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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
LAPD Investigates Beating Caught on Tape; Baseball Legend Caught in Debate Between His Children
Aired July 08, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, 10 years later, do we have another Rodney King incident?
ANNOUNCER: Caught on tape: A shocking amateur video prompts another LAPD investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was handcuffed, and he was beaten.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, we'll hear from the man who was beaten on the streets of L.A.
Hall of Famer on ice?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY JO FERRELL, TED WILLIAMS' DAUGHTER: He said, well, you know, we can sell dad's DNA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The legacy of baseball great Ted Williams caught in a frosty debate between his kids. His son wants Ted frozen for eternity.
Life after anthrax. It's been 10 long months since there was terror in the mail. Tonight, Connie goes first person with two who share the story of their battle with anthrax.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any wish other than to get better. I tell you, I would like to get better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Michael Jackson throws down his glove, blasting his music company.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: What they did was really terrible. And not just to me, but some of their other artists too. He has got to go. He has got to be terminated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: What on earth was he thinking?
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight, caught on videotape, a Los Angeles police officer appears to be beating a handcuffed teenager. We'll have exclusive interviews with that teen and his father in just a moment. But first, we begin with how the incident unfolded. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is on the story in Los Angeles -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, for Inglewood Police, this is certainly a public relations nightmare. First, you have a videotape of a police officer who actually goes up to a teenager, he appears to be in handcuffs, he grabs the teenager, slams him down on top of a police car, and then appears to slug at him after.
Now, an amateur photographer shot the tape from a nearby hotel on Saturday. And the couple, the father and the son, happened to be at a gas station. They say that they were gassing up that night. And that's all they were doing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please you guys, do not resist them!
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): It's a very disturbing scene; 16-year- old Donovan Chavis, in handcuffs, grabbed by the collar and the belt, then slammed onto the hood of an Inglewood police car. Seconds later, the same officer, identified as Jeremy Morse, a three-year veteran of the force, swings at the teenager's head.
MITCHELL CROOKS, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: It's disgusting, you know. I mean, we all love our police and our firemen, but this is just -- this has got to stop.
GUTIERREZ: All of it was shot by amateur photographer Mitch Crooks. Crooks shot the tape from his hotel room on Saturday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What occurred within the video is extremely disturbing to the Inglewood Police Department as well as the administrators of the city of Inglewood.
GUTIERREZ: Police aren't saying much about what led up to the incident, only that sheriff's deputies had stopped the car driven by Koby Chavis, Donovan's father. The plates had expired, and Chavis was driving with a suspended license. Police say Donovan lunged at an officer. Family members don't buy it. They say Donovan and his father were just trying to buy gas.
TALIBAH SHAKIR, COUSIN OF DONOVAN CHAVIS: Donovan has always been a very subdued type of child. He is quiet. He doesn't bother anyone. And I don't believe Donovan fought those police. I really don't.
GUTIERREZ: Family members say Donovan has an auditory disability and a speech impediment, and that sometimes he's slow to react.
SHAKIR: You know, I would say I'm outraged, but they do this so often that I'm just really pissed because this time this is my cousin and, this time, they've messed with the wrong family.
GUTIERREZ: During the news conference at the Inglewood Police Department, community activists took the mic and voiced similar concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is why we had a riot because of police misconduct, police abuse and mistreatment of young people nationwide. So I'm saying if you want peace, you've got to work for peace. But we will not accept the mistreatment of anybody in being brutalized.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUTIERREZ (on camera): Now, Inglewood Police say that they've launched a full investigation with their internal affairs department into this entire incident. As for officer Jeremy Morse, who you saw in the videotape, he has been relieved of duty and he has been placed on administrative leave. Connie, back to you.
CHUNG: Thelma, after the Rodney King incident, are authorities concerned about what happened -- what might happen now?
GUTIERREZ: That's a great question, Connie. In fact, during the news conference today, which I can tell you was standing room only, people did raise that question. The police did not want to come within two inches of touching that subject. But again, Connie, there are a number of differences in the Rodney King incident, 20 officers involved who stood by idly as they watched him beaten with batons. In this case, they say the injuries, of course, not as great, but at the same time, the similarity is that it has raised the ire of this community.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you, Thelma Gutierrez.
The police have not made the officers involved available for comment. But we're joined now from Pasadena by the 16-year-old in that videotape, Donovan Chavis; his father, Koby Chavis, and family attorney Joe Hopkins. Thank you so much for being with us, gentlemen.
