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CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Is Anthrax Still a Threat?; Would You Be Willing to Consider Surgery to Lose Weight?; Who Wrote 'America the Beautiful?'

Aired July 04, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, fear on the Fourth of July. Have we forgotten something?

ANNOUNCER: July 4. Terror watch. Is anthrax still a concern? Tonight, a closer look at the anthrax vaccine.

Diary of a diet. Tonight a man who has lost more than 90 pounds and counting. Would you be willing to go under the knife to lose weight? A radical new twist on tightening your belt.

The July Fourth Hollywood horse race. Will Smith, Tom Hanks, Harrison Ford and Robin Williams. Tonight, how far studios are willing to go?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you seeing things yet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock and load, baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've got you, Cleopatra, and I'm a whole lot of woman!

Shezam!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN broadcast center in New York, Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening. In tonight's terror watch, while most of today's security concerns focused on direct terrorist attacks, the specter of bioterrorism has not gone away.

The Bush administration has announced new policies on anthrax vaccination, including storing doses in secret warehouses around the country. If an anthrax attack occurs, doses would go to people in the area, and to emergency workers.

And in the next two weeks, the Pentagon will start vaccinating soldiers headed for duty in regions considered high risk for bio- chemical warfare.

But how much of this is a significant defense? And how significant is the anthrax threat?

Dr. Marc Siegel is contributing to an ongoing Senate inquiry into America's bioterror defenses. Dr. Siegel, thank you for being with us today.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, ASSOC. PROF. MEDICINE, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: Why the policy change? Does the government know something that we don't know?

SIEGEL: No. I think that the government wants to just make sure that some of this vaccine is available in case a little bit of anthrax is to reappear. Now, anthrax is not contagious, and the worst case scenario we would have to look at would be a very isolated appearance, so the public should not be worried that this signals a big event.

CHUNG: But if there is a big event, some kind of larger attack, bio-chemical attack, couldn't it spread all over the country?

SIEGEL: Absolutely not. We don't have any knowledge that anthrax would spread rapidly any way. It is not easy to aerosolize. It is not easy to spread. It is not contagious.

CHUNG: Now, if we are stockpiling it for citizens, would that help?

SIEGEL: Well, the vaccine itself is very -- it is not a great vaccine. This vaccine has been around...

CHUNG: Then why do we have it?

SIEGEL: Well, we have it because it's the best we have right now. We actually should be spending more of our money looking into better vaccines. We have much more state of the art vaccines in other situations, for other uses. This vaccine I would consider antiquated. It may help somewhat if someone were to get exposed, and it's a good idea to have it for the military that are going into high-risk situations.

There's a lot of anthrax in Iraq right now, but as far as here, it's very, very unlikely that this vaccine will ever be needed, so I have a concern that too much of it may be stockpiled.

CHUNG: Is anyone developing or researching a better vaccine?

SIEGEL: Absolutely. And there are better vaccines that are being developed in Europe that are not approved for use in the United States yet.

CHUNG: All right. Tell me, most people would believe that a vaccine works before an attack, not after an attack. Would it help after an attack? SIEGEL: That's a very good point. I think it would help mostly after an attack, because if you were exposed to anthrax, you could then take Cipro or another antibiotic and the vaccine, and that would decrease your risk of ever getting anthrax.

In that setting, I think it has usefulness. But for the public to consider taking it in any other venue is not right and not helpful.

CHUNG: Such as before an attack?

SIEGEL: Right, right. This vaccine might not help at all. It also has potential side effects...

CHUNG: Such as?

SIEGEL: Such as flu-like symptoms, nausea, fever, achiness. In fact, a fair percentage of the military refuse to take this vaccine.

CHUNG: And I do know that. Are they in danger? I mean, do you feel that that is not a wise decision?

SIEGEL: I think that that is not a wise decision if you are going into an area where there's a lot of anthrax. There's a lot of native anthrax in the Middle East, so if you're in the military, and you're going to a country in the Middle East, or to Iraq, I think it's a very good idea to take the anthrax vaccine.

