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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
New Jersey Jury Deadlocked on Two Counts; Heston Announces Possible Onset of Alzheimer's
Aired August 09, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. Tonight, deadlocked on two charges, and a victim's family reacts.
ANNOUNCER: An impassioned plea from a grieving father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL ELLIOTT, JOHNNY ELLIOTT'S FATHER: Let us pledge that today is the day that we decided to win the war on drunk driving in America. Our son deserves it, and so do the lives of the 16,000 people killed each year because somebody decided it was a greater right to drive drunk than it was to protect the life of the innocent victims that they kill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Sorrow and anger from a mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURIEL ELLIOTT, JOHNNY ELLIOTT'S MOTHER: No one should have to suffer a loss like we have had to suffer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Not guilty for the man charged with their son's death after he allegedly let his best friend drive drunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In their words, "hopelessly deadlocked."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Eluding a serial killer? Tonight, the hero who stopped a kidnapping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something that needed to be done because I have a 2-year-old daughter and, you know, I would want somebody to do the same for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Did he save her from the most sought after man in Louisiana?
A surprise announcement from a legendary actor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLTON HESTON, ACTOR: I may have a neurological disorder whose symptoms are consistent with Alzheimer's disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Charlton Heston and his new battle with a debilitating disease. Tonight, a closer look at Alzheimer's.
Imagine yourself on the operating table in the middle of surgery, and your surgeon leaves for a half-hour to go to the bank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In all my years of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) work, I've never heard of anything quite like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, what happened to the patient? And will the doctor keep his job?
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN broadcast center in New York, Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. Tonight, the jury was split. And a possibly historic question about the legal responsibility for drunk drivers remains unanswered. It's a case that's being watched closely because of the impact it could have on America's attitudes and behavior regarding drunk drivers. On the story tonight in Salem, New Jersey, CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With considerable regret, I will declare a mistrial.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In their third day of deliberations, after a three-and-a-half week trial, the jurors said they were hopelessly deadlocked on two of three charges against Powell, vehicular homicide and aggravated assault, although they did reach a verdict on the third, manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that unanimous verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty.
FRANKEN: It was an inconclusive result in a unique legal action. The charges against Powell grew out of two deaths caused by the drunk driving of a friend. Powell was nowhere around when Michael Pangle slammed his car a bit more than two years ago into an automobile driven by Navy Ensign Johnny Elliott. Elliott had graduated just two months earlier from the Naval Academy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count one to 30?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, three, oh...
FRANKEN: But Michael Pangle had already been arrested once that night for driving under the influence. He called his friend, Kenneth Powell, to pick him up at the state police barracks. Powell took Pangle back to his car and left. Pangle got behind the wheel and went drinking again. Before the night had passed, his vehicle swerved into Elliott's oncoming car, and both were killed.
B. ELLIOTT: Today, you are looking into the faces of the saddest family in America. Not because of this decision today, but because two years ago, we lost the finest son and brother that any family could hope for.
FRANKEN: Johnny Elliott's family got a promise from prosecutors, Kenneth Powell will face another trial in January.
JOHN BERCH, PROSECUTOR: I'm here to tell you that the state of New Jersey, the Salem County Prosecutor's Office, we are prepared to proceed to move forward in this case.
CHRISTOPHER MANGANELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If the Salem County Prosecutor's Office decides to try this case again on January 6 against Kenneth Powell, they will be on for the biggest fight of their lives.
FRANKEN (on camera): For now, the legal question remains: Is it a crime for someone not to do enough to stop a drunk from driving?
Bob Franken, CNN, Salem, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining me now from Salem, New Jersey, Bill and Muriel Elliott and their daughter, Jennifer. Thank you for being with us.
B. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Mrs. Elliott, when the jury came out and the verdict was announced, some of the jurors cried. What did that say to you?
M. ELLIOTT: That said to me that they really took this job seriously. They looked over the evidence carefully, and that it was really difficult emotionally for many of them to make a -- this decision. And they wanted it to be a decision unanimously, in our favor, I feel.
CHUNG: Do you? Mr. Elliott, do you feel the same way? I mean, after all, they did acquit him on manslaughter. They could not agree on the lesser charges. What do you think? B. ELLIOTT: Well, I'm not sure what they thought, Connie. I saw the same tears that Muriel saw. And I think I agree, that they wanted to do the right thing, and I think they did what in their hearts they thought was the right thing, and we can live with that. But the case will go forward. They were deadlocked on two charges that will make the case in January when they go retry this case.
