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CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Serial Killer on Loose in Louisiana; Congress Holds Hearings on Possible Iraqi Invasion; Hebrew Univesity Students Speak Out Following Bombing

Aired July 31, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, a serial killer stalks Baton Rouge.
ANNOUNCER: Women in Louisiana are on edge. Police confirm a serial killer is on the loose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be other cases in other geographic areas or other jurisdictions that are related to these cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tonight, what it takes to solve this murder mystery.

Target: Saddam. Is Iraq now a target of the U.S. military?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam Hussein or Saddam Hussein must be dislodged from power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: How big a threat is Saddam? And how will a war with Iraq be different this time? Tonight, the big picture from Baghdad to Washington.

His wife and daughter lost in a fiery crash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the time I realized it was my vehicle, that's when I started to run towards it and there was nothing I could do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: He spent years in a relentless pursuit for justice, until now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I forgive him. I don't think I'll forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The change of heart.

Another deadly bombing in Israel. The target: Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Tonight, we'll meet two students from the university, one Arab, one Jewish. Life on campus in a war zone.

This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening.

In Baton Rouge tonight, women are afraid to walk alone. Police are out in force, hunting a killer they've discovered was responsible for murdering three women in the last year. On the story tonight in Baton Rouge is CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two words have injected a sense of fear in the residents of Baton Rouge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a serial killer.

LAVANDERA: Police say one man is responsible for murdering three women in the last 10 months. Forty-one-year-old Gina Wilson Green was strangled in her home last September. In May, twenty-two-year-old Charlotte Murray Pace was stabbed to death in her townhouse. And this month, forty-four-year-old Pam Kinamore was abducted from her home, her throat slit and her body left under a bridge. There's no evidence of forced entry at either home. The few details that have emerged about these cases have stunned residents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's happened so fast. These women are disappearing right out of their own homes. The last person that disappeared, from what I understand, there was no signs of struggle or anything, and -- and a nice neighborhood.

LAVANDERA: Police aren't sure who the suspect is or where he might be, but they say there's DNA evidence linking the same man to the three murders. Investigators haven't discovered any connection between the three victims. They didn't know each other. And that's also led more people to speculate about who or what the killer is looking for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told my mom, "Look, they all look similar to me, with long dark hair." And that's scary, too, because it seems like they pinpoint certain looks. And they were all dark-haired.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): Now, one of the other issues complicating matters here for investigators in Baton Rouge is that there haven't been many witnesses to these crimes that have come forward. In fact, in the first two murders, no witnesses have come forward for investigators. And in the third murder of Pam Kinamore, which happened just a few weeks ago here in Baton Rouge, the only witness said that there was a gentleman in a white pickup truck that was seen driving away. Presumably, the witness went as far as to tell investigators that that person suspected to have believed to have seen a body slumped over in the passenger seat of the car -- Connie.

CHUNG: Ed, tell me, are women there taking the police warnings seriously?

LAVANDERA: Absolutely, especially the younger women who live around the Louisiana State University campus. And although investigators do say that they don't believe at this point that there is any connection to the campus itself or because of the campus itself at this point, just that two of the murders happened to be close by the campus. So, a lot of women there are extremely nervous. And at this point, investigators say that perhaps fear is a good thing and it reminds people that they need to be cautious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CPL. DON KELLY, BATON ROUGE POLICE: I don't think the city is paralyzed. People are going about their lives. They're going to work. You know, very few people I think have probably significantly altered their routine. But I think it's fair to say that particularly among young women and those who live alone, that there is apprehension. They're very much much aware of this. And that's a good thing right now. That works to our advantage and against the killer because we want women to be aware. We want them to be suspicious. We want them to be challenging of anything they see that doesn't look right or that makes them feel uncomfortable. So that's not necessarily a bad thing right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: That was Corporal Don Kelly, who we just had a chance to speak with several times this morning, but on camera just a few moments ago -- Connie.

CHUNG: Ed, do authorities have any reason to believe that this killer has killed before, that there are other murders that he's committed?

LAVANDERA: Well, they are not closing the door to that possibility. They want to look into that as well. So what they've done is there are about 35 unsolved murder cases involving women here in the Baton Rouge area. They're going back, doing DNA testing through all that cases, comparing notes on all of those cases, making sure that there aren't any more links between these three confirmed cases and any of those 35.

