadow fleet ship that sank off the coast here in the strangest of circumstances.

NEWTON: An exclusive investigation into the mystery of a sunken Russian ship and where it was carrying nuclear technology.

Then, the world domination of tech titans continues as they tagged along on Trump's trip to China. But is their goal immortality?

Christiane asks veteran tech journalist Kara Swisher.

KARA SWISHER, CNN HOST, "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER": They have all the money in the world, but the one thing that happens is biology is undefeated. NEWTON: And amid the war, the situation becomes ever more dire for

Iranians who wanted a different future. From Christiane's archives, the young people who risked everything for a taste of freedom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Welcome to the program, everyone.

I'm Paula Newton sitting in for Christiane in New York.

A new era of U.S.-China relations. That's what U.S. President Trump and China's leader, Xi Jinping, hailed at a much-awaited summit in Beijing, such a success that Trump invited Xi to a follow up in Washington this September.

Now, the goal was to talk trade, Taiwan and tech. The latter underscored by a group of high-powered American executives accompanying Trump. And that includes Elon Musk and Apple's Tim Cook.

But there was a large pall hanging over proceedings -- the war with Iran. As that war continues into its third month now, the closeness between Tehran and Beijing, it's undeniable.

Iran's foreign minister having his own trip to China just days before the American president's while China buys most of Iran's oil exports.

So it appears Xi is in a unique position to put his finger on the scale in peace talks. Did it pay off at all?

Let's get some analysis with someone who's done this dance before. Rush Doshi was on the National Security Council under President Biden and has helped plan previous summits between the U.S. and China.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Good to see you as we continue to try and parse this trip.

And if we're thinking about that historical arc of U.S.-China relations, how big of a deal is this summit? Could it be an inflection point or more of a continuum as you see it?

RUSH DOSHI, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, this is the first in- person meeting in Beijing between two U.S. presidents in nine years, so that alone is a big deal. And any kind of summit between the U.S. and Chinese president requires our attention.

But that being said, I think this summit has been heavier on symbolism than it has been on substance, and that's in part because the issues that divide the two countries are very hard to resolve quickly.

We saw President Trump was quite taken with the welcome that he received in front of the Great Hall of the People. And we also saw that President Xi went out of his way to show respect to President Trump and vice versa. But on the hard issues of the day from Taiwan to trade to technology

and artificial intelligence, and especially Iran, it's not clear that these two countries are seeing eye to eye.

So, is this an inflection point? Perhaps not. Is it continuity in a quieter moment in the relationship? Probably. And what comes next over this year is going to be critical. There's going to be at least three more meetings between these two leaders over the course of 2026.

NEWTON: And yet, the stakes are so high, not just for these two countries, but obviously for the world.

[11:04:50]

NEWTON: Now, as we said, Trump last visited China in 2017. What has changed in the relationship since then?

DOSHI: Well, you know, the biggest change is probably that China feels far more confident today than it did in 2017. This is a China that just last year felt that it decisively won a trade war with the United States.

Let's not forget that the U.S. increased tariffs on China to 145 percent last year. China responded by restricting the flow of rare earth minerals and magnets upon which, frankly, American manufacturing depends. And that would have been, you know, a devastating blow to the U.S. economy.

And President Trump essentially did fold. He pulled down the tariff rates and decided to pursue a much more stable, even conciliatory relationship at times with China to make up for that moment in the trade war.

Since then, Beijing has felt that it has the wind in its sails, that the so-called "East is rising and the West is declining", to quote Chinese Communist Party texts.

That's the single biggest change in the relationship. China now feels it has the leverage to fully withstand U.S. pressure and return it with pressure of its own.

Today, the question is going to be, you know, exactly how long will this fragile truce between the two sides continue? There are some signs that both leaders want it to continue for longer. And I think Beijing is hoping to bank in this stability, not just for the rest of the Trump administration, but really to set this as a new baseline for beyond the Trump administration.

What that means for Americans is it's much harder for Washington to take steps that might be in defense of American economic or technology interests if Beijing has perceived -- or is perceived to have the upper hand.