CHUNG: I understand that you don't think it's an excellent vaccine, but does the United States have enough for every American?

SIEGEL: No. But, the United States is planning on amassing 3 million doses over the next years. That would mean a million doses set aside for public use. I can't imagine a situation where that much of the vaccine would be needed.

CHUNG: Why not? We hear these stories that Saddam Hussein is stockpiling 2,600 gallons of anthrax. That's frightening.

SIEGEL: Well, Connie, keep in mind, you know, anthrax is very difficult to spread, so we need to be cautious, but there's just no way that it's going to be spreading through the public in any significant way.

CHUNG: Would this vaccine be applicable to children?

SIEGEL: Yes. But with children, you'd even worry more about the side effects.

CHUNG: Why?

SIEGEL: Well, because the side effects might be more pronounced. Again, the nausea, the fever, the flu-like symptoms, you could easily get to a much more ill condition if you were a child taking this vaccine. The same is true with antibiotics, by the way.

CHUNG: Cipro? SIEGEL: Right. Cipro is very, very dangerous to use in children. It can be used in an emergency situation, but shouldn't be used routinely in children.

CHUNG: So I know we shouldn't take it one step further, but if anthrax does spread in a particular area, what do you do for those children? Do you not give them antibiotics or do you not give them the vaccine?

SIEGEL: I think if I was pretty sure that someone was exposed, I would consider giving antibiotics and maybe the vaccine. But consider this. Last fall, when 18 people got anthrax, 30,000 people got Cipro, and many, many, many, many thousands of people hoarding it or stockpiling it.

I think it's much more dangerous to take an antibiotic in a setting where you're not exposed than to not have it there.

CHUNG: So, bottom line, should we be concerned? Is there an increased threat, either over this holiday, this weekend, or this summer, or even any time in the future? Can you address each stage?

SIEGEL: Yes. I think over this holiday, I really believe it's very unlikely that anything is going to happen, and people should go out and enjoy their holiday. In the future, I can't say that there won't be a bioterror attack.

I believe that if it comes down the pike, it will be with plenty of warning, plenty of ability to respond and to put off limits any area that's been affected. It also is notable that we haven't had any attacks since 9/11. I think that's very good news.

CHUNG: And actually, we don't even know the source of the 9/11 attacks, I mean the post-9/11 attacks of anthrax.

SIEGEL: Right. Right.

CHUNG: We don't know what the source is. Now you said there would be enough time for warning. What does that mean? Clear the area?

SIEGEL: Well, like happened before. If you knew that a building, you know, an anthrax letter was found in a building, you would take everybody out of the building, you would decontaminate the building.

I think that the various agencies involved are now working towards getting along better and being more prepared to work together.

CHUNG: All right. Dr. Marc Siegel, thank you so much. Happy Fourth to you and your family.

SIEGEL: Thank you. Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: When we come back, the diary of a diet. This is one you just can't afford to miss. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: It might seem cruel to be talking about this as you knock off another burger or settle into an ice cream sundae, but tighten up the belts and strap yourselves in for this one, literally. Holiday cookouts, Fourth of July feasts and keeping your weight down. A contradiction at best, but we're about to introduce you to a man who's beating his weight problem with a new kind of surgery, and all the while, writing about his first-person experiences.

David Kiley is a reporter for "USA Today" and he's here with me now to tell us about the adjustable gastric band. But before we get to that, tell me why did you want to lose weight? Because I know you probably went through all sorts of diets. Why now?

DAVID KILEY, "USA TODAY": I did go through all of them that I can think of. Biggest motivation was my wife was pregnant with our first child. And I'm going to turn 39 this month. And I thought to myself -- I weighed over 430 pounds when she got pregnant. And, I thought, I'm going to be 50 when this child is 10, 11, 12 years old, and I want to be there. I want to teach him how to play sports. I want to go biking. I want to go hiking with him. And the rate I was going, I had type-II diabetes. I had hideous...

CHUNG: Caused by the weight?

KILEY: Yes. Yes. I had hideous arthritis in my knees.

CHUNG: Caused by the weight again?