They're hoping that anything that might be able to be dug up in those interviews and in that investigation might be able to help them out for what they're looking for at this point. And that part of the investigation, from what we've spoken with people here, say that has what's made a lot of people nervous, it's just the amount of unknown information at this point. But police here urging everyone just to remain calm, just be more vigilant about what's going on around town.

CHUNG: All right. Ed Lavandera, thank you.

Joining me now are two women who are also very much victims. They lost their daughters to this killer. Charlotte "Murray" Pace's mother, Ann, joins us from Jackson, Mississippi; and Pam Kinamore's mother is Lynne Marino, and she's in Baton Rouge. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

Lynn, let's start with you. I'd love for you to tell me about Pam. I show she was 44 years old, married, and she was blessed with an adopted son. Tell me about her.

LYNNE MARINO, PAM KINAMORE'S MOTHER: Well, Pam was very vivacious. Pam loved life. Pam loved people. I often say Pam's been a businesswoman since she was 10. Pam loved to do everything. She was very talented. If you met Pam once for five minutes, you never forgot her. She was just that kind of individual. She had outer beauty, but she had an inward beauty that was reflected in everything she did and every interaction she had with people. And it's just been a terrible loss for us. And that's why we've gotten on this campaign to try to find the person who is responsible for this.

CHUNG: Yes, indeed you have, You and the other mothers. Let's go to Ann Pace now. Ann, tell me about your daughter. I know that she was very smart, she was only 22.

ANN PACE, MURRAY PACE'S MOTHER: Yes, she was indeed. She always made me laugh and she could laugh at herself. And she was very smart. She was only 22 and had managed to finish a four-year undergraduate degree and a two-year graduate degree. She loved chocolate and Chick- fil-A. She had a pair of fuzzy, leopard-print boots. She loved to have a good time. She could run six miles. She was so young and so promising. And I think her greatest gift was that she made wonderful and cherished friends and was a wonderful and cherished friend herself. And like Gina and Pam, she's so loved by all of us...

CHUNG: The other woman.

PACE: ... and missed every day. Yes.

CHUNG: You miss her every day? I'm sorry, I interrupted you.

PACE: Oh, no, that's all right. Of course. She's -- all three of these women -- I know Murray, she was my youngest child, my baby girl. And they've left terrible empty spaces in three families.

CHUNG: Yes. I know you called her Murray and everybody else did. You have really taken a lead, you and the other mothers. You're trying to find common links between these three murdered women. Such as what? What are you looking for?

PACE: Well, all of us have looked for any activity or hairdresser, gymnasium, restaurant, anything in common, interests. We've tried to explore all of those things. So far...

CHUNG: Have you come up with anything?

PACE: No. We have not been successful so far. And I don't know how the others feel. What I fear is that the parameters that this individual uses to select victims are a product of an irrational mind and I don't know if they're accessible to us, because they're trying to...

CHUNG: Let's go to Lynne Marino and find out what she thinks as well. Lynne, I know that you've been trying to help out one of your other daughters, spoke actually to Ann Pace. Have you found any links? And what are your thoughts about this serial killer?

MARINO: No. We thought about church, and that's why we're trying to get together with the other families so that we could have a little session where we could exchange ideas. So far, the only link I know is she rode her bike once or twice by the lake with her son. The other victims were around the lake. But, I mean, you know, that's a shot in the dark.

CHUNG: Now, this person, this killer, apparently was able to go to the homes of every woman. And there was no forced entry. Does it sound like your daughter would have let a stranger into her home?

MARINO: No, Connie. The more I think about it, I think this is a person that these women have seen that's charming, friendly, they feel comfortable with.

Now, this is just my theory.

And I think he must use some ploy: He's broken down, he's hurt himself, whatever, and wins their confidence.

I mean, one of these girls they said had taken self-defense, was strong. One girl fought him. And you know, why -- they all had burglar alarms. Why does this guy fool these women like this? I mean, you know, we don't know. We're all speculating.

That's one of the reasons we've launched this campaign to arouse public awareness of what was going on. I really think if Pam had known the danger in Baton Rouge she would have been a lot more careful than she was.