Koby Chavis, can you tell me what happened? Apparently, you were at a gas station and the police showed up? You were in the middle of getting gas?
KOBY CHAVIS, DONOVAN CHAVIS' FATHER: OK, we were going eastbound on (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Boulevard. OK, I pulled into the gas station to get some gas. When my son -- I asked my son, Donovan, go inside, pay for the gas for me. He came outside. Police came behind me and asked me do I have a driver's license. I told them no, it was suspended. They ask the me if it was my car. I said, yes, it is my car. Until my son stepped out from the car...
CHUNG: They asked your son to step out of the car?
CHAVIS: Step back.
CHUNG: Step back from the car?
JOE HOPKINS, FAMILY ATTORNEY: The son had some potato chips. He had gone -- excuse me -- to pay for the gas and bought some potato chips. They told him to put down the potato chips and step back from the car.
CHUNG: All right. That's Mr. -- is that Joe Hopkins speaking?
HOPKINS: Yes, that's me.
CHUNG: All right. Joe is the lawyer. All right, go ahead, Mr. Chavis. Then what happened?
CHAVIS: OK. He applied -- he stepped back. And the officers -- Lopez (ph) told him come here for a second. He searched my son and I see my son down on the police car. And then about 10 seconds later, Inglewood police came, and rushed toward my son...
CHUNG: Arrested your son? Do you know why they arrested your son?
CHAVIS: Like rushed towards him.
HOPKINS: What he's indicating is that after the sheriff did what they did, that -- he said rushed.
CHUNG: Oh, rushed. I'm sorry.
HOPKINS: They basically -- they essentially started running up towards the young man, who was by now seated in the sheriff's police car. The young man stood up. The sheriff grabbed him by the throat and held him while the Inglewood Police Department, four officers, took turns beating him in the face, across the shoulder of the sheriff, and that's essentially how this started.
CHUNG: I see. Mr. Hopkins...
HOPKINS: But there was no resistance.
CHUNG: I was just about to ask that. I'll go back to Mr. Chavis for a moment. Did you notice if your son was resisting arrest?
CHAVIS: No, he wasn't.
HOPKINS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CHAVIS: As I said, he did so -- when they told him to do it, he did it.
CHUNG: OK. Donovan, can you describe what was happening? You were paying for the gas, right? And then what happened?
Well, I'd prefer that he be asked if there's something different than what his father has just indicated. I mean, that's the story.
CHUNG: All right.
HOPKINS: The only thing that's missing is that once the police officers got through beating him, one of the officers picked him up by the seat of his pants, slammed him to the pavement. At some point, while he's down on the ground, they take this 18-inch chain, which was around his neck, and drug him. And but for the breaking of this chain, they might have killed the young man. That's essentially what happened.
CHUNG: Donovan...
HOPKINS: And this is all precedent to what we see on the video.
CHUNG: I see. Donovan, were you scared?
DONOVAN CHAVIS, TEENAGER SEEN IN VIDEOTAPED BEATING: Yes, I was.
CHUNG: What did you think was happening to you?
D. CHAVIS: What did you say?
CHUNG: Go ahead.
HOPKINS: What did you think was happening?
CHUNG: Do you know why you were arrested?
D. CHAVIS: Why I was arrested?
CHUNG: Yes.
D. CHAVIS: I don't know.
Did you do anything that would cause the police to arrest you?
D. CHAVIS: No, I didn't.
CHUNG: Did you resist being arrested?
D. CHAVIS: No.
CHUNG: Did you try to talk to the police officers?
D. CHAVIS: No, I didn't.
CHUNG: Why not?
HOPKINS: Well, you're assuming that he had time. He was rushed by these officers, Ms. Chung.
CHUNG: Well, that's what I was asking him. I was wondering if indeed they even said anything to him and if he replied. Donovan, did the police officers say anything to you?
D. CHAVIS: Yes.
CHUNG: What did they tell you to do?
D. CHAVIS: He said, put the chip in the car, and step back from the car.
CHUNG: Did you do that?
D. CHAVIS: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: And at that time, did they handcuff you?
D. CHAVIS: No.
HOPKINS: No. They -- at that time, they began to beat him. He complied with the only two orders he got. Put down the chips, step back from the car. That's what he did. At that point, the Inglewood officers arrive running. He stands up, and the sheriff grabs him by the throat and essentially holds him while they beat him.
