Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Connie Chung Tonight
Photographer of Inglewood Incident Arrested; Why Did Inglewood Officer Strike Handcuffed Teen?
Aired July 11, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight, the police grabbed him right outside our offices. You'll see the surveillance tape. Tonight, more on the ever-changing story.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight from Los Angeles, the man who caught the Inglewood beating on tape caught on tape himself, arrested today in CNN's lobby. We'll tell you what happened.
The police officer at the center of the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly, when you see a five or 10-second cut of that film, it looks violent. But police work is violent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Why did Jeremy Morse strike a handcuffed teen?
Do the Inglewood police have a history of brutally?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEILSON WILLIAMS, ALLEGED BEATING VICTIM: I was gagging for breath, you know, to an officer I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Tonight, another alleged victim comes forward with his story.
ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from Los Angeles, Connie Chung.
Good evening from Los Angeles, where tonight the news came to us. Mitchell Crooks, seen here in this surveillance video, was arrested right outside our offices from the Los Angeles -- the county district attorney's office on several -- he was arrested on several outstanding warrants. Crooks had not complied with a demand by the D.A.'s office that he testify this morning before a grand jury about the videotape he shot last week of Inglewood police hitting a 16-year-old man. Crooks had said repeatedly that he was fearful of his safety if he turned himself in, and that fear can be heard on the videotape shot by CNN cameramen as the officers drove away with Crooks in custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help! Help! Help! Help me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: You can hear him screaming inside that car. Crooks had spoken about his fears yesterday when he was a guest on a local radio program, and a county deputy D.A. called in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITCHELL CROOKS, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: They're just coming after me because I shot the video. That's basically what this is boiling down to now. I'm fearing for my life. They're going to kick my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in the cell, and take turns on me probably.
CURT LIVESAY, DEPUTY D.A.: Mitchell, this is Livesay, D.A.'s office. We want you before the grand jury. We don't want you in a cell somewhere. We want you before the grand jury and we want that original tape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tonight, Crooks was taken to the grand jury and he is, in fact, in a cell on outstanding warrants. For what happened to Mitchell Crooks, let's go to CNN's Frank Buckley. He joins us outside the Los Angeles County courthouse -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, district attorneys, investigators have been attempting for days, in fact, since Monday, to get to Mitchell Crooks. They knew that he was the one who said he shot the videotape of the beating in Inglewood.
What they needed him to do is to appear before the grand jury, which is being used as a tool to investigate this beating. They needed him to appear before this grand jury and to simply do something very simple, that is to authenticate the tape. What that means is he simply needed to say, yes, I shot the videotape, and, yes, the video as it appears is the way I shot it. It hasn't been altered. That's all they need for this particular witness, Mitchell Crooks.
They tried for days. They were in contact with him on the telephone. Crooks continued to say that he was scared and worried that he was going to be harmed in some way, and so he continued to not come in to speak to police. Finally, the district attorney's investigators were able to get to him today. As you know, he was arrested. He was wanted on outstanding warrants. Those warrants from Placer County, California, DUI, hit and run and also petty theft with a prior.
Dean Masterman has just walked up. He is the attorney for Mitchell Crooks. Dean, thanks for coming.
No problem.
BUCKLEY: Tell us, what's the status of your client right now?
DEAN MASTERMAN, MITCHELL CROOKS' ATTORNEY: My understanding from my conversation with the district attorney's office is that he is in transit between criminal courts building behind us to the M.A. reception center at the twin towers.
BUCKLEY: You were upset with the way in which this went down today. He was arrested right at the CNN building. What is your concern?
MASTERMAN: Well, my concern is the same as his concern which is that there's is going to be repercussions from him stepping forward against these police officers. He has had, according to my information, death threats, people angry with him for coming forward against these officers, as well as there are many people who support everything he's done.
He never at any time indicated he didn't want to validate or authenticate the tape that's in front of the grand jury if, in fact, they have the original tape. His concern was simply that someone is going to come and get him. If he was really concerned about his warrants that are allegedly out of Placer County, he wouldn't have stepped forward in the first place. But obviously he put his concerns aside and came out with the videotape.
BUCKLEY: Now, you were kind enough to come over here to speak with us. I know you've been waiting over at the county jail facility to talk to your client. Do you know if he was in fact able to authenticate today before the grand jury that this was a tape that he shot?
MASTERMAN: I do not. Mr. Livesay went on John and Ken's radio show earlier today. He played a little word game. All he would say is that my client was on the 13th floor. The grand jury is, in fact, on the 13th floor. They picked him up specifically to take him to the 13th floor. I can only assume that he either went there to testify or a judge ordered him to testify or he refused to testify. But he was there in front of the grand jury.