Ann Pace, are the police coordinating with you mothers?

PACE: I do not hear from the police.

CHUNG: Really? They've been very tight-lipped, haven't they?

PACE: They have been very cautious. I understand that it's an ongoing investigation, but it's frustrating not to know more. And I -- in fact, I learned, myself, of the connection with Pam Kinamore with Gina and Murray through Melissa Moore, who's a reporter for "The Advocate" newspaper in Baton Rouge. And I was not called by the police about that at all.

CHUNG: That must be so difficult for you, because you're so proactive as well.

Do you think the fact that police have linked these three killings will help actually solve the murders?

PACE: I, myself, think that it must be the case, because I think each time information accumulates, evidence accumulates, and eventually, I pray, perhaps through broadcasts such as this, that something will click with someone, something will add up in somebody's head and they'll come forward, and this will be solved.

CHUNG: Good. Ann Pace, thank you so much. I appreciate your being with us.

Lynne Marino, thank you as well for sharing your stories with us.

MARINO: Thank you.

CHUNG: Now joining me, now, from St. Paul, Minnesota is Pat Brown, who makes her living figuring out what drives serial killers like the one in Baton Rouge.

The three women, Pat, were killed in three different ways. One was strangled, one was stabbed and one had her throat slit.

Would a serial killer use three different methods?

PAT BROWN, CEO, SEXUAL HOMICIDE EXCHANGE: Yes. Actually a lot of people believe that there's just one M.O. with a serial killer; that if they're going strangle one time, they're going to strangle from then on.

And this is one of the things that throws investigations off. For example, the first two murders don't appear to have been linked, and even though the women had such close proximity in where they lived, they should have been linked through that. But probably because one was a strangulation and one was not, they thought, oh, this wasn't the same guy.

But serial killers use different methods, sometimes because of circumstances, sometimes because anger escalates, sometimes simply because they forgot their weapon, left it at home.

CHUNG: Isn't it odd, though, that the women were different ages: two of them were in their 40s and one was in -- she was 22 -- she was in her 20s. And the one that was 22 was 5-8, very tall, very athletic.

BROWN: Well, actually, serial killers don't necessarily kill people just exactly the same age. They often kill people who are convenient. Perhaps this person was in the area watching and noting who was home alone, who was easy to attack. He might have had another person in mind, but that was too difficult a residence to enter, so he focused on somebody who he thought he would be successful with.

So you can have different ages. You may have a preference. A serial killer may say, I like 20 year olds, and I like 5-foot-4 because they're easy to handle.

But in a pinch maybe, hey, this one looks like they're going to be pretty easy, too, so I'll go after that one.

CHUNG: One of the individuals who was in that neighborhood who Ed Lavandera interviewed said that she was concerned because she looks like the other victims, she's got dark hair. Is that a clue?

BROWN: No, not really.

If you remember back to Ted Bundy and how everybody always says he always picked women with hair parted down the middle.

Well, if you go back to the 1970s and open up your yearbook, I was born in that era, and I had that same hair parted down the middle, and so did my sisters. Both of them had the hair in the same style. All college women pretty much had their hair in that style. He was picking women on college campuses.

In this case -- actually, if you look back, also you'll find that most serial killers pick women with dark hair. And I'm not sure quite why that is; probably because that are more dark-haired women in the world.

So perhaps down in that area there simply are more dark-haired women, and that's -- he just picked dark-haired women because they were convenient.

So if I had dark hair, I wouldn't worry any more than if I had blond hair. As a matter of fact, you don't want to say, because I have blond hair, I'm safe. You want to be careful regardless of what you look like. And that includes race. You don't want to say, if the victims are white and I'm black, I don't have to worry; or if the victims are black and I'm white, I don't have to worry.

They pick -- serial killers pick women who are convenient.

CHUNG: Now, the killer confronted all of these women in their homes. What does that tell you about him?

BROWN: Well, that's where he likes to work. Perhaps he likes to have that inside crime because he has time to work. He apparently has a method of at least going up to the homes and getting into them. It does sound like he might have a ruse going.

And it doesn't take much. We often think our loved ones would not open a door to a stranger, but most of the time, actually, normal people do, especially if they're not feeling particularly threatened. They hear a knock, they open the door, a young man is standing there. He doesn't have to be handsome, he doesn't have to be overly personable, but he just simply has to look not like a monster.