NEWTON: And that leverage that you speak of in terms of China having, what can they use that leverage to achieve in this summit and beyond in the next few months? DOSHI: You know, I think what President Xi's objective is to basically maintain a stable U.S.-China relationship, and that particularly applies to the economic, technology, and trade sort of questions.

You know, President Xi does not want to see the U.S. increase tariffs on China. He'd like to keep selling goods to the United States, even if those goods sometimes put American workers and businesses at risk. The U.S., he'd like to absorb them, essentially.

On the technology side, he'd like to see American technology most likely continue to flow to China in ways that will support China's development, but also its ability to climb the value chain in key industries. If you put all that together, what he's looking for is time.

And President Trump wants the same thing. And the question of the moment is, if both sides want to buy time, then who will spend it better?

NEWTON: President Xi, perhaps arguably the newsworthy component of the first day, was when he warned President Trump that any mishandling of Taiwan could, and I'm quoting here, "lead to an extremely dangerous situation."

So much talk has been about whether or not the U.S. would change, officially, its policy towards Taiwan. What leverage does China have now?

I want to note that Marco Rubio has said that, look, U.S. policy on Taiwan is unchanged. That might be the public posture. Rush, do you believe that behind the scenes something else may be going on here in Taiwan?

DOSHI: We should be clear, I think Beijing has a few goals on Taiwan. They want President Trump to change U.S.-Taiwan policy, which hasn't changed in over 40 years. They also want the U.S. to basically agree to negotiate the quantity, the quality, the composition of arms sales to Taiwan with China in advance, which, again, would be a big change from policy over the last 40 years. It would also make it a lot harder for the U.S. to support Taiwan's ability to defend itself and deter Chinese aggression.

If you look at the U.S. readouts of last interactions between President Trump and President Xi, including phone calls, you often see President Trump talk about what's on his mind -- economics, technology, and this time, Iran.

But President Xi, for his part, will often emphasize Taiwan in these contexts. He'll talk a lot more about the importance of Taiwan.

So, this is the top issue. It's the most sensitive issue. It's a war- and-peace issue. And clearly, it's on the agenda. We just don't know exactly what was said.

NEWTON: That does, though, lead us to the task at hand, which is trying to find some kind of resolution in Iran. I mean, how does China regard this conflict? And do you think it will

actually shape the outcome of what we're going to see in the next few weeks or even months?

DOSHI: You know, I think that China looks at this conflict as basically an own goal for the United States, an unforced error.

That the U.S. essentially has once again put itself into a Middle East quagmire. It is expending large quantities of the munitions that it needs to be able to deter China in the Taiwan Strait. And it's spending lots and lots of money to do so.

And the net result might end up being that the U.S. essentially loses the ability to stop Iran from throttling trade in the Strait of Hormuz that we end up essentially worse off than we were.

And the Chinese know, and Venezuela and Iran show this, that U.S. military power projection around the world is unmatched. The U.S. has incredible capability. But a military victory, or rather an operational victory, can also be accompanied by a strategic defeat.

Now, what does President Trump want from China on Iran? Well, China is the biggest purchaser of Iranian oil. He'd like, I think, ideally, China to purchase less of it. Maybe none of it.

He'd also like Iran to not receive Chinese dual-use items that could support its military or weapons.

[11:09:48]

DOSHI: But what President Trump, I think, wants is China's help in solving this issue. And from China's perspective, look, it's a long- term problem to have the Strait of Hormuz closed. But in the near term, they can weather it. They're not exactly excited to help the United States out of this quagmire.

NEWTON: Rush Doshi, I kind of feel like I was in the room speaking to you. Thanks so much. Really appreciate your insights.

DOSHI: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Ahead on the show, as tech giants unite on Trump's China trip, how billionaires are fighting against time. Journalist Kara Swisher looks at the push to live forever.

But just after the break, what went wrong in Israel, according to a leading genocide scholar. Christiane's conversation with Omer Bartov on how his birth country got to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMER BARTOV, AUTHOR, "ISRAEL: WHAT WENT WRONG?" AND PROFESSOR OF GENOCIDE STUDIES, BROWN UNIVERSITY: This mix of indifference and denial is a consequence of decades of occupation. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:10:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: Welcome back to the program.

