Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Samantha Runnion Missing from California Home; Internet Cop Poses as Child to Trap Predators; Celebrity Reality Shows Multiply

Aired July 16, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.

Samantha Runnion is 3-foot-6, 40 pounds, and all of 5 years old. Tonight she's out there somewhere, and someone has got her.

ANNOUNCER: Another kidnapping. This time, a 5-year-old taken right in front of her home. Tonight: what happened, and her mother's desperate plea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN RUNNION, MOTHER OF SAMANTHA: We don't want vengeance, we just want our baby back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The man behind this tape is now the man behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I fear for my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tonight he talks to Connie from jail.

A secret life on the Web. How safe is the Internet for teens?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She went to chat rooms. She was talking to guys that were older than her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: For this 13-year-old honor student, not safe enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tina (ph) would find older people. She would look for them instead of them looking for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: The dangers of the Internet to children. We'll meet one man who makes it his business to protect your kids.

Get real.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OZZY OSBOURNE: Rock 'n' roll!

It's good to be the king.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Move over Ozzy, and make room for Liza, P Diddy and Anna Nicole Smith. They all want their own real TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA NICOLE SMITH: Hi, it's Anna Nicole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT.

Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening. It's now been just about 24 hours since a 5-year-old girl was dragged away from her playmate and abducted from what her family and neighbors thought was a safe community in Orange County, California.

What has happened to her in those 24 hours, we do not know. What her current condition is, we don't know.

CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is on the story tonight in Stanton, California with what we do know at this hour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a young -- a little girl kidnapped yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There, hopefully that will get some word out.

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Volunteers passed out flyers, investigators canvassed the neighborhood, and children played under their parents' watchful eye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is too close to home.

GUTIERREZ: The parents in this quiet Orange County community still in shock over the abduction of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm pretty devastated by it, and I'm very saddened that this is just so close to home. It could be any one of our children. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to believe that one of us could just be taken like this.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): This isn't the most visible, nor the most accessible townhome complex. It's surrounded by three walls, and there are only two ways to get in and out. Investigators say the girls were sitting there, on that wall, playing a board game when the abductor drove up.

MIKE CARONA, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF: He parked his car right in front of the little girls, came out and asked their assistance in finding his little puppy. He then grabbed Samantha, threw her in the front seat of the car and fled at a high rate of speed.

GUTIERREZ (voice-over): The only witness: 5-year-old Sarah Ahn, Samantha's friend.

SARAH AHN, WITNESSED ABDUCTION: She said, help, tell my grandma!

And I did.

GUTIERREZ: Sarah did get a good look at the suspect's face.

AHN: He got a mustache right here and black hair all around right there (ph).

GUTIERREZ: Based on Sarah's description, investigators came up with this composite sketch of the suspect: A Hispanic male between the ages of 25 and 40, driving a light green car with chrome wheels, possibly a Honda or Acura.

RICHARD GARCIA, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: All the border entry points along Mexico have the flyer. And they have it also in Spanish. And they're also making it in other languages as well.

GUTIERREZ: Samantha Runnion's grandmother was babysitting Monday evening while her parents were at work. Her mother Erin made an emotional appeal for her daughter's safe return.

RUNNION: Baby, I love you. You are such a good girl. You are so clever. Please ask your capturer to let you go. We love you.

She is my (UNINTELLIGIBLE) please let her go. She is such a sweet child.

GUTIERREZ: The kids who know Samantha say she's very popular and friendly. And in 10 days, she celebrates her sixth birthday.

Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Stanton, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: We're going to CNN's Charles Feldman in Los Angeles right now for an update on a new development in the search for Samantha Runnion -- Charles.

CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening Connie.

A law enforcement source has just told me minutes ago that law enforcement officials are talking to somebody at this very hour who I'm told possibly matches the description of the suspect in the abduction case of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion.

According to this source, the person is being talked to now. But it is not yet clear whether this, in fact, is the suspect in this case.

And, in fact, Connie, my source tells me that there is great concern that because of this, people may stop looking for Samantha Runnion, and they do not want that to happen. Not quite yet, at least until they're sure whether or not this person turns out to be the suspect, or it turns out to be a red herring.

What we do not know at this hour, Connie, is the whereabouts of Samantha Runnion. That is still very much a mystery -- Connie.

CHUNG: Charles, were your sources able to tell you exactly where this person is being questioned? I mean, is it in California, or is there a possibility that it's in Mexico?

