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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
Rescuers Continue Efforts to Save Trapped Miners; Missouri Kidnapping Victim Found Dead; Former Avila Attorney Faces Threats
Aired July 26, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, buried alive. Could they have survived?
ANNOUNCER: Cold, wet and very, very dark. Nine men trapped for two days in a collapsed mine flooded with frigid water nearly 250 feet underground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MARK SCHWEIKER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We're doing everything that's humanly and intellectually possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight the setbacks, the hopes and the prayers. What is it like in a coal mine hundreds of feet below ground in the claustrophobic world of total darkness? Risky business.
Another senseless kidnapping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want my baby. I just want my baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The ordeal ends tragically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found what appears to be the body of Casey Williamson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The police have a suspect in custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've arrested Johnny Johnson, a local transient.
(END VIDEO CLIP) And the nation asks why.
Did this one have to happen? Alejandro Avila, the man accused of killing Samantha Runnion, walked free from a previous molestation rap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN RUNNION, MOTHER OF SAMANTHA RUNNION: I blame every juror who let him go, every juror who sat on that trial and believed this man over those little girls, I will never understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight the defense attorney who won Avila's acquittal now says he's a target.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN broadcast center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. In Somerset, Pennsylvania today, things did not go as planned. The setbacks are especially painful because every minute could prove to be a matter of life or death for the nine miners who are trapped by an underground flood Wednesday night.
There has been no sign of life from them today, raising fears that the prolonged exposure to chilly waters could claim the lives of the miners. CNN's Jeff Flock is on the story in Somerset, Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There it is, the rig drilling the escape hole for the nine veteran miners, silent.
SCHWEIKER: Right early four-hour run, and we're stopped.
FLOCK: Admits Pennsylvania Governor Mark Schweiker first thing Friday morning, the bit broke off overnight after they got down about 100 feet. Drilling crews spend most of the day with giant wrenches and other equipment trying to fish it up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't do anything else until you pull that drill bit out.
SCHWEIKER: We're going to send equipment down that will kind of grab ahold of it. And you got to kind of screw it. And that -- you tighten it up and you bring it up. But it's 50/50.
FLOCK: Beneath a warm rain family members watch the frantic efforts. The rest holed up in this fire station nearby.
SCHWEIKER: As you can usually imagine, in a state of high anxiety.
FLOCK: It gets worse. Just after noon, 24 hours since the rescuers last heard tapping from the miners, word comes from that they got the drill bit free. Then they changed their story.
DAVID HESS, PRES. PA. DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION: So the drill bit is not yet out of the hole?
FLOCK: Three hours later, it finally is.
HESS: We just got positive confirmation a few minutes ago that the drill bit for rescue shaft No. 1 is in fact out of the hole.
FLOCK: In the meantime they started a second shaft, and now they'll drill both of them, setting up a race to the bottom. How long can the miners last?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's been cases where people have been in a mine for a week before being rescued.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLOCK: And they certainly hope it doesn't last that long. But I can tell you, in terms of the very latest, Connie, on hole No. 2 now, just so we keep them straight, hole No. 2, they have resumed drilling as we speak. They are about 40 or 45 feet down on that one. Hole No. 1, they've gotten that bit out, as we've said. They're just about to start. In fact, the governor will be here in a moment.
Perhaps he can give you the latest update. They may be starting that even as we speak right now. So, as good a news as perhaps it can be -- Connie.
CHUNG: Jeff, are there -- is there any oxygen being pumped down to the men, and can you tell us what the water level is expected to be down there? Do they have any idea?
FLOCK: Well, we have some idea. We can tell you, yes, indeed, they're pumping air down in there for a couple of reasons. One, it's fresh air, something for them to breathe, as well as, they hope, maintaining that bubble. And of course, the size of that bubble is in part the answer to your question about whether there's water there.
We've been pumping water out. How much they're in? Are they in water right now? We really don't really know. Perhaps the water level has sunk. Perhaps the air bubble has expanded and they're on dry ground. But at this point we don't know.