60 percent -- that's how many Americans now hold a negative view of Israel. That's according to findings from Pew Research. It's a reflection of the country's wider problem on the world stage. International opinion souring after its joint U.S. Operation in Iran and its destruction of communities in the West Bank, Lebanon, and, of course, Gaza.

Now, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is blaming social media for the shift. But our next guest thinks quite differently.

Omer Bartov is a leading scholar of genocide studies. In his new book, "Israel: What Went Wrong", he traces the nations present crisis back to its founding. Drawing on his own upbringing in a Zionist Israeli household.

And he joined Christiane to discuss how we got here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Professor Omer Bartov, welcome back to our program.

BARTOV: Thanks very much for having me, Christiane. Nice to be again with you.

AMANPOUR: So, let me first ask you about the title of your book, "Israel: What Went Wrong?" I mean, it's a pretty provocative title.

BARTOV: Yes.

What I'm trying to trace in the book is really the question of how did Zionism, which was a movement that began in the late 19th century, intended to liberate, emancipate Jews who were living in East Central Europe, who were being persecuted, subjected to more and more violence. And to create something, a better living environment for Jews, how that movement was transformed into a state ideology that increasingly supported militarism, expansionism became increasingly racist, and since October 2023, has also supported genocide.

That's the sort of tragic transformation that my book tries to trace.

AMANPOUR: So, at first, back in November of 2023, shortly after October 7th, you wrote for "The New York Times" saying and warning that, while genocide is not taking place in Gaza, things will get worse.

And Professor Bartov, you followed up with a second op-ed saying that we are in fact there yet. Who were you trying to address there?

BARTOV: I was hoping that someone in the Biden administration at the time would listen. Because as I wrote there, there were both clear signs that there had been war crimes, crimes against humanity. About 10,000 civilians had been killed already then.

But the administration didn't listen. And because the administration did not put its foot down and allowed Israel to continue, by the Spring of 2024, it became clear that the statements that had been made by Israeli politicians and generals right after October 7th, which had a genocidal content, were not only made at the heat of the moment, but were actually part of what we saw later on was a pattern of operations by the IDF in Gaza intended to ethnically cleanse the entire strip.

AMANPOUR: Now, you hear Prime Minister Netanyahu, who's never been held accountable, he's now telling American television that actually, you know, we just have a propaganda problem, that we're victims, and -- you know, of this lack of support now or this dropping support in the United States for Israel.

What do you make of Netanyahu's justification for what's happening in the country of your greatest support?

BARTOV: Well, what is extraordinary is, first of all, that Netanyahu, who was the head of government during the fiasco of October 7th, we know now that the government and the military had all the information about an attack that was going to come from Hamas and he did nothing about it, that he will be able to complete his term of four years as prime minister, never even thinking of resigning in shame.

He's trying now -- and he's speaking only to the American media, he hardly ever speaks in Hebrew to the Israeli media -- he's trying now to fool people again into saying, well, some mistakes are made, you know, in war things happen.

[11:19:49]

BARTOV: Whereas in fact, we know that there was a concerted plan about which he spoke on various occasions to empty the Gaza Strip of its population.

AMANPOUR: You served in Gaza in the 1970s, and you write, "Even then, it was a bad place. 350,000 people, hopeless and sad."

Well, today, there are just over 2 million people more than hopeless and sad, not just because of, you know, the Israeli occupation, but also because of the horrendous leadership of Hamas that has led them down this road to total perdition.

What was it like for you as a young soldier, and did you have any idea of what was going to come?

BARTOV: We had no idea how long that occupation would last and how deeply it would corrupt Israeli society. So much of what you see today, the indifference of the Israeli population, the vast majority -- I'm not talking only about the far right or the supporters of the government -- but many supporters of the opposition, are indifferent to what happened to Palestinians in Gaza.