FELDMAN: No I was told, Connie, that the person that is being talked to is here in California and, I was led to believe, not too far from the location where the abduction occurred.

But again, I emphasize, according to my source, that it is not, by all means, clear that this, in fact, is the suspect.

But they are talking to somebody at this very hour who they believe does match the description of the suspect in this case -- Connie.

CHUNG: All right, thank you Charles Feldman.

Joining us now from Stanton is Orange County Sheriff Michael Carona.

Sheriff Carona, thank you for being with us.

MICHAEL CARONA, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: Were you able to hear Charles Feldman's report just a moment ago?

CARONA: Yes ma'am, I could hear his comments.

CHUNG: Do you have any...

CARONA: I can tell you...

CHUNG: Do you have any information that would lead you to believe, in fact, that someone is being questioned at this moment?

CARONA: Well Connie, I can tell you that the investigation is very broad and there are a number of people that are being questioned. I cannot confirm what your source had laid out, that we have a particular suspect.

I will suggest, though, that his comment that we're concerned that people would stop looking for Samantha is an inaccurate one. We're going to use every resource we have to find that young lady, and to find the individual who kidnapped her.

CHUNG: Can you tell us exactly what you believe happened?

CARONA: Well, it was an impulsive crime; clearly one that was not well thought-out.

An individual came through this complex in Stanton, asked Samantha if he had -- or she had seen his dog. As soon as she bent down to describe the dog for him, he grabbed her, threw her in the car and took off.

And it's not a well thought-out crime. It's an impulsive crime. It's an individual who clearly is acting out his problems.

And I got to tell you right now, we're going to track him down, we're going to find him, and we're going to bring him to justice.

CHUNG: How do you know that it was an impulsive situation?

CARONA: Well, we have been working very closely with the FBI. They have brought out 30 agents with us. We're going through a series of investigative profiles right now. And based upon the pattern of what has taken place, we believe this is a high-risk, impulsive crime.

And the individual who was involved in it, we're asking the public to start looking for people who are changing their behaviors, who are doing things differently.

I can tell you that we're looking at not only people that Samantha knew, but people who were outside of her group of known friends and relatives, and using everything that we have available to us -- our local resources and our national resources. We're profiling this individual, and we're going to find him.

CHUNG: Has Samantha's mother been able to tell you if there is anyone that she knows that fits the description in the composite drawing?

CARONA: Connie, we have spoken with Samantha's mother and family members. They're giving us all the information they possibly can to help to locate Samantha. And I can only say that much, and let you know that it's part of an ongoing investigation. But they are being very cooperative.

CHUNG: All right, can you also tell me -- I know that Samantha's biological father does not live in the state -- does not live with her biological mother. The indications we were getting was that there is no reason to believe that he had picked her up. CARONA: That's correct. Her father does -- her biological father does not live in the State of California. We have had contact with him. We have investigators that are in contact with her father. And while this is part of the investigation, he is not local, and we do not believe he had any contact with her.

CHUNG: Sir, can you tell me if there have been any kidnappings in this neighborhood recently?

CARONA: No, this is a very low-crime city to start with. And second, this particular location is a very low-crime complex. And so there have been not only no kidnappings, but there have been no reported crimes in this area.

CHUNG: What is so extraordinary is the little girl who was the witness, only 5 years old, but apparently she was able to describe what this man looked like.

Did one of your investigators carefully go through it with her?

CARONA: Yes. And I have to tell you, for a 5-year-old, she's an incredible witness. She's been very helpful in describing not only the incident, but she's also been able to describe the color of the vehicle. She's very good with letters, and was able to give us a clue that there was an "H" on the back of the vehicle -- probably a Honda or an Acura.

And so we've put that out. And we're engaging the public and the media to help us in identifying the suspect or the suspect vehicle.

CHUNG: All right. Well Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us. Bless her heart, that little girl, and our thoughts are with the family.

Thank you so much for being with us.

CARONA: Thank you very much for your help.

CHUNG: A few days ago, activists were demanding the arrest of Inglewood, California police officer Jeremy Morse. Tonight, they have a new cause: Mitchell Crooks. They want the man who videotaped Morse hitting 16-year-old Donovan Jackson released from jail and even grant him clemency for the outstanding charges against him. At his arraignment today, he pleaded not guilty to violating probation. The concern about Crooks was sparked after Crooks was arrested last week on tape screaming for help.

He joins me now from Placer County jail along with his attorneys, Dean Masserman and Ralph Harrison. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.