CHUNG: OK. Let's go back to his father, Mr. Chavis. How were you treated by police?
K. CHAVIS: OK. The department (ph), they grabbed me by my neck, slammed me down on the ground, and kneed my back, and placed me inside a car.
CHUNG: All right. Were you injured at all?
K. CHAVIS: My back.
CHUNG: Was your son injured?
HOPKINS: You're not ask..
CHUNG: Was your son injured?
K. CHAVIS: Yes, he was.
HOPKINS: Of course, you're not asking him about the emotional injuries he suffered as a result of watching his son being beat. You're talking about physical injury, I presume?
CHUNG: Physical injuries, yes, to Donovan. Can you tell me what physical injuries he suffered, Mr. Chavis?
K. CHAVIS: Yes. His eyes, his throat, his nose, back of the (ph) ear, his wrists. Also, at nighttime, he's scared to go to sleep by himself at night. He wake up, like, screaming. He's scared of police now. He is scared to go outside by himself. He's frightened, traumatized.
CHUNG: Mr. Chavis, do you think that this incident was racially motivated?
K. CHAVIS: Yes, I do.
CHUNG: Why do you believe that?
K. CHAVIS: Because, at the time they saw me, I was parked already and getting my gas. They saw me, made eye contact with me, came, looked around. They came back, asked me for my license.
HOPKINS: What he is not telling you is that one of the officers said to him, "You're going to jail, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)." We've already beat your son's (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and now we're going to send you to jail. I'm going home, and if I see you on the street, I'm going to put you in jail." So that just corroborates what we feel like is the obvious intentional intent in the beginning. There was no reason to stop -- there was no reason to approach them, other than their being in that location and being black.
CHUNG: Mr. Hopkins, just a couple more questions for you. Have charges been filed against your clients?
HOPKINS: Yes, they both have court dates. They've both been charged. One has been charged with resisting arrest, and battery on a police officer. That's Donovan. And the father's been charged, I believe, with driving with a suspended license.
CHUNG: And finally...
HOPKINS: The real criminals have...
CHUNG: Go ahead.
HOPKINS: The real criminals, the one that attempted murder with this deadly weapon, and beat the child, they've not been charged with anything. And we understand that only one of them has been suspended. I think he's only suspended because he was the only one caught on tape.
CHUNG: We -- I have just one more question for you, Mr. Hopkins. Do you intend to file any complaints against the police department on behalf of your clients?
HOPKINS: We intend to seek justice in the courts, unless we get a call from the proper authorities saying that they want to do the right thing without a jury being present. We don't think we're going to get that call.
CHUNG: Thank you so much, Mr. Hopkins, and Mr. Chavis, and Donovan. We appreciate your being with us.
Still ahead, a new report has prompted a second look at one of the most popular and controversial modern diets, the Atkins diet. We'll ask the author for the truth about fat. Stay with us. ANNOUNCER: Coming up, no funeral, no memorial. His body frozen in a bitter dispute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBY JO FERRELL, TED WILLIAMS' DAUGHTER: This is not even a science. This is insane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The fight over Ted Williams' legacy. "CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT" will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: What did Rodney King get after suing the city of Los Angeles for his 1991 beating at the hands of four LAPD officers? A jury gave him $3.8 million. He got his High School Equivalency degree, and invested in a rap music label, but the money ran out, and King returned to life on the wrong side of the law. He is currently serving a one-year sentence at a drug rehab center.
CHUNG: Could you even imagine doing the following to your parent's remains? Freeze them, sell the DNA? These are questions few people would have imagined when Ted Williams died on Friday at the age of 83. But that's exactly what's happening today as his children squabble over him.
Most debates about Williams centered on whether he was the greatest hitter who ever lived, but now, as CNN's Bill Delaney reports, the big debate is about what will happen to him after life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In baseball and in his long life, Ted Williams conjured a kind of unstudied elegance, class, and the fire of a dazzling athlete and complicated man.
(on camera): Ted Williams first came here to Boston, to Fenway Park, in 1939. A kid out of San Diego, just out of his teens. A kind of brilliant wild child with a mostly absent father, a mother who was a soldier in the Salvation Army who wasn't around much either, a brother who went to jail.
(voice-over): Used to doing things his way, he would feud for years with the famously opinionated fans and press of Boston where he would play until 1960. Six-feet-three-inches tall, a handsome tough guy in a tough sports town.