CHUNG: Go over with us again exactly where the men are.
FLOCK: They are, we believe, in an area perhaps four feet tall -- four feet high. That's because the coal seam is four feet high. They think it extends maybe 18 feet or so across. Now, how much of that has got water and how much of that has got air -- again, that we're not 100 percent sure.
We know it's at the very least damp. There was a heck of a lot of water that went through there, if in fact it's not still there, and that's water that we believe, and temperature of the ground that we believe are in the neighborhood of 50 to 55 degrees. That's another reason they're pumping heated air down into that shaft.
CHUNG: Jeff Flock, thank you so much. I know that you'll be on top of this story as it continues to unfold. And we will certainly get back to you if there are any late developments. Thank you, Jeff Flock.
Now through much of this ordeal, Pennsylvania's governor has been on the scene and funneling good news and bad both to the families of the miners and to the world outside Somerset.
Governor Mark Schweiker joins us now with the latest information on the rescue efforts. Thank you, Governor, for being with us. Let's start right away...
SCHWEIKER: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Let's start with the question of when was the last time rescuers heard from the miners? That tapping?
SCHWEIKER: The tapping yesterday, about -- yesterday about noon. And through what you could call miner's code, and just let us know that they were able to do that, and they were down below about 300 feet.
CHUNG: It must be so difficult for the families to remain optimistic. What do you tell the families? What have you told them?
SCHWEIKER: Well, keep in -- I think I can't answer that question without first describing mining families. These folks are rugged people, been involved in the business a long time. They're tough, they're hearty, they're determined, they're hopeful.
And as I would mention just an hour ago, very prayerful, too. It makes them tough people. So they can endure. They certainly desire straight talk. So I think it helps when I walk in there and give them the low down on where we stand on things and use straight talk.
And, yes, they remain hopeful. And -- but the drilling that's now underway in rescue shaft two and soon to begin in rescue shaft one, they see that as encouraging.
CHUNG: You're so right, Sir. the -- it's been said that miners and miners' families are a special breed of people. And they go from generation to generation. Is there anything your administration can do for the families?
SCHWEIKER: Well, we've offered and continue to provide an awful lot of help. You know, the extended families are interested in coming on into Somerset. My folks have helped them make air travel arrangements to hotel arrangements and to -- as well as the fact that we've made arrangements for pastoral counseling and that kind of thing.
So we're willing to do what it takes to make this painfully slow task of completing successfully the drilling as well as, you know, the difficulties that they face emotionally as we go through this saga, as easy as we can make it.
Perhaps -- it's a poor choice of words to say it's going to be easy. It's not been easy, it's been painfully slow, but we're helping in every way we can, as well as, and this is important to project and to explain -- we have got over $5 million of very sophisticated, high impact equipment down there.
So they see for themselves when they drive by and you can see it from a road, that we're doing everything we can mechanically and technologically to bring about the rescue as well as the other supports that I mentioned a moment ago.
CHUNG: Governor, we've been told that the reason why these men's lives are in jeopardy is because of faulty maps. Is there going to be an investigation?
SCHWEIKER: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, it's not something that we can pursue real actively right now, because our foremost responsibility, what motivates us greatly, is to bring up nine of our guys who are down below in this cavern and ideally in this life-saving bubble that was described a moment ago.
But I assure you, as governor it's my job to represent 12 million people and certainly mining families across Pennsylvania and get to the bottom of it. Now one thing I should mention as a caveat is this, that this was a mine, they were adjacent to a mine and broke through to an inactive mine where mining was ceased well over 40 years ago, back in the mid-'50s, and probably the maps that were created as they wrapped up their work there were such that they weren't dependable.
And unfortunately, when the step was taken of beginning the mining, they got perilously close and ultimately broke through to that inactive mine, and in rushed the water.
So, you know, it's put them in great danger, as the world now knows; and we're doing all we can to bring them up.
But sometime soon we will begin the investigation and find out just what transpired there.
But they're old maps, and obviously their dependability is not good.