Mitchell, tell me, you have not been able to describe for anyone exactly what happened to you when you were arrested. Did those plain- clothes investigators identify who they were when they arrested you outside the CNN building? MITCHELL CROOKS, AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHER: No, they didn't. They didn't tell me I was under arrest or anything. They just said that I should come with them. I also want to point out that I was fairly embarrassed about seeing that on TV. I guess that's how I feel or the reaction that I have when I'm scared for my life.

CHUNG: Why were you scared for your life?

CROOKS: I mean, it's kind of embarrassing, though.

CHUNG: I understand what you're saying because...

CROOKS: Because I didn't know who those guys were.

CHUNG: ... you were yelling help. Oh, I see.

CROOKS: Yes.

CHUNG: I understand what you're saying. However, did you resist?

CROOKS: No, I didn't. I didn't know who they were. I didn't know why they were there. I didn't understand why I was being taken into custody or if, you know, who they were. They were just plain- clothes people. They didn't identify themselves at all.

CHUNG: So, you were yelling help...

CROOKS: I still don't know who they were.

CHUNG: All right. You were yelling help...

CROOKS: Yes, because I wanted to speak to an attorney. At that point, I felt like, you know, I was all alone in the world and there was nobody there. And, I mean, I just feared for my life. I had no idea what was going on. I just wanted to speak to somebody about the situation. I wanted to work it out with everybody so that there was a good outcome. I don't understand why it had to go the way that it did.

CHUNG: Were you roughed up?

CROOKS: Yes, I was.

CHUNG: Exactly...

CROOKS: I have bruises in several spots.

CHUNG: What were your injuries?

CROOKS: I have a bruise on my -- on my arm from the district attorney's office. It's kind of cleared up now. It hurt for a few days and my arm was really stiff. My hip is hurting and my shoulder was hurting for a little while. I got bruises. I was in handcuffs for 22 hours. They had locked me outside of the -- outside of the cell and my arm was in there. I couldn't sit down, I couldn't stand up and have any slack on it at all. They threw the camera back in my face the whole time, you know? It was just cruel and unusual punishment to me.

CHUNG: Your attorneys said that you were rolled out on a gurney and you were tethered to the gurney to get X-rays. Was that necessary? Did you tell them, I'm not going to do anything, I'm not going to run away or were you resisting what they had asked you to do?

CROOKS: No. I tried to cooperate with them entirely. I wanted to cooperate with them. From -- since the first time that I talked to the district attorney's office, I told them I had no problem in speaking with him and talking to the grand jury and giving them the tape. I just wanted to speak to an attorney beforehand. And he didn't allow me to do that.

So, and they had me strapped to the gurney and they brought me in. I had a little bit of a panic attack. I was -- I mean, I was pretty scared for my life. I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know whose custody I was in. I didn't know what was going on. And I was really scared because I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't resist, though.

CHUNG: Was it necessary, really, for you to be arrested? Because if you worked this out with the D.A. that you were going to come in, provide the tape, why would they come and arrest you?

RALPH HARRISON, CROOKS' ATTORNEY: Well, we are not going to let him answer any questions that may involve the underlying charges that are pending against him now.

CHUNG: I understand. But I'm not talking about the outstanding warrants against him. I'm simply saying do you believe, Mitchell, that you were arrested out of the revenge or retribution as opposed to on these outstanding warrants?

CROOKS: Yes. I believe it was -- I believe it was directly connected, yes.

CHUNG: The community of Inglewood has really gathered around you. Congresswoman Maxine Waters says that she is trying to gather together $10,000 for your legal defense. Community groups have already said that they've gathered $3,000 and they also want to welcome you there when you do eventually get out of jail. What do you think of all of that?

CROOKS: I think it's wonderful. I think it's a good point, you know, that it shows that, you know, united the people still stand, you know? I think it's great. It feels good. It's one of the main things getting me by at this point. I just -- I want to thank them.

CHUNG: Do you wish that you never picked up your video camera and took that videotape?

CROOKS: Not at all. I'm glad I did it. I didn't hesitate. I didn't think about anything at all. I just knew that I was trying to help out a fellow human being. That's all. I would do it again. I'll do it 10 more times.

CHUNG: And one other question...

CROOKS: I hope somebody would do it for me.

CHUNG: All right. Well, you know, if you look at this situation, a teenager was accused of resisting arrest, he is -- he is out, not in prison or not in jail. And a police officer who people believe may very well have beaten this 16-year-old or hit him is not in jail and you are. Does something seem wrong with that picture to you?