BUCKLEY: If he, in fact, refuses to testify with regard to this particular tape, what are the options that are available to the grand jury, to the district attorney's office, in terms of getting him to authenticate this tape?
MASTERMAN: Well, I don't think they're going to have any problem getting him to authenticate the tape. I don't think he's going to refuse to testify or refuse to authenticate. I think he'll do everything in his power to help the young man who was beaten and thrown onto the hood of the car. His concern has always been just for his own safety.
And I think, hopefully, that that's protected now. All the media coverage that's going on and Mr. Livesay going on the radio and saying, we took him and here's where we took him and now he's going over here, everybody is taking extra caution to make sure that we know his whereabouts, except I haven't got to speak to him, and know that he's safe because it is a legitimate concern.
BUCKLEY: Why do you say it's a concern? Who would the threat be coming from?
MASTERMAN: I wouldn't know specifically. I would assume people in favor of law enforcement, people against the rights of African- Americans, white supremacists. I don't know. Anybody can make a threat. He apparently has gotten threats and he takes them seriously.
BUCKLEY: He -- the district attorney's office has been trying for days to get him to come forward. He was not served as far as we know until today. Do you know why he chose to continue to evade, and did he hope that he could never come forward? What was his...
MASTERMAN: I don't think that he was evading. And the fact that he was just served today means that he did not fail to appear this morning at 8:30 for a subpoena. My information is he was not subpoenaed and did not have to appear at 8:30 this morning. The fact that they used strong-arm tactics to pick him on the street at CNN while he's outside smoking a cigarette is ridiculous in light of the fact that he was never served with a subpoena. And that's our belief.
And although I don't think that in light of all of the scrutiny that's around the case now, people are going to use physical force or violence against him, it's certainly questionable why they used the tactics they did when they hadn't, in fact, served him with a subpoena, or even if they had, why they didn't just walk up, introduce themselves and say, you know, we got you now. Come on with us.
BUCKLEY: OK. Thank you very much for that insight. The attorney of Mitchell Crooks -- Connie.
CHUNG: Frank Buckley, thank you so much for that interview.
Tonight, as Frank reported, Crooks was taken to the grand jury and he is, in fact, in a cell on outstanding warrants. Among the witnesses who saw the arrest unfold were Dan Hanna, a friend of Mitchell Crooks. And just a few moments ago, I spoke with him and I spoke with Tom Martinez, who sheltered Crooks last night. And you should bear in mind that Dan Hannah, the friend of Mitchell Crooks, says that he was planning to cooperate with the grand jury and the D.A.'s office. Here's the interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
With me now are Dan Hanna, who's a friend of Mitchell Crooks, the videographer; and Tom Martinez of TAM Broadcasting, an independent studio here in Los Angeles. Thank you both for being with us.
Dan, you had been traveling with Mitchell over the last two months and you both arrived here in Los Angeles each staying at a different hotel, and that's how Mitchell was able to videotape what he saw. Now, how would you describe how Mitchell had felt from the time he took that videotape until about today?
DAN HANNA, MITCHELL CROOKS' FRIEND: I believe he's gone through many emotions. First, he was shocked and terrified by the video. And then after the police came looking for the video, he became more terrified because...
CHUNG: Why was he terrified?
HANNA: Because of the fact that he felt that if the police found the video, then they would be able to brush the whole thing under the table.
CHUNG: Now, Tom Martinez, he was with you for the last 18 hours?
TOM MARTINEZ, PRODUCER, TAM BROADCASTING: Yes.
CHUNG: Why was he with you? Actually, he had done an interview, isn't that correct, in your studio?
MARTINEZ: Yes, that's correct.
CHUNG: And then tell me what were his concerns?
MARTINEZ: Well, immediately after the interview, when we went off the air, he told me that he didn't want to go back in the limousine to go back to the hotel that the show had put him up in because he was frightened and he said, basically, he says, all I have here is you and the makeup artist and that was it. And...
CHUNG: So what did you do?
MARTINEZ: Well, I told him, well, if you're really that scared, I had an out of town guest coming to stay with me. So I said, well, I could put you up in a hotel room downtown -- or down in Long Beach where I live. And then in the morning, if you want, you can come back to the station because you're probably going to be doing live shots most of the day. You can do the live shots from our facility (UNINTELLIGIBLE) interviews. You'll feel more comfortable in one location and so you won't be traveling around town. So, he agreed. And he spent the night on my couch.
CHUNG: Instead, he wouldn't stay in the hotel?
MARTINEZ: No. He didn't want to be alone. He didn't want to stay in a hotel room.
CHUNG: So, he spent the night on your couch?
MARTINEZ: So, he spent the night on my couch.
CHUNG: And then, today, he was with you all day?