CHUNG: Sir, I think if I were a member of one of those families, just in these last 10 seconds we have left, I wouldn't want to hear that it's going to happen, regarding these maps.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
SCHWEIKER: We're -- it sounds like your point is the point I'm trying to make, that we're going to get to the bottom of it, and we want to know why those maps were as faulty as they appear to be.
CHUNG: All right, thank you so much, Governor Schweiker; appreciate it. Now, from the beginning, almost 48 hours ago, David Hess has been one of the governor's top men in the rescue effort. As secretary of the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, he's done much of the briefing, providing us updates on the progress and setbacks in the fight to reach the trapped miners.
David Hess joins us now from Somerset.
Mr. Hess, thank you so much for being with us.
HESS: Thank you.
CHUNG: To follow up with what I was talking to Governor Schweiker about, the whole question of these faulty maps, the fact there is an abandoned mine and the maps were not telling anyone or pinpointing exactly where the abandoned mine was, how could this happen?
HESS: Well, you have to understand, in Pennsylvania we've been mining coal for over 100 years. And that means we have over 100 years worth of mine maps.
When we issue permits for new mines, require that they keep at least 200 feet of solid rock between the old mine and the new mine. And when the accident happened, the miners actually thought they were about 300 feet away from the abandoned mine. And it's very unfortunate that these maps appear to be faulty.
But I can tell you that our number one job right now, as Governor Schweiker said, is to get those men out of there. And we plan to do a very thorough investigation and evaluation of what happened -- what went right, what went wrong in this whole rescue effort.
CHUNG: All right, Mr. Hess, are the rescuers closer to reaching the men now?
HESS: Well, now that we've again resumed drilling, as you know, as Jeff said, we had a broken bit and some other problems. Right now we've resumed drilling in the second rescue shaft. We expect momentarily to start drilling in the first.
The first shaft is actually closer to the miners. We're only about 150 feet away. So if we can begin drilling very, very soon, it's still going to take a good six, seven hours to get down there, but certainly we're going to be further ahead than we were.
CHUNG: All right, Mr. Hess, is hypothermia a greater concern, or decompression, or both?
HESS: Well, I think you're right. I think both of those are a concern. One good thing is the compressed air that we're forcing down into the area where we believe the miners are is actually warm air, because when you compress air, it gets warm.
And we're trying to get that warm air into them to hopefully deal with the issue of hypothermia. CHUNG: Now the U.S. Navy is helping out in terms of decompression. They -- is it that they volunteered some equipment?
HESS: Yes they did. When -- because the miners are in an area with compressed air, it's just like being at least 40 or 50 feet underwater. So you can't bring someone out of that kind of environment rapidly. They get the bends, as divers do sometimes.
So we're grateful to the U.S. Navy for their contribution of the chambers that will help them decompress after, we hope -- hopefully bring them out of that mine.
CHUNG: You have said over the days, Mr. Hess, that this is a delicate operation. And it remains so, doesn't it?
HESS: It absolutely does, because you're dealing with major forces of nature. You're dealing with the force of water. You're dealing with the force of rock and air. And if you don't handle those forces properly, they can result in a disaster or in an accident, as we've already seen.
CHUNG: All right.
David Hess, thank you so much for being with us. We will continue praying for these nine miners. Thank you.
Still ahead: You think you've got a tough job? Well, try doing it in dark, cramped underground quarters.
More on the trapped miners when we come back.
ANNOUNCER: Next, an alien world deep beneath the surface; what does it take to work and survive inside a coal mine?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: In 1987 rescue workers had to dig a parallel shaft to get 18-month-old Jessica McClure out of a narrow well, but they couldn't dig too close out of fear of vibrations.
Police Officer Andy Glasscock spent much of the 58 hours trying to keep Jessica calm as diamond-tipped drill bits snapped off against the bedrock, and exhausted workers who heard Jessica singing nursery rhymes broke down crying.