CROOKS: It's hard. You know, he's sitting there on his couch right now watching me in County Orange, you know? I just -- I mean, it doesn't seem right. It just doesn't seem right at all. I mean, totally unfair.

CHUNG: All right. One final...

CROOKS: So, I mean...

CHUNG: One final question to your attorney, Dean Masserman. Dean, are you going to -- are you and your partner going to file charges against the L.A. County DA for the way your client was handled?

DEAN MASSERMAN, CROOKS' ATTORNEY: Well, it certainly is something we are going to investigate, Connie. There has been claims by our client that he was manhandled, that he was not treated fairly, that they used force against him, that he was not resisting. He's got injuries that were photographed by the Placer County sheriffs when he got up here because they didn't want to get blamed for the injuries that they observed on his body.

And if those injuries are significant enough for them to photograph so they don't get blamed, then they obviously were significant enough for us to investigate.

If, at the time that we complete our investigation, we determine that a civil lawsuit should be filed in his behalf, we will certainly do that.

CHUNG: All right. Thank you so much, Dean Masserman, Ralph Harrison and Mitchell Crooks.

Thanks for being with us.

We have another development to report in the search for kidnapped 5-year-old Samantha Runnion. We go again to CNN's Charles Feldman, who's in Los Angeles tracking the investigation -- Charles.

FELDMAN: Connie, a source, law enforcement source has just told me that the body of a small child has been found in Riverside County here in southern California not too far from the location where Samantha Runnion was abducted but -- and this is terribly important in this kind of story and under these circumstances to underline, as I'm sure you understand, Connie -- they do not know yet whether this, in fact, is Samantha Runnion.

Now of course, the body of any child being found would be an astonishing and terribly sad development. So if it turns out it's another child, well, that, in and of itself, would be horrible and horrendous story to report, because that means that somewhere else, there might be a parent or parents missing a child and that child came to some horrible end.

So, again, I emphasize -- and I'm taking great care in this to say that -- that the source of them talking to says that it is not yet clear that the body of the young child -- in fact, we don't even know whether it's a female or male or the age or description, only that it's being described to me as a small child.

We do not know, they do not know yet whether this is, in fact, Samantha Runnion. But I'm told that law enforcement officials are converging on that scene to recover the body and try to make some positive identification.

Now, Connie, earlier in the broadcast, I mentioned that a source told me that there was a person possibly resembling the suspect being questioned. I'm now told that that person, it's about 50/50 that this person may have anything to do with the abduction of Samantha Runnion, 50/50 -- Connie.

CHUNG: Thank you, Charles Feldman. There are, according to the FBI, every 37 seconds a reported child missing.

We will be right back.

ANNOUNCER: Still to come, she was an honor student and cheerleader. But on the Web, she led a secret life that cost her her life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told me she wanted to get some (UNINTELLIGIBLE) stuff like that, because it makes her in control.

ANNOUNCER: When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: We'll continue, but, first, we go to Aaron Brown in New York for a look at tonight's developing stories "To the Minute" -- Aaron.

(INTERRUPTED FOR NEWS ALERT)

Aaron, I'll be watching. Thank you.

AARON BROWN, HOST, "NEWSNIGHT": Thank you.

CHUNG: Still ahead, who will be the next big reality star? Everyone seems to be getting his own version of the "Osbournes" these days. We'll tell you who's next. Don't touch that remote. ANNOUNCER: Next, no patrol car, no gun. This cop uses a mouse and a modem, patrolling the Web to protect your kids.

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: One reason the Internet can be so frightening to me and many other parents is that it allows our kids full access to pretty much the entire world. But it can also allow the world access to our kids. And as CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports, it can allow our kids to turn unhealthy fantasies into deadly reality.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirteen-year- old Christina Long, the pretty girl with a perpetual smile. In her short life, though, there was sadness. Her parents had a nasty divorce, her mother abandoned her and Chrissy moved in with her aunt. But she had a hard time finding friends. She was too different, sometimes even embarrassing to the other kids.

THAMARIS SILVA, CHRISTINA'S BEST FRIEND: She would flash them and lift up her shirt and her bra and then let them touch it.

HINOJOSA: And then, Chrissy got a computer, and it seems the friends she couldn't make, she was able to meet online.

SILVA: She went to chatrooms. She was talking to guys that were older than her.

HINOJOSA: And on the other end of the Internet were men with their own needs, like 24-year-old Saul Dos Reis, a newlywed whose wife was dying of cancer.