CHUNG: Well, on some level, Mr. and Mrs. Elliott, and Jennifer, too, don't you think maybe this should be put to rest? In other words, why go through another trial in January and, you know, even with all due respect, why put this man and everyone through another trial? I would think that you could have your influence over the prosecution if you believed that enough is enough.
B. ELLIOTT: Well, we haven't made that decision yet. You know, certainly this is early. We think the bigger issue of drunk driving in America is the message we want to get across. But we also think that we owe it to John to represent his interests, because when he was on the road that night, if Michael Pangle had never been on that road, John would be with us today and serving his country. And we think it's important to represent John's interests as well.
CHUNG: I really understand what you're saying. Jennifer, what do you think? Honestly, I'm sure you know that this has been so trying on your parents. Is it for the best, to proceed in January?
JENNIFER ELLIOTT, JOHNNY ELLIOTT'S SISTER: I think that we're thinking about something bigger, and that's the issue of drunk driving, that we think that the case is important to try, but also that regardless of the verdict, there's a lot more at stake, that people need to realize that there's a lot of consequences when people are driving drunk, and a lot of people lose loved ones to it. And I think that it's important that people think twice about this and realize the significance of it.
CHUNG: We have a clip of Kenneth Powell's defense attorney expressing a message to you. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANGANELLO: Ken Powell specifically wanted me to state that he expresses his condolences to the Elliott family. He understands that the Elliott family is not getting what they believe is justice in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: You just heard Kenneth Powell's attorney express Powell's condolences. How did you feel about that? Did it have any meaning to you?
B. ELLIOTT: Yes, it has meaning to us. We appreciate that. We believe that he probably feels that way, and we appreciate knowing it. It still won't bring back our son, but we appreciate hearing it.
CHUNG: If this man had come to you earlier on, then it would have made a difference?
B. ELLIOTT: Hard to tell. He didn't. So it's hard to go back and use 20/20 hindsight. We do appreciate hearing it now, however.
CHUNG: When I watched you and your wife and your daughter right after the verdict and you were speaking to reporters, it just broke my heart, because you both -- both Mr. Elliott and Mrs. Elliott broke down. Can you find closure, or will it be that moment when John's law becomes a national law that you might finally find some closure, or is it impossible?
B. ELLIOTT: It's never totally possible to gain true closure, because you'll have to live every day knowing you'll never see your son, hear his voice or hold him ever again. And he was such a bright, shining light in our life, brought so much joy and laughter. I don't think closure is ever possible, but John's law being a national law would give us a great sense of peace and accomplishment that we fulfilled a promise that we made to our son. And that certainly would be worthy of our efforts, our best efforts.
CHUNG: And finally, Mr. Elliott, you thanked the jury. Why did you do that?
B. ELLIOTT: I did that because I know that they did their very best. And we said from the very beginning, we had full faith in the jury system and that we know that they did the very best they could to deliver justice to not only the defendant but also to our son. We thank them for that.
CHUNG: Mr. and Mrs. Elliott, Jennifer, we thank you for joining us. And we wish you well.
B. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
M. ELLIOTT: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: Still ahead, he rescued her from an attacker police think might be a three-time serial killer. You'll meet him right after this.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead, legendary actor, controversial activist, Charlton Heston's emotional revelations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HESTON: Alzheimer's disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight, what just may be a face-to-face encounter with a serial killer. You are about to meet the man who rescued a woman this week from a would-be abductor just outside Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Police are now looking at whether that attacker is the serial killer who murdered three women in less than a year. Those three murders are all linked by DNA evidence.
Joining me now from Baton Rouge, the Federal Express driver who rescued an 18-year-old girl and successfully scared off her assailant Tuesday afternoon. Joe Bowie, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.
JOE BOWIE, SCARED AWAY WOMAN'S ATTACKER: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Joe, tell us, you were working. You were in your truck waiting for a pick-up when you happened to notice a man by the Coke machine. Why did you notice him?
BOWIE: Well, the reason I noticed him, he was looking very suspicious and kind of fidgety. So that's what really made me notice the guy.
CHUNG: So, then a young woman walks out of a store and what happens?
BOWIE: OK. The young woman walks out of the store, and then in the parking lot towards her car. And as he sees this young lady makes a exit, he kind of -- you know, he gets like a glare in his eyes like that's the woman I want.
So as she's walking to her car, he gets a little, you know, fast walk on him. And as she gets a little closer to her car, he, you know, gets a little faster paced. Then when she gets right to the back of her trunk of her car, he's kind of running up and he grabs her from behind. And...
CHUNG: So what did you do?