This mix of indifference and denial is the consequence of decades of occupation, which led to dehumanization of Palestinians, and in turn led to dehumanization of Israelis vis-a-vis Palestinians. Thinking of them, as the minister of defense at the time, Yoav Gallant, said immediately after October 7th, they are human animals and we will treat them as such.

That is a sense that was shared by large parts of the Israeli population and remains so to this day as a result of this decades- long, increasingly oppressive and brutal occupation.

AMANPOUR: Do you think one of the things, as you write, where did it go wrong, was the -- they never ever talked about the Holocaust and the Nakba?

BARTOV: Yes. I mean, a major point -- the crucial moment is of 1948. 1948 is the year in which the state was established. 1948 is the year in which the vast majority of population of the Palestinians were kicked out, the Nakba. 1948 is also the year in which the Genocide Convention was endorsed with strong support from Israel at the time.

So, facing up to the past, facing up to the wrongs of the past, is crucial in order to move forward, I agree.

But the Holocaust became in Israel also something very different from simply a moment in history that one has to commemorate, a research which I have done for most of my career.

It has become a political tool from the 1980s on, which has given license to Israelis to say that any resistance to them -- and resistance comes from those that you occupy and oppress -- brings with it the danger of another extinction, of another Holocaust.

And therefore, those resistors have to be wiped out with any kind of violence, regardless of any international law or agreements.

AMANPOUR: It really is fascinating. It's one of the most important stories in the world.

Professor Omer Bartov, thank you so much indeed for joining us. "Israel: What Went Wrong?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Still to come, a mystery involving a sinking ship, nuclear reactors, and a journey from Russia to Spain.

Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has an exclusive investigation. We'll have that after the break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: The incident is shrouded in silence but concerns the most serious of issues -- weapons proliferation between two nuclear powers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:23:32]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: And welcome back.

Now to a CNN exclusive.

An investigation has found that a Russian cargo ship, likely carrying two submarine nuclear reactors destined for North Korea, sank in unexplained circumstances off the coast of Spain back in 2024.

Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh Traveled to the mediterranean to get to the bottom of the mystery, and here's his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: A mystery in the Mediterranean, the possible torpedoing of a Russian ship to stop the Kremlin handing submarine nuclear reactors to North Korea, begins in a quiet Spanish port.

This really is the craziest of stories about a Russian shadow fleet ship that sank off the coast here in the strangest of circumstances, whose Russian captain confessed to investigators here that it was carrying two nuclear reactors, possibly for a submarine.

The incident is shrouded in silence but concerns the most serious of issues. Weapons proliferation between two nuclear powers and force being used to stop it.

The Ursa Major ship loaded up near St. Petersburg in early December 2024; on paper, bound for Vladivostok with a cargo of two huge cranes and over 100 empty containers.

It made another stop, loading two large manhole covers. It set sail. A shadow fleet ship used by Russia in Syria, the Portuguese navy followed it from above. You can see the blue covers here until just before it ran into trouble in Spanish waters.

[11:29:48]

WALSH: It was way further out to sea when the Ursa Major on the 22nd of December 2024 suddenly slowed, and Spanish rescuers noticed this, and they radioed to ask if anything was wrong. The ship insisted it was fine and could deal with the situation.

But about 24 hours later it made a sharp deviation and issued an urgent call for help. The boat was listing, this video shows, filmed from a nearby tanker but probably not going to sink too fast. The captain of the ship would later tell investigators he'd seen a 20-

by-20-inch hole in the hull, the damaged metal facing inwards. He said it had been followed by three explosions on the starboard side of the boat, killing two of his crew.

So the Russian military arrive in force and they tell everyone to stay two nautical miles away from their ship, the Ursa Major.

But the Spanish know they need to conduct rescue operations, so they send this ship to pick up 14 Russian survivors who were brought back here. And that includes the Russian captain, who it seems, starts to help investigators piece together some of what's happened.

But it's hours later that day that the mood changes over the Ursa Major ship. And the Russian military fire flares over it. And then a series of explosions follow, which Spanish seismic sensors picked up. And they send the ship to the seabed floor.