LEIGH MONTVILLE, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": He was very much a solo performer in a team game. He was like John Wayne, he was a big guy physically and he talked like John Wayne and cursed. And he was not a disappointment.
DELANEY: The real deal, who gave up prime playing years to serve in World War II, and then fly 39 combat missions in Korea. DON ZIMMER, NEW YORK YANKEES: He was the best hitter that ever lived, the best fisherman that ever lived, the best pilot that ever lived. But that's the way Ted Williams was. He was going to be the best at everything he did.
DELANEY: After baseball, he mellowed, always revered, now beloved, even in Boston.
MONTVILLE: He became like the world's nicest guy. He handled everybody nice. People would come up to him to take his picture. He'd say, well, are you going to take the lens cap off? You know, and they'd be very nervous.
DELANEY: Married three times, father of three. One daughter is now battling a son she says wants to deep freeze their father's body.
FERRELL: He said, well, you know, we can sell dad's DNA. And people will buy that because they'd love to have little Ted Williamses. This is not even a science. This is insane.
DELANEY: And to many, a low-class finish to a first-class life.
Bill Delaney, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining me now is sports analyst, reporter, broadcaster and occasional gadfly, CNN's Keith Olbermann, who I'm willing to bet is the proud owner of a Williams rookie card?
KEITH OLBERMANN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes, but no part of his body, I'm happy very to say that, nor would I want one..
CHUNG: I mean, this is macabre. Here you have a hero, a World War II hero, Korean War hero and, of course, on the baseball field. This is terrible. He obviously has a dysfunctional family.
OLBERMANN: He has a dysfunctional family. There is some indication that the son, John Henry, who sort of took over his father's life the last 10 years, is being demonized to some degree. And there was a report in one of the Boston papers today that suggested that that might not have been fair, that given Ted's interest in science, he was a pilot, he was a pilot of jet aircraft when they didn't really work that well and he had to crash land in Korea, given his interest in it, that he may have said, yes, I want to be frozen afterwards.
CHUNG: Oh, no.
OLBERMANN: He may have said it.
CHUNG: You can't begin to make me believe that.
OLBERMANN: Legally, if there are not -- if there is not a chain of evidence and documents signed by Ted Williams that's a mile long, they can't keep his frozen. They can't keep his body there. So it's not -- it's going to to be addressed legally one way or the other. But that's the article.
CHUNG: The medical attendant who was taking care of him for the last 10 years said he never would have wanted -- he wanted to be cremated and he wanted his ashes to be dispersed somewhere.
OLBERMANN: Well, he certainly -- we are seeing on top of everything else, the ghoulishness, the bad timing, the bad press, the dysfunctional family, we are seeing the absolute ends of the spectrum as to what can happen to you after you die: cremation, cryogenics. There's not too much further apart than those two things.
It is an extraordinary thing. It is the stuff of science fiction. But I'm not willing to dismiss the idea that either John Henry convinced his father to go along with this or it might have even been Ted Williams' idea. It's possible. I'm waiting to see more and I'm sure the courts will decide it for us.
CHUNG: Well, there isn't any question he ostracized that particular daughter, right? Bobby Jo is her name...
OLBERMANN: Bobby Jo Farrell.
CHUNG: Bobby Jo Farrell. And we have another little sound bite from her that we can show you right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FARRELL: My dad's in a metal tube on his head, so frozen that if I touched him, it would crack him because of the warmth from my fingertips. It makes me so sick. And it's not what my dad would have wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: She was completely estranged from him, right?
OLBERMANN: Pretty much so. And she claimed that she hadn't been in touch with them, with Ted Williams or with John Henry for about the last year. And every time she had attempted, and many other who were people close to Ted Williams who attempted to see him in the last year, John Henry intervened.
But then again, Ted Williams was a very sick man, coming off of open-heart surgery and two strokes in the last 10 years. He may have been justified in doing that. His father may not have been well enough to see anybody over a prolonged period of time.
I don't want to sit here and sound like an advocate for John Henry because this is -- you know, to discuss even in jest that you might sell off pieces of your father's DNA so people can go out and clone more Ted Williamses or to freeze him in hopes of making the ultimate sports comeback is descriptive of a ghoulish mind to begin with, but I don't know that it's necessarily something that people should throw stones at him for when he goes out in public.
CHUNG: All right. Keith Olbermann, all right, I'll listen to that. But I doubt it.