MARTINEZ: This morning, we woke up and, you know, we came in. And he really wanted to get his face on television doing as many types of shows as he could so people would recognize him because he was afraid that if the police caught him, you know, what they might do to him. That's what he told me.
CHUNG: But, what was he afraid they would do to him?
MARTINEZ: Well, he mentioned to me that he had had run-ins with the police in the past and that he was just frightened for his safety if they got him.
CHUNG: All right. Now, at about 12:15, he was supposed to meet you, Dan, correct?
HANNA: Correct.
CHUNG: In this building, on the first floor, in the lobby. You were not around at the time. So, Mitchell went downstairs by himself. And you met him?
HANNA: That's correct.
CHUNG: What happened?
HANNA: I met him. I handed him the tape.
CHUNG: And why were you handing him a tape and what was the tape? Was it the original?
HANNA: It was the original, full-length tape with the footage on it.
CHUNG: And it also included a little documentary that Mitchell had made of his travels, when you were traveling together?
HANNA: That's correct.
CHUNG: All right. Now, why were you handing the tape to him?
HANNA: I was handing the tape to him so that Tom could make a full-length copy in case something ever happened to the original.
CHUNG: All right. And what happened? When you met with Mitchell down in the lobby...
HANNA: I met with Mitch. I gave him the tape and the camera. And then I was going to take off and let him go back inside the building. But he said, no, go ahead, and go ahead and park. In the meantime, when I went up to go park, by the time I got to the fifth parking level, parked the car and got out, I heard some screaming. I was like, oh no. This isn't happening.
I rushed to the edge of the parking structure, looked down into the alley where he was, and I saw three cars and, I don't know, six men and a bunches of bystanders all watching. I was terrified. I just ran down all the steps. I saw them handcuff and put him in the car and he yelled to me, get inside the building. Get inside the building quickly.
CHUNG: Was he screaming? HANNA: He was screaming.
CHUNG: As it turned out to be, officers of the Los Angeles County D.A., the D.A.'s office had contacted him, is that correct, about testifying before a grand jury?
HANNA: The D.A.'s office had called on my phone three times looking for him. He returned their calls the first time, left a message. The second time, he called back, there was also a machine. He left a message. And then the third time he called was yesterday. It was about 2:00 in the afternoon. And he spoke with Alan Jarvis (ph) from the district attorney's office...
CHUNG: Yes.
HANNA: ... at which time Alan Jarvis told him they didn't need to arrest him. There was going to be no problem. They just wanted his testimony. He could come down, bring whoever he wanted with him and talk about it. They just wanted to talk. And, actually, many times, Alan had mentioned on the phone, I just need to talk to him and we can do it over the phone if need be.
CHUNG: Did he agree? Did Mitchell agree to go and talk to the D.A. either on the phone or in person?
HANNA: Yes. He agreed to go talk to them.
CHUNG: So, in your mind, was there any reason why the D.A.'s office had to come and arrest him?
HANNA: No. And, as a matter of fact, nothing was ever mentioned about the subpoena at that -- at 2:00. And the subpoena wasn't even brought to the attention until he went on the air with KFI Radio at 4:00, at which time they told him the D.A.'s office was downstairs waiting for him and somehow, they seemed to try to give him an on-air subpoena, read it to him over the phone.
CHUNG: He was apparently taken into custody because of outstanding warrants for his arrest. Do you know anything about these other outstanding warrants? Apparently, one involved a DUI. One involved hit and run. Another, a robbery, and this is all in Placer County, which is in central California, near Sacramento.
HANNA: yes, I guess. I mean, I've heard about the stories, but I'm not sure of the specifics. I don't...
CHUNG: Well...
HANNA: I was going to say I don't know if he felt he had any warrants out because he was arrested by the LAPD for a jaywalking ticket.
CHUNG: When he was here?
HANNA: When he was here, LAPD, you know, basically, he was not even jaywalking. He happened to be in the center island of a street waiting for the light and the police came up, messed for him, asked for his ID. He didn't have it on him. And so, they handcuffed him, took his downtown, have him sit on a bench for about two hours while they ran his name through the FBI and all these different things, at which time they let him go.
CHUNG: What day was this?
HANNA: I'm not sure exactly. It was September, October, after September 11, somewhere in there.
CHUNG: Last year?
HANNA: Yes.
CHUNG: I see. So, you're saying, at that time that they had taken him into custody, checked him through and none of these outstanding warrants popped up?
HANNA: Yes. They let him go. So, it seemed that he felt that they would have taken him into custody and kept him if he had the outstanding warrants.
CHUNG: When he slept at your place last night, was he terrified or was he...
MARTINEZ: He was. Yes, he was terrified. And I told him, hey, you're safe here. You know, this is a secure building. You're perfectly safe here. And he said he stayed -- he stayed awake most of the night, and he maybe just fell asleep when the sun was coming up. So, he hadn't slept very much in the last three days.