Moscow demanded their crew back but the Russian captain told Spanish investigators something remarkable, that the ship was carrying components for two nuclear reactors, likely for a submarine, he said, adding he could not be sure if the reactors had fuel in them. There's no evidence of contamination.

He also told investigators he thought he would be diverted not to Vladivostok but to North Korea's port of Rason.

Russia was in North Korea's debt at that time after they sent 10,000 troops to help fight Ukraine two months earlier.

And in December 2025, North Korea would claim to have built this, their first nuclear-powered submarine.

Everything may have been on the bottom of the sea but the Russians weren't done yet. And according to a source familiar with the investigation, about a week after the incident, a Russian research vessel called the Yantar, linked in the past to all sorts of allegations against Moscow, sat over the wreckage for about five days.

And four more explosions followed, possibly the Russians destroying what was left of the wreckage.

In the months after, the U.S. may have shown interest in the site, twice sending a rare WC-135R Constant Phoenix, usually secretly sniffing out traces of nuclear activity in Russia's Arctic or over Iran over the path of the Ursa Major, weaving low at 5,000 feet.

One had flown a similar route 13 months earlier, perhaps suggesting it's routine. The aircraft's U.S. base declined to provide any details.

Spanish lawmakers have urgently sought answers but got few.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When someone doesn't clearly and fully provide the information that you request, you at least suspect that they are hiding something, of course. WALSH: So why did the ship sink?

The Spanish investigation said the first impact was likely from a projectile called a super-cavitating torpedo that fires air in front of itself to reach very high speed. Others suggested something simpler.

MIKE PLUNKETT, SENIOR NAVAL PLATFORMS ANALYST, JANES: Sounds like a limpet mine. It sounds like a shaped charge explosive that was placed against the hull by somebody or something.

WALSH: The Russian owners immediately called the sinking "a targeted terrorist attack."

They -- the Russian, Spanish and British militaries did not reply to a request for comment, and the Pentagon declined too. There are few western militaries operating there capable of noticing, tracking and stopping a cargo like this. All sides it seems happy for this secret to stay on the sea floor.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN -- Cartagena, Spain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Coming up, as tech titans chase immortality, the veteran tech interrogator, Kara Swisher, tells Christiane how to get a longer lifespan without it costing you an arm and a leg.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SWISHER: It's a very simple answer, and it doesn't cost anything. And you don't have to pay like for a red-light mask or whatever nonsense they're trying to push on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:34:12]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: And welcome back to the program.

As we mentioned earlier, President Trump had some pretty interesting tagalongs on his high stakes China trip. Tech titans like Elon Musk, Apple's Tim Cook and other executives joining the president eager to expand their empires right across the globe.

But world domination apparently isn't enough for some of them. Their new goal -- immortality, literal immortality. With each passing second, they're trying to shape the race to fight our own biology.

Kara Swisher, the acclaimed tech and business journalist, is trying to separate the science from the wishful thinking in her new CNN Series.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you comfy?

SWISHER: I feel like I'm in a -- like an air fryer, but sure.

How often do you go in this thing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daily.

SWISHER: Tech bros are desperate to live longer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of money in this.

[11:39:47]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kara, this longevity trend, hasn't the earth suffered enough? Shouldn't we just die?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: The series is called "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" and she spoke with Christiane about the series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Kara, welcome to the program.

SWISHER: Hi, Christiane, how're you doing?

AMANPOUR: OK. So, I'm surprised, having seen some of the episodes, and we'll see more, that it says "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER", because you don't come across as wanting to live forever. In fact, you're poking holes in all these bros that want to live forever.

SWISHER: Yes, you got the joke.

AMANPOUR: Yes, I did. Oh, it was a joke. Ok.

(CROSSTALK)

SWISHER: I want to live longer better, is what it is, and sort of collapse the health span, lifespan problem. A lot of people live longer than they're healthy. And actually, in the United States, the gulf is enormous, much more so than anywhere in the world.

And so, I want to see what's -- I was sort of struck by all the charlatanism online right now about health and everything else, by the way and the real science that's really developing that could really help us live healthier, longer lives. And so, I wanted to show both things.