OLBERMANN: We'll find out.
CHUNG: OK.
OLBERMANN: And we'll get the deicing stuff out and we'll find out.
CHUNG: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Sorry.
CHUNG: Still ahead, has the King of Pop flipped his lid? A take on this story coming up. So, don't touch that remote.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 24 hours, I would have died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: For the first time, two anthrax survivors share their harrowing stories when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Late last year, as the nation was still reeling from September 11, it seemed as if a second wave of attacks had begun, bioterror attacks. Even today, we still don't know who was responsible. What we do know today is something doctors never expected. Some of the people who inhaled anthrax have survived it. These six people are rare in medicine. And we'll talk to two of them in just a moment.
But first, CNN's Michael Okwu, who tells us how the crisis unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-five days after 9/11, a scare in Florida, images that conjure bioterrorism. The first case of inhalation anthrax in almost 25 years. And the nagging question asked around the country: Is this an isolated case or a harbinger of something much worse?
UNIDENTIFIED U.S. GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL: Based on what we know at this point, it appears that it's an isolated case.
OKWU: Robert Stevens, a 63-year-old photo editor for "The Sun" newspaper, dies on October 5. The media ominously reports he lived close to the airstrip the hijackers used for training.
DR. BRADLEY PERKINS, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Well, we get calls about a lot of serious illness at CDC, but this one was different.
OKWU (on camera): What followed was a process which, in the coming weeks, would be repeated with startling regularity. The federal government dispatched teams of scientists and law enforcement personnel to scour areas where the victim had been seen.
PERKINS: We developed a very strong circumstantial case that, in fact, it was a piece of mail that entered the workplace.
OKWU: October 12, authorities confirm an aide to NBC's Tom Brokaw has contracted the less deadly cutaneous anthrax. It becomes clear the news media is a target.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: At this point, there are four confirmed anthrax cases in New York City: one at NBC, one at ABC, one at CBS and one at the "New York Post."
OKWU: People are alarmed. Pharmacies report a run on ciprofloxacin, despite warnings from health officials not to use the antibiotic unless diagnosed. By this time, anthrax-laced letters postmarked in Trenton, New Jersey and addressed to Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy have infected nine postal workers in Washington and New Jersey. October 21...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My breathing is very, very labored.
OKWU: D.C. postal employee Thomas Morris, Jr. calls 911. He dies of inhalation anthrax. One day later, a fellow worker also dies. Ten days later, a remarkable announcement.
GLADYS GEORGE, LENNOX HILL HOSPITAL: Kathy Nguyen, a 61-year-old employee of Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital, died early this morning.
OKWU: Inhalation anthrax, though this time, a hospital worker with no known ties to the government, the post office or the media.
November 21st: Ottilie Lundgren, a 94-year-old resident of a small Connecticut town, becomes the nation's fifth anthrax death. In all, 18 people were infected, but it was these last two cases that underscored the puzzle. What started with questions ended with many more. Just who was responsible for this? What happened to the victims who didn't die? What has been the price of survival?
Michael Okwu, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining me now are two people who know that price far too well. They both survived, but life is hardly back to normal for either of them. David Hose remains too sick to travel, so he's with us from Winchester, Virginia. Here in the studio with me is Norma Wallace. Thank you both for being with us.
Norma, tell me, you were working at the postal facility in New Jersey, correct? NORMA WALLACE, INHALED ANTHRAX: That's right.
CHUNG: And you were obviously exposed to anthrax. You inhaled it. How soon did you feel sick?
WALLACE: It must have been maybe about five to seven days after I inhaled it.
CHUNG: And what were the symptoms?
WALLACE: I had tightness of chest. First, I had a very high fever.
CHUNG: How high?
WALLACE: A fever of 102. And I had that for three days. And didn't realize that it was connected with the anthrax. I thought I was just having a cold. While I did get worse, I didn't think -- I didn't know what wheezing was. I had never had it. So, I didn't realize that I was worse. So, I waited until Friday.
CHUNG: So you were having trouble breathing?
WALLACE: I was having trouble breathing.
CHUNG: So, you went into the hospital?
WALLACE: I went into the hospital and I was in there about four days before they told me that I was suspected anthrax.
CHUNG: How serious was it? Did you think that your life was in danger?
WALLACE: Yes. Yes, I did. I had asked my brother to go on the Internet and see if he could find out anything about anthrax. And he brought me back a printout that said that -- basically, it said I was in the second stage.