Finally, they sent skinny paramedic Robert O'Donnell down to Jessica. Despite moderate claustrophobia, he was able to use petroleum jelly to ease Jessica out of the well and bring her to safety.
Jessica is now a regular teenager. But what happened to Robert O'Donnell and Andy Glasscock? The answer when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ANNOUNCER: What happened to Police Officer Andy Glasscock and paramedic Robert O'Donnell after the rescue of baby Jessica McClure?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEWIS MCCLURE, JESSICA'S FATHER: For those who were there and those who weren't, we want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
Jessica loves every one of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Today Jessica no longer remembers what they did. But O'Donnell and Glasscock couldn't forget. After all the public attention died down, O'Donnell was unable to win a movie or book deal.
He began abusing painkillers, and lost both his wife and his job. In 1995, he watched the Oklahoma City bombing unfold on television, but lacking bus fare he was unable to go and help out. He killed himself four days later.
As for Glasscock, he credits his wife for forcing him into counseling, saving their marriage, and possibly his life. He has since been promoted to sergeant.
CHUNG: When we heard about the mine accident in Somerset, Pennsylvania, we wanted to know what it could possibly be like for the nine trapped miners. In fact, what is it like for miners every single day?
Gary Kuklish became a miner at the age 18. At age 32, he carried a fellow worker out of a mine fire with only 15 minutes of air left in his tank. After that, he didn't work underground for 13 years.
But just last year, he overcame his fear and returned to underground mining. He joins us now from Somerset, one of the thousands of people in the area waiting for word tonight. Gary, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. Good evening.
GARY KUKLISH, MINER: Good evening, Connie.
CHUNG: Gary, we just received word that both of the drills are working there. So, we're glad about that. But tell us, there's something that I don't think any of us can really fully appreciate, and that is what those nine men are going through at this time, because we have no idea of what it's like to be down there in a mine.
KUKLISH: Well, whenever you first became aware of a tragedy, you have to believe in that it's really (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And in the situation that I went through, I was in a fire. And you didn't really and any of the guys who I was with didn't believe that there was a fire and until you really encountered a situation.
As far as these guys here in Somerset, PA, I say they had to react very, very quickly to the situation that happened. Like I said, I was in a smoke-filled situation. This is a water situation. It's totally different from what I went through, but it's still a disaster. And we miners are trained for disasters.
CHUNG: Are you trained for both types of disaster, both fire and water?
KUKLISH: Well, the last resort in any situation as far as fire or water is a barricade situation. The water and fire situation would be the same thing. That's your last resort. That's your last hope. And as these miners have been pounding on the ceiling with steels, and hopefully somebody above you can find you with the size of the graph (ph) machine and drill down to you and excavate you. That's it. That's your last way out.
CHUNG: Gary, the governor was talking about this special breed of people, miners, and how you can work in the dark and how you can work in a confined space. Can you describe that for us? Tell us what is it? What's it like?
KUKLISH: The working situation, you're usually around -- you're not usually working by yourself. There's usually a crew of people. There could be anywhere from 10 to 12 employees on a section. That's on the production unit I'm talking about. If you're out by, it's a totally different situation. Construction workers are different. My line of work has been production the whole time. It's not really a scary situation. Very...
CHUNG: All right. There are other instances where you do feel you're in danger, isn't that correct?
KUKLISH: No.
CHUNG: Oh, really?
KUKLISH: No, not really at any given time. I can go into a coal mine and feel like I'm sitting in my living room. That's how I feel in there.
CHUNG: I find that extraordinary. Why is that?
KUKLISH: Well, you deal with it day in and day out. You know what hazards are there. You know what you can expect. You don't expect -- things like this happen. It's hard to say what happened to these guys, but...
CHUNG: Now, tell me again...
KUKLISH: Unfortunately...
CHUNG: ... when you go down there -- I'm sorry -- when you go into a mine, you honestly don't fear something potentially happening?
KUKLISH: Well, it's not really a fear. You just pray and hope you come out of there every day safe and unhurt, and do your things that you want to do.