SILVIANI DOS REIS ARRUDA, SAUL'S MOTHER: It was a very hard time for him, for his wife, for us, but he never talk about anything.

HINOJOSA: Saul, a Brazilian immigrant, worked six days a week at his father's restaurant. But online, he lived out his fantasy and became HOTES300, the guy with the Lexus. Chrissy was in Catholic school and on the honor roll, co-captain of her cheerleading squad. But her Internet log-in was sxyme4utosee and LongToohot4u.

SILVA: Christina would find older people. She would look for people.

HINOJOSA: Her friend worried when Chrissy began talking about sexual experimentation.

SILVA: She told me that she wanted to get some handcuffs and some whips and stuff like that because it makes her in control.

HINOJOSA (on camera): In control of who?

SILVA: Of whoever. HINOJOSA (voice-over): Chrissy began stepping out to meet men, police said. On Friday night, May 17, she didn't come home and police began contacting her online buddies until Saul emerged. Police said he acknowledged meeting her at the Danbury Fair Mall.

(on camera): According to authorities, after Saul Dos Reis had sex with Christina in his car and then killed her, he drove an hour from Danbury here to Greenwich and put her body here in this creek.

(voice-over): Saul said, according to police, that he strangled Chrissy with his hands as they were engaged in sexual intercourse, suggesting that they might have been practicing erotic asphyxiation.

CAPT. ARTHUR SULLO, DANBURY POLICE: She didn't have statutory authority to consent to any type of sexual activity with an adult.

HINOJOSA: Even so, on Christina's computer, police found messages between her and Saul indicating they engaged in sex on a previous occasion and that pictures of a sexual nature may have been taken. "The truth is, I'm a playa," she said in one e-mail to Saul. "I've had rough sex, too," she tells Saul in another mail. "I like it rough."

"I don't know how to say this, Saul tells her in an e-mail, "but would you be willing to, like, give me some lessons or kind of like help me get good at it?"

JIM LENIHAN, SAUL'S ATTORNEY: This case is not about a pedophile looking for a young child on the Internet to abuse. This is about two people who intentionally misrepresented who they were, and, as most people do on the Internet, each believing they were meeting someone else. You can look at the nature of the charges in both the state and the federal case and ask yourself the question, you know, if that is what this is about, why are the charges what they are?

HINOJOSA: Saul was charged with manslaughter rather than the greater charge of murder. He also faces federal charges of using the Internet to lure children for sex. And, police say, the focus on the victim's action is wrongheaded.

SULLO: It's not unusual in this type of a case or in many other cases to put the victim on trial.

HINOJOSA: Christina's family says whatever role she played, it was Saul who was supposed to be the responsible adult.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is thinking like a child and she is thinking -- she is not reasoning like an adult because she is not an adult. He is the one who should have been -- he is the adult and he should have behaved like the adult.

HINOJOSA: And whether this child wanted to appear older or more experienced, she was only 13, an angel to the aunt raising her, perhaps an angel adrift and now gone.

Maria Hinojosa, CNN, Danbury, Connecticut. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: Joining me now are the attorneys for Saul Dos Reis, Peter Tilem and James Lenihan. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.

What was he doing on the Internet when he first met Christina?

PETER TILEM, SAUL'S ATTORNEY: Saul was a man who didn't have a lot of time to himself. But the one love he had was cars, and he frequented the Internet in order to look at cars, buy pieces, parts for his car. That was one of his -- probably his only joy.

CHUNG: Jim, when, in fact, he did finally meet with her, he did have sex with her, did he know that she was 13?

LENIHAN: We don't believe that he did. We believe that Christina was very, very careful in portraying the image of a young woman who was of the age and ability to consent to endeavors of men. And that doesn't just come from our own beliefs. It's based upon documentation that we've actually received from the government.

CHUNG: Well, according to police, they discovered an e-mail in which she says that she was 14.

LENIHAN: That is what they would like you to believe. However, that is not really what the content of the e-mail was. If that is the e-mail that they are relying on to prosecute him as knowing whether or not she was of age to consent, then we believe their reliance is misplaced.

CHUNG: Peter, what does your client admit to? Does he admit that, in fact, what he did caused her death?

TILEM: Well, I can't talk about what our client has told us. But...

CHUNG: In terms of your case, what does your client admit to?

TILEM: The evidence is that Saul was someone who was looking for an adult relationship online. He thought he found it in Christina. Christina was very good at pulling off that ruse and we know that this is something she did often. Our client admits that, you know, he believed that he was getting involved with an adult relationship with an adult.