KILEY: Caused by the weight. Having to take stairs one at a time. And I just thought, I'm going to be dead before he gets to be 10. So that was my -- that was the thing that kicked me in gear.

CHUNG: All right. So, how did you decide to go with surgery, because that really does strike, I think, everyone as being very drastic?

KILEY: I had tried everything else. I had tried NutriSystem, Optifast, a couple of other liquid programs. I was on Fen-Phen and Redux, plus Prozac. I was seeing a doctor who thought a cocktail of Redux, Fen-Phen and Prozac was the way to go. And I would lose 30, 35 pounds, and then my body would scream. I need more. You're not giving me enough.

CHUNG: Scream for food?

KILEY: Scream for food. Literally, I could feel it in every cell of my body.

CHUNG: So, we've all heard about Carnie Wilson's surgery. You didn't choose that one.

KILEY: I did not because I looked at it. And, frankly, it's a very invasive, very drastic piece of surgery.

CHUNG: Tell us about the one you had.

KILEY: OK. The adjustable gastric band is -- it's only been approved in this country for a year. My surgery was a few months after the FDA approval. It was in clinical trials for a couple of years. This surgery, a version of it, is the gold standard in Europe and Australia.

CHUNG: What do you mean, gold standard?

KILEY: It's what they perform the most of in terms of weight loss surgery. Doctors in Europe and Australia think the bypass, which is what Carnie Wilson has been making popular, is an outdated procedure, and not a very smart piece of surgery. And, frankly, I agreed after I spent six or seven, eight months studying everything I could get my hands on about these different surgeries.

CHUNG: Just like a good investigative reporter, right?

KILEY: Yes.

CHUNG: So once you decided what you were going to do, did you get your doctor, your physician, to give his blessing?

KILEY: He had a nurse in his office, my doctor, who had had bypass. And I told him, you know, I don't want that. And I said this is the surgery I want. And he said, frankly, I'll endorse any of these surgeries that you want because you need to lose weight. And then I went to search out a doctor that I trusted and wanted to work with.

CHUNG: How was the procedure?

KILEY: It was very easy. I traveled, actually, from Michigan where I live to Georgia because I found a surgeon there who I felt was about the most experienced in the country. And that's what I wanted because it was a fairly new surgery in this country. And, I was in -- it was a very short procedure. It's done laparoscopically, not an open procedure, so they just do it through a couple of little holes. I was in the hospital overnight. Stayed in a hotel.

CHUNG: Any pain? Little bit?

KILEY: There was a little discomfort actually because they inflate your stomach while they operate on you with a gas. And the gas stays in you for a couple of days, a week or so, and it gives you shoulder cramps.

CHUNG: Right, right.

KILEY: You know, but nothing lasting, no.

CHUNG: All right. Tell me the results. So far -- when did you have the surgery again?

KILEY: September 26th of last fall.

CHUNG: And how much weight have you lost?

KILEY: A little over 90 pounds so far. And I have another -- my goal weight -- I'm a little -- I started out at 431. I'm a little less than 340 now. My goal is 220 by July 11 of 2003.

CHUNG: What's July 11?

KILEY: I turn 40. And 220 is the weight that I weighed when I graduated high school. Now, the insurance tables might still say I'm 30, 35, 40 pounds overweight. Frankly, if I get to 220, I'm having a party, all my friends.

CHUNG: Right. Sure.

KILEY: In fact, I'll weigh in on your show if you want.

CHUNG: Perfect. Now, tell me this. Excuse me. Your eating habits were -- why don't you describe your eating habits before and what you eat now?

KILEY: I figured out that on a given day, busy lifestyle, the whole bit, I could easily consume 3,500 4,000, 4,500, 5,000 calories because it adds up quickly. I ate a lot of junk food. I ate a lot of food on the fly. I ate a lot of food in the car. And I would eat because I just had this appetite that -- and I felt it was my body just saying, feed me more. Feed me more. Now, because of the way the band works, I eat about maybe 800 calories a day, 900...

CHUNG: I don't know what that means.

KILEY: Well, I'll tell you exactly what I eat. I tell you -- I usually don't have -- I usually have a protein vitamin sort of shake around 12:00.