CHUNG: I interrupted you. You were about to say something about those nine miners down there. KUKLISH: This is a water situation. My situation was a fire, smoke-filled entries, which I had to escape a mile and a half through a smoke-filled entry with a crew of 10 guys, and water was nowhere around in our mine to be concerned like this. And when I started in the mine in '74 to the present days, if this was going to be a planned cut-through, there would have been bore holes driven into the sides (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and then you would have thought that they was going to cut through. This was probably a total accident, unplanned for.
CHUNG: Yes. I just want to ask you one quick question, and then I'll have to leave you.
KUKLISH: All right.
CHUNG: Were you honestly afraid you were going to die when you were in that fire accident?
KUKLISH: Yes. On the way out, of the situation I was in, yes. You never know -- the only thing we was told is that there was a fire on the mother belt. We wasn't told precisely where or how far it was from us.
CHUNG: All right.
KUKLISH: After I got out and cleared -- OK.
CHUNG: I'm sorry. We'll leave you now, but I know you're saying your prayers for the miners there. Thank you so much for being with us. Good night to you.
And when we come back, some are calling him the guy who convinced a jury to put the man accused of killing Samantha Runnion back on the streets. We'll hear from him when we return.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead, another missing child, another tragic ending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found what appears to be the body of Casey Williamson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Children as targets. A disturbing trend? CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The unthinkable happened again today. A missing girl, a massive search. This time, it was 6-year-old Cassandra Williamson. Everyone called her Casey. She was abducted this morning in the town of Valley Park outside St. Louis, Missouri. She and her father were staying with a neighbor last night. She had gotten up early, and her father was about to get her some cereal. But when he returned from the bathroom, she was gone. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA WILLIAMSON, CASSANDRA'S MOTHER; When I woke up, when Ernie came up and woke me up and said, "Where's Casey?" I said, "I don't know. She was sleeping with you. What do you mean where's Casey?" And then I walked out here, and the neighbor was outside in her yard. So I asked the neighbor, did you see Casey come out of this house, or have you seen her anywhere? And they said, "no." And I searched this house and I searched that house, and I when the to her friend, Scottie's house and I said "my daughter there?" I went to her friend Zach's house. And nobody had seen her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Then this evening a body was found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIMMY WIDEMAN, CASSANDRA'S GRANDFATHER: Casey was a beautiful child. Everyone has seen her on television all day. She was very intelligent, she loved to ride her bicycle. She loved to sing. She was friendly to everyone. She had all kinds of little friends around here.
It's tough. It's been a long day, and we won't actually be able to start actually coping with it until this is all over and we go on with our lives without Casey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tonight, a suspect is in custody. And just a short while ago, I spoke with St. Louis County Police Chief Ron Battelle. He explained how the sequence of events unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHIEF RON BATTELLE, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: I do know the father and Casey were in a home across the street from their residence with some other people, including our eventual suspect.
CHUNG: And this suspect, did the Williamson family know him?
BATTELLE: They have had some knowledge of who he was, but he was a local transient who was in and out, and they didn't really know him real well.
CHUNG: All right. So this morning, the father was the first person to realize that his daughter was missing. Can you tell us what he told you?
BATTELLE: Well, when he got up in the morning, he looked in the living room, and Casey was in the living room along with John Johnson, our suspect. And he's seen him in there, and then he when the to the restroom. And when he came back into the living room, both were gone.
CHUNG: And what did he do? What did the father do? BATTELLE: Well, he immediately -- he looked around the house and couldn't find anybody, so he went across the street to where his wife was staying to see if Casey had run over there. And obviously, she hadn't. They couldn't find her over there. And they started doing an immediate search of the area to see if they could find her, but they were unable to find her. That's when he called the St. Louis County police.
CHUNG: All right. They had no idea where she had gone or what was happening, did they?
BATTELLE: No. They had no idea, and they were very upset, obviously, when they called the police about it.
CHUNG: So based on your investigation, what then happened?