And I heard him this morning on the phone talking to his mother and, you know, he was very scared. The kid was very scared. And I kind of felt for him. You know, being in the situation that he was, and what he had captured and the whole drama of everything, that I think it's just way overwhelming for anybody. And him, in the position that he's at now, I could almost guarantee that he would give away anything or turn -- would have never have fired up that videocamera if he knew what was going to happen to him.
CHUNG: All right. Tom Martinez, thank you so much. Dan Hanna, thank you for being with us.
HANNA: Thank you.
MARTINEZ: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: I also spoke with Mitchell Crooks' mother today, and she said, and I quote, "he had problems in early years, but he's been doing good the last few years." And referring to that videotape that he shot, she said, "he tried to do good and it backfired on him." She also said the sad part about this is that the light is being directed on him, meaning her son Mitchell. "Instead," she said, "it should be directed on the young man who was mistreated in the video." Now, while the spotlight shifted today to the exploits involving Mitchell Crooks, the people at the center of this case, the Inglewood Police Department, broke their silence today. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez joins us now with details on what they had to say -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Connie, you know, it's been nearly a week since this incident occurred, and we're finally today hearing from the police chief. Now, the Inglewood police chief, Ronald Banks, has been on vacation in Hawaii. And today, he held a news conference saying he's concerned after watching the videotape.
Inglewood Mayor Roosevelt Dorn said that officer Jerry (sic) Morse should be fired. But the police chief said today it's too early to make that determination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF RONALD BANKS, INGLEWOOD POLICE: There is no evidence and I have had no evidence, as I said with my tenure with this department, that this or any other incident is an incident of racial profiling. We serve a heavily minority community. We serve them on a daily basis well within the guidelines of our policy. And to take this particular incident and characterize it as an example of racial profiling to me is unwarranted.
We in no way condone or encourage excessive or improper use by our officers. But the constitutional principles of due process for anyone under investigation should always be safeguarded. So, we hope in an atmosphere of impartiality, we ask that these same rights be extended to the officers who have dedicated themselves to serve the community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: All right. Thelma, the one question I have is that did the mayor, Mayor Dorn, have anything to say about what the police said?
GUTIERREZ: Well, you know, you would expect so, Connie, because he's been extremely vocal about this case since the very beginning. But Mayor Dorn has not issued an official response to the police chief's comments. CNN has made several attempts to reach the mayor, but so far, he's not been available for comment.
CHUNG: All right. I know there have been a number of demonstrations over the last few days. Is there anything occurring tomorrow?
GUTIERREZ: Yes, you're right. There was a very vocal protest not too long ago. But tomorrow, the Reverend Al Sharpton of New York will join community leaders for a rally in front of the Inglewood Police Station tomorrow morning. But so far, there is no question, Connie, I wanted to mention that among the Inglewood residents that we have talked to, there is a sense of outrage over the tape, over what they saw. But overwhelmingly, most of the people they want to wait to see how the investigation pans out, and they said that they'll wait before they make a determination, to try to keep an open mind.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you, Thelma Gutierrez.
Up next -- we finally hear from the lawyer representing Officer Jeremy Morse. We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They beat me, I will get hit from here to there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A man who claims he also was a victim of excessive force in Inglewood. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: The Los Angeles riots, with more than 50 deaths, hundreds of stores destroyed, $1 billion in damage, possibly never would have happened if a plumber named George Holliday hadn't just bought a video camera. Holliday wasn't afraid to tape police officers beating Rodney King in 1991. In fact, he called police the next day to find out what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE HOLLIDAY: I called the police department and they pretty much hung up on me. I was even before I could mention I had a tape of it. So then I called Channel 5. They asked to watch it. So I took it over there on my lunch break, and they showed it that night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: That's when the story took off. The officers went on trial, and their acquittal sparked a 1992 riots. Two of the officers were later convicted on civil rights charges, but whatever happened to the man whose amateur videotape changed a city? And what role did the Los Angeles marathon play in all of it? The answers when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Whatever happened to George Holliday, the man who taped the Rodney King beating? He made several thousand dollars selling rights to the tape for everything from movies to rap videos. Still a plumber, he now has his own company. The original tape and camera were taken as evidence, and Holliday says that the only reason he even had a camera that night was he had just bought it so he can videotape a friend who was running the Los Angeles marathon.
CHUNG: The videotape that we've seen all week, the tape that apparently led to Mitchell Crooks' apprehension tonight seems to tell a damning story, but videotape does not necessarily show everything, and one man whose side of the story had not been heard is Inglewood Police Officer Jeremy Morse. He is still not talking, but his attorney, John Barnett, joins us tonight with Officer Morse's account of what happened. Thank you so much for being with us.