And we'll probably open the door and say, can I help you? And that's all he needs. He doesn't need to get into the house, he just needs the door open, and he can push his way in. CHUNG: Now, the police aren't sharing a lot of information with the families, as you heard. They do not know if their loved ones were sexually molested. However, they were linked by police through DNA.

So do you assume that they were sexually molested?

BROWN: Unfortunately, yes. Most of these kind of crimes, these serial homicides, especially of young women, are sexual homicides. So my guess is yes, the DNA was linked through a sexual assault.

And I also want to comment on the women. I think they've done a marvelous job getting together and being proactive. They're doing the wonderful thing of trying to link these crimes together, looking at the commonalities between where the women -- what the women are doing, where they've been, who they've known.

This is the way you catch killers. And this is why the police should always go to the community with as much information as possible so people can identify who's been in that community? Who's been lurking around? Who do these people know? Who's been acting strangely?

They need to go to the community and get the information.

CHUNG: And apparently, Pat, they haven't been doing that. They've been extremely tight-lipped.

BROWN: This is correct. And this is very normal.

And we, ourselves, at the Sexual Homicide Exchange are trying to change that concept.

There are certain things you do want to keep away for the purposes of prosecution -- you don't want to give all your information up. But there's so much more information you can give up and ask the community right away, start canvassing the neighborhood after every one of these kinds of homicides and start looking for the person who has done this. It's the only way you're going to catch these people.

CHUNG: All right, Pat Brown, thank you so much. It's so good to tap into your brain. We appreciate it.

BROWN: My pleasure.

CHUNG: Still head: Hebrew University was the target, putting Jews and Arabs in the crosshairs. We'll talk to an Israeli Jew and an Israeli Arab, both of them students at the school hit by today's bombing.

ANNOUNCER: Next: It's caused a national debate.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: They have chemical weapons and biological weapons, and have an appetite for nuclear weapons and have been working on them for a good many years.

ANNOUNCER: Target: Saddam Hussein. Is it now just a matter of when?

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Should the U.S. invade Iraq? The debate heated up soon after September 11, although the U.S. has said it has no evidence of Iraqi involvement in the attacks. So, why would the U.S. invade? How? When? And what would happen afterwards? Well, these are the kinds of questions a Senate committee started looking at today. Ultimately, the answers will make history and possibly send a quarter- million Americans into battle. Here is a look at some of today's testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: I understand, I don't want to divulge anything here, but I suspect that al Qaeda elements are in Iraq. The resolution we passed made it very clear the president has authority to pursue the al Qaeda wherever they may be found, whatever country, which could very well include Iraq.

ANTHONY CORDESMAN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I think only fools would bet the lives of other men's sons and daughters on their own arrogance and call this force a cakewalk or a speed bump or something that you can dismiss. I see every reason for the reservation of the American military and the joint chiefs. And I think efforts to dismiss the military capabilities of Iraq are dangerous and irresponsible.

BIDEN: Saddam Hussein's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, in my view, is one of those clear dangers, even if the right response to his pursuit is not so crystal clear. One thing is clear: These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam Hussein or Saddam Hussein must be dislodged from power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHUNG: So, how will all the politics affect whether the U.S. will go to war? CNN's Wolf Blitzer covered the hearings and he joins us now from Washington. Wolf, thank you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: Based on your testimony you heard today, tell me, does Iraq pose a credible threat?

BLITZER: Well, most of the witnesses, most of the experts, most of the senators, all agreed fundamentally that Saddam Hussein does represent a threat. The extent of that threat was to a certain degree under debate, whether he has an immediate capability of developing and deploying weapons mass destruction, whether chemical, biological or perhaps even nuclear capabilities. And they all seem to disagree on when that threat might materialize. They certainly disagreed on whether the U.S. should resort to a full-scale military invasion right now. Some of the witnesses, some of the senators said a lot more time could be used to study the various options, including tightening up the economic, diplomatic sanctions against the Iraqi regime. So, those questions are still in play right now, Connie.

CHUNG: What evidence did the experts give?