CHUNG: But that doesn't excuse what happened to her.

LENIHAN: It doesn't excuse what happened to her, but the truth of the matter is is that it's our belief that Saul was not engaged in any illegal activity. Rather, this was two people who were engaged what they believed to be...

CHUNG: So, what you're addressing is the relationship here, not dealing with the issue of the fact that she's dead.

LENIHAN: Well, the fact that she's dead... CHUNG: And he is charged with manslaughter.

LENIHAN: He's charged with manslaughter, which we believe is indicative of the fact that the government, at the very best, knows that this may have been an accident.

TILEM: Connie, we don't have the evidence at this point. The government does. We have some and we've gotten drips and drabs. But the people who have the evidence decided that this wasn't murder. And we don't know why that is.

CHUNG: All right. Gentlemen, I need to go, and I thank you so much for being with us.

When we come back, we'll talk to a cop who tries to catch Internet predators by going online undercover.

But first tonight, "Off The Radar," one of the most notorious early cases of an Internet liaison that turned out to be something far different than it first seemed.

ANNOUNCER: The case of Oliver Jovanovic showed that while any romantic liaison has dangerous possibilities, meeting over the Internet can add some provocative twists. Jovanovic was a Columbia grad student in 1996 when he met a Venard (ph) undergrad online. They agreed to meet in person and went to his apartment.

What happened next is unclear. But prosecutors said that she spent 20 hours as Jovanovic's prisoner. They said he tied her up, tortured her and sexually assaulted her. The case gripped a nation still trying to navigate the gap between Internet hysteria and reality. Prosecutors compared Jovanovic to Jeffrey Dahmer and sent him to prison for 15 years to life in a cell right next to "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz.

But less than two years later, he was freed and this year, received honors from Columbia University. How? The answer when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: How did Oliver Jovanovic get out of prison after serving less than two years for kidnapping and sexual assault of a woman he met online?

An appeals court found that the jury should have heard about the woman's e-mails in which she wrote of past sado-masochistic exploits. The court ordered a retrial, but prosecutors dropped the charges when the woman declined to testify.

Jovanovic got his Phd.D. from Columbia with honors in May. He is currently shopping movie and publishing rights to his story. Whether he's the villain or the victim was never established in court.

CHUNG: If you've tried online dating or been on either end of a more sinister online liaison, you've probably learned that people are not always exactly what they seem to be online.

Case in point, I'd like to introduce to you to Eric Szatkowski. He is a 13-year-old girl looking for good times with an older guy, but if you think he looks more like an officer of the Wisconsin Department of Justice, you're ahead of the game. Eric Szatkowski, thank you for being with us.

ERIC SZATKOWSKI, WISCONSIN DEPT. OF JUSTICE: Thanks for inviting me.

CHUNG: We are going to explain exactly that in a moment, but you just listened to that report that we had and the interview I had with these two lawyers. Do you believe that this is an aberration, that a victim is accused of enticing an adult into a relationship, which is essentially what they were trying to say.

SZATKOWSKI: Unfortunately I have worked a couple of cases where a child, sixth, seventh, or an eighth grader actually did become very aggressive after meeting a man on the Internet. They usually never initiate the meeting. It's usually the predator that starts the conversation, but, unfortunately, many children just act out in inappropriate manner, and those types of relationships do happen.

CHUNG: And you're talking about intentionally? These kids are doing it knowingly, intentionally?

SZATKOWSKI: Yes, without a parent's or a guardian's knowledge. Many times kids will get online and they will speak as adults. I've reviewed many instant message and chat conversations, first being told that this was the work of a seventh or eighth grader or a 14 or 15- year-old.

And until I actually met the child and interviewed him or her, I never would have believed it came from a child.

CHUNG: Now, you actually posed as a 13-year-old girl or a 14- year-old boy on the Internet.

SZATKOWSKI: Yes.

CHUNG: You're communicating with people, and you have trapped, not entrapped, but trapped certain individuals. There was a case in which a Catholic school educator was found -- by you discovered.

SZATKOWSKI: Yes. Yes.

CHUNG: Tell us about that.

SZATKOWSKI: That's correct. I was working on our undercover computer in the Milwaukee office, and I was in a chat room, one of many chat rooms that agents go into posing as children, and this person approached me and within about two-and-a-half hours had arranged a meeting for sex, and he showed up at the meeting and I was very shocked when the guy got out of the van.