JOHN BARNETT, ATTORNEY FOR JEREMY MORSE: Glad to be here.
CHUNG: Do you have no doubt talked to your client and his version of what happened that day may very well be different. Why don't you just start from the beginning and tell us what he says happened?
BARNETT: Well, I'm not going to tell you what he's told me. I'll tell you what I think the evidence is going to show, and I think the evidence is going to show it is a very simple case.
CHUNG: Why can't you tell us what he has told you happened?
BARNETT: Because that's within the attorney/client privilege. I have done an investigation. I have consulted a number of different sources, and I have a very good idea of what the evidence is going to show.
CHUNG: OK. What will it show?
BARNETT: It's going to show that my client came upon a scene, assisted other officers with a subject who would not comply with orders. He was on the ground; my client attempted to pick him up. When he did pick him up, there was resistance. They needed to take him off the ground because a crowd was gathering. As he stood him up, the person, the individual did not stand, and so he had to be placed upon the hood of the car. Once he was placed on the hood of the car...
CHUNG: Wait a minute. You're saying that he would not stand up?
BARNETT: That's right.
CHUNG: And that's why Officer Morse slammed him against the car?
BARNETT: That's exactly right. You'll see that his legs -- he makes his legs limp and he will not stand up, and so he has to be placed on the hood of the car.
CHUNG: Why wasn't he just placed on the hood of the car instead of slammed down?
BARNETT: Well, because the officer is holding him and is expecting him to sit -- to stand, and he doesn't. And the weight of the individual's on him, and so he must put him on the car so that he will not be on the ground. They cannot have him on the ground.
CHUNG: I mean, if you look at this videotape, do you honestly believe that it appears as if he -- well, just before this particular incident -- but that he couldn't stand up or wasn't standing up, and he's throwing him against the car because he won't stand up?
BARNETT: That's exactly right. And I think that any fair viewing of that will show anyone that that is exactly what happened.
CHUNG: All right. According to a police report that your client filled out, it said that he -- he claims the teenager was grabbing his crotch while he was handcuffed. Is that correct?
BARNETT: I think that's what the evidence is going to show. And I don't think there's any doubt about that, and I think that that is the reason why that's -- the subject was punched, is because he did assault the officer with his hands. And that's not contradicted by the tape.
CHUNG: Well, according to the family, this boy has a disability that perhaps the police officers had told him to do X, Y or Z, but that he's very slow in responding or comprehending. Do you know if that was -- what occurred according to your client?
BARNETT: I don't know if that's what occurred, but my client has no way of knowing whether a person that refuses to obey lawful orders is doing so because of a disability or because of recalcitrance.
CHUNG: But do you believe that your client had expressed to you the resistance on the part of the teenager?
BARNETT: Well, the teenager did not comply with the lawful request and orders of the officers on scene.
CHUNG: Do you know if he simply stood there, or that he was actually fighting the officers?
BARNETT: He was actually fighting the officers.
CHUNG: He was? Now, we're going to show a little bit more of this videotape, and it will show a laceration on the face of your client. Do you know how that injury occurred?
BARNETT: Yes. It was in his attempt to restrain the subject.
CHUNG: And are you saying that the teenager actually hit him?
BARNETT: I'm saying that the teenager caused that injury and another injury on my client's neck.
CHUNG: How did he cause the injury?
BARNETT: By grabbing at his face.
CHUNG: Grabbing at his face?
BARNETT: Yes.
CHUNG: You can't really see it very well, but as we go in -- are you talking about the cut above his eye? BARNETT: No. I'm talking about the -- there's a cut above his ear, and you can see blood flowing down beside his ear, but there's also a long mark on his neck which you cannot see.
CHUNG: And how did the teenager do it, according to your client?
BARNETT: Well, it was during the struggle.
CHUNG: How does your client explain his use of force? Does he believe in any way that it was excessive?
BARNETT: No. He does not believe, and it was not excessive. It was a force that was required under these circumstances.
CHUNG: All right. I want to show you a videotape of Mayor Dorn, he is the Inglewood mayor, and this is what he said just a couple of days ago to us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ROOSEVELT DORN, INGLEWOOD: I don't care what happened prior to the videotape being turned on. There's nothing that could have happened that this young man could have done that would justify the conduct of the officer in regard to this young man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Do you have a response to that?
BARNETT: I do. The mayor has -- took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and he well knows that there's a presumption of innocence. And for him to get on television and to find this officer guilty without a complete review of the evidence and without an opportunity for all sides to be heard is reprehensible. And it misleads the public. This is exactly what happened in the Rodney King case, where elected officials came out, pronounced the officers guilty, and then, when there was insufficient evidence to justify that claim and they were acquitted, there was disaster. And that is what...