CHUNG: That's your first thing that you...

KILEY: Yes. That's at first 12:00 noon. That's the first time I really feel like eating. I usually have a little coffee in the morning. In the afternoon, I might have a little snack, crackers and some cheese or a little like imported salami, which I kind of like. I mean, I'm a foodie. I love food.

And then at dinner, it's usually fish, which is particularly good. It works very well in terms of going through. Like, no steak, no chicken, no pasta because it really -- it gets stuck in the area where the band is, where my stomach is restricted.

CHUNG: Got you. Well, let me just ask you one final question because we're running out of time. Ordinary people out there, I don't think -- they can't afford this. It's too expensive.

KILEY: Well, insurance companies are coming around, but they more readily cover the gastric bypass that Carnie Wilson had.

CHUNG: How much did you pay? KILEY: My insurance paid 80 percent of mine. So, out of pocket for me, at that rate, was about $4,000. Now, there are people, if you don't have insurance coverage, to get in it this country right now, can cost anywhere from $12,000 to $25,000. It's all over the place. A lot of people go to Mexico where, frankly, the surgeons have been doing it longer. In Monterrey, Mexico and Tijuana, the hospitals are excellent. It's about nine or $10,000 right down there.

CHUNG: All right. David Kiley, thank you so much. We'll be tracking you in "USA Today," right?

KILEY: Yes. Thanks so much.

CHUNG: What's it going to take to get you into the theaters this weekend? Well, maybe Will Smith has the answer to that question coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MEN IN BLACK II")

WILL SMITH, ACTOR: Why do you think you're so comfortable here?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(INTERRUPTED FOR BREAKING NEWS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: She had it all, or so it seemed. A charmed life for a 17-year-old in Paris. Lizzie Simon, though, had a secret problem. She was seeing things, very scary things. Lizzie was diagnosed with what is called bipolar disorder, also known as manic depression. It's a disease that affects 2 million Americans.

Lizzie has now written a book about her experiences with some of them. It's called "Detour, My Bipolar Road Trip in 4-D." Joining me now, Lizzie Simon, Natalie Bible (ph) and Anna (ph). We'll tell you about Natalie and Anna in a minute.

Lizzie, you wrote -- I'll get it exactly correct -- "going crazy at 17 was the most traumatic experience I've ever had." What happened?

LIZZIE SIMON, AUTHOR, "DETOUR": Well, what happened was that I was living in Paris for my senior year of high school, and I had been diagnosed as depressive because I had just gotten into college. I had every reason on earth to be really happy. And when I went home for Christmas, I fell into a nearly catatonic depression. I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't talk. I had all kinds of suicidal thoughts, when in my environment and my life, there was just nothing that could lead to it.

So I was sent to a psychiatrist who didn't do a proper background check on my family history, and he put me on a drug called Paxil, which, when given to bipolar patients, makes them manic and then psychotic. And unfortunately, I was back in Paris, and I didn't have anyone really watching over me.

CHUNG: You were alone?

SIMON: I was alone.

CHUNG: Oh my goodness.

SIMON: So it was traumatic for me, and I think that anyone who goes through a severe depression or mania is, in fact, traumatized by it.

CHUNG: How did you survive in Paris, being alone and going through this?

SIMON: Well, I got lucky. I didn't do anything in my mania or my psychosis that led to death or permanent injury. And eventually, was sent home. And put on...

CHUNG: Then you were diagnosed.

SIMON: Diagnosed immediately. Couldn't have been clearer that I was bipolar, and I was put on lithium. And within 48 hours, I went from a psychotic mess to, you know, I was shattered completely emotionally, but I was OK. I was making sense. I could put clothes on, I could function.

CHUNG: When you say you were shattered, you know, can you give me an example? What was it? What was this person that you were?

SIMON: Sure. Sure. Well, the experience of being bipolar, if you go through these episodes, it's really like having someone take the rug right out from under you. Everything changes. You can't rely on your brain. You're seeing things that you don't know if you're seeing, you're hearing things that you don't know if you're hearing. People are starting to act like you're not acting socially appropriate, and you don't even really know.