BLITZER: One of the experts who testified, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector, Richard Butler, said, for example, that later, the International Atomic Energy Agency, once they were inspecting Iraq after the Gulf War, they concluded that before the Iraqis invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, the Iraqis were about six months away from deploying, from developing a crude nuclear device. That, of course, was set back as a result of the Gulf War.

Two years ago, Butler said the IAEA concluded that if there were no inspections, and there haven't been any weapons inspections for almost four years, the Iraqis within two years potentially could develop a crude nuclear device. Well, guess what? Two years is just about now. So that clock is ticking if Butler is right.

CHUNG: Well, Butler also said that there is no that Iraq would provide its weapons of mass destruction to a non-Iraqi terrorist.

BLITZER: He did say that. He said that you can't completely rule that out. But in the past, there is no evidence the Iraqis would provide chemical, biological or nuclear capabilities if they eventually get them to a group like al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations, although, as you heard the Senate Minority Leader...

CHUNG: Yes, I was just about to say, Trent Lott just said...

BLITZER: Trent Lott suggested that there was an al Qaeda presence within Iraq. But there is a difference between supporting al Qaeda and perhaps developing some terror cooperation with al Qaeda on the one hand, and actually giving al Qaeda terrorists weapons of mass destruction. There is a nuance, but it's a significant nuance.

CHUNG: All right. Now, is President Bush justified in his threats against Iraq?

BLITZER: President Bush is clearly convinced that there has to be a regime change, what he calls a regime change, that the Saddam Hussein regime has to go. On that point, there is very little debate, actually, the former Clinton administration said the same things. Most Democrats and Republicans in Congress say exactly the same thing.

The whole question though is how do you do it? There are some within U.S. military and elsewhere who think just keep the status quo going, eventually Saddam Hussein will fall. Others say the U.S. simply do not -- the United States does not have that luxury because if you just let the status quo continue, in the meantime, Saddam Hussein could develop those weapons of mass destruction. And if he develops and tests a nuclear device, that instantly changes the entire equation, the geostrategic equation in the region. What do you do after Saddam Hussein has a nuclear capability?

CHUNG: I think it's obvious to everyone that an attack on Iraq would be supported domestically, but not internationally, correct?

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein has been very successful in his diplomats, Connie, in recent months in working against the U.S., working with several of the European countries, especially the French, working with the Russians, which have huge economic stakes in Iraq, certainly working with several of the Arab countries. There is a relationship that's developed with Syria. And several of the Arab countries have clearly been intimidated. Publicly, they say they don't want the U.S. to go to war against Iraq. Although U.S. officials privately say if the U.S. engages decisively and quickly, the moderate Arab states will be onboard. But that's certainly a big if right now.

CHUNG: I think our greatest fear here in this country is if we attack Saddam Hussein, will he retaliate with chemical or biological weapons?

BLITZER: That's the huge question mark right now. Remember, during the 1991 Gulf War, the then Defense Secretary Dick Cheney warned that if he were to use chemical or biological weapons, the U.S. would not rule out any kind of response. The implication being perhaps even a nuclear response, the theory after the Gulf War was that that deterred the Iraqis from putting some sort of chemical or biological agents on those SCUD missiles that were launched against Israel or Saudi Arabia.

If Saddam Hussein now were to be convinced that his days were numbered, would he once again be reluctant to use those chemical or biological agents? And that's a huge question mark. And U.S. officials acknowledge they don't have an answer to that question right now.

CHUNG: And finally and quickly, if -- is the general consensus that if we do attack Iraq, it will not be this year?

BLITZER: The general consensus is it probably will be after the November elections. Certainly, the chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee, Joe Biden, is under the impression there won't be any so-called October surprise towards the end of this year. But, you know, there is a huge wild card out there, Connie, and that's what if the U.S. does discover that the Iraqis are planning on doing something in the weapons of mass destruction category or what if there is something they haven't yet discovered yet, a direct link between Iraq and al Qaeda that could upset any such plans down the road.

CHUNG: All right. Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much. It's so good to have you with us.

BLITZER: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: And a little later, a man who was determined to find and confront the teenager who caused the deaths of his wife and daughter. He found the teens. Wait until you hear what happened next. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: Still ahead, his wife and daughter killed in a car crash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was nothing I could do. I collapsed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: And he searches for the man responsible. But this story has an unbelievable twist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I thank you, sir, for your compassion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: So often, when we talk about people doing unimaginable things, it's about awful things. This story is different. This story is about a man who did something that is difficult to imagine anyone doing. We'll meet him in a minute. But first, here is the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, mom.