He was someone that actually belonged to my church. And it was -- it was very shocking. But I think it just goes to show how insidious this problem is, that the people that you least expect are involved in this type of activity oftentimes are.

CHUNG: You have basically made it your life's work, the concentration that you have on this particular issue. I have to believe that your wife and your children, you know -- I think it's strange that you're sitting on -- at the computer at night pretending to be a child in this sort of sordid world, and you do the same on weekends.

SZATKOWSKI: Right. I do have a passion for protecting children, and when you think about it, children really are the most innocent people that we have in this society, and I think it's incumbent upon law enforcement to proactively investigate these types of cases, because if we can prevent just one child from being assaulted, I think we've done an important job.

CHUNG: All right. Thank you so much for being with us.

SZATKOWSKI: You're welcome.

CHUNG: Eric Szatkowski.

When we come back, what you haven't gotten -- what, you haven't gotten your own reality show yet? What are you waiting for? Everyone else seems to be getting one, so we will show you right after this short break.

ANNOUNCER: Still ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you all. I love you more than life itself. You know (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Red hot celebrity, real TV. Do we really care about what Anna Nicole Smith and Liza are doing at home? Keeping it real. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: When a TV show succeeds because it's new and original, smart, highly paid TV executives do what they're paid to do, they copy it.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ooh!

CHUNG: Ouch! Except the originality, of course. So after MTV's metal verite show "The Osbournes" took off, the semi-celebrity, pseudo-reality bandwagon got mighty full. And who better than CNN's own Anderson Cooper, who hosted his own semi-reality show, "The Mole" to tell us what Ozzy hath wrought.

Anderson, Anna Nicole Smith? COOPER: It's true. Anna Nicole Smith and Liza Minnelli...

CHUNG: Liza Minnelli?

COOPER: It's true.

Now, first, I should say in full disclosure, I did host a reality show before when I worked for ABC News. I did a show for ABC. And I'm kind of a reality show addict. But what is interesting about these new sort of celebrity reality shows is that they basically changed the genre. It used to be real people in surreal situations. It's now surreal people in real situations.

Point No. 1 person is Liza Minnelli. VH1 is negotiating with Liza and her new promoter husband David Gest. Now when I first heard about this, I thought, great, who doesn't want to watch a show that could be filled with booze, Broadway and Botox. I mean, God knows Liza and David are certainly and odd enough couple. We are not talking Michael Jackson and Bubbles odd, but I'm sure they have their moments.

But the big question on a show like this is access. Will this couple let us see their real lives? Will we see Liza without makeup? How about her husband? Do we want to? The only problem I have about this show is do we have to see these two smooch so much? They're kissing everywhere these days. I can handle "Fear Factor." I can even stomach reruns of Bob Saget and the Olson twins. But dear God, I have limits! Please, VH1, at least put some kind of warning before it's going to happen so we can avert our eyes. Connie, if not for us, at least for the sake of our children.

CHUNG: All right. Anna Nicole Smith.

COOPER: Anna Nicole Smith. Now, I love Anna Nicole Smith as I'm sure you do too.

CHUNG: Do you? How come?

COOPER: You got to mark down the date, August 4, "The Anna Nicole Smith Show" starts on E! network. It's going to be great. To paraphrase Churchill, Anna Nicole Smith is a riddle wrapped in a Pringle inside a Hot Pocket. She's like the Madonna of mobile homes. And I know this because I have a lot of relatives who live in mobile homes. So, I don't want letters.

She gives hope to big-handed women everywhere that if you jiggle in a strip bar long enough and manually manipulate the right man, you too will one day be able to upgrade to a double wide.

Now, has anyone who has ever stood in a supermarket checkout line knows...

CHUNG: You can't laugh at your own jokes.

COOPER: I know. What can I do? I'm the only one laughing.

CHUNG: No, I am.

COOPER: All right. Check out Anna Nicole. And, yes, I think I can call her Anna Nicole now. She met a 90-something billionaire in a strip club. And who says that men are hard to find, huh? Sure, they may be hard of hearing and have glaucoma, but they're out there. Now I don't know if it was the twinkle in his eye or the size of his oxygen tank, but Cupid's arrow found its mark. Unfortunately, her husband soon passed away and the ensuing struggle over his estate has kept Anna Nicole ever since. She has now been awarded $88 million. And in my opinion, she has earned it. That girl worked hard for the money.