CHUNG: Which meant?
WALLACE: Which meant that within 24 hours, I would have died.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh.
WALLACE: And that was pretty scary. But I had told my daughter, I said, you know, if I'm going to die, I'm ready for it.
CHUNG: Miraculously, you survived.
WALLACE: Yes.
CHUNG: So, I do want to get to David Hose, but just tell me quickly, how do you feel now?
WALLACE: I feel pretty good now. I still have the fatigue and the joint pain. I have a souvenir from the anthrax which is a lump in my back. And no one can, you know, say basically what it is or if it's going to go away. They told me initially, the doctor told me that it will dissipate within the six months. So, it's been more than six months and it's still there.
CHUNG: David Hose, tell me, you were working for the state department's mail facility and you came down with inhalation, the inhalation form of anthrax. When did you realize that it was so serious that you needed to go to the hospital?
DAVID HOSE, INHALED ANTHRAX: On the third day of the symptoms. The first day, it was just heavy sweating. And in the second day, on my way home from work, all my joints started hurting. I hurt all over. And then I started throwing up. And I was throwing up blood.
CHUNG: Oh, dear.
HOSE: And so, by noon the next morning, I felt good enough to drive myself to the emergency room. And I was there for about four hours. It took me about two hours to talk the doctor into taking a blood test because I knew this wasn't normal. And they sent me home with a Cipro prescription and cough medicine, because I was coughing a lot too.
CHUNG: All right. Did they think it was anthrax and that's why they gave you the antibiotics, Cipro?
HOSE: Well, I finally told them -- they had taken six letters out of my -- out of the annex down there and gave them to the sheriff's department for the FBI. So, I think once I told them that, that they had already taken all these suspicious letters out, they finally went ahead and took the blood test.
CHUNG: Finally, when were you diagnosed?
HOSE: They called me at five minutes to 8:00 the following morning, on Thursday morning, 10/25.
CHUNG: Tell me...
HOSE: And they told me I definitely had it.
CHUNG: Did that frighten you?
HOSE: Go ahead.
CHUNG: Sure, because...
HOSE: At the time, I was too sick to be scared.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Tell me how -- tell me how you are now, because I know you've been having a -- quite a terrible time.
HOSE: Well, I still got that chronic fatigue syndrome. I myself carried a high fever from the end of October to right after Christmas. Anywhere from three and a half, to five and a half degrees above normal. And that caused some kind of a encephalitis-like anthrax. And that causes memory loss. Short-term memory loss, it messes your memory up, and I'm still going through that.
CHUNG: Yes, are you experiencing that as well, Norma?
WALLACE: Yes, I am.
CHUNG: How about concentration, David?
HOSE: Yes. At times, it's hard. And I also have that swelling on my back, too, and it hasn't gone away.
CHUNG: Tell me, has the government helped you at all, David, in terms of guiding you with this illness? Has the CDC helped?
HOSE: They have mainly been there to take blood samples.
CHUNG: And what do they want those blood samples for?
HOSE: As far as guiding me anywhere -- I assume towards a new vaccine.
CHUNG: Norma, have you gotten any help from the Centers for Disease Control?
WALLACE: No, I've gotten the same thing David has. They -- they're doing a blood study to see if they can develop a vaccine.
CHUNG: So it sounds to me as if it's a one way street there.
WALLACE: It definitely is.
CHUNG: They're just...
WALLACE: We're -- we're basically like, you know, in an experiment -- experimental stage now, because we are survivors and they haven't had human survivors.
CHUNG: Of inhalation anthrax?
WALLACE: Right, of inhalation anthrax, where they can get feedback.
CHUNG: David, do you feel the same way? Norma is saying that she feels as if she's just part of an experiment.
HOSE: Absolutely. Every one of us was evidently treated completely different from the other, and I was treated very well at the hospital, but I don't understand why all of us didn't get the same treatment. You would think it's the same thing, it would get the same treatment. It looks like all the rest of them didn't.
CHUNG: Now, have either of you been able to go back to your jobs? David, I assume you haven't.
HOSE: No. Not at all.
CHUNG: Would you like -- would you like to? I mean, if you were well enough, would you like to go back and work?
HOSE: Yes, I would like to get well enough, that's for sure.
CHUNG: Norma, have you been able to go back to work?
WALLACE: No, I haven't.
CHUNG: Any thoughts about suing the post office, getting some retribution?