BATTELLE: Well, we had cars respond to the scene and -- including a watch commander. And we made a determination that we were dealing with what looked like a possible abduction, so we initiated an investigation at that point and called in a number of our units to begin searching the area.
CHUNG: Did you realize early on that you needed to find this man, this transient named Johnny Johnson?
BATTELLE: We knew he was in there and that he had left with her. And in our search of the area shortly thereafter, a couple of my officers found him walking down the street a couple of blocks away from her home.
CHUNG: How long had he been gone?
BATTELLE: At that point, it had been about a half-hour or so.
CHUNG: When the officers came upon him, what did they do? Did they question him, ask him if he was with the girl?
BATTELLE: Well, they made some inquiries and he denied any knowledge of where she was at, and -- although he was wet. And he said...
CHUNG: He was wet?
BATTELLE: He was wet. He said he went for a swim in the river, the Merrimack River right here. But his answers -- you know, he said basically that he didn't have knowledge of anything. But we brought him to one of our substations and began questioning him at that point, and our detectives came in and doing some further investigation with him, along with the investigation that was going on at the scene.
CHUNG: Chief, was he fully clothed and did it seem highly unusual that he would go into the river which is just a few blocks away, and go swimming this morning?
BATTELLE: Certainly that was unusual. And that raised our suspicions about his possible involvement, but he still at that point maintained that he just went for a swim, and that was the extent of it. He didn't have any knowledge as to where Casey was.
CHUNG: How did you find the body that you found in this abandoned glass factory?
BATTELLE: Well, as the day went on, we did an extensive search of the area. And we were continuing to do that, and at some point in time, the suspect began cooperating with detectives and he indicated where she was. And some citizens in the area, who were also searching, it was almost at the same time, located her in this abandoned glass factory.
CHUNG: Chief, so often these days -- and we have seen it certainly in California, just recently -- a young girl was sexually molested as well. Do you have any reason to believe that Casey was sexually molested?
BATTELLE: Well, my experience shows in these type of cases that's always a possibility, but we'll make a determination on that when the medical examiner does his examination, probably tomorrow.
CHUNG: You've talked to the family, of course, Angela and Ernest. Were you the one who informed them that Casey's body -- or you believe Casey's body was found?
BATTELLE: No. They had -- went to our headquarters, so my detectives did that. But coming here, I talked to the parents, and obviously they're devastated. And I just express my sympathy to them and our disappointment that we couldn't find her alive. Certainly that was our goal when we started this investigation, was to find her alive. And we're disappointed that we didn't, but at least we've got someone under arrest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: I had spoken with Angela, Cassandra's mother, briefly on the telephone before she found out that her daughter had died, and she said that her daughter had gone to kindergarten, had learned all about looking out for strangers, what to do during a fire, and that she was really well versed regarding strangers.
She is one of four children that Angela has -- and Angela and Ernest -- 11 years old, 6 years old, 4 and 2. Casey was the second child.
When we come back, the Samantha Runnion killing. We'll talk to the lawyer who got suspect Alejandro Avila off on molestation charges last year. You have to hear what he's going through now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Last year a jury voted to acquit Alejandro Avila on charges he sexually molested two girls. If he had been convicted, if he had gone to prison, Samantha Runnion might be celebrating her 6th birthday today.
Instead, her family buried her yesterday. Tonight CNN's Charles Feldman has an exclusive interview with the lawyer who defended Avila last year, the man who convinced a jury to set him free.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is being called by some The Man Who Got Alejandro Avila Off, the defense attorney who last year won a not guilty verdict for his client, who stood accused of molesting two underage girls.
And now, with Avila behind bars, charged with abducting, molesting and murdering 5-year-old Samantha Runnion, John Pozza finds himself under attack for simply doing his job.
(on camera): So John, these are some e-mails, copies of e-mails that you've gotten in the past few days, I guess, right? Let me read a few of these.
This one says: "He," meaning you, "has the blood of Samantha on his hands, and the public has the right to know who he is, and what he has done."
This one starts out by saying: "Mr. Pozza, you're a sleazeball."