So, afterward, when you come down from it all and you remember all the horrible things you have done, the embarrassing things you've done, the hurtful things you've done, it's devastating. You have no idea. Am going to be like this for the rest of my life? Am I going to have to be in the mental hospital? Am I one of those crazy people?

CHUNG: Yeah, well, what's the answer to that?

SIMON: The answer is, no. You know, fortunately, now what we're seeing is that there's a whole generation of us who were treated when we were young and who have committed to their own health and are able to integrate into society in the ways that they wanted to when they were growing up.

CHUNG: So, will you have to take lithium for the rest of your life?

SIMON: Yes, I will have to take lithium for the rest of my life. I take 900 milligrams a day. At first, there were really tough side effects, but they went away eventually, and now it doesn't really encumber me.

CHUNG: OK. You know, is there any reason why you might not take the lithium? In other words, and cause yourself to go into this state? Is your mind clear enough that you know you have to take it?

SIMON: Well, it's a really good question. It's a very complicated question. There's a lot of noncompliance to treatment. Of course, it's true with any illness. Even cancer patients oftentimes don't finish their cancer treatments. But of course, with mental illness, it really has disastrous outcomes.

The payoff for people who don't comply to their treatment is for that instance or that day, they don't have to face the fact that they actually have a mental illness. Now, there are a lot of excuses that people give for not taking their medicine. They say that the side effects are really severe, and in a lot of cases, it's really true.

CHUNG: For you?

SIMON: ... if you're not given the right medicine or if you're not given the right doses, it can...

CHUNG: But you're saying for you, it's not a problem.

SIMON: No, it's not a problem. I mean, I'm lucky, but I'm also really committed to it. It took a while for it to get regulated in my body, and for my body to get used to it.

CHUNG: So you don't know how much you should take?

SIMON: Well, I take the same dosage; it's just that my body had to adjust to it. It's 900 milligrams of lithium. It's a lot of a new (UNINTELLIGIBLE) enter into your body. So, at first, I gained a lot of weight, I got a lot of acne. My hands would shake really badly right now. You know, so that -- it took a while for me to adjust to that. But eventually I did, and I think when you talk to people, I know that Anna has been on the same medication for quite some time, and she's adjusted to her medicine. And Natalie is pretty lucky, too.

CHUNG: So, yeah, let's get to that. At the age of 23, you decided to do something.

SIMON: Right.

CHUNG: It was a watershed in your life?

SIMON: It was a big deal. I had been a pretty successful theater producer. When I got right out of college, I started working in this theater called the Flea in Tribeca, and we were just beginning to get, you know, national attention. It was pretty incredible. And at that point...

CHUNG: Fast forward.

SIMON: Fast forward, basically I dropped it all, and I went on the road and I interviewed young bipolar people all over the country who had been treated and were living, you know, what they seemed to think was successful lives.

CHUNG: And you met Anna.

SIMON: And I met Anna. Anna was the woman that I interviewed in L.A., and she's a great example of someone that I found on the road to do this book "Detour" that I wrote.

CHUNG: Anna, you were not diagnosed as bipolar for quite a while, right?

(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN BREAKING NEWS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: If you paid any attention to today's festivities around the country, there's a strong chance you've heard the strains of a familiar song. "America the Beautiful."

(MUSIC)

CHUNG: While the song may be familiar, its story is not. That's why Lynn Sherr wrote "America the Beautiful, the Stirring True Story Behind Our Nation's Favorite Song." Lynn is here today, along with Jane Grant, a descendant of Katharine Lee Bates, the poet who wrote the song's lyrics in 1894.

Lynn, tell me, did someone commission this song?

LYNN SHERR, AUTHOR: No, and that's what's so extraordinary. Katharine Lee Bates was 33 years old, a professor at Welsley College outside of Boston. Took her first trip out West. This was a young woman from Cape Cod. Never been out West. Loved everything she saw about the American West, and when she got to Colorado Springs, she was teaching at Colorado College. Had a wonderful summer school session. At the end of the session, the visiting professors were taken on a trip to the top of the mountain that towers over the town, Pike's Peak. She took one look at the view, came down and wrote the poem that became "America the Beautiful."