WALLACE: Well, I've gotten a couple of calls from some law firms that are interested in seeing what kind of litigation can be brought, not only against the post office, but also against the other government agencies involved.
CHUNG: David, have you considered a lawsuit of any sort?
HOSE: I've certainly thought about it. I would go myself for Fort Detrick and Ames, Iowa, rather than -- these are the people that should be controlling these dangerous weapons of war, and they didn't do their job, evidently.
CHUNG: David Hose, we hope you're feeling better soon, and I just -- I wish that someone knew some -- knew what to do to help you and Norma Wallace. Thank you so much for being with us. Norma Wallace and David Hose.
We'll be back in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: Up next, the "King of Pop" pops off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: Racism is bad. Tommy Mottola made some very racist remarks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Michael Jackson goes another round with his record label when "CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT" continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: At the beginning of the hour, we spoke with the teenager who was seen on videotape being beaten by police in Inglewood, California outside Los Angeles. Police departments involved would not make the officers available for interviews, but we have managed to find the amateur photographer whose handiwork with the video camera led to all of this.
He is Mitchell Crooks, and he joins us from Los Angeles -- thank you, Mitch. Mitch, you were in a hotel room right across from the gas station. Tell me exactly what you saw. MITCHELL CROOKS, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: Well, first I heard a lady, she was screaming, like, you know, Please don't, please don't hurt him, please don't resist. And so I looked out the window, actually thought maybe it was a fight amongst two people inside the hotel. I looked out and I saw the lady all by herself looking across the street. I didn't even hesitate, I grabbed my camera, I sprinted to the edge of the balcony there, and I just started filming it. By the time I had got there, I realized that it was probably over with, because he was down on the ground, and he was in handcuffs. So I thought that that was, you know, probably the end of the tape, you know. I wasn't -- there was nothing to see.
CHUNG: But in fact, it was not over.
CROOKS: No. Absolutely not...
CHUNG: When you began rolling -- when you were rolling your videotape, what did you see?
CROOKS: I saw him -- them pick up the guy like he was a crash test dummy or something, and the officer carried him over to the car, and slammed him -- looked like with all of his force, everything he had, just slammed him down on the car, and then the guy started looking up -- the kid started looking up, and he had a complete dazed look on his face, like you know, What -- what's going on, what's happening, you know, and I think he had been beaten pretty bad before that, and then just out of the blue, a cop just punched him right in the face. It was quite awful. I was really disturbed by it.
CHUNG: Did you see anything that would say to you, well, these two people, Mr. Chavis and his son, deserve to be beaten up?
CROOKS: Nobody deserves to beat up -- to be beaten up, especially when they are in the custody of police.
CHUNG: I mean, were they -- were they resisting in any way that would cause you to say to yourself, Oh, those officers are just doing their jobs?
CROOKS: They weren't doing their jobs, they were holding a vendetta against him, I'm absolutely positive of that. I am absolutely positive.
CHUNG: At the end of this beating process, were they thrown into a police car? What happened after that?
CROOKS: After, after he punched him, then they put him in the police car, and I noticed that they had -- they had noticed me filming it. So I had run back and went back and I transferred the tapes to other people, friends of mine that I had met there in the hotel. I had moved it around because I was afraid that the police were going to come up for it. I went into my room, changed my clothes, and there were seven sheriff officers, like, knocking on the door, asking questions. They didn't know who filmed it or what room they were in, they just knew that somebody had filmed the incident, and so they were looking for it. Soon after, a few detectives had checked into the hotel.
CHUNG: Did they ask you...
CROOKS: No...
CHUNG: Did they ask you if you were filming it?
CROOKS: No, nobody approached me at all. I went into my room and changed my clothes, I grabbed a beer, I went down by the pool, and just acted like I didn't know what was going on at all.
CHUNG: All right. Did you notice if the police had used pepper spray or anything like that?
CROOKS: I didn't see that. I didn't see that. It looked like he was probably pepper sprayed because it looked like his vision wasn't proper, looked like they had probably got him in the eye.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you, Mitchell Crooks. We appreciate you're being with us tonight.
CROOKS: Thank you.
CHUNG: When we come back, Michael Jackson and Al Sharpton riding around New York in a double-decker bus? It doesn't get any better than that. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: In case you missed it, Michael Jackson is in the news again. The self-styled King of Pop was asking for help from some of his loyal subjects. And CNN's Anderson Cooper has been trying to put together the pieces for us. Anderson, this weekend, Michael Jackson held a news conference, right, in New York? And so?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're trying to figure out what it's all about. And a lot of people are sort of still scratching their heads. People who saw it on the street were like, what was that about? What's he doing now?