BOWIE: Well, at the time, when I saw him walking behind her, I didn't know if he was like a friend or what. So I didn't, you know, react at the time. But when I saw him pick her up the way he did and she started kicking, you know, I got out of the truck and I started running that way. By the time...
CHUNG: How did he pick her up? Excuse me for interrupting you.
BOWIE: He picked her up from -- OK. He picked her up from the back. He grabbed her from the back, like somebody would run and grab from you the back. That's the way he picked her up and grab her.
CHUNG: Did he practically lift her feet up off the ground?
BOWIE: He did. He did. And like I said, that's what really made me know that he was not a friend of hers or whatever because of the way she was kicking and turning in his arms.
CHUNG: So what did you do?
BOWIE: OK. By this time, I'm running over there to try to, you know, rescue her or whatever. And the guy turns because he had to -- you know, he was trying to go to his truck or whatever. And he turns to the right I guess to see if anybody's looking and he sees me coming. So, he kind of throws her to the ground or whatever and he gets in his black pickup truck and, you know, he speeds off.
CHUNG: So were you able to see his car, his license plate?
BOWIE: I was able to see his truck he was in. The license plate was not visible. It looked like it had been tampered with. So, I could not get a number or a letter or anything off of it.
CHUNG: And how is the young woman? Was she OK?
BOWIE: Yes, she was OK. At the time, when I went to her, she was kind of still in a frantic or whatever and startled. She didn't want me to touch her because she didn't know if I was, you know, with this guy or whatever. And, you know, I told her it was OK. I saw what happened and, you know, I was coming over here to rescue her or whatever, you know. So she settled down and everything was OK.
CHUNG: And you called police.
BOWIE: Yes. We walked back in the store and we called police.
CHUNG: Joe, were you able to get a good look at his face and can you describe him?
BOWIE: I did, Connie, get a good look at the guy. He's a white male, about six foot tall, about 175 pounds. You know, a slim build. He had on a welder's hat -- that the little beak that turned back, it was on the back of his head. And so, his hair kind of came out the back, that flipped up a little bit. It was like curly, brownish like.
You know, couldn't really tell if -- he could have been bald, I don't know because the hat was so far down on his head. Facial hair -- you know, looked like he hadn't shaved in a couple of days. But he was dressed like maybe a welder type guy, from the way he was dressed with a long-sleeve blue denim shirt on with blue jeans and brown, you know, work-type boots or Wolverines or whatever you want to call them. And sunglasses hanging from -- you know, to his chest. So, yes, I did get a good look at him.
If he is the guy, I guess you could say I'm the only one that's really -- have really seen -- well, not really seen his face but lived to tell about it.
CHUNG: That's right. There have been three killings that have been linked to the Baton Rouge area.
BOWIE: That's right. That's right. So that's why I say -- and you know, I gave them the sketch of the guy. And, you know, maybe it's the right guy. And hopefully it is, and, you know, they can catch this guy and put all of this to rest.
CHUNG: You know, there was another attempted abduction the very next night on Wednesday night. And the woman who was the intended victim actually provided a description that looked very much like the composite sketch that you provided to the police.
Now, moving on to one other question that I wanted to ask you. Did you have the impression that this man was targeting the young woman who came out of the store?
BOWIE: I did have that impression. What gave me that impression was afterwards, where he was parked, he was parked right in front of her car. So, I assumed evidently he had seen her, you know, going in the store as he was coming in the parking lot or maybe he followed her from somewhere else.
CHUNG: Now, with the Baton Rouge serial killer, someone had seen a white truck near one of the places where the victim was found, one of the three victims was found. The truck apparently is described as a pickup truck, just like the one that you saw was described. Is it possible, some people are saying, that the truck that you saw was painted, because sometimes you can tell when a truck has been painted because it has got that funny sort of sheen.
BOWIE: Right. The truck could have been painted. Like I say, it had been raining that day and, you know, it did have a little mud on it. And, you know, it could have been painted, you know. So I'm not really sure, but it could have.
CHUNG: Earlier today, you underwent hypnosis. Were you able to reveal anything else to the authorities?
BOWIE: I did, but everything, you know, basically the same as what I told them from day one.
CHUNG: Well, Joe, I think a lot of people would say you're a hero. What do you think?
BOWIE: Well, I wouldn't say I'm a hero. I would just say that the Lord put me at the right place at the right time. And, you know, like I say, I saw something going on that wasn't right and I just, you know, took action and, you know, wanted to see this young lady get back home to her family safe and sound and not another, you know, murder or whatever on the policeman's hands because they already have, you know, so many out there right now, unsolved murders. So, you know, I wouldn't say I'm a hero.