CHUNG: I know you represented one of those clients -- I mean, one of those officers who was charged in state charges. But however, the federal government, actually, pressed charges, and there were damages awarded. So there was a -- if you look at the face of it, there was a split decision.
BARNETT: Well, with respect to my client, he was found not guilty in both the federal and the state trial, and found not liable in the civil action. So, I don't think that it's a draw. And I think that it is extremely unwise for elected officials to make judgments which are contrary to the Constitution, and to bait the public and tell the public and mislead the public as to the state of the evidence, when they well know that these matters are tried in a courtroom, and not from their bench.
CHUNG: Have you seen the surveillance tape that was taken at the gas station and the mini-mart?
BARNETT: No.
CHUNG: Do you know what it contains? Has anyone explained to you what it contains?
BARNETT: No.
CHUNG: I want to show you one more videotape soundbite from Mayor Dorn when he was talking to us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DORN: It would not make any difference if the minor hit him in the face, if the minor cut him in the face. It would make no difference, because the minor at the time that the video was picked up, the minor is subdued. He is handcuffed. He is not a threat to anyone. When he picked him up, he should have taken him to the car, not slammed his head into the hood of that car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Mayor Dorn is making a point and that is that the man -- the teenager is handcuffed, he is not resisting at that point. Why was he slammed against the car? And why was he punched?
BARNETT: He was laid on the car because he went limp.
CHUNG: Do you actually believe he was laid and not slammed?
BARNETT: No, he was placed there and it was in a -- it was violent. And police work is violent. It was necessary at that time. He did what he could do with the body that he thought was going to be standing on his own two feet and where the individual decided not to.
CHUNG: Forgive me. If he's limp, then that would mean he's not fighting anyone. Correct?
BARNETT: Exactly. But his legs were limp, and he had to be brought up from the ground, and he had to be placed on the police car so that they could then move him into the backseat of a police car.
CHUNG: Forgive me, but you honestly view that tape and do not believe that he's being slammed down?
BARNETT: Well, he was put down in a very hard manner, sure.
CHUNG: All right. Your client is now also facing civil charges in the -- forgive me. I don't mean civil charges. A claim by the family. And how will you handle that?
BARNETT: Well, I'm not -- I don't do anything to defend him in his allegations of criminal misconduct. The city's responsible for that.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.
BARNETT: You're welcome.
CHUNG: Coming up -- we have another brutality claim against the Inglewood police, and we'll hear his story just ahead.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead -- do the Inglewood P.D. have a dark history?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One guy was like, I believe, on my back, getting me bent back, and was choking me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: One man steps forward with new claims, when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We'll continue, but first, we go to Aaron Brown in New York for a quick check of tonight's developing stories to the minute -- Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Connie, thank you. And here are the top stories.
A House committee has defied a presidential plan on homeland security. A panel blocked Mr. Bush's request to shift the Coast Guard and the nation's disaster relief agency, FEMA, to the proposed new Homeland Security Department. Committee members say such move would hurt the core missions of those two agencies.
And Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was on the Hill today with more than just a speech in his hand. He's sporting a plaster cast these days on his hand. He had surgery the other day to correct problems he's having with arthritis.
Philadelphia '76ers star basketball player Allen Iverson expected to turn himself into police next Tuesday. He'll face four felony charges. The NBA all-star allegedly forced his way in to his cousin's apartment last week. He is accused of barging into the home while searching for his wife.
First human case of West Nile Virus has been confirmed this year in Louisiana. The virus spread by mosquitoes can be deadly. West Nile has now been reported in 18 Eastern and Southern states, and Washington, D.C.
And El Nino, the weather system that often triggers flooding and dangerous storms is officially back. But scientists say this year's El Nino is expected to be much milder than the last time it hit, which was in 1997 and in '98.
Coming up on "NEWSNIGHT" -- the message behind the president. Have you noticed, though, these little signs behind the president when he speaks? Why are they doing that? And who's doing that? And what's it supposed to mean? Jeff Greenfield joins us tonight. That and much more on a terrific NEWSNIGHT at 10:00 Eastern time.
Connie, you can catch it before you go out to dinner out there in Los Angeles.
CHUNG: Who's going out to dinner? Huh? We work all the time, don't we, Aaron?
BROWN: Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week.
CHUNG: Right.