CHUNG (voice-over): Bruce Murakami's wife, Cindy, was his best friend for 20 years. They had two sons and a daughter, Chelsea. They adopted her when she was four months old.

On November 16, 1998, mother and daughter pulled out of a shopping mall in the family's minivan. Speeding toward them at what some reports say was as much as 90 miles an hour was 19-year-old Justin Cabezas. Just a few blocks away, Bruce Murakami was pulling out of his driveway on his way to work. He saw black smoke rising and immediately drove toward it.

As he approached the scene, he saw a mangled wreck in flames and realized it was his own minivan. His wife and daughter were dead inside, unable to free themselves from the car. The Florida Highway Patrol concluded that the accident was his wife Cindy's fault and the case was closed.

But Bruce Murakami refused to accept that Cindy was to blame. He started his own investigation, finding witnesses and hiring accident reconstruction experts. Three years after Cindy and Chelsea's deaths, Bruce Murakami succeeded in convincing the local prosecutor to file manslaughter charges against Justin Cabezas, charges that could put him in prison for 30 years. A father was finally getting the justice he sought.

But wait. This is when the fate of these two men takes an unexpected turn. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): The two men in that story have agreed to talk about what they've gone through and what they're doing now. Bruce is in Tampa and Justin is joining us from Bradenton. Thank you so much for being with us.

Bruce, tell me about your wife and your only daughter. Bring them to life for me.

BRUCE MURAKAMI, LOST WIFE & DAUGHTER TO DRAG RACER: Well, Cindy was a very compassionate woman, a very loving woman, not only beautiful on the outside, but extremely beautiful on the inside. And she's an inspiration to me. I mean, it's her grace that's taught me this grace and compassion for others, her example, basically.

CHUNG: You had a 20-year marriage.

MURAKAMI: Yes, we did. It was a great marriage. I mean, we've had our times, believe me, but it was a wonderful marriage.

CHUNG: Well, I know the blessings of having an adopted child. So, Chelsea was adopted.

MURAKAMI: Chelsea was adopted. We adopted her from Korea when she was four months old. And, I mean, if you ever hear the term "daddy's little girl," that was it. She was just a gifted child, a great reader. She loved to sing. She was full of life.

CHUNG: Let's go back to November 16, 1998. You're pulling out of your driveway, going to work. And you see this huge cloud of smoke billowing into the air. For some reason, you decide to drive to it. Why?

MURAKAMI: Connie, I just had -- it's almost like a premonition, a weird feeling. I wanted to know -- I just felt that something came over me that something was wrong.

CHUNG: When you followed the smoke and arrived on the scene, tell me what you saw and what you thought.

MURAKAMI: Well, once I pulled out of my subdivision, I was at the intersection, I could look up the road. And I noticed the smoke and I noticed it was a car accident and not a building fire. So, I had a feeling to go look at it. And normally, I never look at a car accident. So, I drove and parked my truck and walked up to the scene. And by the time I realized it was my vehicle, that's when I started to run towards it. And there was nothing I could do. I collapsed.

CHUNG: You couldn't go in there and save your wife and your daughter?

MURAKAMI: Oh, no. It was pretty gruesome. There was still -- vehicles were still exploding.

CHUNG: You decided to go on a mission. It's practically a crusade on your part. You decided because the local authorities were not going to press charges against anyone and, in fact, said that the accident was your wife's fault, you decided to investigate yourself. Why?

MURAKAMI: Well, in my mind I always knew that there was something that -- there was a crime committed here. The accident was not my wife's fault, I firmly believe, and it was a result of someone's reckless actions.

CHUNG: When the authorities did not press charges against you -- because you, in fact, were drag racing, were you not?

CABEZAS: Yes.

CHUNG: When no charges were pressed against you, why didn't you come forward?

CABEZAS: You know, Connie, it's -- I wasn't even thinking of charges, and even to the day, I still don't even think of the charges. I more think of what happened and the people that died in that accident and the utter tragedy that it was.