Basically, Michael Jackson held his press conference, in which he attacked the music industry as racist and called his boss, Tommy Mottola, chairman of Sony Music Group, devilish. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: This is very important because throughout the years, black artists have been taken advantage of completely. And it's time now that we have to put a stop to this incredible, incredible injustice. The record companies really, really do conspire against their artists. They steal, they cheat, they do whatever they can, especially the black artists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, Jackson's complaint about the industry is certainly not new, but it's only now that he's found a need to exploit it. Call me a cynic, but I don't think it's just coincidence that his latest album "Invincible" turned out to be more on the vincible side. It only sold two million copies. And I think most of those were freebies given away at the Liza Minnelli and David Gest wedding. I'm not sure if that's true, but I think that's what I heard.
Sony poured $60 million into this album. Jackson says it wasn't enough. And he's right. Connie, you might be interested to know, I've actually crunched some of the numbers. It turns out it would have taken $1 billion to make people buy this album. Jackson capped off his news conference the way I think most of us would, by riding around New York City in a double-decker bus with Al Sharpton. Life does not get any more surreal than this. You got to wonder who thought this one up? Believe me, Connie, this is what happens when your advisers are all 12 years old.
CHUNG: Oh, boo!
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I'm not saying -- that's what I heard. I heard he has 12-year-old advisers. I don't know if these true.
CHUNG: So what I want to know, did Tommy Mottola have anything to say or anybody at Sony have anything to say?
COOPER: Yes. Well, Sony certainly was not pleased about all this. They called the whole thing pretty bizarre. They said it was a publicity stunt and then said they were deeply offended by Jackson's comments.
Now, it almost, and I say almost, makes you feel sorry for Sony executive Tommy Mottola. Now, I don't know him personally, but I'm sure, like most multi-millionaire record executives, he's a sensitive guy. You got to figure, first, Mariah Carey breaks up with this guy. Then he has to sit through "Glitter" watching that, which believe me was no easy task. But I do think "Glitter" is going to do really well on DVD. I know at least three drag queens who cannot wait to buy it. So it has not been a great year for Tommy Mottola.
CHUNG: You know drag queens?
COOPER: A couple.
CHUNG: That's good.
COOPER: That's for a whole other show, though.
CHUNG: This whole business of artists, you know, ganging up on record companies.
COOPER: It's nothing new, yes. Yes, I mean, there's been -- you know, there's a long history of this. And I know you watch "Behind the Music" on VH1. I know...
CHUNG: So, how did you know that? COOPER: I think you and Maury sit there and eat popcorn and watching that. It's like candy, you can't not watch it.
George Michael is another one of these bazillionaire musicians, who, you know, they want us to make us feel sorry for them, like France (ph). Poor George Michael, this guy was forced by Sony to earn millions of dollars and wasn't even allowed to make a single decent song. It must have been really rough being him. Michael has now a different record label. He's just released this video which portrays Britain's prime minister as a dog being scratched by a cartoon of President George Bush. I'm told George Michael still dreams of one day actually writing a good song. My advice? Call Andrew Ridgely.
Now, I'm not sure why, but it seems more and more multi- millionaire musicians expect us to actually help them. Maybe they don't have newspapers in Never Never Land or maybe you can't hear CNN when you're resting in hyperbaric sleep chamber. But somebody needs to tell Michael Jackson there are a lot more important things to be concerned about these days than, well, than Michael Jackson -- Connie.
CHUNG: You know what? It's all your fault for putting that George Michael thing on the air. I didn't do it. You did it. You know, people are going to complain.
COOPER: Really?
CHUNG: Sure.
COOPER: Well, it happened. It's out there. It's on the videos. The kids are watching it.
CHUNG: Do they like it?
COOPER: It depends.
CHUNG: All right. Anderson, it's great to see you.
COOPER: Nice to see you.
CHUNG: So glad you came on.
COOPER: Thanks.
CHUNG: We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: And that's our program for tonight. Tomorrow, CEOs under fire. There was a time when it was a highly coveted job. And now, we'll find out why it's a well-paying bundle of stress and depression. Carrie Fisher will also be here.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE", the latest on the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. See you tomorrow night. Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night.
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