CHUNG: That's a lovely.

SHERR: Just a great, great, great story.

CHUNG: The melody?

SHERR: Well, the melody was written 11 years earlier by a man named Samuel Augustus Ward, who was a church organist in Newark, New Jersey.

CHUNG: Well, how did these two, not meaning the people, but the music and the words, get married together?

SHERR: The quick answer is that the American public put them together. The tiny bit longer answer is that Sam Ward went to Coney Island one day in the summer, loved what he saw, on the way home wrote this gorgeous melody. It was a church hymn. It was ultimately published in the hymnal. When Katharine Lee Bates' poem was first published in 1895, people saw it and wanted to sing it. One of the melodies they turned to was this hymn that was in the hymnal. And over years, it was that melody that became the one most sung to "America the Beautiful," and Katharine and Sam never met, never even communicated.

CHUNG: Is that right?

SHERR: Yeah.

CHUNG: And were either of them paid for this wonderful song?

SHERR: Katharine got $5 when it was published in 1895 from "The Congregationalist," a little church publication. And then gave up the copyright. Sam Ward also made no money from this. Sam died young. So he didn't know much about what happened to his beautiful melody. Katherine, I believe, didn't think she owned it anymore that she owned the purple mountains or the shining seas. She believed this belonged to the people.

CHUNG: Let's go to her great niece, Jane Grant. Mrs. Grant, tell me, what do you remember about your great aunt?

JANE GRANT, GREAT NIECE OF KATHARINE LEE BATES: Well, I remember quite a bit about her, mostly in the years that I think she retired in '25 and she died in '29. And those are the years when I really knew her. We lived in the same town, and I saw her once in a while.

CHUNG: What did you -- didn't your mother tell you something when you would walk by your great aunt's room?

GRANT: Yes. Don't stop. Don't bother aunt Katharine. She's a very busy woman.

CHUNG: Tell me one more thing. Do you have a favorite rendition of the song?

GRANT: Oh, the one that Samuel Ward wrote.

CHUNG: Oh, well, of course.

GRANT: The tune. Yes.

CHUNG: Well, thank you so much.

GRANT: We've had a lot of other tunes sent to us, but none of them was that good.

CHUNG: Yes. Absolutely.

SHERR: Connie, we should point out that there were for the first 20 years that this song was in existence, there were at least 75 different melodies. That's what Mrs. Grant is referring to. There were so many tunes. And isn't it nice that she also prefers this one.

CHUNG: And how about your favorite rendition? SHERR: Well, my favorite rendition is the one that Elvis Presley sings, actually. I used to say it was Ray Charles, and I do love the Ray Charles. But on this day, I think I'm an Elvis Presley fan. Of course, they're all the same word and music, but the Elvis version is just patriotic. It is so from the heart. This is a guy you remember who served in the Army. I mean, he's a great patriot, Elvis was.

CHUNG: Quickly, after 9/11, I think this song means more to us than ever before. Do you think the song is saying something to us?

SHERR: Oh, I do. I think the reason we sing it is because this is the song that makes us feel good. This is the song that puts our country back together again after all the horror we have been through.

But I think there's a verse that isn't usually sung. We should also think about it. It goes, "America, America, god mend thyne every flaw, confirm thy soul in self-control, thy liberty and law." What Katherine Lee Bates was saying back in 1893, was this is a fabulous land, I love it. But it's a work in progress. It's not perfect.

CHUNG: So we can criticize? Is that what she's saying?

SHERR: We not only can criticize, we should criticize. It is our job to make this country better all the time. There's not only nothing wrong with, but it's part of our responsibility to say, that's not right. Let's keep doing it. That's patriotism, also.

CHUNG: Thank you, Lynn Sherr. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: And that's our program for tonight. Hope you had a great Fourth of July. Tomorrow -- are you ready for some football? One group of women is. And they're playing pro ball. Thank you for joining us and for all of us at CNN, good night.

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