CHUNG: Did you believe that you, indeed, were responsible for that accident?

CABEZAS: Yes, absolutely. I feel that my actions were reckless, and even to the day, and even right now, I feel ashamed for them.

CHUNG: When you were finally able to convince the authorities to press charges against Justin, it was almost three long years later.

Justin was going to plead guilty to manslaughter, and this major turning point occurred in your mind. Tell us what happened.

MURAKAMI: Well Connie, actually it was just -- not too long after the accident. As a Christian, I have to forgive Justin for his actions. I'm not the one to judge him, God will judge him.

I didn't want to carry that anger and that rage around with me for losing my wife and my daughter. But I also wanted to see justice, and that is why I pressed forward with this.

CHUNG: And here Justin was; he was facing, actually, 30 years in prison. You were finally getting your justice, because he was going to plead guilty to manslaughter.

And yet something happened. It was a turning point in your life.

MURAKAMI: Well actually, yes. I knew that there was going to be a -- probably a plea agreement because Justin has never committed any kind of a crime. I mean, the kid has no record; he's a good kid.

And I knew they were going to come with a plea agreement. And I felt, there's a way to make this plea -- he had to serve some time for this, and he, in a sense, is still serving 10 years under different conditions. But I thought, let's turn this into something positive. And I wanted to save other lives, and using Justin as a spokesperson for reckless driving, kids are going to listen to him. He's a young man.

CHUNG: What happened as you stood there face to face with Bruce?

CABEZAS: Well, it was a very emotional meeting, that's for sure. I pretty much just broke down in tears. I told him exactly how I felt and how I dealt with every day the responsibility that I took for what happened. I told him about the shame that I felt on the inside, and that I thought that his idea that maybe we can help people and prevent this sort of tragedy from ever happening again was grandiose and that I actually, I supported him 100 percent.

And I was amazed that he could sit there in front of me and actually tell me that he understood that I didn't mean to do any -- I didn't mean to hurt anybody. It happened.

CHUNG: Bruce, since you said that you forgave him long ago, you know, right after the accident. When you sat there face to face with him, what was going through your mind?

MURAKAMI: Well, I was nervous, and I'm sure he was. It was -- you know, I didn't know what reaction was. I mean, there was no anger in me, like, you know, I wanted to get this kid. It was about, let me hear it from him. And I pretty much told Justin, I'm just going to sit here and listen to you. I'm not going to ask you why, because that's the past. But I wanted to hear his heart, and...

CHUNG: You did hear his heart, didn't you?

MURAKAMI: Oh, absolutely.

CHUNG: So the agreement turned out to be what, Bruce?

MURAKAMI: As far as -- basically Justin, like I said, is under the department of corrections for 10 years, and that's broken into a couple years of house arrest, loss of driver's license, community service, so...

CHUNG: And probably the most important part is the two of you will go out and speak to young people.

MURAKAMI: Yes. And I think that's part of the community service hours which I think are excellent. They'll be put to good use.

CHUNG: Justin, have you been able to forgive yourself?

CABEZAS: That, I don't even know if I'll ever be able to do, Connie. It's not something I can say I have or have not done, it's something that, as Bruce said to me, I have to deal with, and I have to try to live. And this my own feeling, I have to live every day the best I can and do the most I can to help other people so that when this is all said and done and I'm up in heaven, that it looks like a slate that, hey, I lived a good life. And even though I caused the lives of two other people to be lost, that maybe in some respect I led a good life for them.

I just wanted to say thank you for Bruce. I've done it before, and I'll continue to do it. And I'm in his debt, that's for sure. Most people wouldn't be as understanding and compassionate as he has been and his family has been through this whole incident.

I'm really amazed every time I see him that he can move on with his life. And I look for him for support sometimes myself, and for strength, just to understand that even though he's had such a great loss that he can move on with his life.

And I hope I can gain from his strength, and I hope we can actually help people.

MURAKAMI: I agree. And I think that's -- you know, my goal here was to turn a horrible tragedy into something very positive, and that's what we're going to do.

CHUNG: Gentlemen, thank you so much. I can't tell how much I appreciate your telling your stories. It happens to be one story though, because you're obviously united together.

Thank you so much.

MURAKAMI: Thank you Connie

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: When we come back: terror explodes on a campus. We'll talk with two students with two very different views.