CHUNG: I'm sure that she and her parents are just so grateful to you. And we appreciate your being with us tonight.
BOWIE: OK, Connie. I appreciate it. Thank you.
CHUNG: OK.
And coming up, Charlton Heston's dramatic announcement and his latest battle that he'll be fighting.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead, a surgeon leaves his patient in the middle of an operation to make a bank deposit. How will the doctor be held accountable? When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Charlton Heston today revealed that he has symptoms similar to those of Alzheimer's Disease, just like an estimated 4 million other Americans. In a taped statement, the 77-year-old actor said he may be drawing the curtain on his career, a career that includes a best actor Oscar and dozens of films. He said he wanted to explain the changes that may lie ahead while he's still able to do so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HESTON: If you see a little less spring in my step, if your name fails to leap to my lips, you'll know why. And if I tell you a funny story for the second time, please laugh anyway. I'm neither giving up nor giving in. I believe I'm still the fighter that Dr. King and JFK and Ronald Reagan knew. But it's a fight I must someday call a draw. I must reconcile courage and surrender in equal measure, but please feel no sympathy for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Alzheimer's has struck many high-profile people, former president Ronald Reagan, entertainer Perry Como and just this week, it was announced the original "Dear Abby" columnist, Pauline Phillips.
Joining me now from Los Angeles is an actor who knows all too well the ravages of Alzheimer's. He lost his father and grandfather to it. David Hyde Pierce is not only an actor in "Frasier" and the new movie "Full Frontal," but he's a member of the board of the National Alzheimer's Association. David, thank you for being with us. I can't tell you how much we appreciate it.
DAVID HYDE PIERCE, ACTOR: I'm so glad to be here. Thanks, Connie.
CHUNG: Good. We watched Charlton Heston describe his symptoms. I mean, you know them all too well, don't you?
PIERCE: Yes. Yes. I went through with my grandfather, my mom's dad, had Alzheimer's. And he went the full progression of the disease. It progressively dismantles the way your brain works. And so the progression is one of going from seemingly minor memory loss to major memory loss and a gradual loss of the ability to function. And he ultimately died of it.
CHUNG: And Charlton Heston, though, says that he has not been definitively diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Why is it that it can't be diagnosed?
PIERCE: We now are very -- we have a great ability to diagnose the disease. A definitive diagnosis of specific Alzheimer's Disease is only possible after death because there's specific formations in the brain in plaques and tangles that are identified as specifically Alzheimer's.
But now, a diagnosis of probable Alzheimer's is very common now because what we do is rule out other diseases, other possible causes of similar symptoms.
CHUNG: David, what sort of tests will Charlton Heston have to go through? Because they will try to determine if indeed he has -- if he's suffering from all the symptoms. So he's got a host of tests ahead of him, doesn't he?
PIERCE: Well, fortunately, yes. Because fortunately we know so much more now about Alzheimer's than we did back, you know, when my grandfather had it. So there are physical tests, there are brain scans, there are behavioral tests, memory tests, as well as research his own family history. All of which is compiled to form a picture to provide the best and clearest diagnosis and the best way to approach it.
CHUNG: Now, caregivers I've always heard have the hardest, hardest time. And when Charlton Heston talked about his wife and his family, and he said his wife was the queen of his heart, I just about lost it. It was so touching. But you know what happens to that caregiver. I mean, they almost suffer as much, don't they?
PIERCE: Oh, yeah. It's -- I use the expression "collateral damage" in Alzheimer's disease. There's extraordinary collateral damage in the family. The family has to pull together and try to help. But the emotional devastation of having someone you love disappear in front of your eyes even though they're physically still there, it's very hard to sort of calculate how destructive that is.
And yet I can also tell you there are wonderful, uplifting stories of people who have just sprung to the challenge. And even, you know, you watch Mr. Heston in his tape, and as sad as it is, you can't help but be inspired because he's responding with such courage and such a sense of humor. And that reflects the best of how a family can deal with this disease.
CHUNG: So can you tell us, since you've watched this progression, what will happen to Charlton Heston over a period of time, or do people even really know? Do doctors know?
PIERCE: There's a great expression, which is, if you've seen one Alzheimer's patient, you've seen one Alzheimer's patient. There is a general progression that we can predict. We do know that it is a fatal illness and we don't have a cure for it. Some people -- there's a normal timeframe of about eight years, but some live as long as 20 years with the disease.