Here's one that's a rhyme: "Hang down your head John Pozza, we wonder if you've cried, you freed a child molester and now Samantha has died."
They go on and on like this. What do you make of these?
JOHN POZZA, AVILA'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Well, again, I -- you know, there are certainly people out there with their opinions. I don't -- I believe that it's a knee-jerk reaction. Certainly...
FELDMAN: But it's got to hurt.
POZZA: Well, yes. Again, on a personal level, it's very troubling.
At no time, again, when we were doing the previous trial would anyone have contemplated that -- and how could we see into the future?
FELDMAN (voice-over): Avila's previously trial lasted five days. He did not testify, but his two alleged victims did.
POZZA: The jury was out about a day-and-a-half.
FELDMAN (on camera): OK, and they came back with a verdict of...
POZZA: They came back with an acquittal on all counts.
FELDMAN (voice-over): In the wake of the murder of Samantha Runnion, just about everyone seems to be asking: How did the jury find him not guilty for alleged sex crimes only a year ago? POZZA: They believe that if Mr. Avila had actually touched the girls in any manner, it was incidental, and certainly not for a sexual intent.
FELDMAN: The prosecutor in the earlier case is devastated, and not talking now to the media.
On "LARRY KING LIVE" Samantha Runnion's mother lashed out at the jurors who found Avila not guilty of molestation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
RUNNION: No, I blame every juror who let him go; every juror who sat on that trial and believed this man over those little girls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FELDMAN: But some of the public apparently blames John Pozza, the man who won Avila his freedom.
(on camera): What is their point, though? Is their point that someone who's accused of a crime shouldn't be given a fair trial, or...
POZZA: I don't think these people are even looking that deep into it. I think it is a knee-jerk reaction. Somehow they feel I got him off -- which I don't agree in using that term ever -- and that somehow I waved my magic wand and got this jury to let him go and that somehow I could foresee into the future that he may have committed this crime.
FELDMAN: Have you had any contact with Samantha Runnion's family?
POZZA: No, I have not.
FELDMAN: Do you plan to?
POZZA: I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to contact them. Certainly my sympathies go out to them. I don't think anything good would come of my contact with them.
FELDMAN: It's my understanding that Paul Dickerson (ph), who was the prosecutor in the case in which your client was acquitted is devastated by the Samantha Runnion case.
POZZA: To Paul I would say, Paul, you did your job. It's very easy for people to come back now and Monday-morning quarterback his job because, you know, that's always easy to do. But I believe he did a very good job.
FELDMAN (voice-over): After Avila was found not guilty, the trial transcript shows the judge telling him: "Your life would be totally destroyed were you convicted of an offense like this, so you should be grateful to your defense team for the work that they put in and change your lifestyle to avoid these kind of accusations in the future."
But recent events would prove otherwise. And yet John Pozza stands by what he did.
POZZA: I can't start second-guessing, now, my clients when they come in and say, I didn't do something, I'm innocent. I can't sit there and say, well, I'm going to judge you first, and then if I feel you're innocent, then maybe I'll defend you, maybe I won't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FELDMAN: And when I asked John Pozza whether he would, if asked, ever represent Alejandro Avila again, his answer is diplomatic, but basically, no thanks -- Connie.
CHUNG: Charles, I don't understand why he came out and went public because, after all, he is getting threats against him and his family. Why?
FELDMAN: Well, I think part of the reason is it's cathartic. Part of the reason also is, as a lawyer, he feels very strongly that the jury system in this country it sacrosanct; that he did his job as a defense attorney, the prosecutor did his job as well. And in the end, as imperfect as the jury system might be, it is, under our system, up to the jury to decide the guilt or innocence of an individual.
And in this case the jury decided, at that last trial, that his client was not guilty.
CHUNG: All right, here you have a prosecutor who's devastated, a defense attorney who's getting threats and, of course, Samantha mom, who is extremely angry at the jurors.
What do you think this will do to the new team: the new prosecutor, the new defense attorney, the new jury?