ANNOUNCER: Still to come: another deadly bombing in Israel, university students the target. What it's like to live and learn in the war zone.

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will return in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Today's bombing in Israel was different from other attacks. It wasn't a suicide bombing, plus for the first time in the year-and-a-half since the latest wave of violence began, the target of the bomb was a university, Hebrew University, where thousands of Arab and Jewish Israelis study together.

The bomb actually went off in the Frank Sinatra International Student Center, and at least three Americans were among the seven people killed. In the last two years, almost 600 Israelis have been killed and almost 1,500 Palestinians. Earlier tonight I spoke with two students at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Kesa Abu Gosh and Amil Weizenblugh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Amil, you were actually near the explosion when it went off. What did you do? AMIL WEIZENBLUGH, JEWISH ISRAELI AT HEBREW UNIV.: Well, I was studying in the law library, which is about 50 meters from the cafeteria, and I heard the explosion.

At first I thought it was just an airplane. But after a few minutes I realized that it was a terror attack. I went outside just see if they need any help, and I saw that there were many policemen and that my help was not needed. So just went inside.

CHUNG: Were you scared?

WEIZENBLUGH: Well, yes. It is the first time that I am -- I near such a place.

CHUNG: Have you been fearful in the last year-and-a-half for your life?

WEIZENBLUGH: Well, I can't say that I'm so afraid that I'm not going out on the streets, but yes, I feel a little bit scared and unsafe.

CHUNG: Kesah, tell me, where were you when the blast went off?

KESAH ABU GOSH, ARAB ISRAELI AT HEBREW UNIV.: Well, I have been in the dorms studying and...

CHUNG: Yes?

GOSH: ...we have heard the bombing and we did -- me and my roommate, a lot of phones maybe about three hours to -- trying to reach our friends. Until now we didn't reach everybody.

CHUNG: Did you go to the scene, to the cafeteria?

GOSH: No. Just not recommended for me as an Arabian to be in such a place after a bombing because there were many demonstrations and things like that...

CHUNG: Of course.

GOSH: ...against the Arabs and shoutings and...

CHUNG: Was this the closest you had come to any violence?

GOSH: This is my first time in such a thing.

CHUNG: Tell me, do you have friends who are Jewish Israelis? Because you are an Arab Israeli.

GOSH: Yes, I do. I have a lot of friends who are Jews. The Hebrew University includes a lot of students from almost all over the world, and we are dealing so nice together.

CHUNG: Exactly. I believe the university was considered to be an enclave, a safe haven where Arabs and Jews could be very friendly. Did you always feel that way? Were you -- was that one of the reasons why you went to the university?

GOSH: Well, the Hebrew University may be one of the best universities in the whole world, not only here in Israel. So we just want to get the opportunity to be the best, you know? And that's really great.

CHUNG: Amil, did you feel that Hebrew University was a safe place because, indeed, it was a model of co-existence between Palestinians and Jews?

WEIZENBLUGH: Well, most of the courses here in the university I study with Arabs, and I must say that I felt safe until now. Also because of that and also because there is a lot of security around the university. But from now on, I feel not safe.

CHUNG: Are you concerned about a counterattack, a backlash?

WEIZENBLUGH: No, I don't think that can happen in the university.

CHUNG: I'm going to ask you a question that very few people can answer anyway. Is there a way out?

WEIZENBLUGH: Well, I think that the only way out is peace and negotiation. I think that violence cannot solve anything. But in order to achieve useful negotiation and a true peace, I think that the terror attacks must stop first. That is the only way.

CHUNG: How do you see your future?

WEIZENBLUGH: Well, I hope in the future that things will be better, but I don't see -- after today, I cannot be very optimistic.

CHUNG: All right. You're both very wise for being so young. We appreciate your being with us and we wish you well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Kesah and Amil. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tomorrow, she wore her hair in cornrows. It cost her her job. So what did she do? We'll tell you tomorrow night.

To get a preview of our program every day, sign up for our daily e-mail by logging on to CNN.com/CONNIE. And coming up next on LARRY KING LIVE, the latest on the Danielle van Dam and Elizabeth Smart cases. Thank you for joining us, and for all of us at CNN, good night and see you tomorrow.

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