Now, I think the show is going to be big. We are not talking Osbourne big, but like plus-size big. Now, I was in Afghanistan, I saw her on "LARRY KING" and that was great television. I don't know if you saw it, Connie, it was amazing...

CHUNG: I missed it. I'm sorry.

COOPER: Very good. I watched it with a roomful of Afghan men. And I got to tell you, they were transfixed. I swear, this is true...

CHUNG: You did not.

COOPER: I swear to God. All the fixtures...

CHUNG: You have to tell the truth.

COOPER: I did. I was watching it in a room full of Afghan men. These guys had never seen anything like her. They were stunned. And Kabul audiences are not easy. It's not like the Burt Reynolds dinner theater. It got me thinking, if her show doesn't work out, Anna Nicole could offer her services to the U.S. military.

Now, hear me out on this, Connie.

CHUNG: All right.

COOPER: She could be a low-cost, easy to deploy weapon system. It's true. I'm told she only needs like fuel -- the only fuel she needs is like cheese doodles and Pop-Tarts. Deploy her in the field, she can stun battalions of Taliban. Of course, if she were sent to Afghanistan, she probably wouldn't make it far off the U.S. base. But hey, the morale boost to U.S. troops alone could help the war effort. Just an idea.

CHUNG: Couldn't agree with you more. You do not have relatives who live in houses...

COOPER: I absolutely do.

CHUNG: You do not.

COOPER: In Mississippi, I do. I have lots of them. The whole Cooper side of the family lives in Mississippi. And most of them don't live in trailer parks, but some of them do, and they are mighty fine.

CHUNG: OK. All right. I'm so glad that you came tonight. I really am. You do have more?

COOPER: I could go on, if you like.

CHUNG: All right. Go ahead. What else do you -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE), what?

COOPER: Well, the great thing is, yes, there are other stars who are planning reality shows. It's like...

CHUNG: Sorry.

COOPER: No, please.

CHUNG: I was ready to dismiss you.

COOPER: About a half dozen -- oh, this goes on and on. There are about a half-dozen copycat shows being pitched. Down and out celebrities haven't been this excited since Whoopi Goldberg brought back "Hollywood Squares," and that is saying a lot.

Cybill Shepherd reportedly wants a show. So does Courtney Love and Kato Kaelin.

CHUNG: No.

COOPER: Yes. VH1 negotiated with Tommy Lee, but it didn't work out, which is probably a good thing because I'm not sure how much more of Tommy Lee we need to see. I think anyone with an Internet hook-up or VCR has seen more than enough.

But again, for these types of programs to work, the subjects have to be honest. And among a lot of celebrities, honesty is kind of a dirty word. What made "The Osbournes" such a refreshing show, in my opinion, is that we saw the family, dysfunction and all. Ozzy came off looking like a burned out, brain-fried aging rocker, which essentially he is. Puff Daddy, or P. Diddy, or Piddy, as I like to call him, has an MTV show in development. But I don't think you're going to see him running red lights in Lincoln Navigator, allegedly, or assaulting a record producer with a champagne bottle, allegedly. By all accounts, the program will simply show pity as he searches for a new act. And believe me, with slumping record sales and Martha on the run, this guy needs a new act.

Now, there are a couple of -- I'm almost done, Connie -- there are a couple of people I would love...

CHUNG: I am not bored.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: No, I saw you looking around.

CHUNG: I wasn't yawning. COOPER: There are a couple of shows I'd love to see people -- I'd love to see a Tammy Faye Baker show. Did you know she has her eyeliner tattooed on? That is true.

CHUNG: No, no. That's not true.

COOPER: No, no, she said that in the documentary about her.

CHUNG: Oh, OK.

COOPER: She said it's true. Anyway, a Tammy Faye show would be filled with goodies like that. I also want to see the real Richard Simmons. What's behind the smile and leg warmers? I sense a sadness. But I think I say this for all of America when I say the show I really want to see is at home with Connie and Maury. How about it, Connie? Any chance?

CHUNG: No way, not going to do it. You cannot make me do that.

COOPER: America is weeping right now.

CHUNG: Anderson, thank you so much. You are done now?

COOPER: I am done, yes.

CHUNG: Thank you. OK, will you come back?

COOPER: Maybe, if you'll have me.

CHUNG: Oh, I don't think so.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Tomorrow, Martina Navratilova, what did she really say about the U.S. after September 11? Did you hear about it? You have to watch. To get a preview of each day's program, sign up for our daily e-mail at cnn.com/connie.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE," Robert Wagner. Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night. We'll see you tomorrow.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com