One thing we know without predicting what will happen with Mr. Heston, but I think it's an important fact, is that they suspect that the disease begins as much as 20 years before you see the first symptom. And that's pretty scary for all of us. One in 10 people 65 or older will get the disease. So that means people in their 40s like myself, like many of us in my generation, if it's going to happen, it's already started. CHUNG: And is it genetic, and do you have a fear of getting it because your father did have symptoms as well?
PIERCE: I think about it a lot. There are genetic components, which I don't think the research is very definitive yet, so we can't really use it to predict whether someone will get it or not. There's a rare form of Alzheimer's disease called early onset, which happens very young, in your sometimes 30s or 40s or 50s, which has a very strong genetic component. We don't know. But certainly it's one of the indicators. If you have it in your family, then there's reason to be concerned.
CHUNG: And we know you're not a doctor and we know you don't play one on TV, but you are so learned about the subject in part because you have testified before Congress many, many times. Four years in a row, I think. And you have gone before these congressional committees to ask for more funding, and you have been successful. You've made a difference, right?
PIERCE: Well, yeah. I mean, I won't take the credit for it. I think the Alzheimer's Association is an extraordinarily powerful advocate. And I think sadly, is that Alzheimer's disease itself is the greatest advocate, because over the years that I've been working with the association, more and more people that I meet say, oh, I have a relative, I have a parent, I have a grandparent, I have a friend, I know someone. And of course, everyone now through President Reagan and now Charlton Heston, there is one in the country who doesn't know someone with this disease. And we all are becoming very aware, painfully aware of how terrible it is, and how much we have to fight to stamp it out.
CHUNG: And, in fact, that association we have, a friend, Laurie Burrows Grad and Jimmy Burrows who are working with you in trying to spread the word.
Now, tell me, there is no cure, correct?
PIERCE: No.
CHUNG: But is there anything that doctors can do to help the patient along?
PIERCE: Yes. There are about four medications now that the FDA has approved for treating the symptoms of Alzheimer's. And they're varyingly successful, as with any of the treatments for Alzheimer's. Things are most successful if you catch the disease early on. That's why it's so great that Mr. Heston has been diagnosed or probably diagnosed and is making this announcement. He's in a position, because clearly his mind is still very active at present -- he and his family will be able to make decisions with their doctor about how to approach the treatment of the disease, how to make plans for the future and what will inevitably happen.
That's why the association strongly recommends that people who have questions about this contact the Alzheimer's Association, and if you think that you may possibly have Alzheimer's, get a checkup, get -- talk to your doctor, because you may be able to rule out Alzheimer's disease. That's the other thing. There are other things, medications you may be taking, depression, many things that mirror the symptoms of Alzheimer's.
CHUNG: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. And I thank you so much. It's so good to see you. Love your work, and thank you.
PIERCE: Thanks, Connie. Thanks.
CHUNG: I should mention, actually, the reason why I mentioned the Burrows family is because Abe Burrows, the wonderful man who put together "Guys & Dolls" and many more Broadway programs -- shows, had Alzheimer's.
When we come back, we'll take a look at a story of a doctor who walked out during an operation. But first, a quick look at some of the final thoughts that Heston offered in his statement today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HESTON: Finally, I'm confident about the future of America. I believe in you. I know that the future of our country, our culture and our children is in good hands. I know you will continue to meet adversity with strength and resilience, as our ancestors did, and come through with flying colors, the ones on Old Glory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, dot-comedy, dogs in the office, colleagues with purple hair -- just another day at the office. So says self- styled slacker Mike Daisey, on life in the Amazon.com jungle. CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT is coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This is just one of those stories that's going to knock your jaw right to the floor. It's going to make you wonder what could he have possibly been thinking? Listen to this. It was July 10, 2002 in the operating room at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Orthopedic surgeon Dr. David Arndt was performing spinal fusion surgery on a man. Six hours into the operation, the surgery wasn't over, but for Dr. Arndt, it was time to go. Saying he needed to step out, he went to his bank a mile away, to cash a check just before closing. Back at the hospital, the patient and the surgical team remained, and waited for 35 minutes, until Dr. Arndt returned to complete the final three hours of surgery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY ACHIN SULLIVAN, EXEC. DIR., BOARD OF REG. IN MED.: It's inexplicable and it's inexcusable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Doctor Arndt's medical career could be in serious trouble. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULLIVAN: In all my years of patient advocacy work, I have never heard of anything quite like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: The Massachusetts Board of Registration and Medicine suspended his license on Wednesday. He's appealing the suspension.