And of course, it's being spurred by tech billionaires who are so narcissistic, they just want to preserve their godlike bodies as long as they can.

AMANPOUR: Well, you know, you've interviewed so many of them. And as you say, you interviewed Brian Johnson, who's a tech entrepreneur. And I'm going to put a clip of your conversation with him and then we'll get into it.

SWISHER: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN JOHNSON, TECH ENTREPRENEUR: The primary thing that we want to do is to say, like, let's just not die.

SWISHER: So, why do you phrase it like that? Because it is phrased and you market it and it's quite marketed, I want to live forever.

JOHNSON: Oh, I don't. So, it's -- I specifically do not say I want to live forever.

SWISHER: Ok. But you said you don't want to die.

JOHNSON: Don't die is very different.

SWISHER: Ok. Explain that for me.

JOHNSON: Don't die is not about me. It's not about a select group. It's about a species. This is like literally a homo sapien-like endeavor.

SWISHER: So, you're in it for humanity, not for self-aggrandizement?

JOHNSON: Like what else is there to play for?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Did you buy that? That it wasn't for him to --

SWISHER: No.

AMANPOUR: Ok. What do you think is motivating them?

SWISHER: Well, I think he has an empty hole in his soul, I guess, like a lot of them is that they feel like they have all the money in the world. But the one thing that happens is biology is undefeated.

And so, they're thinking if they could hack everything else, which they have, for the most part, they can hack this. And so, they really can't. But the struggle to do it is really both poignant and really pathetic.

And so, one of the things that struck me is that because they're testing on just him, it doesn't help humanity in any way. It helps Brian Johnson.

And so, you know, through the -- and he's like, has this thing. Well, if he puts it out, people could copy him. But people can't copy him because he's spending $2 million a year.

And so, my whole thing was, why are you doing this if you really want to help humanity? And he calls himself a rejuvenation athlete. It's a sport I don't understand. AMANPOUR: Well, I'm going to play another clip because this is, you know, essentially you defining the good life. You point out that tech billionaires are desperate to hang on. But they almost never talk about the quality of life.

So, this is what you're discussing, you know, like what engages the brain when you're speaking to neuroscientist Wendy Suzuki.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WENDY SUZUKI, PHD, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR NEUROSCIENCE: One of my specialties is a brain structure called the hippocampus. It's in the temporal lobe. You have one on the right and one on the left.

It's really important for memory. So, you need it to remember what you put down, you know, in Texas Hold 'Em.

It's also important for imagination. If you're trying to get something going in your game strategy, you need that imagination to envision what that strategy might be.

SWISHER: Games boost your brain. But the real win, you usually can't play alone. And it turns out interacting with actual humans -- messy, opinionated, rule-bending humans -- is what fights loneliness and helps you live longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And for me, that was the bingo moment. It is all about community --

SWISHER: It is.

AMANPOUR: -- and in real life. And I wonder what you also learned, because you touched on this issue with Gen Z's, and whether they have a different view of the boundary between, you know, life and death and longevity.

SWISHER: So, one of the things that's really astonishing, people ask me, what are the big secrets, Kara? What are the big secrets? And you can go into mRNA technology and GLP-1s, absolutely, and A.I. and cancer, et cetera.

But the number -- two things that are critically important to longevity, don't be poor. I hate to say that, but it's true. Be rich, that helps.

The most important thing is social and human connections. There's all this science behind that. And it's really astonishing how much the online world, and we've become extremely online, is going to hurt us, and how helpful it is to be with people. It's actually health- improving.

[11:44:46] SWISHER: And so, it's a very simple answer, and it doesn't cost in anything. And you don't have to pay like for a red-light mask or whatever nonsense they're trying to push on you.

And that, to me, was the most important insight here, is if you spend time with more people over your life, you will live longer and more healthfully.

AMANPOUR: I agree with you.

SWISHER: So, have dinner with me.

AMANPOUR: Yes, yes. I totally agree with you.

I can't let you go without asking, you know, some of your news knowledge here.