FELDMAN: Oh, you know, in some cases they talk about a change of venue. They may want to think about a change of country in this one.
I mean, they have some obstacle to meet here. I mean, with all this publicity -- and as you just pointed out, with all the negative public reaction aimed at the prosecutor, aimed at the jury, aimed at the defense attorney -- the public defender that's representing him now has quite a job ahead of her, as does this new prosecution team.
And think about the men and women who eventually will be selected to be on that jury panel. I'm sure they're going to be thinking about what happened in this case.
CHUNG: Absolutely. Charles, thank you so much for that report. Good job, we thank you, have a good weekend.
FELDMAN: Thank you.
CHUNG: When we come back, John Walsh and Marc Klaas turn the pain of losing children into crusades, but neither of them does it quite -- neither of them does it quite like this man that you're about to meet.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: The leader of a Texas posse who makes finding the missing his mission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: There's a sense that's with horses kind of like it is with dogs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: John Walsh and Mark Klaas are not the only fathers who lost children and turned their experiences, their pain into a force for good.
Tim Miller's daughter was kidnapped in 1984. Seventeen months later, her body was found. Since then, he's become the director of a Texas-based group which helps look for missing children. And Tim Miller joins us from Houston. Thank you so much, Mr. Miller.
Mr. Miller, you know, I'm sure that today's report about Cassandra Williamson, and then hearing about Samantha, has really brought back the horrible memories to you. But first, I want to ask you, know, Samantha and Cassandra were both described as very smart girls. They knew all about the business of not talking to strangers, but they didn't have a chance. They had no chance.
MILLER: Well, first of all, my hearts go out and my condolences to both families. And we had tickets to fly to Missouri tomorrow to help on this search. And you're right. I think the rules have changed from what we taught our children about not taking candy from strangers. Don't talk to strangers.
You know, just the past few weeks, we're seeing where they're taking them out of front yards, they're taking them out of their bedrooms. And it's frustrating on our end. I mean, we do lectures at schools and churches and things on child awareness and child safety.
CHUNG: But you just can't do enough. I mean, it's not as if these girls didn't know. They didn't do anything to cause their abductions.
MILLER: I know it. I mean, where do we go from here? A bunch of our group got together today, and this has been a topic with all of our group today. Where do we go from here? What do we do?
CHUNG: Yes, yes.
Do you have any solution? Any thoughts? MILLER: I don't know. We're real frustrated. You know, we did one just three weeks ago for a 4-year-old girl. And that one really hurt us. We took it real personal. It's on a weekly basis now and I mean, we're just dropping everything in our life to go to Missouri.
It seems like we're spending so much time searching for these children anymore, we're not having any time to doing research and seeing what things we could do to make them better aware, but how can they become better aware when they're at their own home, in their own bedroom. It's saddening. It's disturbing.
CHUNG: Yes, it's so upsetting. But I do want everyone to know about your tremendous success record with your group. It is really quite outstanding.
MILLER: Well, I take that as a compliment. You know, we've got some that are out there missing yet. I think we want to bring every one of them back home.
CHUNG: But how many -- let's tell the viewers how many children you have brought home.
MILLER: Well, we brought a lot of them home. We've done 92 searches and almost two years. They weren't all for children, several of them were -- the majority of them were, I guess. We got 65 home safely. Sixteen bodies have been found. We've been to way too many funerals.
And we've still got several of them that are still out there missing, and our search continues for them.
CHUNG: All right. Mr. Miller, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sorry I can't talk to you a little more, but -- and I hope that I'll talk to you on the phone instead of bringing you back for another tragedy.
MILLER: OK. Thank you.
CHUNG: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Monday, William Shatner is becoming a captain in a brand new enterprise, auto racing. We'll talk to him and his new first mate, his wife.
To get a preview of our program every day, sign up for our daily e-mail by logging on to cnn.com/connie.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING," Art Linkletter. 90-year-olds say the darndest things.
Thank you for joining us, and for all of us at CNN, have a great weekend and please keep your eyes on your children.
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