Coming up -- Donovan Jackson isn't the only person claiming Inglewood police used excessive force. Our next guest lost consciousness while police had him in a choke hold. He'll tell us his story. We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Next...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they beat, I got hit from here to there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A man who claims he also was a victim of excessive force in Inglewood. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Police in Inglewood, California have acknowledged they are investigating another complaint of a police beating. In late June, police reported clashing with a group of men, one of whom they said was belligerent and uncooperative. He was put in a chokehold and lost consciousness. That man, Neilson Williams, told his story on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEILSON WILLIAMS, ALLEGED BEATING VICTIM: They just pretty much slapped me, threw me on top of the car. Well, they pushed me on top of the car. And it was pretty much, you know, being told (ph) -- they were just speaking, you know, saying obscenities or whatever. And they just pretty much, you know, from there handcuffed me and, you know -- the tape of the 16-year-old boy to me describes pretty much what I went through, but on a lot deadlier level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Neilson Williams joins me now along with his attorney, Sadie Johns (ph). Thank you so much for being with us. Mr. Williams, tell me what happened. What were you doing and why were police interrupting you or stopping you? WILLIAMS: Well, basically, I just left for pretty much a family gathering, and was in a park which was Ashwood (ph) Park. And it was like around 10:15, somewhere around that time.
CHUNG: In the evening?
WILLIAMS: Right. And I was pretty much cleaning up, you know, just making sure everything was clean, throwing trash. I was just leaving -- exiting the park. When I left the park, I was approached by an officer unit, which is the officer's car.
CHUNG: An officer's...
WILLIAMS: Car. You know, basically a police car.
CHUNG: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And there was two officers in it. They pretty much flashed a light on me and asked me and another person that was walking out the park that they had a call or whatever, and could we come to the car and, you know, present ID or whatever. So, I went over, you know, me and the other guy went and presented ID. And they pretty much ran our ID. They patted us down or whatever. And I was basically telling them, you know, we were just cleaning up whatever and we're leaving now. They were like OK, it was pretty much nothing. They gave us our ID back after they ran our ID and then they let us go.
After that, I was pretty much going right back to my car, because my car was like -- I had to walk up the park to go past my car, then, you know, go to the police car. So, I'm going back to my car basically. When I go up to the car, as I get in the car, I'm just approached by like -- it's like six units pulling up. They're just flying up. And Inglewood police, you know, I recognized them as Inglewood police as far as the cars. They just started being, you know, real loud and, you know, pretty much being rude to me, like get out the car. Get out the car. Get out the car. And I'm like...
CHUNG: You're saying that happened unprovoked?
WILLIAMS: This is all that happened, yes. This is -- that's...
CHUNG: And what did they do?
WILLIAMS: They just pretty much had me get out the car. And the officer that pulled me over or that had me, you know, checked me out at first as far as my ID, one of him, he was still right there. So, I really didn't feel, you know, threatened at first. But I was kind of worried because they was approaching me with no loud sirens (ph) or whatever.
So, basically, they just ran up and told me to get out the car, get out the car. And they're flashing lights in my face. So, I got out the car. When I got out the car, I kind of got over their headlights and their flashlights, and I pretty much noticed it was a bunch of, you know, white -- could have been Latino or Hispanic officers, I'm not sure. But predominantly, I see, you know, the lighter skin (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CHUNG: All right. Now, police say that you were belligerent and uncooperative -- these are quotes -- and that you were under the influence of some type of drug or alcohol. True?
WILLIAMS: No. To make a long story short, they didn't even give me -- give me the chance to present, rather it would be any kind of Breathalyzer test or anything. It was just as soon as they got me out the car, they immediately started just pretty much just bombarding me, just beating me up, just pushing me -- started pushing me or whatever. And as soon as I recognized that type of attitude and that type of behavior from the police, I automatically told them to, look, hey, hey, hey, look, I ain't got no problem.
CHUNG: Did you fight back?
WILLIAMS: I did nothing. The first thing I did was them that the officer who just searched me and just ran my ID, he's right there. I said, look, go talk to him. Two of them had already starting approaching him. And I'm telling them, look, get at, you know...
CHUNG: Did they want to arrest you?
WILLIAMS: No. They didn't say nothing. They didn't say anything.
CHUNG: Well, they said that they had to utilize a carotid restraint hold on you in order to overcome your resistance.
WILLIAMS: They started -- first, what I just told you, they first started being rough with me, I automatically told them, put me in handcuffs and put me in the back of the car because I recognized that they were on -- they felt like they was on some, whether it was a vendetta or -- it seemed like they was acting like I was robbing a bank -- I just robbed a bank or whatever.
CHUNG: Now, did you recognize any of the officers who were engaged in what you described as abusive behavior?
WILLIAMS: No, I did not recognize. It was hard for me to recognize because, first off, they put me in handcuffs right away.
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: There is a bit of confusion here that as to whether or not you believed that you saw among that group of officers, officer Jeremy Morse. Did you or did you not?
WILLIAMS: I could not really say that at this time (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CHUNG: So you don't know?
WILLIAMS: I can't really say that I did at the time.