Dr. Arndt and his attorney declined to appear on our program. In a statement, his attorney said, quote, "Dr. David Arndt is a competent and skilled orthopedic surgeon. He regrets his actions on July 10 and apologizes to his patient."
The state board's executive director, Nancy Achin Sullivan, joins us now from Watertown, Massachusetts. Thank you, Nancy, for being with us. We appreciate is.
SULLIVAN: A pleasure. Thank you.
CHUNG: When you first heard of what Dr. Arndt reportedly did, what did you think?
SULLIVAN: Like anyone, I was shocked. It seemed so inexplicable, is the only word I can come up with.
And did you say to yourself immediately that this man needs to be suspended, and we're going to investigate?
Well, of course we immediately investigated. It was a very serious allegation. And the staff working with Mount Auburn Hospital, where the incident took place, brought it before the board very quickly. And the board members, upon reviewing the evidence before them, decided that, based on that information, that his continued practice was not in the best interests of the people of Massachusetts.
CHUNG: Has anything like this happened before, to your knowledge?
SULLIVAN: I certainly have never seen it in my time, either with the board or as a health care advocate and patient rights advocate. It is certainly the most unusual case that I have come across.
CHUNG: Do you know if he informed the people in the operating room that he was going to leave and where he was going?
SULLIVAN: Well, we certainly don't have any evidence to indicate that people understood that he was leaving the operating room and the hospital. It is common for someone, in a long procedure, to step out, and I think that's pretty much the language that he used.
That often means, I'm going to go re-review radiological film that's up front or I'm going to, frankly, use the rest room or change my gloves or change my scrubs. And most people think that is a five minute exercise. And after that amount of time, a couple of minutes, the operating room staff did begin to look for him and try to page him.
CHUNG: And obviously weren't able to find him. Has he ever had any disciplinary problems at the hospital before or in his past, that you know of?
SULLIVAN: We had no previous discipline at our board or any knowledge of any from any other state licensing board. There was another -- a nonmedical issue that had come before the board preliminarily and due to the status of that case, I can't comment on what the disposition of it may be, other than to say that he was familiar to the board, but not in anything related to his medical technical skills.
CHUNG: He did have a previous criminal record, though, correct?
SULLIVAN: That's correct. That's the incident to which I alluded.
CHUNG: Yes. Can you explain that incident?
SULLIVAN: Basically he was found guilty of assisting a friend in obtaining a passport by he, Dr. Arndt, offering a false affidavit of support of the passport application and in violation of federal law.
CHUNG: Do you know if this is something the hospital knew about before bringing him on staff?
SULLIVAN: I don't know what the hospital may or may not have known at that time, and whether or not they would have deemed that to be an issue as they were doing their credentialing. I think you should direct that question to the hospital.
CHUNG: If you do find that this was an egregious act and that some sort of action should be taken against him, what conceivably could happen to him?
SULLIVAN: He has been summarily suspended. Currently Dr. Arndt does not have a valid license to practice in Massachusetts. The rest of the process will be, there will -- one, of course, has the right to appeal and his attorney has issued a statement that they do plan to appeal that decision of the board.
And this is an interim step in the interests of public safety by the board. Our next step is the presentation of our side and a full evidentiary hearing before an administrative law magistrate and then based on the findings of fact by that magistrate and recommendations and application of law, an appropriate sanction may or, you know, would be imposed by the board. It could be no discipline, it could be a reprimand, it could be a suspension, anything up to and including revocation of one's license.
CHUNG: What could have happened in the 30 or so minutes that he was gone while he was cashing his check at the bank?
SULLIVAN: Well, the patient was under anesthesia, had an open incision, and any number of things can happen. There can be a complication, there can be a bleed, there can be a reaction to anesthesia. There can be any number of problems that can develop, which is why you need immediate surgical attention and someone who is focused on the patient at the time.
CHUNG: How is the patient?
SULLIVAN: The patient, as far as we know, is doing fine and wishes to remain with some privacy.
CHUNG: Thank you so much. Nancy Achin Sullivan. We appreciate your being with us, and we'll follow up with you to find out what happened.
SULLIVAN: Thank you.
CHUNG: Coming right up, you probably have gone to amazon.com at some point, but you'll never see it the way we're going to show it to you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Remember the '90s? Dress down Tuesdays, stock options and the vending machines, ergonomic hammocks in the employee lounge? No company epitomized it more than amazon.com.
But now one escapee from the dot-com world is telling tales. After Mike Daisey's nondisclosure agreement expired, he published a book and launched a one-man show, both titled "21 Dog Years: Doing Time at Amazon.com."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE DAISEY, AUTHOR, "21 DOG YEARS": Oh, you'd like to speak to my manager? Hold for my manager, please.