Musk versus Altman, they're in court right now. How is this going to turn out? What do you think?

SWISHER: Speaking of bad health, I think it's bad for both of them. I don't think it's good for either company.

In this case, right now, Elon's been on the stand, and he's been sort of soiling himself rather nicely over there. Because anytime he gets pushback, because he's in this world, speaking of worlds that are insular, he's not used to being pushed on.

What happened is he was an early funder of this, a very significant -- the most significant funder, and then he left because he couldn't take control of it.

And now, he has -- you know, it's the biggest regret of his life, because he didn't think they could do what Sam Altman did with it.

So, he's trying to pretend he's the hero and everything else. And it's not good for either company. And it's very bad for the brand of A.I., I'll tell you that, which is already on a downward slope, a very fast- moving downward slope.

AMANPOUR: Well, you keep the tech bros honest. Keep on doing it.

Kara Swisher, thank you very much, and for this program.

SWISHER: Thanks, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: And "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" airs tonight on CNN.

Ok. Still to come for us. From Christiane's archives, the long, long fight for freedom in Iran and a simple joy many of us take for granted -- being young and partying with friends.

We bring you a rare inside look into Tehran's suburbs from the year 2000. We'll have that after the break. [11:46:39]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: And welcome back to the program.

As the war with Iran drags on, the pressure on its people grows worse and worse. Many of them and their businesses are struggling amid an Internet blackout that's lasted more than two months.

Now, the ability of some to pay for access is widening the gap in an already bitterly-divided country. The Internet crackdown has become emblematic of the many freedoms the Iranian regime prevents its people from accessing.

So from Christiane's archive this week, some of her reporting from inside Iran, where she saw the desperation for long lost rights up close, speaking with young people willing to risk it all for a party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Every weekend, the young and the affluent in the suburbs of north Tehran get together and party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bartender.

AMANPOUR: These are the sons and daughters of the Islamic Revolution -- students, government workers and entrepreneurs.

Here, the conversation is about how to pay off the police if the party gets busted.

Under the table and out. Yes.

No one has ever shown this side of Iranian life on television before. Single men and women are never allowed to mix like this, especially when they're dressed like this.

But these young people want their story told, and that's why they took a chance and let our camera in. They all know what the dangers are.

Just a year ago, this is what happened to their friend, Amir. He got 70 lashes when one of these parties was busted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I lie on a bed and he do it like --

AMANPOUR: Did you cry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

AMANPOUR: You didn't scream?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, because I was very angry, you know, it was some kind of --

AMANPOUR: Resistance. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Resistance that I don't want to scream or

something.

AMANPOUR: Do the lashings work? I mean, does it make you stop going to parties, stop doing things?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

AMANPOUR: That's because at this moment in Iran, their need for freedom is greater than their fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now, Iranians like those in that report, face a double bind today, fearing a resumption of U.S. or Israeli strikes, while their own leadership cracks down on them as well.

When we come back, something very different. The Eurovision song contest celebrates its 70th show with dropouts and media blackouts. We'll explain why, next.

[11:54:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: And finally, Austria is ramping up for the grand finale of the 70th Eurovision song contest today. One of the most watched cultural events on earth, it's helped launch the global careers of artists like Celine Dion and, of course, Abba.

Now, it's usually an eccentric celebration of some of Europe's best and quirkiest music.

(MUSIC)

NEWTON: That's Greece's entry "Ferto", just one of the hot favorites tonight. Now it should all be so much fun, but a shadow has fallen over Vienna, which plays host this year as objections to Israel's participation have seen mainstays like Spain, the Netherlands, Ireland, Iceland and Slovenia drop out of the contest altogether.

[11:59:45]

NEWTON: Controversy is also growing after recent reports about Israel's strong campaign for victory, some believing it violates the supposed nonpolitical nature of the contest.

Now it will all come to a head at the grand finale tonight, where a winner will be crowned. But Eurovision itself may find it is one of the biggest losers.

That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on our other major platforms.

I'm Paula Newton in New York. Thanks for watching. Christiane will see you again here next week.