CHUNG: All right. All right. But the long and the short of it, you were unconscious in the hospital, and are you -- you're claiming that you did absolutely nothing to encourage police to either try and arrest you or handcuff you or restrain you?
WILLIAMS: Everything that I did was what I just told you, which was absolutely nothing to me and I'm pretty sure it's absolutely nothing to anybody else who hears it.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you so much. I'm sorry we did not get to you. We appreciate your coming though.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No problem.
CHUNG: And thank you. All right, appreciate it, Mr. Williams.
WILLIAMS: It's no problem.
CHUNG: When we come back, we'll take a hard look at the law and how it applies to the cases we've been talking about. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight we've hit several angles of this still developing story. We've seen the arrest of Mitchell Crooks. We've heard from the Inglewood police and from the lawyer of Jeremy Morse, and we've heard details from another person who claims he was a victim of police brutality in Inglewood.
It's all heading for court so we're heading to New York for someone who can help us straighten out all of this, our CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. Jeffrey, thank you for joining us.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Connie.
CHUNG: Jeffrey, I want to start with that radio show tape.
And here we have Mitchell Crooks goes on a radio program, says he fears for his life and fears going before the grand jury to testify, and a member of the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office calls in. Let's listen.
(BEGIN RADIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we have a chief deputy D.A. for Los Angeles County on the line here. I think he has something to add to this. Kurt Livesay, welcome to the "John and Ken Show."
LIVESAY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Curt, Mitchell's on the line here. I assume you're up to speed on what we're discussing.
LIVESAY: I think so. I haven't heard the entire conversation, but Mitchell, let me assure you that there's a grand jury subpoena for you, and I suggest that you honor it and you show up to the Criminal Courts Building that's downtown.
(END RADIO CLIP)
CHUNG: Jeffrey, was this a legitimate way to serve a subpoena, and did it sound threatening to you?
TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly a strange way to run a railroad, I mean, to be enforcing the law over talk radio.
Let's step back for a section, Connie, and look where this -- where this story is. A week ago, just about, a white cop slammed a black kid into a car outside Los Angeles, and today there's only one person in jail. Who's that? It's the guy who took the video.
Now, that's peculiar. You can sort of understand maybe each step along the way, but it would seem to me that maybe a little bit less sort of a macho act from the L.A. District Attorney's Office and little bit more, perhaps, gentle persuasion to simply get the tape. That's all they really need from Mr. Crooks.
He is not really an important witness except to get the tape. So instead we have this big confrontation, we have Crooks thrown in jail. We have a D.A. trying to enforce the law over the radio. It's peculiar.
CHUNG: Jeffrey, according to Crooks' friend, a guy named Dan, he says that that videotape is now in the hands of the prosecutors. So, they have what they want. It is the original tape.
TOOBIN: Well, that's -- and if so, that's a -- that's a good thing and that's what they wanted. But you have to remember, they also paid a price for this. This is a -- this event does not occur in a vacuum. The relationship between the black people of Los Angeles and the police of that area is a very fraught, long history.
And now we have a situation where, you know, there was -- the guy who took the tape was thrown in jail before anyone else in this case. It would seem to me perhaps a little bit of gentle persuasion -- you didn't even have to have a grand jury subpoena.
All you had to do was ask Crooks to hand over the tape, and perhaps that would have been the way to do it. Instead there was a major confrontation and that's -- the D.A. will pay a price for it, maybe not that big a price, but he will pay a price.
CHUNG: All right. The lawyer for Officer Morse says that the teenager grabbed his client in the crotch area, and my question to you is, does that appear to you as being a legitimate defense for slamming him, I mean punching him, at that point?
TOOBIN: You know, Connie, when we talked about this case last week, what I said to you was, "Boy, these things, they look simple at first, but then they tend to get pretty complicated."
Well, it's getting complicated, and now we have an explanation from Officer Morse's lawyer of why he did what he did. Is it true? Is it legitimate? I have no idea. I wasn't there. I'm -- all I saw was the videotape. But, you know, this is the beginning of the investigation. Just from looking at the tape, you can see there's several witnesses there. They'll all be asked for their version of facts. If, in fact, the young man did grab the officer in the crotch, presumably someone of the other people there saw it, or if the other people there didn't see it, well, that's bad news for Officer Morse. But...
CHUNG: Jeffrey...
TOOBIN: Sorry. Go ahead.
CHUNG: Just very quickly, yes or no, would Neilson Williams' testimony or a story be admissible? This is the man who also accuses Inglewood Police of abusive behavior.
TOOBIN: Absolutely not. He couldn't identify any of the officers involved. That story will have no relevance to any criminal trial that comes out of out this case.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you, Jeffrey Toobin.
TOOBIN: OK.
CHUNG: We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Larry King next. Good night. See you tomorrow.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