Who wants to be my manager?
Me, me, me, me, me.
Hello, this is Mr. Daisey's manager. I'm shocked -- shocked to discover that he has not been providing you with customer-centric service.
You never reach management. That is the point of customer service. Customer service exists to protect management from people like you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: He's funny, isn't he? Don't you think?
DAISEY: He's pretty good, that guy. He's not bad.
CHUNG: Ladies and gentlemen, Mike Daisey. Thank you so much for joining us.
DAISEY: Hey, thanks for having me.
CHUNG: All right. For anybody who has been in a cave, right, explain, what is Amazon.com? What was it, or what is it?
DAISEY: Amazon.com is a Web site that collates user preferences to create an unbridled exciting experience for everyone that visits it. Or alternatively, it's a store like a department store that just happens to be on the Internet.
CHUNG: Got it. And how long did you work there?
DAISEY: Oh, I worked there for 19 months, which translates into 21 dog years, according to this really exacting scale we used while we were there.
CHUNG: What kind of scale? I mean, I don't understand how?
DAISEY: Well, the ASPCA had this chart that showed exactly how dogs actually age, because we were very obsessed with the idea of Internet time. The idea -- we were working so hard that time was passing faster for us. The thing is that I don't think we were actually working that hard, because we spent more time obsessed with the fact that we were working so hard. So we would check this chart and see exactly how many years we'd worked out. And people would run scripts on their computers to measure it. And so 19 months equals 21 dog years.
CHUNG: Of course. I understand completely now. Was this a job that was different from previous jobs you've had? Where are you from?
DAISEY: I'm from Maine.
CHUNG: Oh.
DAISEY: I grew up in northern Maine.
CHUNG: Really? My husband's father's family was from there.
DAISEY: OK. OK. Yeah. Probably know him. Everyone in Maine knows each other. The one state where you go there and you say, do you know Bill? People go, oh, yeah, here's Bill, and he comes out from the back.
CHUNG: All right. So do you think the Daiseys know the Poviches?
DAISEY: They probably did. They probably did. I'll check with my dad.
CHUNG: All right. So how did you make your way south?
DAISEY: Well, I went to school in Maine, a small micro Ivy that I won't name, because I don't want to indict them. Because I got myself a degree in aesthetics.
CHUNG: You did. Is that unusual, isn't it? DAISEY: Yes. I'm afraid so. I also got a minor in medieval studies.
CHUNG: Oh, good.
DAISEY: I was really striving to be as useless as possible. I wanted to be really educated and not able to do anything.
CHUNG: So, where did that take you?
DAISEY: Well, that took me to Seattle, because that's where everyone went with too much education. They didn't know where to go; that's where we collected.
CHUNG: Oh, Microsoft.
DAISEY: Yes, Microsoft.
CHUNG: Yes.
DAISEY: And so I landed myself in Seattle and started temping all over town, and doing theater in unheated garages at night. And I was doing these shows about my life, and they were getting a lot of acclaim among the 20 and 25 people who come to the garage.
But I didn't have any health insurance. And this was a real problem. I wanted to -- I had some dental work to do. My mother kept sending me articles about the horrible things that happen to people without health insurance. And so it really -- that goaded me on, until eventually I saw a listing in the paper that said, "great job, quirky people, progressive," and it said that it would have flexible hours.
CHUNG: Oh, what did that mean?
DAISEY: That meant all the hours. I just didn't realize it at the time. It was Amazon.com. I had no idea who they were. I applied and I walked right in.
CHUNG: And little did you know that it would provide you with such fodder for an off-Broadway program -- show.
DAISEY: Yeah. I had no idea. I mean, at the time I really -- I didn't want to do any more theater. I didn't want to do any more art. What I really wanted was to become a normal person. And so, Amazon seemed perfect because it was actually so exciting to be part of it at that time that I thought, I'll get rich, I'll change the world, and I'll never have to do another show in an unheated garage again.
CHUNG: There you go. And what happened?
DAISEY: I didn't get rich, but I didn't perform in an unheated garage again. So it's a little A, little B.
CHUNG: Did anybody else get rich? DAISEY: A few people. You know, not that many. The thing about the dot-com era is people always -- a lot of the news articles sort of made it sound like there were millions and millions of 22-year-olds driving Porsches laughing maniacally in the streets. But really, almost no one got rich, because what happened is you get in, and you get your stock, and even it was worth a lot, you felt so disloyal if you sold any of it, because you know, you know it's just going to get bigger later. It's just going to keep getting bigger, so you can't sell any of it. And so you hold on to it to show your faith in the company, and people held on to it right over the cliff.
CHUNG: Yeah. Did you?
DAISEY: No, I left. I left right before the crash.
CHUNG: Did you ever meet the CEO?
DAISEY: I have on a number of occasions. When I was in customer service, he always walks through kind of like a saint walks through the space, sort of touching different people, and he laughs sort of maniacally. I don't know if you've met him, but he has this kind of crazy laugh. And he laughs, he touches.
And then when I got into business development, I saw him all the time, because then I was up in the high holy area of corporate. And so I'd see him every couple of weeks, and he'd be in the cafeteria. And then after things started getting bad for me and I had a lot of pent-up aggression, I spilled a cup of coffee on him.
CHUNG: Oh, no.
DAISEY: Yeah. We were in line at -- they had little espresso stands, because it's Seattle and working at Amazon, a little espresso stand. And so, I got my cup -- and I still don't know if I did it on purpose or what -- but I just turned and I just threw it right onto his leg and he had coffee -- and it's really hot. And then I tried to kind of clean his leg. And then I went, no, that's too close, too intimate. I'm sorry. And it actually throughout my time at Amazon, I was always sending him these obsessive letters that were sort of...
CHUNG: Oh, that's not good.
DAISEY: No.
CHUNG: You know, where you write up the edge?
DAISEY: Yes, yes. And they were sort of half love letters and half sort of labor screeds. And so I wrote to him about that. I was like, I'm sorry, I spilled the coffee. I don't know why I did it. Maybe because I'm so obsessed with you. And because he never wrote back, I never got letters back from him in the e-mail, that goaded me onward. And those form a big part of the show and the book, this sort of psychological map of what was going on with me as I wrote these obsessive letters.
CHUNG: Have you gone to see anybody about writing obsessive letters?
DAISEY: No, but you know, strangely, what I did do was that by leaving Amazon and getting out of that environment, the urge to write obsessive letters to people has vanished. I feel much better. I haven't stalked anybody in almost a year. I'm feeling a lot better.
CHUNG: I'm so glad. I'm glad you're doing better.
DAISEY: I'm sure you are, because you're worried tomorrow you're going to come in and your e-mail will be fulled up, like Mike Daisey. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). You're OK.
CHUNG: Exactly. Oh, but if the Daiseys knew the Poviches, then it's fine.
DAISEY: Well, then it's just a family thing. It's OK.
CHUNG: Exactly. Mike, thank you so much. I want to come see your show, off-Broadway, right?
DAISEY: Yes, absolutely.
CHUNG: But I'm not going to read your book, OK?
DAISEY: Oh, that's all right.
CHUNG: We'll be right back. But first, a look at another comedian with a very different style in tonight's "Off the Radar."
ANNOUNCER: For a moment in the late '80s, Andrew "Dice" Clay was the biggest comic of them all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW "DICE" CLAY, COMEDIAN: How come there's no parking for midgets? Have you ever noticed that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But it wasn't keen observation or humor that drove him into the stratosphere of comedy. It was nursery rhymes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAY: Poor Ms. Muffet sat on a tuffet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Rhymes that started off innocently and ended up about as raunchy as it gets. The hard-core language sparked controversy, but it was the way he hammered women, minorities, gays and other people who weren't Andrew "Dice" Clay that really ticked people off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAY: I'll be hosting "Saturday Night Live" this Saturday. I don't know who else will be working, but...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The people who weren't there were Sinead O'Connor and cast member Nora Dunn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORA DUNN, FORMER SNL CAST MEMBER: He has the right to do what he wants to do, and I think that I have a right and responsibility to stand up against it. I think his stuff is harmful. I think it's debasing to human beings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: By the mid-'90s, it seemed TV audiences agreed. Even when Clay, born Andrew Clay Silverstein, toned down his act for a CBS sitcom, viewers stayed away in droves. So whatever happened to the raunchy comic known as the Diceman? The answer when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: What happened to Andrew "Dice" Clay after he toned down his act for a failed sitcom? He quickly claimed that his conversion had been manufactured by the network, and he went back to his old raunchy act, but with a lot less attack comedy. These days he sticks mostly to Vegas, where by one estimate he's the highest paid comedian in town.
CHUNG: Thanks for joining us. I'm Connie Chung. Monday, the couple that wants to have a baby through human cloning. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next with one of the boys who was tied in a California kidnapping.
Thank you for joining us. Have a great weekend, and bye, Brad, we're going to miss you. Good night. There he is.
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